5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
@SDAddick I don't think size has anything to do with gambling on flawed yet talented players. Leeds and Manchester United gambled on Eric Cantona despite his issues, indeed Manchester United stuck with him after he did something that to quote my dear departed much loved Grandmother "I've always wanted to do".
Real Madrid took in Antonio Cassano. In fact, Cassano has been taken on by many big and medium large clubs.
Anelka and Ballotelli have played for a whose who of top clubs.
True, but when they brought in Cassano, Madrid also had Raul, Guti, Ronaldo, and a host of other attacking players which meant that Cassano was not the only Galactico. Ballotelli had Tevez, Dzeko, and then Aguero at City. Anelka was a talisman at City and Bolton, but at Arsenal he had various other very good forwards with him, same with his time at Madrid, and when he joined Chelsea they had Drogba, and various wide attackers for the 4-3-3.
It's early and I can't remember exactly who was up front for United in the mid-90s (Yorke, Sherringham?), but hopefully you get my point. When these clubs signed raw, flawed players they had other experienced players around them to help ease them into the team.
Dion Dublin and Brian McClair I think?
Leeds had... Brian Deane.
With Cassano, after Madrid he went on to play for Sampdoria, Milan, Inter, and Parma, despite being known as a complete nightmare to manage. I don't know what to make of Cassano... wasted talent? But then playing for all those huge teams and having championships / cups on his CV, well it's not been a bad career really!
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages,
@SDAddick I don't think size has anything to do with gambling on flawed yet talented players. Leeds and Manchester United gambled on Eric Cantona despite his issues, indeed Manchester United stuck with him after he did something that to quote my dear departed much loved Grandmother "I've always wanted to do".
Real Madrid took in Antonio Cassano. In fact, Cassano has been taken on by many big and medium large clubs.
Anelka and Ballotelli have played for a whose who of top clubs.
True, but when they brought in Cassano, Madrid also had Raul, Guti, Ronaldo, and a host of other attacking players which meant that Cassano was not the only Galactico. Ballotelli had Tevez, Dzeko, and then Aguero at City. Anelka was a talisman at City and Bolton, but at Arsenal he had various other very good forwards with him, same with his time at Madrid, and when he joined Chelsea they had Drogba, and various wide attackers for the 4-3-3.
It's early and I can't remember exactly who was up front for United in the mid-90s (Yorke, Sherringham?), but hopefully you get my point. When these clubs signed raw, flawed players they had other experienced players around them to help ease them into the team.
Dion Dublin and Brian McClair I think?
Leeds had... Brian Deane.
With Cassano, after Madrid he went on to play for Sampdoria, Milan, Inter, and Parma, despite being known as a complete nightmare to manage. I don't know what to make of Cassano... wasted talent? But then playing for all those huge teams and having championships / cups on his CV, well it's not been a bad career really!
@SDAddick I don't think size has anything to do with gambling on flawed yet talented players. Leeds and Manchester United gambled on Eric Cantona despite his issues, indeed Manchester United stuck with him after he did something that to quote my dear departed much loved Grandmother "I've always wanted to do".
Real Madrid took in Antonio Cassano. In fact, Cassano has been taken on by many big and medium large clubs.
Anelka and Ballotelli have played for a whose who of top clubs.
True, but when they brought in Cassano, Madrid also had Raul, Guti, Ronaldo, and a host of other attacking players which meant that Cassano was not the only Galactico. Ballotelli had Tevez, Dzeko, and then Aguero at City. Anelka was a talisman at City and Bolton, but at Arsenal he had various other very good forwards with him, same with his time at Madrid, and when he joined Chelsea they had Drogba, and various wide attackers for the 4-3-3.
It's early and I can't remember exactly who was up front for United in the mid-90s (Yorke, Sherringham?), but hopefully you get my point. When these clubs signed raw, flawed players they had other experienced players around them to help ease them into the team.
Dion Dublin and Brian McClair I think?
Leeds had... Brian Deane.
With Cassano, after Madrid he went on to play for Sampdoria, Milan, Inter, and Parma, despite being known as a complete nightmare to manage. I don't know what to make of Cassano... wasted talent? But then playing for all those huge teams and having championships / cups on his CV, well it's not been a bad career really!
There is a rumor that when he was at Madrid, Cassano was living in a hotel and had the concierge bring him a different woman every night, and a dozen donuts in the morning. He seemed to fall out with every coach and/or owner he played under. I think he was just born 20 years too late. He would have been excellent in the days when physical fitness didn't matter as much as it does now. Certainly talent wasted, but given what he won and the amount he's probably earned, not a terrible way to waste talent.
...unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves...
If by your logic we have to pay to engage with Duchatelet, we'll have to pay to compromise. Except that we won't have the £25m it would take to meet him half way, so the price we'll pay is that he'll dismantle the club bit by bit. I'm not having that. I wan't him out. No compromise, just go!
Finding a buyer and agreeing the terms of sale are his problem, not ours. Our job is to demonstrate loudly and clearly that getting out of Dodge is by far and away the best decision for him. It's up to him how he does it though.
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership
3. The club sometimes make good signings-
...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK
and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid?
4. some accept the new larger parachute payments are a problem - although to be fair most try and gloss over this 'elephant in the room'
5. roger johnson a 'solid championship player' was a poor signing- I AGREE
6. the TOXIC atmosphere at the club is probably not helping us sign promising youngsters, and definitely not POSITIVE for player morale. ( some of you claimed it has no impact but no-one has said it is having a positive impact)
7. DONT SELL ON YOUNG TALENT- a core aim of the campaign is acknowledged as being unrealistic in this day and age. and most agree that to attract the best we need to play them. Even more so now after Deli Alli.
