I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
What you fail to realise, SD, is that it was an honest response.....
Seems to have skipped over BWP! At least he could put away a one on one.
That was absolutely not my experience when I was at The Valley during our promotion year. Football for a Fiver was home to Stevenage that year where he missed a hatful (he was in a poor run of form) before he eventually scored (I think, I remember Morro scored that day...also I think).
His shout was that Igor was the best since Bent. Not outrageous at all in my opinion. Yann would certainly be in contention, but I think it's a reasonable debate. Will be curious to see what Igor does in the run in if he stays fit. In terms of technique and movement, he'd certainly be ahead but he needs to show he can replicate his form from the start of last year. Fingers F*cking crossed.
Anyone involved in that transaction should apologise and put their own money in to cover the costs.
Awful in so many ways.
Agreed, but there should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta in the same window which meant that RoJo hasn't even been in the squad of late. Now whether those players would have been signed if Riga hadn't come in is a big question (I think it's safe to say Tex wouldn't), as is who exactly is scouting and signing these players. Lastly, the fact that these signings weren't made until the end of Jan/beginning of Feb is another huge problem for me.
Anyone involved in that transaction should apologise and put their own money in to cover the costs.
Awful in so many ways.
Agreed, but there should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta in the same window which meant that RoJo hasn't even been in the squad of late. Now whether those players would have been signed if Riga hadn't come in is a big question (I think it's safe to say Tex wouldn't), as is who exactly is scouting and signing these players. Lastly, the fact that these signings weren't made until the end of Jan/beginning of Feb is another huge problem for me.
Same model as previous in picking up unattached players (not Teixiera) after the window because they are cheaper, but was too little too late.
Anyone involved in that transaction should apologise and put their own money in to cover the costs.
Awful in so many ways.
Agreed, but there should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta in the same window which meant that RoJo hasn't even been in the squad of late. Now whether those players would have been signed if Riga hadn't come in is a big question (I think it's safe to say Tex wouldn't), as is who exactly is scouting and signing these players. Lastly, the fact that these signings weren't made until the end of Jan/beginning of Feb is another huge problem for me.
I'm not sure he deserves any credit. We should have had a squad that was fit for purpose at the START of the season, every man and his dog could see we didn't have the numbers or the quality to manage a competitive Championship campaign. The only reason we got those players in January is because he was crapping himself as relegation was staring us in the face.
The thing that drove me mad was hearing Katrien saying we were over our wage budget back in September. Either they were paying over-inflated wages to players that were not contributing or the wage budget was not big enough. It's also probably the case that all the players that were out on loan (PP, Tucadean, Reza (before he returned) etc) were at least being part funded by us.
The playing squad has been completely mismanaged since day one. Selling our best players and replacing them with network non-entities was ridiculous, but after they spouted the nonsense that they underestimated the division and had learned lessons, the next opportunity they had to put it right, they failed to do so.
I'd also be keen to know who's idea it was to sign RoJo, Poyet and Rhys Williams. All three turned up together at a time when we were manager-less. None of the three had played enough football, and after Riga sent Williams back to Boro with his tail between his legs, the other two have barely featured at all. It's just another example of how this useless regime waste money.
@Airman Brown@WestCountryAddick First off, I agree with both of you, I was simply trying to keep us from falling into the trap of judging things by one signing. I tried to make this point in the last sentence of my above post, as well as in various other threads, the fact that these signings were not made until February is incredibly damning. This is made even worse by the fact that Motta was unattached, and that it would seem Yun had no part in QPR's first team plans. Fanni is, as I understand it, still tied to Al-Arabi so he presumably couldn't have moved until January, though again he didn't join us until the last day of the transfer window after a busy January period.
Lastly, completely agree that at the start of the season, and even after two summer deadline day signings, the squad was desperately short on numbers, particularly in central defense and up front.
I'd also be keen to know who's idea it was to sign RoJo, Poyet and Rhys Williams. All three turned up together at a time when we were manager-less. None of the three had played enough football, and after Riga sent Williams back to Boro with his tail between his legs, the other two have barely featured at all. It's just another example of how this useless regime waste money.
This is what I was trying to allude to in my post, and it's what I consider to be absolutely obscene mismanagement of this, and any football club. The fact that when AB says "he," I don't know who he is talking about unless Roland himself signs the players. This really shouldn't be the case, but, *sigh* nothing surprises anymore. WA, your question of "whose idea is it" is the same thing. Who is signing these players? Or rather, who is scouting them, checking their fitness, their availability, how they fit into the squad in the short term and into the "vision" in the longer term. Who negotiates, who structures contracts again budgets, performance, etc.?
