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Should we not be honest & promise a route to the premiership to attract the very best young talent?

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  • I would love it if someone wanted to gamble their fortune on us for sure but I don't see anyone out there - if you do let's name names ?
    Roland is hated by many because he won't gamble his fortune on us
    That's a good reason to be upset but it's a bit rich to tell him to get lost if he won't gamble his cash
    Because of the massive relegation payouts the premiership is effectively becoming like the US football leagues i.e. No relegation - just as the American investors have always wanted
    Assuming the current bottom three all went down all of them will be back up within 1 or 2 years max 3
    Not much room for anyone else unless they can gamble millions

    Just a couple of points of information
    Owners of companies make intercompany loans all the time - what ever way he puts money in its mainly his cash that pays the wages etc. Players don't get paid in Monopoly money and losses have to be paid for -there's no magical credit card out there now that the banks avoid football as much as they can
    I was at Brentford and the post match player response was a real shock
    Considering it was a rare and very good win.

    The bottom 3 will be back up within 2 or 3 years ?
    Someone forgot to tell Wigan, Portsmouth, Wolves, Fulham etc. Oh and that nice little family club from the SE7 area
  • This guy has got to be a wind up. Even if you don't take CARD's side of the argument you would know their argument and not be so naive with response.
    I can't be bothered to explain why I think he is wrong. If he can't work it out for himself after 2 years he will not understand it in an evening on the internet, he can and does though.
  • Another guy who makes a lot of statements but fails to debate the points. Move along.
  • Anal Al is talking out of his backside.
    Sonogo went OTT considering we were still well adrift of the 4th from bottom but i saw other players clapping their hands at the fans us they walked pass.
    Considering that some drunks told the players to fuck off at Fulham.
    Fox, Solly and ? were given dogs abuse when they tried to clap the fans at the end. (Fulham)

    Unless your under 10, everyone knows we have been a selling club,
    Other than Richard Murray's tenure part 1.

    I am so proud of the fans for trying to make a change,
    not over optimistic, the change will come any time soon. but at least we has shown some spirit that we don't just want to be a club going no where other than down with this useless owner and his female side kick.

    Actually, I think it was Fox and Harriott who were "given dogs abuse" because Solly dragged them over as they reached the tunnel.
    Dragged isn't my term, I think it was used in a recent edition of VOTV in an article about Chris Solly.
  • edited April 2016
    drewman said:

    SDAddick said:

    I think our differentiator should be that we develop good you players AND offer them chance of first team games, see Gomez, Poyet, Cousins, Shelvey, etc. This is especially true when you look at how many young players have come through and become first team regulars at Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham, and Palace of late. I am also of the belief that promotion to the Premier League for a club of our size and means should be a far lower priority than ensuring Championship safety. I know there are a lot on here who feel we should be pushing for the Premier League year-on-year, but given the number of big money owners who have come in at the Championship level, we are unlikely to do that unless we are bought by one such owner with deep pockets, and joining the arms race can be a long term risk to the club (should said owners lose interest). QPR, Fulham, Forest, and Cardiff have all already massively overspent, and none of them will be promoted this year.

    Where I take issue with what Katrien said in Dublin is that simply promoting young players, providing "the future stars of the Premier League," should not be the sum total of our ambition. The ability to bring in and fully develop such players is dependent on the standing of our first team, and it gets harder to attract and keep quality players in the long run if the first team performs poorly. Short of maybe Crewe Alexandria, a club cannot simply be a conveyor belt for producing young talent, especially in our catchment area.



    Not trying to be a pain in the arse but who have Crewe produced in the last few years? Since say Platt, Rob Jones era. But I do take your point, just think that the Crewe example is overused.
    Not unfair question at all. Since the Platt era you'd have Danny Murphy, Dean Ashton (who was sold to Norwich in the Premier League in 2005 I think), David Vaughn, Billy Jones. Then more recently the likes of Nicky Maynard (MK Dons, good at Championship level), Max Clayton (Bolton), and Nick Powell (sold to United obviously). The latter two played at U-17 level with Jordan Cousins and looked decent.

    My point wasn't that they produce world beaters year-on-year, but rather they're the only club who seem to be able to still attract, future, and then sell-on some pretty decently talent footballers despite being in League One/Two.

    Full credit to @LuckyReds @Airman Brown @kentaddick @seth plum and the others who have answered question sincerely. I understand the frustration when someone's first post is questioning what is going on, but I don't think calling them stooges of the regime or other names helps. Instead I think it's important to take people at face value and address their concerns at such. I don't currently have anything to add that hasn't already been spoken, but again I applaud all of you who have taken the time to respond.
  • Two in two days, Easter Holiday time isn't it?
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  • edited April 2016


    Because of the massive relegation payouts the premiership is effectively becoming like the US football leagues i.e. No relegation - just as the American investors have always wanted
    Assuming the current bottom three all went down all of them will be back up within 1 or 2 years max 3
    Not much room for anyone else unless they can gamble millions

    So I am going to contradict what I just said about "nothing to add" and add something.