Yes we can keep some young talent like the excellent JC but the truth is that's because he probably isn't quite good enough for the next step up. Remember for every Gomez and Lookman there will be one Solly (championship player only) and Cousins- who we can hold on to.
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
PS i am very English, London born and i repeat do not know anyone in the management team at the club. so please some of you stop the unfair abuse.
Your post is certainly a step up from some of the other pro regime posts over the weekend. I wonder if the hand of Philip is in here.
I could almost interpret your post as the regime putting forward a basis for negotiation.
Before I respond in any detail I want to say that I don't trust the regime one little bit, either on what they say they will do or have done (eg calling massive debt 'quasi equity' ), or in their sincerity in wanting us fans to actually attend and feel positive about our club. I also don't trust them because of what they've already done in destroying our club for the last two years.
There is for me no reason not to continue opposing this destructive regime, and if there is going to be a reason to reconcile it would have to be a seminal change, not a vague line about face painting flag waving family friendliness (which we have always been anyway), nor a cheap north lower seating area.
This regime can't seriously think that by smiling, saying 'tah dah family friendly and cheap' they have healed the chasm like rift with good decent loyal supporters that they have created. Created it seems to me quite deliberately, and quite cynically.
So, to negotiate. Sticking with Riga, or any manager, depends on their degree of autonomy. At the moment Riga is as constrained as Peeters, Luzon and Fraeye were. The entire realistic English football world say this management approach is doomed. No manager autonomy, and adequate support, no deal.
Bringing in players experienced in this league depends on scouting and planning. We got rid of a scout, and the 'local' player void was filled by agents pressing Vaz Te, Williams, Rojo and Poyet on us. It was panic signings that made agents salivate. So approaching signings as we have been doing? No deal.
Changing CEO I agree with but only if they have autonomy and responsibility. If your point means basically the departure of Katrien then that would be half a deal done.
Roland has loaded the club with debt to indulge his crazy whims. We need to acknowledge that first and foremost. I refer you to my point about quasi equity above.
We don't want what you describe. We want to win the Premier League like Leicester, or at least try.
Interesting you use the new regime buzz word 'partners' at the end. I would much prefer new owners.
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership
3. The club sometimes make good signings-
...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK
and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid?
4. some accept the new larger parachute payments are a problem - although to be fair most try and gloss over this 'elephant in the room'
5. roger johnson a 'solid championship player' was a poor signing- I AGREE
6. the TOXIC atmosphere at the club is probably not helping us sign promising youngsters, and definitely not POSITIVE for player morale. ( some of you claimed it has no impact but no-one has said it is having a positive impact)
7. DONT SELL ON YOUNG TALENT- a core aim of the campaign is acknowledged as being unrealistic in this day and age. and most agree that to attract the best we need to play them. Even more so now after Deli Alli.
Yes we can keep some young talent like the excellent JC but the truth is that's because he probably isn't quite good enough for the next step up. Remember for every Gomez and Lookman there will be one Solly (championship player only) and Cousins- who we can hold on to.
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
PS i am very English, London born and i repeat do not know anyone in the management team at the club. so please some of you stop the unfair abuse.
Interesting you use the new regime buzz word 'partners' at the end. I would much prefer new owners.
Hey, they could always partner with Data Techniques? ;-)
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership Most also agree that Igor Vetokele has potential, but his injuries have been made worse by the regime's determination to play him when unfit. Our experience of Yann Kermogant is that he is better, partly because he did not spend so much time out injured. Igor Vetokele may be better, technically, and may, at some time in the future, be able to play for a full season, but there is no evidence to date that he would make it in the Premiership.
3. The club sometimes make good signings- ...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid? The key word, though, is sometimes; a lot of what has been brought in has been dross. For a small to medium sized (and well run) club the need is to make decent or good signings on the majority of occasions (not necessarily the most gifted or talented players, but players that will add stability to the team and improve its play). I might just suggest that this was something at which Chris Powell excelled.
4. some accept the new larger parachute payments are a problem - although to be fair most try and gloss over this 'elephant in the room' No-one is glossing over it, but it is merely a question of scale. With every Premiership TV contract, the difference between the haves and have nots has grown. But, while the parachute payments are a huge advantage, they do not guarantee success for teams coming out of the PL. There are often more pressing issues, within their own teams, etc. that have a greater impact on how they will do. The evidence shows that well-drilled and united groups of players can achieve the better results (as Leicester have been demonstrating so far this season).
5. roger johnson a 'solid championship player' was a poor shite signing- I AGREEFixed.
6. the TOXIC atmosphere at the club is probably not helping us sign promising youngsters, and definitely not POSITIVE for player morale. ( some of you claimed it has no impact but no-one has said it is having a positive impact) What do you mean by toxic atmosphere? If you mean the protests, I would argue that they do not create a toxic atmosphere, and the evidence of the results, and comments mentioned elsewhere, is that the passionate protests have improved matters on the pitch. If you mean some of our supporters barracking our own players, I agree, but there have been those who have been doing that for as long as I can remember. The difference today is that young players, like Morgan Fox, are thrown in to such a situation and the regime does nothing to protect them (because having a squad of sufficient depth would allow players rotate out of the team when their form dips).
What is much more likely to deter youngsters coming to the club is the inexorable slide into footballing irrelevance that the regime promises us, unless arrested by Duchatelet leaving. There is also the clear evidence of players being required to play when unfit and of lengthy and unexplained absence due to injury (some may call many of our players donkeys, but at least ill-treated donkeys would have a reasonable expectation of being rescued and brought to a sanctuary).