Although he has apparently come out against them in the past, I fear that our scouting is overly dependent on agents hocking their wares to the club, which is a stupid way to run a transfer policy. This is what a director of football and head of scouting should be doing. And if they do their jobs well, they potentially save a lot of money (as well as obviously improving the playing staff).
@Airman Brown@WestCountryAddick First off, I agree with both of you, I was simply trying to keep us from falling into the trap of judging things by one signing. I tried to make this point in the last sentence of my above post, as well as in various other threads, the fact that these signings were not made until February is incredibly damning. This is made even worse by the fact that Motta was unattached, and that it would seem Yun had no part in QPR's first team plans. Fanni is, as I understand it, still tied to Al-Arabi so he presumably couldn't have moved until January, though again he didn't join us until the last day of the transfer window after a busy January period.
Lastly, completely agree that at the start of the season, and even after two summer deadline day signings, the squad was desperately short on numbers, particularly in central defense and up front.
I'd also be keen to know who's idea it was to sign RoJo, Poyet and Rhys Williams. All three turned up together at a time when we were manager-less. None of the three had played enough football, and after Riga sent Williams back to Boro with his tail between his legs, the other two have barely featured at all. It's just another example of how this useless regime waste money.
This is what I was trying to allude to in my post, and it's what I consider to be absolutely obscene mismanagement of this, and any football club. The fact that when AB says "he," I don't know who he is talking about unless Roland himself signs the players. This really shouldn't be the case, but, *sigh* nothing surprises anymore. WA, your question of "whose idea is it" is the same thing. Who is signing these players? Or rather, who is scouting them, checking their fitness, their availability, how they fit into the squad in the short term and into the "vision" in the longer term. Who negotiates, who structures contracts again budgets, performance, etc.?
Although he has apparently come out against them in the past, I fear that our scouting is overly dependent on agents hocking their wares to the club, which is a stupid way to run a transfer policy. This is what a director of football and head of scouting should be doing. And if they do their jobs well, they potentially save a lot of money (as well as obviously improving the playing staff).
You know RD does his own due diligence, don't you?
He(RD) has effectively relegated the club by refusing to put together a budget significant enough for us to stay up, furthermore if he had a competent management, scouting and coaching team, he MAY have been able to achieve a result of staying up, however he did his Alan Turing thing and ostracized himself from any comment or interaction that may have achieved such an aim and is hence in a shit fight with thousands of loyal, supporting, focusing fans who have generations of backing.
For those that don't see it really is a case of the emperor's new clothes.
For those that are being used to create divide and conquer on here and are paid to do so, it's time to resign, you don't work for anything that can be recognised as CAFC at the moment.
And for KM and RD themselves, you are utterly weird/unique.
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable. However, the personnel, the structure and the plan, such as it is, aren't capable of delivering that, never mind running the business, which is why the situation can't be resolved with warm words.
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership
3. The club sometimes make good signings-
...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK
and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid?
4. some accept the new larger parachute payments are a problem - although to be fair most try and gloss over this 'elephant in the room'
5. roger johnson a 'solid championship player' was a poor signing- I AGREE
6. the TOXIC atmosphere at the club is probably not helping us sign promising youngsters, and definitely not POSITIVE for player morale. ( some of you claimed it has no impact but no-one has said it is having a positive impact)
7. DONT SELL ON YOUNG TALENT- a core aim of the campaign is acknowledged as being unrealistic in this day and age. and most agree that to attract the best we need to play them. Even more so now after Deli Alli.
Yes we can keep some young talent like the excellent JC but the truth is that's because he probably isn't quite good enough for the next step up. Remember for every Gomez and Lookman there will be one Solly (championship player only) and Cousins- who we can hold on to.
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
PS i am very English, London born and i repeat do not know anyone in the management team at the club. so please some of you stop the unfair abuse.
Jorge tex may look like a good signing now, but remember he's a 29 year old on a 4 year contract. Who the hell negotiated that?!
Katrien Meire? The CEO who has never been a CEO anywhere let alone, (at the point of purchase), a fair size football club. She's never been anything anywhere actually although I'm sure she would like to tell the world differently. If her LinkedIn profile is correct I would say she has bugger all experience at footballers contracts and not much else experience other than training. I think I read some where that she deals with the contracts. I could be wrong and imagined this but the madness of the signings would support this for me.
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
what has this discussion got to do with Chris Powell?
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
The problem with the above is that Roland DOES NOT AGREE.
No one is disputing the insanity and gross imbalance of the financial climate of English football.
However people have had there eyes open to theses issues for over a decade.
It was/ is beholden on new owners to complete due diligence in making any investment in the market. One thing is certain the new boy on the block does not get to change the rules as M Duchatelet will know after he arrogantly tried to merge Belgian and Dutch football. His ideas were rejected.
