Personally the whole RD and KM battle at this moment in time is detracting from the real battle we have on our hands. The club are now starring relegation in the face and it has to be upto us fans to put aside all the demos and do what we as fans should do for the remaining games and get behind the team from the first minute in the remaining fixtures. Fulham will be the perfect place to start. Rather than turning up with a lame 1,000 and singing anti board songs we should turn up on mass and get behind the team in which is winnable game. Remember the FACup game at Fulham.Noise levels and passion in which we have to create for the team.The players and Riga need us and what goes on at board level is nothing to do with the players. Be proud of your team and help them out as much as we can in these remaining fixtures we are all in this together.
This is the kind of naive, daft simple-minded English football fan attiude that will not only increase our chances of relegation even further but also do damage to the further ambitions and successes of the team that stretch beyond just this season. If you haven't figured out yet that this team and club is in the situation it is, in no small part, due to the decisions and actions of the club over the past two years then you have clearly been watching another football club operate.
Haven't you figured out yet that you can sing as loud as you want and be as defiant in your support as you like but this team and this manager is not cut out for it? That's why we are where we are and why we can't turn it around, fans really are so easily fooled into thinking they count for so much aren't they? I agree the protests will result in very little ultimately too, which is why a boycott is inevitable for anyone who is truly a fan, but I know where I'd rather be in the meantime.
Some of you desperately need to wake up, accept relegation, stop banking on miracles and look at the bigger picture. The next 5 years, not just the next 5 months.
Personally the whole RD and KM battle at this moment in time is detracting from the real battle we have on our hands. The club are now starring relegation in the face and it has to be upto us fans to put aside all the demos and do what we as fans should do for the remaining games and get behind the team from the first minute in the remaining fixtures. Fulham will be the perfect place to start. Rather than turning up with a lame 1,000 and singing anti board songs we should turn up on mass and get behind the team in which is winnable game. Remember the FACup game at Fulham.Noise levels and passion in which we have to create for the team.The players and Riga need us and what goes on at board level is nothing to do with the players. Be proud of your team and help them out as much as we can in these remaining fixtures we are all in this together.
This is the kind of naive, daft simple-minded English football fan attiude that will not only increase our chances of relegation even further but also do damage to the further ambitions and successes of the team that stretch beyond just this season. If you haven't figured out yet that this team and club is in the situation it is, in no small part, due to the decisions and actions of the club over the past two years then you have clearly been watching another football club operate.
Haven't you figured out yet that you can sing as loud as you want and be as defiant in your support as you like but this team and this manager is not cut out for it? That's why we are where we are and why we can't turn it around, fans really are so easily fooled into thinking they count for so much aren't they? I agree the protests will result in very little ultimately too, which is why a boycott is inevitable for anyone who is truly a fan, but I know where I'd rather be in the meantime.
Some of you desperately need to wake up, accept relegation, stop banking on miracles and look at the bigger picture. The next 5 years, not just the next 5 months.
Personally the whole RD and KM battle at this moment in time is detracting from the real battle we have on our hands. The club are now starring relegation in the face and it has to be upto us fans to put aside all the demos and do what we as fans should do for the remaining games and get behind the team from the first minute in the remaining fixtures. Fulham will be the perfect place to start. Rather than turning up with a lame 1,000 and singing anti board songs we should turn up on mass and get behind the team in which is winnable game. Remember the FACup game at Fulham.Noise levels and passion in which we have to create for the team.The players and Riga need us and what goes on at board level is nothing to do with the players. Be proud of your team and help them out as much as we can in these remaining fixtures we are all in this together.
This is the kind of naive, daft simple-minded English football fan attiude that will not only increase our chances of relegation even further but also do damage to the further ambitions and successes of the team that stretch beyond just this season. If you haven't figured out yet that this team and club is in the situation it is, in no small part, due to the decisions and actions of the club over the past two years then you have clearly been watching another football club operate.