7. DONT SELL ON YOUNG TALENT- a core aim of the campaign is acknowledged as being unrealistic in this day and age. and most agree that to attract the best we need to play them. Even more so now after Deli Alli. No-one has suggested that a core aim of the campaign is not to sell on talent, because we have always done that. What many instinctively react against is the surrender, by the regime, of any kind of ambition for the club. The vision espoused by our Shareholder and CEO relegates the club, not just to the old Third Division, but also, to the status of a footballing puppy farm, without the semblance of even the most basic duty of care (where young talent is rushed into the first team, before it is ready, the hopes that they will be sold on to a big club). Frankly speaking, if a puppy farm is not just inhumane but dangerous for dogs, I cannot see any reason why we should welcome one at our club.
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves Well, I can see an alternative, where Duchatelet goes and is replaced by someone at least prepared to run Charlton Athletic Football Club as a football club, and not a mad (social) scientist "visionary".
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of) Do we all know that? If so, does that mean that another manager might not have achieved more than the Riga masterclass against MK Dons. Frankly, I have no reason to assume that, given similar resources to Peeters, Luzon and Riga, SCP would not have been able to select better players, had a more balanced team and avoided the current relegation crisis.
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports. - You say VG players, and I immediately had this image of RD at the corner shop looking for players. The evidence suggests that Duchatelet is more likely to go down the food bank. There is no evidence to suggest that Duchatelet has any desire to change his experiment.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans - Would this involve RD admitting he was wrong? I'm not entirely certain that humility and self awareness are high on his personality traits.
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start Under this regime, however, we seem to have to start again every six months. Why should we endure Groundhog Day to amuse RD? What real signs of progress have you seen in the team since he took over?
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money. Except that that's not what the regime have indicated that they want. They want the nicest club in London (i.e. the least trouble); a "unique" matchday experience (that's not at all unique) watching future Prem players; acceptance that "The Shareholder's" decisions and ideas are the only ones that count (because of his money); the Football League to reintroduce a FFP that suits the regime; and for everyone to love poor RD because it doesn't seem (in either football or politics) that the Belgians do.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.But we won't, because it's not the vision.
looks like some of you on bent on mutually assured destruction if you ask me.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive.
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic.
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE!
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things.
all agree that we need
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad) -Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes -A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place -More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club -Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
1. Yet his approach to running this business shows him to be a buffoon. 2. The spivs did not charge the club interest and the former directors accepted an arrangement where they do not receive any on the limited money they didn't write off altogether. 3. Nobody suggests that is true of everyone who has a different view, yet it is transparently obvious that some posters are club stooges, as was the case under the spivs. 4. If RD had a conversation with Varney instead of publishing the various garbage statements he's made on the subject to justify Meire's pathetic procrastination he'd find out what's on the table, wouldn't he? You certainly don't know. Neither do I, but I suggest the people involved realise that any offer has to benefit both sides. 5. The club will never be a successful Championship club under RD because he believes he can beat the market, while in practice his approach is so risible he can't even get value for what he does spend.
He's had two years and three months to work it out. He has failed because he has repeated the same mistakes over and over again, and because he employs idiots, which in my book makes him one himself.
looks like some of you on bent on mutually assured destruction if you ask me.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive.
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic.
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE!
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things.
all agree that we need
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad) -Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes -A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place -More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club -Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
END
There were people put off coming BEFORE the demonstrations. We have been losing supporters steadily since RD took over. Many of the people who have stopped going to The Valley (myself included) will not set foot in that place until RD is gone. So please don't try to spin the line that it's the protests putting people off coming, because frankly, that's rubbish.
In terms of your bullet points and final paragraph. Yes, we do need all those things, but we have had no indication that we will EVER get them. So far RD has failed on all the points you mention. Additionally, whilst you say that RD multi-million fortune suggests he is not an idiot, you're right, it does show that in his main business he knows what he is doing. In football he has proven time and again, with us and other clubs, that he does not know what he is doing.
So true WestCountryAddick, some of us have been boycotting home games before CARD even existed and if anything CARD bringing the protests inside the ground is the only thing tempting me back to the Valley, it has been away games only for me for most of the season.
I have even been considering getting a season ticket for the first time since 2006(when I moved to Scotland) now that im back down south and looking set to have a less busy work schedule in the near future but obviously this will not be happening now.
I will be straight on the phone for one the minute I see a picture of our new owner holding up scarfy on the official site, just hoping that will be before we find ourselves in League Two or worse as we continue to spiral down under our arrogant and willfully ignorant current owner.
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
So why has he not adapted and changed at other clubs in the network that have been relegated then?
And as has been said before, if he cared about the club he would at least hear out the details of approaches to see if it was in the best interests of the club rather than treating good Charlton men like Peter Varney in a contemptuous way.
And if money is your benchmark of success, then Roland isn't even half the man that Mike Ashley is... and at least Mike Ashley doesn't have a complete farce of a failed political career.
The Duchatelet interview on the CAST site shows him for what he is. Claims to be a visionary, derides and insults people who disagree with his visions, says some disgraceful things about football fans, yet for all his "vision" the Standard Liege fans have been proved absolutely right to force him out as they've gone on to win things afterwards - those same fans that only opposed him because they were "unemployed with nothing better to do". They've proved they know more about football for starters.
alanalsace you ought to be commended for your effort and persistence, but you are still wrong. I believe that despite what this regime thinks about the goodies they have bestowed, that the resistance and protests will continue. It took seven years to get back to the Valley, in this struggle Charlton supporters haven't even warmed up yet.
If it ends with mutually assured destruction then so be it. Remember the famous quote by Roland Duchatelet: "Beter alternatieren nastreven als apathisch nietsdoen".