On what basis would you enter the UK market, where for over three decades there is an established track record of favouring the most powerful in the game, and not understand the industry rules. Whatever market intelligence his due diligence team gathered and interpreted they appear to have completely misread the data.
If the owner believes financial Armageddon is about to befall the entire football industry and he is just waiting it out he a) is ignoring the global attraction of the UK game b) will still need deeper and deeper pockets to survive in the meantime.
There is nothing new in any of this debate. If you come to the market you have to expect you are going to have to pay the going rate. If you are not prepared to do so then either do not pay the entrance fee or expect a world of hurt.
I addressed the principles of the financial support of Staprix NV in some detail elsewhere.
The espousal of the Duchatelet vision is wonderful but in the hands of those with no market experience it has been proved to be no more than the naïve ramblings of a complete novice. There is a reason they can put no substance behind the vision. They do not know how to make it work nor do they have the experience or skills to develop a Plan B.
The irony is they have spent money but managed the spend so poorly it has destroyed the fabric of the senior squad.
There is no point to referring to the occasional overseas success when the club is staring relegation in the face because they over 2yrs have failed to construct a viable senior squad. Individual successes in a team sport bring little reward.
The 8 permanent senior squad additions made this season before the January transfer window have contributed the following percentage of starts; - Makienok (54%) - Bauer (49%) - Ba (33%) - Bergdich (29%) - Reza (26%) - Kashki (23%) - Sarr (23%) - Cebellos (3%)
It is a risible return. In fact the return is so risible we have had to draft in a further 9 players to try and keep us up.
I happily acknowledge of those retained from last year Gudmondsson (90%), Diarra (67%) and Henderson (56%) have done well but Vetokele (15%) has been reduced, due to being overplayed last year, to a very limited role.
All before I even mention paying off Bikey, Parzysek, Moussa and Vaz Te, and shipping Dmitrovich, Tucudean and Watts (28%) to all parts East & West & North.
In terms of the academy master plan perhaps we could evaluate what this pathway to the Premier League actually looks like.
There have to date been 2 players who have travelled this path Gomez and Poyet. Poyet took his chance to leave in part because he was being positioned to go on loan to Liege. Hardly a ringing endorsement for the match day experience.
Cousins, Harriott and Solly were all established in the senior squad before the regime took control.
The academy production line is limited to Fox (90%), Lennon (38%) and recently Lookman (26%). Over a 2yr period these are hardly exceptional statistics.
Of the remainder Ahearne Grant (18%), Holmes Dennis (13%) and Kennedy (5%) have with the signing of an additional 9 players had the door slammed shut.
As to the proposed marketing ploy for the academy were I advising any youngster who was approached by a professional club academy indicating they were offering a pathway to their first team I would tell the youngster to look elsewhere.
It is a meaningless line. It was a nonsense statement in Dublin.
No responsible youth coach or academy professional would position such an opportunity until the lad had reached the age of signing his first professional contract.
Any seasoned professional would know in an industry where your prospects can be turned upside down in a week there are just too many pitfalls along the way.
The lower leagues are full of talented young professionals who despite their best endeavours did not make the grade.
In terms of selecting the right academy the quality of coaching, the coaching of life skills, the quality of academic or non footballing employment skills education would all be deciding factors.
It is a matter of pride the record of the academy staff at Charlton in these areas has long been up there with the best in the business.
The pathway to the first team would be of secondary importance and only come into play toward the end of the academy scholarship.
At which point his advisors should be looking at the quality & stability of the clubs senior coaching staff and the quality & stability of the senior squad playing staff to ensure it had the right infrastructure of experience, balance and quality to support the scholar in learning and developing his game.
On the basis of the clubs operating principles of the past 2yrs which in effect positions any young talent as merely a saleable asset I would explore all other options before allowing him to put his signature to any contract with Charlton under this regime.
Would you really submit your son to the carnage of 3 coaching team changes and 60 professionals passing through the clubs books in one season? Do you really think parents, agents and advisors will be cueing up to have the development of their young player in the hands of such an administration?
Do you think this is the best environment for a young player to progress? Do you think professionals across the industry look at the club and say that's where I want to be? Do you not think there will be better options and more stable profiles to choose from?
This regimes positioning of this "theme" is at best ill advised. It is a smoke and mirrors illusion denigrating the senior club to no more than a stepping stone while looking to use the natural talent of young people purely for financial gain.
For anyone who understands the industry it is a distinctly unattractive approach. Indeed if I were an industry professional with the financial resources I would be crawling all over the current talent in the Charlton academy with a view to enticing the best to sign their first full professional contract with another club.