Haven't you figured out yet that you can sing as loud as you want and be as defiant in your support as you like but this team and this manager is not cut out for it? That's why we are where we are and why we can't turn it around, fans really are so easily fooled into thinking they count for so much aren't they? I agree the protests will result in very little ultimately too, which is why a boycott is inevitable for anyone who is truly a fan, but I know where I'd rather be in the meantime.
Some of you desperately need to wake up, accept relegation, stop banking on miracles and look at the bigger picture. The next 5 years, not just the next 5 months.
Loyal fan then yea
Define loyalty.
You support the team threw thick and thin no matter what. Start chucking your toys out your pram just because of an owner. 4 generations of my family over 100 years supporting this club. You do the just drop them. Chelsea Arsenal and Manchester United is the forward for you
I started going properly in league 1. Losses don't bother me in the slightest, I don't dig out any players and haven't called for a manager's head.
This is not simply spoilt fans, this is a megalomaniac taking the piss and not giving a fuck what happens. The sheer distain with which the fans are treated makes my blood boil. The PR disasters have become so regular that I don't even notice them anymore. We're seen as braindead idiots that should accept what we are given by our Lord and Saviour Duchatelet. We're an obstacle to be overcome, not part of the club and we are "weird" for feeling otherwise.
If we bend over and "get behind the boys" the season will be over and nothing will change as nobody protests during the summer. We will start next season and the same shit will happen all over again. If we stay up nothing will change because half the people protesting will be perfectly content until November/December. Riga will be sacked as the squad will be underfunded and undermanned, protests will begin again until a few journeyman are brought in, results improve and we go back round again.
The in ground protests are tame as it is, I can't see "stand up if you want them out" and a bit of paper making our players shit themselves.
One will have no impact as people will still go in before a game early I. Even kids or elder people. Would two work?? Maybe. Two thoughts here. If we are winning would people leave and if we are losing then so may have left already. Whistles..No thanks...throwing stuff on the pitch doable. If you were to walk out do it half time. This would cause maximum impact on the stewards to open.exits as.well as when she returns from having half time tea.and biscuits all the crowd have gone. Fans to switch to the West Lower and face her and sing at her throughout the game impairing her vision as well as embarrassing her in front of the other teams directors.
So that's your idea of supporting the team? Genius
No shit for brains what I would suggest as being active.
If you're going to call someone 'shit for brains' at least make some attempt to punctuate.
Personally the whole RD and KM battle at this moment in time is detracting from the real battle we have on our hands. The club are now starring relegation in the face and it has to be upto us fans to put aside all the demos and do what we as fans should do for the remaining games and get behind the team from the first minute in the remaining fixtures. Fulham will be the perfect place to start. Rather than turning up with a lame 1,000 and singing anti board songs we should turn up on mass and get behind the team in which is winnable game. Remember the FACup game at Fulham.Noise levels and passion in which we have to create for the team.The players and Riga need us and what goes on at board level is nothing to do with the players. Be proud of your team and help them out as much as we can in these remaining fixtures we are all in this together.
This is the kind of naive, daft simple-minded English football fan attiude that will not only increase our chances of relegation even further but also do damage to the further ambitions and successes of the team that stretch beyond just this season. If you haven't figured out yet that this team and club is in the situation it is, in no small part, due to the decisions and actions of the club over the past two years then you have clearly been watching another football club operate.
Haven't you figured out yet that you can sing as loud as you want and be as defiant in your support as you like but this team and this manager is not cut out for it? That's why we are where we are and why we can't turn it around, fans really are so easily fooled into thinking they count for so much aren't they? I agree the protests will result in very little ultimately too, which is why a boycott is inevitable for anyone who is truly a fan, but I know where I'd rather be in the meantime.
Some of you desperately need to wake up, accept relegation, stop banking on miracles and look at the bigger picture. The next 5 years, not just the next 5 months.
