a: demonstrate that we are all racists b: demonstrate that anyone who talks about racism is a hypocrite.
Neither are true.
All this crap about "Some Arabs are incredibly rich, therefore all Arabs are priviledged" and "anyone who dresses as a national / regional sterotype is a racist" - can you just have that infant school level debate somewhere else and stop sidetracking the issue here.
To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.
One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).
I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.
I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.
To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.
One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).
I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.
I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.
If you think the joke is about the culture of the local people, you have completely missed the point. The joke is that camel riding is something that people do on holiday in Dubai.
To argue that today's fancy dress parade is racist is not only ridiculous but risks undermining the anti-racist cause. Such outlandish claims make people sceptical even when genuine claims of racism are made.
To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.
One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).
I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.
I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.
If you think the joke is about the culture of the local people, you have completely missed the point. The joke is that camel riding is something that people do on holiday in Dubai.
To argue that today's fancy dress parade is racist is not only ridiculous but risks undermining the anti-racist cause. Such outlandish claims make people sceptical even when genuine claims of racism are made.
I genuinely did not know that, nor did I realize that people wear the dishdasha (sp?). I apologize, I was wrong on this.
To be fair, I understood your point, but it was misguided and, as @Stig said, frivolous claims of racism only hurt the anti-racism cause. But at the end of the day @SDAddick - it takes a brave and noble person to stand up and admit to being wrong. Kudos for that.
I didn't like the protests yesterday. Sorry, but I thought it was trivial, and to be honest didn't take anyone else on board. The idea may have been okay in debate, but for me, that just looked silly.
To be fair, I understood your point, but it was misguided and, as @Stig said, frivolous claims of racism only hurt the anti-racism cause. But at the end of the day @SDAddick - it takes a brave and noble person to stand up and admit to being wrong. Kudos for that.
Thank you, that means a lot. I have no concept as to what a holiday in Dubai consists of, and interpreted things completely incorrectly. In future I will try to ask questions before making blanket statements.
To clarify something I said earlier, my issue was with the re-appropriation or a caricature of a culture, and that is often demeaning to said culture. When I mentioned privilege, it is not one that is measured in wealth, but one measured within their role within the society in which they're being lampooned, in this case British society. I think we can all agree that this is a much lower standing than one simply measured in wealth.
One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).
I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.
I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.
If you think the joke is about the culture of the local people, you have completely missed the point. The joke is that camel riding is something that people do on holiday in Dubai.
To argue that today's fancy dress parade is racist is not only ridiculous but risks undermining the anti-racist cause. Such outlandish claims make people sceptical even when genuine claims of racism are made.
I genuinely did not know that, nor did I realize that people wear the dishdasha (sp?). I apologize, I was wrong on this.
Fair play SDAddick. I admire your spirit of being anti-racist and for holding your hand up.
Whilst we're bathing in the warm waters of conciliation, I would say sorry if the tone of my post was a little strong. Looking back, I reckon I could have made the same point with half the adjectives. Apologies.
Not a fan of yesterday, we need hard hitting actions not to trivialise what is a dire situation.
I think that misses the point that one of the things a self-important incompetent like Miere (or a self-declared ‘visionary’ like Duchatelet) would probably find most difficult to deal with is ridicule….
The point wasn't about Arabs but the CEO - people shouldn't be so precious. Don't look for racism when it isn't there. Fine for me the protests were a bit subdued, as long as Brighton is the mother of all protests! All it seems to show is that the more we protest during a game, the better chance the team has of winning! Which should make any future comments from the idiots in charge even more ridiculous if they try to blame fans for their issues.
Not a fan of yesterday, we need hard hitting actions not to trivialise what is a dire situation.
I think that misses the point that one of the things a self-important incompetent like Miere (or a self-declared ‘visionary’ like Duchatelet) would probably find most difficult to deal with is ridicule….
Agree with that, i think she has got off very lightly so far. Gender should be irrelevant. Replace 'Roland out' with 'Miere out' and take the smirk off of her face.