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of) Do you think Riga could sustain a season in the Championship? What happens when Riga goes on a bad run. Who do we get next. We all know the type of manager we'll get and there lies the problem.
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports. This is true and is what the club promised us again and again. Sadly we just won't get it. The board don't want to spend money bringing in decent players when they can play our youngsters for free. The same will happen again next year and we'll patch it up in January with the likes of Roger Johnson and Diego Poyet, neither of which will play again for the club and if that doesn't spell out how clueless this regime is to you then I'm not sure what will.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans Roland doesn't want someone like this. A UK based CEO with a knowledge of football would cost a lot more money and stand up to him a lot more than someone young with no football experience. Roland doesn't care about football experience, all he wants is someone that is cheap and will do what he tells them to do.
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start THE PITCH THE PITCH THE PITCH. He may have spent money on the pitch but are you really saying that another owner wouldn't have done this? I'm not even sure if we'd have been allowed to play another year on that pitch without major improvements. As far as the academy goes, it's great and everything but what use is it in league 1?
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money. That is something we all do want but it's not going to happen under this regime. So come down next match day and volunteer with CARD, fight for our club back.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
PS i am very English, London born and i repeat do not know anyone in the management team at the club. so please some of you stop the unfair abuse.
None of the above will happen with Roland as owner.
And most of us are not demanding spending obscene amounts of money to get in to the Premiership - look at what @Airman Brown says about midtable and financial stability, if we had that and had an owner/board that were good custodians of the club, then there would be no need for CARD.
The issue is that Charlton Athletic no longer exists as a club, but is a name of a subsidiary of the Duchatelet/Strapix FFP network, and it has a CEO that publically admits that they don't care about the history of the club because what happened before Roland doesn't matter (so therefore by extension to this the efforts that fans made in getting back to the Valley were not important).
By "we want our Charlton back", we want Charlton to once again have custodians who know about the club, know about the back breaking effort that fans have put in to get that club back home after the heartbreak of the nomadic existence of the 80s, understands how special to the fans the Valley is, and has the clubs best interests at heart rather than the interests of Strapix and the Network.
You only have to look at how Duchatelet treated Standard Liege to see that this is a person who does not have the best interests of the club at heart - to simplify things, it goes something like Liege made a profit, so Roland took £20M out of the club for himself because "I am the owner, it is my right to bank my profit". Roland leaves Standard Liege, and the club is lifted so wins a cup.
I've said this time and time again, compare Bill Kenwright with Roland Duchatelet. For years, Bill has listened to every offer tabled for Everton, and so when he invariably turned them all down, it's because they were not right for the club. Finally the right offer came in, and as Bill has Everton's best interests at heart knew this was the one to accept. Duchatelet refuses to meet investors or listen to offers - that is not the behavior of someone who has the best interests of the club at heart is it? Peter Varney's project in medway has backers with way more money than Duchatelet is worth, so for the sake of Charlton Athletic surely it was worth just tentatively hearing the offer?
But what you have to remember is that Duchatelet does not have the best interests of Charlton at heart, he has his own ego at heart instead. He is a failed politician, but has this desire to prove himself to be a visionary (see the CAST interview where he criticises people that do not buy in to his vision, such as accusing the protesting Liege fans of being unemployed people who have nothing better to do, from recent club statements he may well think the same thing about Charlton fans) who knew how to play the FFP system.
Of course, he wasn't visionary enough to see what would happen to Championship FFP. From statements made by Katrien Miere and Roland to the press about FFP and the Football League, we know that they are fuming and if you read between the lines, have pretty much accused the league of sabotage.
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I've pointed out where I disagree with you, as have others, but you get immense respect from me for what was a self-deprecating and genuinely funny line .
I would guess this is em so get your views across
Did this show up three times for you? It's only showing up once for me...
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership
3. The club sometimes make good signings-
...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK
and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid?
If you are genuine, I struggle with how you can put the following on one of your posts from yesterday: "Guðmundsson" and then today call him "Gummudeson"
I would not want to mis-represent what some of you are saying and i am obviously citing parts of what is posted and most of what you say is very opposed to my view but it is interesting to see
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership
4. some accept the new larger parachute payments are a problem - although to be fair most try and gloss over this 'elephant in the room'
5. roger johnson a 'solid championship player' was a poor signing- I AGREE
6. the TOXIC atmosphere at the club is probably not helping us sign promising youngsters, and definitely not POSITIVE for player morale. ( some of you claimed it has no impact but no-one has said it is having a positive impact)
7. DONT SELL ON YOUNG TALENT- a core aim of the campaign is acknowledged as being unrealistic in this day and age. and most agree that to attract the best we need to play them. Even more so now after Deli Alli.