Personally the whole RD and KM battle at this moment in time is detracting from the real battle we have on our hands. The club are now starring relegation in the face and it has to be upto us fans to put aside all the demos and do what we as fans should do for the remaining games and get behind the team from the first minute in the remaining fixtures. Fulham will be the perfect place to start. Rather than turning up with a lame 1,000 and singing anti board songs we should turn up on mass and get behind the team in which is winnable game. Remember the FACup game at Fulham.Noise levels and passion in which we have to create for the team.The players and Riga need us and what goes on at board level is nothing to do with the players. Be proud of your team and help them out as much as we can in these remaining fixtures we are all in this together.
This is the kind of naive, daft simple-minded English football fan attiude that will not only increase our chances of relegation even further but also do damage to the further ambitions and successes of the team that stretch beyond just this season. If you haven't figured out yet that this team and club is in the situation it is, in no small part, due to the decisions and actions of the club over the past two years then you have clearly been watching another football club operate.
Haven't you figured out yet that you can sing as loud as you want and be as defiant in your support as you like but this team and this manager is not cut out for it? That's why we are where we are and why we can't turn it around, fans really are so easily fooled into thinking they count for so much aren't they? I agree the protests will result in very little ultimately too, which is why a boycott is inevitable for anyone who is truly a fan, but I know where I'd rather be in the meantime.
Some of you desperately need to wake up, accept relegation, stop banking on miracles and look at the bigger picture. The next 5 years, not just the next 5 months.
Loyal fan then yea
Define loyalty.
You support the team threw thick and thin no matter what. Start chucking your toys out your pram just because of an owner. 4 generations of my family over 100 years supporting this club. You do the just drop them. Chelsea Arsenal and Manchester United is the forward for you
For me, my toys are being chucked out, as you say, just because of an owner.... because with that owner, I firmly believe, there won't be a club to support in the future (much less 100 years).
I am amazed at the comments being posted concerning the support of the team.
Alan Curbishleys' recent comments on the protests are undiluted double standards. He would not have tolerated any of the events of the past 2yrs at the club. He sued West Ham for constructive dismissal on the basis of precisely the level of executive interference which has been commonplace in SE7.
AC will have seen the comments of Chris Powell a man he respected as his leader on the pitch yet he expects us to stand idly by while we witness the results of such gross incompetence. Pretty poor stuff AC.
How on earth are people able to protest in any meaningful way at the end of the season when in all likelihood the main targets will be happily able to ensconce themselves in far away lands.
Pure and utter nonsense.
With regard to the main debate on this thread of course crowds can lift team performances when they actually see a performance worth lifting. The momentum can only come from the field of play. Supporters come to a game to be entertained by the team and respond to the performance they see.
It is logistically impossible to lift a team if they can barely string more than two or three passes together or rarely effect any meaningful attack on the opposing goal. You would be starting and stopping every 15 seconds.
It has long been common practice for away sides to take control of the ball, slow the game down specifically to quieten the home crowd. In our case they do not have to take control of the ball we endlessly keep giving it back.
This whole crowd support issue is being grossly overstated. Professional footballers across the entire football pyramid spend 50% of their lives playing in opposition arena where you can absolutely guarantee 90% of the crowd will almost certainly not be supporting them in any way shape or form.
Why is it today we always appear to be looking for an excuse while endlessly looking over our shoulder for somebody, anybody else to take the lead? What is it with this club today where nobody can take any responsibility for anything? It seems endemic to the whole club on and off the field. It beggars belief.
Professional footballers across the entire football pyramid are required to perform to their best of their ability, as part of a team, as part of a club, for themselves and yes for those who have paid for the privilege of watching them.
That's it - that's the deal. If you do not have the "cojones" for the business then do not take the pay cheque, find your level, live long and be happy.
Our players are being selected to play at this level (one of the top six divisions in Europe and beyond).
They will have attained this level by competing with literally hundreds if not thousands of others whose football careers will have "fallen by the wayside" and who will now be plying their trade at the lower levels of the game.
If they do not have the ability, the maturity or personality and quite frankly the professionalism to apply that level of competition to focus on the job in hand with or without the crowd support they should not be donning the shirt.
I accept the protests can be a distraction. I accept the personal vitriol from some can be upsetting but the answer is simple. You pick your head up, look around you to see the 10 other blokes in your kit putting in their shift needing you to do precisely the same. There is no place for shrinking violets.