If the club goes down the tubes Roland will write it off as a tax loss, taken across his Staprix network it may even achieve beneficial financial balance for Roland for Charlton to swallow up some money as losses rather than a tax official getting the dosh. If the club goes down the tubes, he can minimise losses by attempted asset stripping.
You may call it an interest bearing loan at low interest, yet it is a millstone obstructing the smooth passage of any sale, but it can be dealt with.
Have you any evidence as to those season ticket holders not coming because of the toxic atmosphere? I could counter, that season ticket holders bought on a promise of a better tomorrow together, which has turned out to be an empty promise employed last time season tickets were on sale in order to get money out of the loyal fans. It is not the toxic atmosphere but the broken promise that keeps fans away.
You talk of the odds of promotion to a closed shop Premiership, but you are wrong. Leicester have beaten odds of 5000-1 this season, which makes your odds of 43-1 look achievable. Anyway, just because the Premiership seems like a closed shop to you, does that mean Charlton shouldn't at least try? Do you think clubs like the two Sheffield clubs, Portsmouth, Wolves, Ipswich, Leeds and others have given up trying. If you think that, then you are naive beyond belief.
It is more in our interests for Roland not to change, but to go. He has proved that he can't run things, he has frittered away fan goodwill, he has had opportunity after opportunity to try to do things better, and he is not to be trusted anyway. We came 9th under the spivs and they weren't even visionaries!
You added this little gem in your possible solutions:
-Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
Which won't be cheap?
They may be cheap if fashioned out of duct tape. Or recycled from old dishwasher parts.
Correct me if I am wrong and no doubt I am but did PV not have a part in introducing the SPIVs Airman Brown?
I was referring to some current season ticket holders not coming because of the toxic atmosphere not last year's West Country .
End ( sorry lookout I will try to restrain myself )
He did and whatever his or my view of them subsequently this enabled the club to get back to the Championship, an achievement that Duchatelet - with access to much greater funds - has now reversed.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive.
I'm sure he didn't buy the club with the sole intention of trashing it - but then again, no one has set out with failure as their destination have they? Would you claim that the bankers who sat watchful whilst the economic crisis was developing intended to fail in such a spectacular fashion?
Unfortunately, there will be no positives whilst Roland is in town. His appointment of an unqualified, naive and frankly horrible person sums up how seriously he is taking his interim stewardship at Charlton. Whilst we have someone who refuses to employ fit and proper people (£50K for a Chief Scout?! Similar for a manager too?!) we will be unable to succeed.
Besides, who said anything about kissing away £40m - it's owed to Staprix, one of his own companies... remember?
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive.
Of course you remembered the Staprix loan, because you defend it here.
You can't argue that selling would involve kissing goodbye to £40,000,000 and then defend his - rather standard - use of inter company loans! He either loses his £40,000,000 or it's a loan, it can't be both. So you openly concede that regardless of what Roland does from here - he does not lose the money, so stop saying he will. Simply put, the new regime will take on Charlton's debt to Staprix.
For the record, yes - this is a common way of financing a club, no one has said otherwise. However people are naturally quite disturbed that their beloved football club is being held accountable for the financial mismanagement of Roland's little adventure: where player acquisition and contract negotiations have been a joke that account for a large share of that debt. His own mismanagement of the club has made that debt far higher than it need to be.
I once again ask you to look at the financial issues at Standard Liege, when Roland sold they were left in quite a mess. This guy does not understand the football business and is playing with our football club without due care, his negligence threatens the future of our club.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic.
I openly apologised for the reception you were receiving - and explained the reasons behind it. However your posts do - on the surface - appear very suspicious. Did you think "I hate those protesters, I hear most of them post on CharltonLife... that sounds like a fun website, I must sign up."? The posts you make are also the same recycled points that have come out via the club during various stages - you're playing with the exact same cards as them. Even the usernames of the new posters have been similar!
As for looking around the ground - I attended nearly every home match from Sheffield Wednesday until Boro purely to protest, I'm now sick of it to the point I wont attend again - at least not for a while. I suspect there are more season ticket holders not coming due to the regime than the protests.
Whilst attending I did however notice a trend towards even the quietest parts of the grounds joining in the chants, and for the first time in years I felt emotion and pride at how unified our fanbase had become. The majority want Roland to leave, not 100% - but a democratic majority. What's more - even away fans have been showing their support.. and the media.
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE!
Right. Once again - nobody is protesting about not being in the top 6, nor are they protesting because we're in the bottom 3.
We're protesting because we own this club more so than the current regime, we were here first and we will be here after they've gone. Despite this we've been alienated from something we love, and we're now watching someone test his absurd ideas on it as though it was a laboratory rat.
You ignore that though, and keep arguing with points that no one has made.
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things.
This year proves his methods have failed indeed, but a man who likens himself to Alan Turing would appear very unlikely to change his methods - he doesn't think he's right, he knows it. This year will merely be downplayed as some form of statistical anomaly - much in the way that his other failures are; the internet wasn't ready for local TV (he claims to have beaten YouTube to being... erhh... YouTube.) and his political views are apparently going to come to fruition in Germany soon (erhh... they just tweaked their Tax system, that is all). Roland is incapable of admitting failure.
If this man was truly prepared to change his methods he would've got rid of the CEO who provoked these protests, and adapted his plans to combat the likes of CARD. But he didn't; he continued to steamroller on in the fashion of a man who is too delusional to spot the flaws in his actions.
Just to respond to your point about finishing 12th, we finished 9th the season before he bought us - what's your point exactly?