Yes we can keep some young talent like the excellent JC but the truth is that's because he probably isn't quite good enough for the next step up. Remember for every Gomez and Lookman there will be one Solly (championship player only) and Cousins- who we can hold on to.
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
PS i am very English, London born and i repeat do not know anyone in the management team at the club. so please some of you stop the unfair abuse.
Ladies and Gentlemen, We're in danger of having a genuine discussion break out here.
...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK
and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid?
So this is taken out of context. When I was talking about good signings as opposed to Roger Johnson, I was speaking only of the January transfer window/February signings. I think there have been a lot of good signings under this regime. Diarra, Bauer, Igor, Kashi, and even Tony Watt, with his problems, was a decent signing and I think a club of our size and stature will sometimes have to gamble on talented yet flawed players. I'm saving the best for last, JBG, who I fancy both as a footballer and as a man with stern, chiseled Scandinavian looks. Much better than Danny Green.
My problem is starting the season with Diarra (injury prone throughout his career), Bauer (new to league), and Sarr (new to league, very raw) as the only center backs was a huge mistake. Same for up front, where we started with an injured Igor who hadn't had a preseason, Tony Watt and Mak, who were not suited well to playing with each other, and KAG who is young and raw and had to be thrown in at the deep end. Starting the season with three fit strikers, one of whom is 18, for a coach (Luzon) who likes to play 4-4-2 is utter madness. That could also apply to central midfield, where we started with Cousins (solid), Ba (new to league, raw), Kashi (new to league, unfortunate injury), JJ (aging). Yes, Diarra can also fill in there, but that would require taking away one of the three center backs. It's just not enough, and the combinations of players don't always add up together. This is something a Director of Football would do.
I think that KAG and Sarr could very well still come good, but they have been absolutely devastated by having too much too soon this season. I think Mak has been desperately short changed by now having a striker to play with who can stretch defenses and create space for him/win flick-ons. Because we have not brought in enough players with enough experience that suit the players we do have, I think we've made a lot of our signings look worse. Add that to the insane managerial changes (Fraeye) and it adds up to madness, it's a culture where as a player it's almost impossible to succeed because you're constantly being thrown in the deep end with another player being thrown in the deep end coached by a coach who has also just been thrown in the deep end.
@SDAddick I don't think size has anything to do with gambling on flawed yet talented players. Leeds and Manchester United gambled on Eric Cantona despite his issues, indeed Manchester United stuck with him after he did something that to quote my dear departed much loved Grandmother "I've always wanted to do".
Real Madrid took in Antonio Cassano. In fact, Cassano has been taken on by many big and medium large clubs.
Anelka and Ballotelli have played for a whose who of top clubs.
@SDAddick I don't think size has anything to do with gambling on flawed yet talented players. Leeds and Manchester United gambled on Eric Cantona despite his issues, indeed Manchester United stuck with him after he did something that to quote my dear departed much loved Grandmother "I've always wanted to do".
Real Madrid took in Antonio Cassano. In fact, Cassano has been taken on by many big and medium large clubs.
Anelka and Ballotelli have played for a whose who of top clubs.
True, but when they brought in Cassano, Madrid also had Raul, Guti, Ronaldo, and a host of other attacking players which meant that Cassano was not the only Galactico. Ballotelli had Tevez, Dzeko, and then Aguero at City. Anelka was a talisman at City and Bolton, but at Arsenal he had various other very good forwards with him, same with his time at Madrid, and when he joined Chelsea they had Drogba, and various wide attackers for the 4-3-3.
It's early and I can't remember exactly who was up front for United in the mid-90s (Yorke, Sherringham?), but hopefully you get my point. When these clubs signed raw, flawed players they had other experienced players around them to help ease them into the team.
Comments
That was absolutely not my experience when I was at The Valley during our promotion year. Football for a Fiver was home to Stevenage that year where he missed a hatful (he was in a poor run of form) before he eventually scored (I think, I remember Morro scored that day...also I think).
His shout was that Igor was the best since Bent. Not outrageous at all in my opinion. Yann would certainly be in contention, but I think it's a reasonable debate. Will be curious to see what Igor does in the run in if he stays fit. In terms of technique and movement, he'd certainly be ahead but he needs to show he can replicate his form from the start of last year. Fingers F*cking crossed.
Anyone involved in that transaction should apologise and put their own money in to cover the costs.
Awful in so many ways.
Half intelligible, second language trolls trying to defend the indefensible.
This really is the last bow from a failing regime, that has left a trail of destruction across Europe.
Never get an accountant to do something that requires INSPIRATION!