We are not talking about a group of children so can people please stop looking for endless excuses, stop looking to point the finger at anyone other than those who have to take their responsibility to perform - the players. If they make a decent fist of doing their job the rest will take care of itself.
We are where are today on the back of multiple heavy reversals including 0-5, 0-6 defeats having won just 5 games all season. We have won one league game at home since August.
People have run out of patience. People are weary of the dross, weary of the endless excuses while struggling quite literally to identify with a team who has already used 38 players this season and seemingly are about to add 3 more to the mix. So scattergun has been the recruitment approach, the team gives every impression of having exactly the same problem.
Sod the Fraeye, Duchatelet line "only 11 players can play" (who involved in professional team sport comes out with such blatant drivel) we have had enough players for nigh on 4 teams.
All this while we have danced our way through 6 coaching changes in 2yrs and lived the pain of their unending failure with an equally endless commentary of excuses to accompany us on the journey.
Against such statistics the crowd are the least of our problems.
Only under Dowie, Pardew and impecunious days of Parkinson have we ever approached such levels of instability, of ineptitude and a revolving door policy which defies description and look where it took us.
This is not the Charlton I grew up with and have supported for over 50yrs.
At least most of those protesting or giving the "verbal treatment" are still turning up wanting to support the team. So inept has been the end product there are many thousands, some of whom having paid for the full season, who have walked away. More and more will follow.
I respect the players because they are playing at a level I could not attain. I respect many are very new to this ultra competitive championship environment. I respect they and their head coaches have been badly let down by the appalling lack of support from this regime.
It however matters not. It is likely all of us will experience similar challenges at some point in our working lives. You can either sink or swim. We all have the same choice you either get your head down, get on with the job and deliver the results despite all the b******s or give in, walk away and fail.
That's where you earn your money!
The squad, the team, the players are the only people who can take ownership of the problems and do their job, no one else can do it for them.
Great post Grapevine. The rot set in on the pitch, not the terraces. The performances lead the reaction. After Hull at home, the fans came expecting more great matches, and prepared to back the team. It was the appalling drop off after Hull that lead to the fans turning against the regime. I can say that in my opinion, Fox and Mak have been unfairly singled out. You can only ask players to give what they are capable of. Fox in my opinion gives 100% (and Mak, apart from one match has also tried). If they are not up to the standard of the championship, why are they on the pitch? They don't pick themselves? There are other players who have NOT given 100% or even a reasonable facsimile of it, bu these two are attacked for not having ability. They can only do their best. But asking the fans to not protest until the summer (and then suggesting on one post we should flood the lower west to block katriens view) is putting the cart before the horse. We're going down, and that has nothing to do with the protests. Bolton have nearly caught us, and look at the turmoil their club is in. Ours is regularly cited as the epitomy of mismanagement in the national media, yet the suggestion is if we all turn up and sing for ninety minutes (even the west stand?), the players will start to play great football. I acknowlege that the fabns have their part to play, but sorry, this whole post is just blaming the fans, and even the daftest ostrich out there could see there is more to our plight than that.
Great post Grapevine. The rot set in on the pitch, not the terraces. The performances lead the reaction. After Hull at home, the fans came expecting more great matches, and prepared to back the team. It was the appalling drop off after Hull that lead to the fans turning against the regime. I can say that in my opinion, Fox and Mak have been unfairly singled out. You can only ask players to give what they are capable of. Fox in my opinion gives 100% (and Mak, apart from one match has also tried). If they are not up to the standard of the championship, why are they on the pitch? They don't pick themselves? There are other players who have NOT given 100% or even a reasonable facsimile of it, bu these two are attacked for not having ability. They can only do their best. But asking the fans to not protest until the summer (and then suggesting on one post we should flood the lower west to block katriens view) is putting the cart before the horse. We're going down, and that has nothing to do with the protests. Bolton have nearly caught us, and look at the turmoil their club is in. Ours is regularly cited as the epitomy of mismanagement in the national media, yet the suggestion is if we all turn up and sing for ninety minutes (even the west stand?), the players will start to play great football. I acknowlege that the fabns have their part to play, but sorry, this whole post is just blaming the fans, and even the daftest ostrich out there could see there is more to our plight than that.