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad) -Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes -A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place -More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club -Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
We need those things but they are not going to happen, least of all a top academy - kids who are good enough to go to a top academy in London will never choose one attached to League One Charlton; the club where even scouts refuse to work.
RD's previous experience has shown that he can't adapt and change them, not to sound like a broken record, but this guy has had multiple failures during his career.
A bloke "bought" a football club and charges the football club for the privilege. He then loans the club money for operational costs and to cover his own mistakes, setting the term and interest of the loan.
That's not investing anything, it's free cash, especially when the ECB rate is 0%.
The only risk is that no one will ever buy the debt off of him. The club have stated that potential investors are in contact with them all the time so this risk is minimal.
Whoever alanalsace really is I am glad that he or she has tried to crystallise the regime's approach, and tried to present that approach as a viable future for Charlton Athletic. If it is an attempt to put the best possible spin on the party line, then alanalsace (Philip?) is doing that. However if alanalsace is not Katrien or Roland then he or she ought to see from this debate alone that their ideas have failed, and their ambition is doomed. If alanalsace is being put forward to sell this project, in order to preserve credibility and integrity maybe they should now stop and leave. Alanalsace has not countered the point of view presented by the majority of fans here especially Grapevine49. Earlier mutually assured destruction was cited, even posed as a threat. Personally I believe Roland has already destroyed Charlton as a football club, and there are fans like me who will try to destroy this masquerade of a club remnant in order to preserve the memory of what we once were. My personal commitment to Charlton Athletic means I will oppose this regime even to the grave.
looks like some of you on bent on mutually assured destruction if you ask me.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive.
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic.
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE!
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things.
all agree that we need
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad) -Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes -A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place -More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club -Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
END
Once again I repeat - Roland WILL NOT DO WHAT IS REQUIRED - that is the problem!
Roland will absolutely not learn from the mistakes that have been made. He hasn't once.
We have Riga not because he conceded his approach was wrong, but because the internal backlash against the appointment of the Upjest manager was too much to handle. I know for a fact that people within the club told Katrien in plain and simple terms that if she allowed the appointment to happen she should resign.
looks like some of you onare bent on mutually assured destruction if you ask me. You do realise that the theory of Mutual Assured Destruction is a defence policy designed to prevent nuclear conflagration (i.e, that if you destroy me, I will destroy you, and you cannot prevent it). In footballing terms, at Charlton the equivalent is that the threat of CARD action would stop the "Shareholder" from being the complete "visionary" (meaning knobhead) that his stewardship to date has demonstrated him to be. So, yes, I would imagine that many of us would, in those terms, espouse MAD.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive. It surely must be equally naive to suggest that this "visionary's" management of the club, to date, that his whole footballing philosophy is in his interest, if we assume that interest is purely financial. However, in his imagination, he is a great man, ahead of his time, and who sees everything more clearly than the rest of us. He wants the footballing business model to align with the model that he believes in; but I have not yet noticed a huge outpouring of admiration for, and emulation of, the Duchatelet Way (maybe his myriad supporters among his, ahem, "partners" will seek to have Ransome Walk, or Floyd Road, renamed thus in his honour). He is determined to keep on keeping on with his crackpot schemes, because he cannot conceive that he might be wrong.
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive. It is clear that he hopes that he will recoup the interest in the future, because he "knows" that he can make his "vision" work. And yes, football club owners and directors do give or loan money on a regular basis, but many do so without expectation of repayment or adding any interest onto the loans. If you assume that the Shareholder is relatively unchanged from the owner of Standard Liege, it appears that he is quite happy to sell players to recoup his loans (without any concern for the impact of their sale on the team) and, also, to require a percentage of any future sell on fees, until the loans are repaid. That, I would suggest, is relatively unusual in the English game.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic. Well, I would suggest that the opposite view (if we take opposite to mean what it says on the tin) to that of CARD, and myself, is that: 1) The club has never been better run than it is today; 2) Management of the club (on and off field) is not just adequate, but excellent; 3) The player selection since The Shareholder bought the club has been uniformly brilliant; 4) All changes to backroom staff, to date, have improved matters; 5) The CEO is doing a wonderful job, really listens, communicates fantastically well and cares about fans; 6) Ditto for the COO; 7) Ditto for The Shareholder; 8) Ditto for the Chairman/President; 9) The pitch is lovely and should keep us happy for years and years; 10) Ditto for the lovely new red seats; 11) Ditto for the fan sofa; 12) Thousands of ST holders are only being kept away because the thrill of The Valley matchday experience this season is too much for many mere mortals to handle; 13) Placing a call centre in the Ticket Office was a masterstroke; 14) There are no concerns whatsoever that the debt (whether "friendly" or otherwise) has grown so quickly since 2014; 15) Well, you get the idea, I could go on, but if I think about The Shareholder too much I get all light-headed... So, anyway, that's the opposite view to that of CARD, which could only, IMHO, be expressed by either a regime stooge or a regime employee (who is also a stooge). Of course, maybe you didn't mean opposite...
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE! Hardly anyone is suggesting what you are putting forward, so to make it a major plank for your argument must be a bit "unique" (meaning weird). Mind you, I can state, without fear of contradiction, that the odds of being promoted to The Premiership from League One are a bit worse than 43/1. By the way, when you are suggesting that we accept RD, are you intimating that he's a very naughty boy?