A few blokes decided to dress up as camels. A bit of fun for them, maybe, but I didn't even see them, and as far as I'm concerned there was no protest at all, which is disappointing to say the least.
A few blokes decided to dress up as camels. A bit of fun for them, maybe, but I didn't even see them, and as far as I'm concerned there was no protest at all, which is disappointing to say the least.
despite leading a sheltered life, some of them camels certainly weren't blokes.
Dedicating the entire game to chanting against the regime as we are now down? Mass walk out? Protest behind the west stand? All the protesters infiltrating the west stand for the Brighton match?
Maybe it is worth saying that the range of the protests have been impressive some more successful than others. Yesterday was one event in many and it was fine. It provided another photo opportunity and became memorable because of it.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
So apart from a few people having a bit of a jolly in fancy dress did anything actually happen yesterday? There I was thinking we were all taking the fight against the regime seriously.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
Trouble is everyone seems reliant on CARD for their protests. By the nature of its membership CARD will only ever be moderate in its ideas for match days, so the only way for hard hitting in ground protest is for others to follow their anger and act. Clearly there is not enough anger there as only a few do outside the CARD initiatives (and before it is said I have but looked like a lone wolf)
People have donated £20k+ to CARD. It's not unreasonable to expect them to lead and act.
Do both. Donate and support CARD, and act directly old style in the ground.
Comments
a: demonstrate that we are all racists
b: demonstrate that anyone who talks about racism is a hypocrite.
Neither are true.
All this crap about "Some Arabs are incredibly rich, therefore all Arabs are priviledged" and "anyone who dresses as a national / regional sterotype is a racist" - can you just have that infant school level debate somewhere else and stop sidetracking the issue here.
Yes. I'm calling you both out.
One of the more extreme examples of this, at least within the US, is people dressing up in black face. This is harking back to both a racist form of entertainment, and also a time when black people were subjective to white people--a comparison I think we could make with former colonies in the middle east (a people being subjugated, not the representative act itself).
I DO NOT equate the dressing up today to black face, and I don't believe it was intended to be offensive (to anyone bar the regime, and I don't think they care). I was stating a feeling I had upon seeing the pictures.
I'm sorry so many posts on here ended up being about this, hopefully we can all agree that what constitutes satire and what constitutes racism is not something that should be discussed on the CARD protest thread, and certainly not something we'll solve on an internet message board. I'd like to withdraw my comments from earlier, and instead point to what I've written above here and say "this is what I was thinking." It's also probably worth noting that despite having lived in England, and SE7 in particular, and despite having many friends from and in the UK, I am from a different culture, and it's something I sometimes forget but should add in this situation as there are different cultural meanings and responses to such things. If there is a burning desire to do so we can pick this up on another thread, otherwise, thank you for reading and I'll shut up and get off my soapbox now.
Just take a look at this:
https://www.getyourguide.co.uk/dubai-l173/heritage-camel-safari-t47211/
and this:
https://www.platinum-heritage.com/heritage-collection-desertsafaridubai/heritage-camel-safari
and this:
http://www.viator.com/tours/Dubai/Luxury-Desert-Experience-Camel-Safari-with-Dinner-and-Emirati-Activities-with-Transport-from-Dubai/d828-6183CAMELSAFARI
To argue that today's fancy dress parade is racist is not only ridiculous but risks undermining the anti-racist cause. Such outlandish claims make people sceptical even when genuine claims of racism are made.
But at the end of the day @SDAddick - it takes a brave and noble person to stand up and admit to being wrong. Kudos for that.
Whilst we're bathing in the warm waters of conciliation, I would say sorry if the tone of my post was a little strong. Looking back, I reckon I could have made the same point with half the adjectives. Apologies.
Gender should be irrelevant. Replace 'Roland out' with 'Miere out' and take the smirk off of her face.
Mass walk out?
Protest behind the west stand?
All the protesters infiltrating the west stand for the Brighton match?