    I don't entirely disagree with this, although I don't think the US leagues without relegation/promotion are a good example. There is still relegation and promotion, and it is incredibly costly.

    That said, the Premier League has long been creating a "Haves and Have Nots" culture. With the increase in revenue and parachute payments, this will only get starker. It is because of this money and marketing potential for the Premier League that owners have been willing to come in or bankroll clubs, write off tens if not hundred of million in debt, and run clubs at a loss (to varying degrees, depending on the owner). This can backfire massively, as it did with Portsmouth, Bolton, Birmingham (remember Carson Yeung?), Notts County, etc. Success stories would include Bournemouth, Leicester, Boro, Hull, etc.

    Roland is a part of this, albeit a smaller and less successful version. He has, and he is not alone in this, not wiped our debts but rather loaned us money from one of his companies (and continues to do so) so that the club can keep going. In my mind, this isn't entirely unreasonable, and it's where I agree with you in that there aren't a lot of millionaires/billionaires out there willing to give out tens of millions in immediate losses just to be a part of the arms race to the Premier League.

    This is why I, and I think I am relatively alone in this, blame the set-up(s) within English football for this economy and ecosystem far more than I blame any one owner, including Roland. We don't have to go through all of the decisions made over the last 25 years, but at the end of the day historic, cherished institutions have been allowed to take on unmanageable debt and nearly go bankrupt despite record revenue streams seemingly without one iota of oversight. To me it's incredibly irresponsible, and I believe it is a bubble economy that will burst at some point.


  • Roland that caused the injury to by our first top class striker for many years -Igor- by kicking him when on a rare visit to the UK

    Did he kick him with his gaffer-taped shoes?
  • Joined today...first post digs fans

    IP address resolves to?...
  • 1StevieG said:

    If MY soN hAd the talent of GoMEz or Lookman then there IS no way I would allow him to play at our Academy unless he had a good prospect of first team games and therefore a shop window for the bigger clubs. I Know this is a sAd reflecTion on CAFC but its RealIty. PaymENts to relegated preMiErshIp clubs next yeaR could bE as much as £100m - perhaps we all need to wake up a little.

    Nice try Katrien. You can't make fools out of us.....
    Excellent
  • If this poster could be traced back to the club, what a PR own goal that would be for the regime.
  • I was also at the Brentford game and my recollection was that all the players came to clap the support and that Riga was well made up.

    Sanogo got a lot of support and went mental for it and tried to wind is up more but the rest of the team also appreciated the support a lot, even though most of what I remember chanting for the whole 90 was anti-regime.

    To look to be an established championship side that, with careful management has a tilt at playoffs is a sensible goal.

    I agree the loan financing is a bit of a side show. Although it may become less plausible from both a tax perspective (which is probably the main driver currently) and under League 2 regulations.

    To execute properly on a strategy, employment of competent playing and support staff is key. Running a football club is not a task for the novice or the incompetent.

    The main problem here is the total incompetence of the senior management and the staff used to hire. That is why there is so much pressure being applied.

    The model proposed can work. But not if nearly every decision made is a bad one.

    Unfortunately KM has been incontinently incompetent, TK seems if anything worse, and if Phoenix Nights were to reboot as a football club rather than a night club, the last two years at the Valley (and Bolton to be fair) would provide Peter Kaye with a whole load of material he wouldn't have to do anything with to make everyone think it was a hilarious spoof of a club.

    And this is why there can be no compromise. The lights may be on at The Valley but no one's home. It's that bad.
  • I don't seek to tell Roland that he should spend more money on the club, I don't even really care that much if he stays or goes, I just want us to be run as a proper football club again.

    We deserve better than the string of under-qualified no-marks that have filled key roles in the club from head coach to CEO. Even if we are trying to live entirely within our means we can do better than Karel Fraeye, Katrien Meire and players like Reza.
  • Thanks for the more considered responses
    I quite agree that there is a lot wrong with the way Roland's plan has been executed , and supporters don't start mass campaigns without good reason - they are rightly angry with poor communication and far too many managers
    But let's be very honest
    1. Varney hasn't got the money if he did you would have heard a lot more by now
    2. Relegated premiership clubs massive payouts change everything and we need to acknowledge that from now on very few promoted clubs won't be the recently relegated ones because of the huge parachute payments
    3. Some of the players brought in from abroad have been excellent so someone somewhere can recruit a player-Igor was the best up front I've seen since Bent as I'm sure most would agree.
    4. The very best youngsters will only come to us if we play them in the first team when ready and show them a route map to the premiership
    5. If someone owns a loss making company and then makes a loan to the same company to fund the losses it doesn't make him a financial criminal - If you don't understand that then you are unfortunately financially illiterate