At no point has this post blamed fans. The thread started is that we should get behind the team and encourage them, give them that extra 10% that could turn defeats into draws draws into victories. With regards to your comment about the West Stand lower once again please read back through the history and I was asked my suggestions on what action there should be because some of the demonstrations are not and won't make any impact.
Grapevine please can you wait for KM in Floyd Road and ask her these questions. Would love to see her reaction! You are also spot on with the AC comments.
@Grapevine49 fantastic post that says it all. Just to reiterate what others have said, I so wish you bump into KM and even manage to get these brilliant posts across to the players.
We need more fans like you, we need players and people at the club to have the same understanding and views as you.
TBF I think sides of the house are guilty of rounding on the other which achieves nothing really. The support can affect a game, Cardiff 5-4, Cov away in the cup 3-2 and Utd 3-3 being examples I remember and still make me smile.
I am very anti regime (or at the very least demanding a change to the incompetent CEO) but I am still on the edge of my seat when we are either clinging on at the back or going forward. I genuinely think nearly all of those whether in 'red and white' or 'black and white' are the same.
Protests or no protests we've had idiots on players' backs for years. Of course it's true that the crowd can influence a game, but I think it's overstated - and certainly the club can never use it as an excuse. I mean, how do we ever win away if the crowd is so intrinsic to the team's ability to perform? Or are they saying the hostility of opposition fans has no impact but the few hundred in Charlton shirts make all the difference? Nonsense.
There has been very little in terms of protest inside the ground. The sad truth is that no matter how up for it the fans are, if dross is being served up on the pitch it's bloody hard to be bothered to keep singing enthusiastically throughout the game.
But what message are you getting across...handing out masks and stickers. Does that really drive a message home.
It says that our club is being run by puppets and liars. Honestly can't believe it's that hard to work out.
Herein lies the ultimate ethical dilemma. If it was a successful club being run by puppets and liars would you still protest. Slater and Jiminez misled us about the amount of money they were going to bring into the club. Were they puppets of the moneyman Cash.......? Yes they made better decisions whilst they had money but puppets and liars - possibly.
I protest only because of the failure to learn from their mistakes shows poor management skills. A fact which they continue to repeat. If they learned from their mistakes then I doubt that people would be protesting.
Out with poor management
They weren't puppets, they were funded. Their problems started when the funding stopped, not because they were being told what to do. Liars? Surely no less than this lot.
That said, Powell papered over a lot of the cracks by making us feel it was our club again. By the time the spivs left, there was no point in protests because they wanted out more than we wanted them out.
Anywyay, fundamental point is that results on the pitch are rarely the outcome of poor management. Jimenez wasn't everyone's cup of tea to say the least but he knew the business inside out and gave Powell what was needed to get out of League One. He may well have produced a Premier League side if he had the funds.
This lot don't have a clue about football, but even more seriously they don't care because they've said very clearly football is not their priority. That's primarily why I'm protesting, because the wellbeing of Charlton is not safe in their hands.
Great post Grapevine. The rot set in on the pitch, not the terraces. The performances lead the reaction. After Hull at home, the fans came expecting more great matches, and prepared to back the team. It was the appalling drop off after Hull that lead to the fans turning against the regime. I can say that in my opinion, Fox and Mak have been unfairly singled out. You can only ask players to give what they are capable of. Fox in my opinion gives 100% (and Mak, apart from one match has also tried). If they are not up to the standard of the championship, why are they on the pitch? They don't pick themselves? There are other players who have NOT given 100% or even a reasonable facsimile of it, bu these two are attacked for not having ability. They can only do their best. But asking the fans to not protest until the summer (and then suggesting on one post we should flood the lower west to block katriens view) is putting the cart before the horse. We're going down, and that has nothing to do with the protests. Bolton have nearly caught us, and look at the turmoil their club is in. Ours is regularly cited as the epitomy of mismanagement in the national media, yet the suggestion is if we all turn up and sing for ninety minutes (even the west stand?), the players will start to play great football. I acknowlege that the fabns have their part to play, but sorry, this whole post is just blaming the fans, and even the daftest ostrich out there could see there is more to our plight than that.