The thing that drove me mad was hearing Katrien saying we were over our wage budget back in September. Either they were paying over-inflated wages to players that were not contributing or the wage budget was not big enough. It's also probably the case that all the players that were out on loan (PP, Tucadean, Reza (before he returned) etc) were at least being part funded by us.
The playing squad has been completely mismanaged since day one. Selling our best players and replacing them with network non-entities was ridiculous, but after they spouted the nonsense that they underestimated the division and had learned lessons, the next opportunity they had to put it right, they failed to do so.
I'd also be keen to know who's idea it was to sign RoJo, Poyet and Rhys Williams. All three turned up together at a time when we were manager-less. None of the three had played enough football, and after Riga sent Williams back to Boro with his tail between his legs, the other two have barely featured at all. It's just another example of how this useless regime waste money.
Lastly, completely agree that at the start of the season, and even after two summer deadline day signings, the squad was desperately short on numbers, particularly in central defense and up front. This is what I was trying to allude to in my post, and it's what I consider to be absolutely obscene mismanagement of this, and any football club. The fact that when AB says "he," I don't know who he is talking about unless Roland himself signs the players. This really shouldn't be the case, but, *sigh* nothing surprises anymore. WA, your question of "whose idea is it" is the same thing. Who is signing these players? Or rather, who is scouting them, checking their fitness, their availability, how they fit into the squad in the short term and into the "vision" in the longer term. Who negotiates, who structures contracts again budgets, performance, etc.?
Although he has apparently come out against them in the past, I fear that our scouting is overly dependent on agents hocking their wares to the club, which is a stupid way to run a transfer policy. This is what a director of football and head of scouting should be doing. And if they do their jobs well, they potentially save a lot of money (as well as obviously improving the playing staff).
For those that don't see it really is a case of the emperor's new clothes.
For those that are being used to create divide and conquer on here and are paid to do so, it's time to resign, you don't work for anything that can be recognised as CAFC at the moment.
And for KM and RD themselves, you are utterly weird/unique.
1.Had the management spent the existing playing budget sensibly there wouldn't be a problem. It's unlikely we'd be better than mid-table, but that is not unreasonable.... AIRMAN BROWN
2. most agree that IGOR was and could still be a top player, although most think Kermorgant is better. Note though he is 34 and could NOT make it in the premiership
3. The club sometimes make good signings-
...should also be credit for bringing in Tex, Fanni, and Motta ....SD ADDOICK
and of course Gummudeson and Diarra - unless we think we should get rid?
4. some accept the new larger parachute payments are a problem - although to be fair most try and gloss over this 'elephant in the room'
5. roger johnson a 'solid championship player' was a poor signing- I AGREE
6. the TOXIC atmosphere at the club is probably not helping us sign promising youngsters, and definitely not POSITIVE for player morale. ( some of you claimed it has no impact but no-one has said it is having a positive impact)
7. DONT SELL ON YOUNG TALENT- a core aim of the campaign is acknowledged as being unrealistic in this day and age. and most agree that to attract the best we need to play them. Even more so now after Deli Alli.
Yes we can keep some young talent like the excellent JC but the truth is that's because he probably isn't quite good enough for the next step up. Remember for every Gomez and Lookman there will be one Solly (championship player only) and Cousins- who we can hold on to.
As I've said the club is being badly managed and needs a shake up particularly in how it engages with its critics, but unless someone out there wants to gamble £50m on 3 to 1 odds of scrapping into the premiership then i don't see the alternative to meeting RD halfway and looking for a compromise which involves
1. sticking long term with someone like RIGA - whose win ratio with us during his two stint's with us is excellent and whose tactical awareness is first class ( the change of tactics in the second half to up end Birmingham's counter attacking was superb and something that we all know Chris Powell wasn't capable of)
2. mixing up the signings a little with some VG home Championship players, not just relying 100% on kids and imports.
3. appointing a new UK based CEO- with a remit to win over the fans
4. us acknowledging that he has thrown a lot of money at the club - pitch ( we all remember the mud bath of the last set of british owners) , the academy etc and wages, and this is a good start
5. agreeing that we all want the same thing - a well run Championship club which plays great football, treats its fans with respect and doesn't irresponsibly burn other peoples money.
If we can get some stability based on the above then we may have a chance to entice new partners with deeper pockets and big visions and that could be good but if we don't we still have a decent club that we love.
PS i am very English, London born and i repeat do not know anyone in the management team at the club. so please some of you stop the unfair abuse.
I think I read some where that she deals with the contracts. I could be wrong and imagined this but the madness of the signings would support this for me.
However people have had there eyes open to theses issues for over a decade.