    Ps at Brentford the players stood around the halfway line for a very long time before coming towards us -as those who were there would surely agree it was very strange. I wasn't at Fulham so didn't know about the abuse so that probably explains it



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  • Thanks for the more considered responses
    I quite agree that there is a lot wrong with the way Roland's plan has been executed , and supporters don't start mass campaigns without good reason - they are rightly angry with poor communication and far too many managers
    But let's be very honest
    1. Varney hasn't got the money if he did you would have heard a lot more by now
    2. Relegated premiership clubs massive payouts change everything and we need to acknowledge that from now on very few promoted clubs won't be the recently relegated ones because of the huge parachute payments
    3. Some of the players brought in from abroad have been excellent so someone somewhere can recruit a player-Igor was the best up front I've seen since Bent as I'm sure most would agree.
    4. The very best youngsters will only come to us if we play them in the first team when ready and show them a route map to the premiership
    5. If someone owns a loss making company and then makes a loan to the same company to fund the losses it doesn't make him a financial criminal - If you don't understand that then you are unfortunately financially illiterate



    Ps at Brentford the players stood around the halfway line for a very long time before coming towards us -as those who were there would surely agree it was very strange. I wasn't at Fulham so didn't know about the abuse so that probably explains it



    How shall I recognise you at Bolton 2 weeks tomorrow, AA ?

    :smile:

  • edited April 2016

    I'll be sitting next Katrien of course Fanny

    I'll make sure to give you a wave, AA.

    Or should I say, Richard ?
  • edited April 2016
    Two Shats is very quickly going to find his source of Premiership quality talent drying up. No sensible parent is going to let their kid play for Charlton if there are other options on the table, because quite frankly:

    Toxic

    The only youngsters that will be signing for us are those that aren't good enough to go to other teams.
  • Thanks for the more considered responses
    I quite agree that there is a lot wrong with the way Roland's plan has been executed , and supporters don't start mass campaigns without good reason - they are rightly angry with poor communication and far too many managers - There is everything wrong with the plan, because the plan suffers from that most basic of flaws: It is not grounded in reality. Football is a crazy industry, and to make a success of that industry you need to understand it. The Shareholder understands it in his other financial endeavours, why not with football.
    But let's be very honest
    1. Varney hasn't got the money if he did you would have heard a lot more by now - He never claimed to have the money, rather he was prepared to put those with money in contact with the club. Prospective purchasers of clubs don't generally broadcast their plans or funds - unless they're Michael Knighton.
    2. Relegated premiership clubs massive payouts change everything and we need to acknowledge that from now on very few promoted clubs won't be the recently relegated ones because of the huge parachute payments - All that's happening is that the current situation, already bad, gets worse. But it's not that much different from the idea that only the biggest teams win the Premier League. I am far too much of a believer in the cock up theory of life to assume that the parachute payments will automatically mean return to the Prem. What needs to happen, is that other clubs need to be smarter, which we won't be with the regime in charge, given the evidence of their tenure to date.
    3. Some of the players brought in from abroad have been excellent so someone somewhere can recruit a player-Igor was the best up front I've seen since Bent as I'm sure most would agree. - When fully fit, he's good. Has he given more to the team than a certain Monsieur Kermogant. But fully fit has been a foreign country for many of the imports. I really do not think we have had enough minutes from almost all of the players brought in since Duchatelet took over to say that they are excellent. Of course, you may have meant Marcus.
    4. The very best youngsters will only come to us if we play them in the first team when ready and show them a route map to the premiership - Well given the way the regime throws youngsters in without, seemingly, the faintest regard for their welfare, you can rest assured that we won't be overburdened with the best youngsters under Duchatelet.
    5. If someone owns a loss making company and then makes a loan to the same company to fund the losses it doesn't make him a financial criminal - If you don't understand that then you are unfortunately financially illiterate - Apart from some, tongue in cheek, suggestions that the only way that the regime approach makes sense is if it is for money laundering, I don't recall anyone suggesting RD is a criminal. But there are oh so many ways in which he fails to make the grade of even the most basic competence as a football club owner. If anything, his cack handed approach to running our club, suggests that, with the exception of the business that he understands, it's Roland who is (football) financially illiterate.

    Ps at Brentford the players stood around the halfway line for a very long time before coming towards us -as those who were there would surely agree it was very strange. I wasn't at Fulham so didn't know about the abuse so that probably explains it

  • Vetokele better than Bent or Kermorgant.

    I've read it all now.
  • boggzy said:

    Vetokele better than Bent or Kermorgant.

    I've read it all now.

    Seems to have skipped over BWP! At least he could put away a one on one.
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Roland Out Forever!