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things. There is no evidence from his ventures outside of his core business that The Shareholder changes. He attempts to make everyone else change to suit him (like trying to make the Solar System to orbit Pluto) and, when he fails (which seems quite a common occurrence for someone who does not do failure), he gives up. I look forward to that day...
all agree that we need
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad) Not the Duchatelet Way, I'm afraid. -Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes Not the Duchatelet Way, I'm afraid. -A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place And there was me, thinking that well-advised youngsters go to the Academy which will develop them most effectively and (for their guardians) in the most rounded way. Do youngsters really only come to us now because they think we will sell them? Maybe it's our reputation for developing players properly. Do you honestly think that the myriad changes in backroom staff create an environment in which players will be developed in the right way? Do you believe that parents will happily send their children to a club where they can be thrown in to first team football too early and their footballing development hampered? -More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club Not the Duchatelet Way, I'm afraid. -Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters Not the Duchatelet Way, I'm afraid.
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot Not the Duchatelet Way, I'm afraid. I don't think that he's a complete idiot, as he is obviously competent in those areas in which he is knowledgeable, but football is not one of them. The evidence seems to suggest that he is strangely set in his ways for someone with an empirical engineering/scientific background. He lacks the flexibility of thinking and innovative nature to be the visionary that he claims; he is just, frankly, out of his depth.
looks like some of you on bent on mutually assured destruction if you ask me.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive.
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic.
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE!
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things.
all agree that we need
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad) -Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes -A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place -More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club -Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
END
@alanalsace the stated things that need changing cannot be argued with. The glaring omission from your list is needing a new owner.
Since the owner is the only one who can make theses changes, why would your list not include the hope, if not the need, for a new owner to make the changes.
Perhaps you can be clearer as to why you think the current owner can, and a new owner couldn't make the required changes. Ignore contra reasons such as "he might be mad as well".
If you just think the protests are futile then you are not alone, and many have said as much, but most do not go on to offer support/sympathy/defence of RD. Do we detect a love that dare not speak its name.
In common with statements from the club and emails from the new Supporters Relationship initiative, you are heavy on what is wrong, what needs to be done, why stuff shouldn't be done and where criticism of management is unfounded, but light on how the objectives of stability etc are going to be achieved. Most of us know it requires either a change in the owner's philosophy or a change of the owner.
This is why posts such as yours suffer a questioning of credibility because you have not openly declared your allegiance with the owner and try and confuse it with allegiance to Charlton.
dippenhall I don't know the owner from Adam - get over yourself !
Either I am right and RD seeks compromise which meets with a positive response from the fans Or I am wrong and RD runs the club into the ground or he runs off nursing his wounds and crying over his written off loan Selling to a. The new messiah with the brains and inability to make any errors like Grapevine ( crikey that was a self righteous post
Comments
No.
I want a Premier league club.
Leeds had... Brian Deane.
With Cassano, after Madrid he went on to play for Sampdoria, Milan, Inter, and Parma, despite being known as a complete nightmare to manage. I don't know what to make of Cassano... wasted talent? But then playing for all those huge teams and having championships / cups on his CV, well it's not been a bad career really!
Finding a buyer and agreeing the terms of sale are his problem, not ours. Our job is to demonstrate loudly and clearly that getting out of Dodge is by far and away the best decision for him. It's up to him how he does it though.
I could almost interpret your post as the regime putting forward a basis for negotiation.
Before I respond in any detail I want to say that I don't trust the regime one little bit, either on what they say they will do or have done (eg calling massive debt 'quasi equity' ), or in their sincerity in wanting us fans to actually attend and feel positive about our club. I also don't trust them because of what they've already done in destroying our club for the last two years.
There is for me no reason not to continue opposing this destructive regime, and if there is going to be a reason to reconcile it would have to be a seminal change, not a vague line about face painting flag waving family friendliness (which we have always been anyway), nor a cheap north lower seating area.
This regime can't seriously think that by smiling, saying 'tah dah family friendly and cheap' they have healed the chasm like rift with good decent loyal supporters that they have created. Created it seems to me quite deliberately, and quite cynically.
So, to negotiate. Sticking with Riga, or any manager, depends on their degree of autonomy. At the moment Riga is as constrained as Peeters, Luzon and Fraeye were. The entire realistic English football world say this management approach is doomed. No manager autonomy, and adequate support, no deal.
Bringing in players experienced in this league depends on scouting and planning. We got rid of a scout, and the 'local' player void was filled by agents pressing Vaz Te, Williams, Rojo and Poyet on us. It was panic signings that made agents salivate. So approaching signings as we have been doing? No deal.
Changing CEO I agree with but only if they have autonomy and responsibility. If your point means basically the departure of Katrien then that would be half a deal done.
Roland has loaded the club with debt to indulge his crazy whims. We need to acknowledge that first and foremost. I refer you to my point about quasi equity above.
We don't want what you describe. We want to win the Premier League like Leicester, or at least try.
Interesting you use the new regime buzz word 'partners' at the end. I would much prefer new owners.
1. There is no way it is in the interests of RD to see the club go down the tubes. He may well have mis-managed many things but to believe he wants to kiss goodbye to his £40m is naive.
2. Suggesting that someone is exploiting the club because he is putting his money in in the form of a loan with a notional low commercial rate of interest ( interest he can't collect unless he pays it to himself) when this is the model that has been followed for years in football including in part by previous CAFC Directors, is again naive.
3. Suggesting that anyone who has an opposite view to the CARD is a club stooge or employee is insulting and again naive. Look around -not everyone is standing up when the chants of RD out start, and quite a few are deterred from coming, despite having paid for season tickets, because the atmosphere at Home games is often toxic.
4. To believe that there is some financial Messiah out there now that the doors to the PREMIERSHIP have been more or less locked by the new TV £100m relegation deal is again naive beyond belief. At best there will be 1 maybe 2 clubs outside the recently relegated premiership clubs who will win promotion every two years. That's odds of 43/1 to get promoted requiring a £50m stake- come on - WAKE UP PLEASE!