It was/ is beholden on new owners to complete due diligence in making any investment in the market. One thing is certain the new boy on the block does not get to change the rules as M Duchatelet will know after he arrogantly tried to merge Belgian and Dutch football. His ideas were rejected.
On what basis would you enter the UK market, where for over three decades there is an established track record of favouring the most powerful in the game, and not understand the industry rules. Whatever market intelligence his due diligence team gathered and interpreted they appear to have completely misread the data.
If the owner believes financial Armageddon is about to befall the entire football industry and he is just waiting it out he a) is ignoring the global attraction of the UK game b) will still need deeper and deeper pockets to survive in the meantime.
There is nothing new in any of this debate. If you come to the market you have to expect you are going to have to pay the going rate. If you are not prepared to do so then either do not pay the entrance fee or expect a world of hurt.
I addressed the principles of the financial support of Staprix NV in some detail elsewhere.
The espousal of the Duchatelet vision is wonderful but in the hands of those with no market experience it has been proved to be no more than the naïve ramblings of a complete novice. There is a reason they can put no substance behind the vision. They do not know how to make it work nor do they have the experience or skills to develop a Plan B.
The irony is they have spent money but managed the spend so poorly it has destroyed the fabric of the senior squad.
There is no point to referring to the occasional overseas success when the club is staring relegation in the face because they over 2yrs have failed to construct a viable senior squad. Individual successes in a team sport bring little reward.
The 8 permanent senior squad additions made this season before the January transfer window have contributed the following percentage of starts;
- Makienok (54%)
- Bauer (49%)
- Ba (33%)
- Bergdich (29%)
- Reza (26%)
- Kashki (23%)
- Sarr (23%)
- Cebellos (3%)
It is a risible return. In fact the return is so risible we have had to draft in a further 9 players to try and keep us up.
I happily acknowledge of those retained from last year Gudmondsson (90%), Diarra (67%) and Henderson (56%) have done well but Vetokele (15%) has been reduced, due to being overplayed last year, to a very limited role.
All before I even mention paying off Bikey, Parzysek, Moussa and Vaz Te, and shipping Dmitrovich, Tucudean and Watts (28%) to all parts East & West & North.
In terms of the academy master plan perhaps we could evaluate what this pathway to the Premier League actually looks like.
There have to date been 2 players who have travelled this path Gomez and Poyet. Poyet took his chance to leave in part because he was being positioned to go on loan to Liege. Hardly a ringing endorsement for the match day experience.
Cousins, Harriott and Solly were all established in the senior squad before the regime took control.
The academy production line is limited to Fox (90%), Lennon (38%) and recently Lookman (26%). Over a 2yr period these are hardly exceptional statistics.
Of the remainder Ahearne Grant (18%), Holmes Dennis (13%) and Kennedy (5%) have with the signing of an additional 9 players had the door slammed shut.
As to the proposed marketing ploy for the academy were I advising any youngster who was approached by a professional club academy indicating they were offering a pathway to their first team I would tell the youngster to look elsewhere.
It is a meaningless line. It was a nonsense statement in Dublin.
No responsible youth coach or academy professional would position such an opportunity until the lad had reached the age of signing his first professional contract.
Any seasoned professional would know in an industry where your prospects can be turned upside down in a week there are just too many pitfalls along the way.
The lower leagues are full of talented young professionals who despite their best endeavours did not make the grade.
In terms of selecting the right academy the quality of coaching, the coaching of life skills, the quality of academic or non footballing employment skills education would all be deciding factors.
It is a matter of pride the record of the academy staff at Charlton in these areas has long been up there with the best in the business.
The pathway to the first team would be of secondary importance and only come into play toward the end of the academy scholarship.
At which point his advisors should be looking at the quality & stability of the clubs senior coaching staff and the quality & stability of the senior squad playing staff to ensure it had the right infrastructure of experience, balance and quality to support the scholar in learning and developing his game.
On the basis of the clubs operating principles of the past 2yrs which in effect positions any young talent as merely a saleable asset I would explore all other options before allowing him to put his signature to any contract with Charlton under this regime.
Would you really submit your son to the carnage of 3 coaching team changes and 60 professionals passing through the clubs books in one season? Do you really think parents, agents and advisors will be cueing up to have the development of their young player in the hands of such an administration?
Do you think this is the best environment for a young player to progress? Do you think professionals across the industry look at the club and say that's where I want to be? Do you not think there will be better options and more stable profiles to choose from?
This regimes positioning of this "theme" is at best ill advised. It is a smoke and mirrors illusion denigrating the senior club to no more than a stepping stone while looking to use the natural talent of young people purely for financial gain.
For anyone who understands the industry it is a distinctly unattractive approach. Indeed if I were an industry professional with the financial resources I would be crawling all over the current talent in the Charlton academy with a view to enticing the best to sign their first full professional contract with another club.