At no point has this post blamed fans. The thread started is that we should get behind the team and encourage them, give them that extra 10% that could turn defeats into draws draws into victories. With regards to your comment about the West Stand lower once again please read back through the history and I was asked my suggestions on what action there should be because some of the demonstrations are not and won't make any impact.
Yeah, okay, but you are advocating protests during the game, while the thread you started advocates getting behind the team in that protests are not conducive. I'm not digging you out on this - in another season the principal is a sound one, and I dislike the shit handed to Fox, who at least tries. But for me the bigger picture is the regime. This experiment will begin again in the summer. In league 1. On a lower budget. And with all the same crap. RD has stated his philosophy. It is not going to change, and while it would be great if we got behind the team for 90 minutes every match, there are issues which will cloud that, and anyway, a 1970's Stretford end roar would'ntcoax this lot now, let alone whst's left of the Valley faithfull.
This thread makes very sad reading. They say that hatred is a very destructive emotion, and that very hatred of the current regime seems to be spilling into the supporter base, tearing us apart and dividing us into opposing camps. I believe I have far more emotional attachment to Charlton than KM and RD will ever have, and guess who will feel the hurt more if we get relegated? Well, not them for sure! That also probably applies to most of us on here and relegation will hurt us all, more than the owners, and more than most of the players who will simply move on. So yes, of course we want to hurt the regime, but we have to be careful not to hurt ourselves even more, and that sadly seems to be happening. As usual Grapevine is spot on with his analysis, but personally I'd have liked to have seen a temporary line drawn under everything that has gone on this season (commencing with the Blackburn game) to give Riga the best possible chance of keeping us up. We picked up a credible draw in that game following a disastrous few months culminating in the slaughters at Hudds and Hull. We then backed that up with a terrific win at Rotherham that no one was expecting. I personally believe Riga and the players deserved to then run out at the Valley to face the crucial fixture against Bristol with the home crowd buzzing and urging them on from the very first minute. Instead they were confronted with a crowd where the most noise was saved for jeering Fox off the pitch. Riga was too diplomatic to say it, but I imagine he and the team were expecting far more from us that day and following the Rotherham performance, I think they were entitled to expect better.
This thread makes very sad reading. They say that hatred is a very destructive emotion, and that very hatred of the current regime seems to be spilling into the supporter base, tearing us apart and dividing us into opposing camps. I believe I have far more emotional attachment to Charlton than KM and RD will ever have, and guess who will feel the hurt more if we get relegated? Well, not them for sure! That also probably applies to most of us on here and relegation will hurt us all, more than the owners, and more than most of the players who will simply move on. So yes, of course we want to hurt the regime, but we have to be careful not to hurt ourselves even more, and that sadly seems to be happening. As usual Grapevine is spot on with his analysis, but personally I'd have liked to have seen a temporary line drawn under everything that has gone on this season (commencing with the Blackburn game) to give Riga the best possible chance of keeping us up. We picked up a credible draw in that game following a disastrous few months culminating in the slaughters at Hudds and Hull. We then backed that up with a terrific win at Rotherham that no one was expecting. I personally believe Riga and the players deserved to then run out at the Valley to face the crucial fixture against Bristol with the home crowd buzzing and urging them on from the very first minute. Instead they were confronted with a crowd where the most noise was saved for jeering Fox off the pitch. Riga was too diplomatic to say it, but I imagine he and the team were expecting far more from us that day and following the Rotherham performance, I think they were entitled to expect better.
As @Grapevine49 explained you can't cheer when there's nothing to cheer about. You can't exactly cheer when a player takes an air shot or passes constantly to the opposition. I thought on Saturday the crowd went over and above to cheer whenever they saw some desire and effort.