5.RD needs CAFC to be a reasonably successful Championship Club. This year proves his methods have failed to achieve this ( although perhaps we are quick to forget we came 12th last year with 60 points under RD) so it is in our and his interests for him to change and improve the way he runs things.
all agree that we need
-Stable management with more autonomy (again Riga's win ratio with us is actually not that bad)
-Far less player turnover- although most of the turnover is caused by too many Manager changes
-A top academy that has to sell its very best players because if we don't they won't come to us in the first place
-More professional and experienced day to day internal management of the club
-Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
chastened by relegation ,or fingers crossed near relegation, you might find RD agreeing with the above- when the facts change clever people adapt and change with them- RD's multi-million euro fortune suggests he is not a complete idiot
END
2. The spivs did not charge the club interest and the former directors accepted an arrangement where they do not receive any on the limited money they didn't write off altogether.
3. Nobody suggests that is true of everyone who has a different view, yet it is transparently obvious that some posters are club stooges, as was the case under the spivs.
4. If RD had a conversation with Varney instead of publishing the various garbage statements he's made on the subject to justify Meire's pathetic procrastination he'd find out what's on the table, wouldn't he? You certainly don't know. Neither do I, but I suggest the people involved realise that any offer has to benefit both sides.
5. The club will never be a successful Championship club under RD because he believes he can beat the market, while in practice his approach is so risible he can't even get value for what he does spend.
He's had two years and three months to work it out. He has failed because he has repeated the same mistakes over and over again, and because he employs idiots, which in my book makes him one himself.
There were people put off coming BEFORE the demonstrations. We have been losing supporters steadily since RD took over. Many of the people who have stopped going to The Valley (myself included) will not set foot in that place until RD is gone. So please don't try to spin the line that it's the protests putting people off coming, because frankly, that's rubbish.
In terms of your bullet points and final paragraph. Yes, we do need all those things, but we have had no indication that we will EVER get them. So far RD has failed on all the points you mention. Additionally, whilst you say that RD multi-million fortune suggests he is not an idiot, you're right, it does show that in his main business he knows what he is doing. In football he has proven time and again, with us and other clubs, that he does not know what he is doing.
I have even been considering getting a season ticket for the first time since 2006(when I moved to Scotland) now that im back down south and looking set to have a less busy work schedule in the near future but obviously this will not be happening now.
I will be straight on the phone for one the minute I see a picture of our new owner holding up scarfy on the official site, just hoping that will be before we find ourselves in League Two or worse as we continue to spiral down under our arrogant and willfully ignorant current owner.
I was referring to some current season ticket holders not coming because of the toxic atmosphere not last year's West Country .
End ( sorry lookout I will try to restrain myself )
And as has been said before, if he cared about the club he would at least hear out the details of approaches to see if it was in the best interests of the club rather than treating good Charlton men like Peter Varney in a contemptuous way.
And if money is your benchmark of success, then Roland isn't even half the man that Mike Ashley is... and at least Mike Ashley doesn't have a complete farce of a failed political career.
The Duchatelet interview on the CAST site shows him for what he is. Claims to be a visionary, derides and insults people who disagree with his visions, says some disgraceful things about football fans, yet for all his "vision" the Standard Liege fans have been proved absolutely right to force him out as they've gone on to win things afterwards - those same fans that only opposed him because they were "unemployed with nothing better to do". They've proved they know more about football for starters.
If it ends with mutually assured destruction then so be it. Remember the famous quote by Roland Duchatelet: "Beter alternatieren nastreven als apathisch nietsdoen".
If the club goes down the tubes Roland will write it off as a tax loss, taken across his Staprix network it may even achieve beneficial financial balance for Roland for Charlton to swallow up some money as losses rather than a tax official getting the dosh. If the club goes down the tubes, he can minimise losses by attempted asset stripping.
You may call it an interest bearing loan at low interest, yet it is a millstone obstructing the smooth passage of any sale, but it can be dealt with.
Have you any evidence as to those season ticket holders not coming because of the toxic atmosphere? I could counter, that season ticket holders bought on a promise of a better tomorrow together, which has turned out to be an empty promise employed last time season tickets were on sale in order to get money out of the loyal fans. It is not the toxic atmosphere but the broken promise that keeps fans away.
You talk of the odds of promotion to a closed shop Premiership, but you are wrong. Leicester have beaten odds of 5000-1 this season, which makes your odds of 43-1 look achievable. Anyway, just because the Premiership seems like a closed shop to you, does that mean Charlton shouldn't at least try? Do you think clubs like the two Sheffield clubs, Portsmouth, Wolves, Ipswich, Leeds and others have given up trying. If you think that, then you are naive beyond belief.
It is more in our interests for Roland not to change, but to go. He has proved that he can't run things, he has frittered away fan goodwill, he has had opportunity after opportunity to try to do things better, and he is not to be trusted anyway. We came 9th under the spivs and they weren't even visionaries!
You added this little gem in your possible solutions:
-Some older experience home grown talent (which won't be cheap) to mix in with the good imports and youngsters
Which won't be cheap?
They may be cheap if fashioned out of duct tape. Or recycled from old dishwasher parts.
Unfortunately, there will be no positives whilst Roland is in town. His appointment of an unqualified, naive and frankly horrible person sums up how seriously he is taking his interim stewardship at Charlton. Whilst we have someone who refuses to employ fit and proper people (£50K for a Chief Scout?! Similar for a manager too?!) we will be unable to succeed.
Besides, who said anything about kissing away £40m - it's owed to Staprix, one of his own companies... remember? Of course you remembered the Staprix loan, because you defend it here.