And most of us are not demanding spending obscene amounts of money to get in to the Premiership - look at what @Airman Brown says about midtable and financial stability, if we had that and had an owner/board that were good custodians of the club, then there would be no need for CARD.
The issue is that Charlton Athletic no longer exists as a club, but is a name of a subsidiary of the Duchatelet/Strapix FFP network, and it has a CEO that publically admits that they don't care about the history of the club because what happened before Roland doesn't matter (so therefore by extension to this the efforts that fans made in getting back to the Valley were not important).
By "we want our Charlton back", we want Charlton to once again have custodians who know about the club, know about the back breaking effort that fans have put in to get that club back home after the heartbreak of the nomadic existence of the 80s, understands how special to the fans the Valley is, and has the clubs best interests at heart rather than the interests of Strapix and the Network.
You only have to look at how Duchatelet treated Standard Liege to see that this is a person who does not have the best interests of the club at heart - to simplify things, it goes something like Liege made a profit, so Roland took £20M out of the club for himself because "I am the owner, it is my right to bank my profit". Roland leaves Standard Liege, and the club is lifted so wins a cup.
I've said this time and time again, compare Bill Kenwright with Roland Duchatelet. For years, Bill has listened to every offer tabled for Everton, and so when he invariably turned them all down, it's because they were not right for the club. Finally the right offer came in, and as Bill has Everton's best interests at heart knew this was the one to accept. Duchatelet refuses to meet investors or listen to offers - that is not the behavior of someone who has the best interests of the club at heart is it? Peter Varney's project in medway has backers with way more money than Duchatelet is worth, so for the sake of Charlton Athletic surely it was worth just tentatively hearing the offer?
But what you have to remember is that Duchatelet does not have the best interests of Charlton at heart, he has his own ego at heart instead. He is a failed politician, but has this desire to prove himself to be a visionary (see the CAST interview where he criticises people that do not buy in to his vision, such as accusing the protesting Liege fans of being unemployed people who have nothing better to do, from recent club statements he may well think the same thing about Charlton fans) who knew how to play the FFP system.
Of course, he wasn't visionary enough to see what would happen to Championship FFP. From statements made by Katrien Miere and Roland to the press about FFP and the Football League, we know that they are fuming and if you read between the lines, have pretty much accused the league of sabotage.
Once for me....
Once for me...
It's not even close.
We're in danger of having a genuine discussion break out here.
So this is taken out of context. When I was talking about good signings as opposed to Roger Johnson, I was speaking only of the January transfer window/February signings. I think there have been a lot of good signings under this regime. Diarra, Bauer, Igor, Kashi, and even Tony Watt, with his problems, was a decent signing and I think a club of our size and stature will sometimes have to gamble on talented yet flawed players. I'm saving the best for last, JBG, who I fancy both as a footballer and as a man with stern, chiseled Scandinavian looks. Much better than Danny Green.
My problem is starting the season with Diarra (injury prone throughout his career), Bauer (new to league), and Sarr (new to league, very raw) as the only center backs was a huge mistake. Same for up front, where we started with an injured Igor who hadn't had a preseason, Tony Watt and Mak, who were not suited well to playing with each other, and KAG who is young and raw and had to be thrown in at the deep end. Starting the season with three fit strikers, one of whom is 18, for a coach (Luzon) who likes to play 4-4-2 is utter madness. That could also apply to central midfield, where we started with Cousins (solid), Ba (new to league, raw), Kashi (new to league, unfortunate injury), JJ (aging). Yes, Diarra can also fill in there, but that would require taking away one of the three center backs. It's just not enough, and the combinations of players don't always add up together. This is something a Director of Football would do.
I think that KAG and Sarr could very well still come good, but they have been absolutely devastated by having too much too soon this season. I think Mak has been desperately short changed by now having a striker to play with who can stretch defenses and create space for him/win flick-ons. Because we have not brought in enough players with enough experience that suit the players we do have, I think we've made a lot of our signings look worse. Add that to the insane managerial changes (Fraeye) and it adds up to madness, it's a culture where as a player it's almost impossible to succeed because you're constantly being thrown in the deep end with another player being thrown in the deep end coached by a coach who has also just been thrown in the deep end.
Real Madrid took in Antonio Cassano. In fact, Cassano has been taken on by many big and medium large clubs.
Anelka and Ballotelli have played for a whose who of top clubs.
It's early and I can't remember exactly who was up front for United in the mid-90s (Yorke, Sherringham?), but hopefully you get my point. When these clubs signed raw, flawed players they had other experienced players around them to help ease them into the team.