You can't argue that selling would involve kissing goodbye to £40,000,000 and then defend his - rather standard - use of inter company loans! He either loses his £40,000,000 or it's a loan, it can't be both. So you openly concede that regardless of what Roland does from here - he does not lose the money, so stop saying he will. Simply put, the new regime will take on Charlton's debt to Staprix.
For the record, yes - this is a common way of financing a club, no one has said otherwise. However people are naturally quite disturbed that their beloved football club is being held accountable for the financial mismanagement of Roland's little adventure: where player acquisition and contract negotiations have been a joke that account for a large share of that debt. His own mismanagement of the club has made that debt far higher than it need to be.
I once again ask you to look at the financial issues at Standard Liege, when Roland sold they were left in quite a mess. This guy does not understand the football business and is playing with our football club without due care, his negligence threatens the future of our club. I openly apologised for the reception you were receiving - and explained the reasons behind it. However your posts do - on the surface - appear very suspicious. Did you think "I hate those protesters, I hear most of them post on CharltonLife... that sounds like a fun website, I must sign up."? The posts you make are also the same recycled points that have come out via the club during various stages - you're playing with the exact same cards as them. Even the usernames of the new posters have been similar!
As for looking around the ground - I attended nearly every home match from Sheffield Wednesday until Boro purely to protest, I'm now sick of it to the point I wont attend again - at least not for a while. I suspect there are more season ticket holders not coming due to the regime than the protests.
Whilst attending I did however notice a trend towards even the quietest parts of the grounds joining in the chants, and for the first time in years I felt emotion and pride at how unified our fanbase had become. The majority want Roland to leave, not 100% - but a democratic majority. What's more - even away fans have been showing their support.. and the media. Right. Once again - nobody is protesting about not being in the top 6, nor are they protesting because we're in the bottom 3.
We're protesting because we own this club more so than the current regime, we were here first and we will be here after they've gone. Despite this we've been alienated from something we love, and we're now watching someone test his absurd ideas on it as though it was a laboratory rat.
You ignore that though, and keep arguing with points that no one has made. This year proves his methods have failed indeed, but a man who likens himself to Alan Turing would appear very unlikely to change his methods - he doesn't think he's right, he knows it. This year will merely be downplayed as some form of statistical anomaly - much in the way that his other failures are; the internet wasn't ready for local TV (he claims to have beaten YouTube to being... erhh... YouTube.) and his political views are apparently going to come to fruition in Germany soon (erhh... they just tweaked their Tax system, that is all). Roland is incapable of admitting failure.
If this man was truly prepared to change his methods he would've got rid of the CEO who provoked these protests, and adapted his plans to combat the likes of CARD. But he didn't; he continued to steamroller on in the fashion of a man who is too delusional to spot the flaws in his actions.
Just to respond to your point about finishing 12th, we finished 9th the season before he bought us - what's your point exactly? We need those things but they are not going to happen, least of all a top academy - kids who are good enough to go to a top academy in London will never choose one attached to League One Charlton; the club where even scouts refuse to work.
RD's previous experience has shown that he can't adapt and change them, not to sound like a broken record, but this guy has had multiple failures during his career.
A bloke "bought" a football club and charges the football club for the privilege. He then loans the club money for operational costs and to cover his own mistakes, setting the term and interest of the loan.
That's not investing anything, it's free cash, especially when the ECB rate is 0%.
The only risk is that no one will ever buy the debt off of him. The club have stated that potential investors are in contact with them all the time so this risk is minimal.
If it is an attempt to put the best possible spin on the party line, then alanalsace (Philip?) is doing that. However if alanalsace is not Katrien or Roland then he or she ought to see from this debate alone that their ideas have failed, and their ambition is doomed.
If alanalsace is being put forward to sell this project, in order to preserve credibility and integrity maybe they should now stop and leave. Alanalsace has not countered the point of view presented by the majority of fans here especially Grapevine49.
Earlier mutually assured destruction was cited, even posed as a threat. Personally I believe Roland has already destroyed Charlton as a football club, and there are fans like me who will try to destroy this masquerade of a club remnant in order to preserve the memory of what we once were.
My personal commitment to Charlton Athletic means I will oppose this regime even to the grave.
We have Riga not because he conceded his approach was wrong, but because the internal backlash against the appointment of the Upjest manager was too much to handle. I know for a fact that people within the club told Katrien in plain and simple terms that if she allowed the appointment to happen she should resign.
@alanalsace the stated things that need changing cannot be argued with. The glaring omission from your list is needing a new owner.
Since the owner is the only one who can make theses changes, why would your list not include the hope, if not the need, for a new owner to make the changes.
Perhaps you can be clearer as to why you think the current owner can, and a new owner couldn't make the required changes. Ignore contra reasons such as "he might be mad as well".
If you just think the protests are futile then you are not alone, and many have said as much, but most do not go on to offer support/sympathy/defence of RD. Do we detect a love that dare not speak its name.
In common with statements from the club and emails from the new Supporters Relationship initiative, you are heavy on what is wrong, what needs to be done, why stuff shouldn't be done and where criticism of management is unfounded, but light on how the objectives of stability etc are going to be achieved. Most of us know it requires either a change in the owner's philosophy or a change of the owner.
This is why posts such as yours suffer a questioning of credibility because you have not openly declared your allegiance with the owner and try and confuse it with allegiance to Charlton.
I don't know the owner from Adam - get over yourself !
Either I am right and RD seeks compromise which meets with a positive response from the fans
Or
I am wrong and RD runs the club into the ground or he runs off nursing his wounds and crying over his written off loan
Selling to
a. The new messiah with the brains and inability to make any errors like Grapevine ( crikey that was a self righteous post