If we had puppets and a weird owner and were top of the league then the puppets would have been making the right decisions.
We are used to being mugged by owners, but that just leads to resentment and bitching, that is just background noise and much less important than what is happening on the field. When the owner and management are actually affecting what's happening on the field through sheer incompetence, arrogance and lacking of respect for the club, it's fans and its history, sorry, it's a whole new ball game. Thinking that we can change anything by cheering for the team when there's nothing to cheer for and feeling sorry for the players' feelings is bullshit.
My nephew was a professional footballer and i can tell you that the fear of getting pelters from the crowd was an incentive to go out and do what you were paid for, to give 100% and not bottle it. If you melt under that pressure, sorry, you should find another job, it's what sorts the men from the boys.
This thread makes very sad reading. They say that hatred is a very destructive emotion, and that very hatred of the current regime seems to be spilling into the supporter base, tearing us apart and dividing us into opposing camps. I believe I have far more emotional attachment to Charlton than KM and RD will ever have, and guess who will feel the hurt more if we get relegated? Well, not them for sure! That also probably applies to most of us on here and relegation will hurt us all, more than the owners, and more than most of the players who will simply move on. So yes, of course we want to hurt the regime, but we have to be careful not to hurt ourselves even more, and that sadly seems to be happening. As usual Grapevine is spot on with his analysis, but personally I'd have liked to have seen a temporary line drawn under everything that has gone on this season (commencing with the Blackburn game) to give Riga the best possible chance of keeping us up. We picked up a credible draw in that game following a disastrous few months culminating in the slaughters at Hudds and Hull. We then backed that up with a terrific win at Rotherham that no one was expecting. I personally believe Riga and the players deserved to then run out at the Valley to face the crucial fixture against Bristol with the home crowd buzzing and urging them on from the very first minute. Instead they were confronted with a crowd where the most noise was saved for jeering Fox off the pitch. Riga was too diplomatic to say it, but I imagine he and the team were expecting far more from us that day and following the Rotherham performance, I think they were entitled to expect better.
As @Grapevine49 explained you can't cheer when there's nothing to cheer about. You can't exactly cheer when a player takes an air shot or passes constantly to the opposition. I thought on Saturday the crowd went over and above to cheer whenever they saw some desire and effort.
If we had puppets and a weird owner and were top of the league then the puppets would have been making the right decisions.
We are used to being mugged by owners, but that just leads to resentment and bitching, that is just background noise and much less important than what is happening on the field. When the owner and management are actually affecting what's happening on the field through sheer incompetence, arrogance and lacking of respect for the club, it's fans and its history, sorry, it's a whole new ball game. Thinking that we can change anything by cheering for the team when there's nothing to cheer for and feeling sorry for the players' feelings is bullshit.
My nephew was a professional footballer and i can tell you that the fear of getting pelters from the crowd was an incentive to go out and do what you were paid for, to give 100% and not bottle it. If you melt under that pressure, sorry, you should find another job, it's what sorts the men from the boys.
The Bristol contingent out sang and out cheered the Charlton supporters for the entire game, yet the only thing that separated the teams was a small nudge in the back and a penalty. If they can do it for their relegation threatened team, we should for ours, no excuses. Even if we are playing poorly and there is no action to cheer, a few loud choruses of "come on you reds" or similar might have helped, as it has many times in the past, instead it was like a morgue. I'm making no excuses whatsoever for the regime if you read my post properly. You correctly blame the regime for affecting what is happening on the pitch, so why then take it out on the players and have no sympathy for them? For example it's not Morgan Fox's fault that there is no left back cover to replace him with. At most other clubs an out of form player gets withdrawn for a while. It's like asking you or I to do our job with our hands tied behind our back. Our midfield has been non existent for much of the season yet the rest of the team is expected to score goals and get results. Yes one or two of them may have been guilty of not giving 100% at times which is very wrong, but I can kind of understand why, same as if I had to do my job for six months with my hands tied behind my back, eventually I'd get pissed off with it and not give my best.
Does shouting 'come on Morgan' when he has made an error count as digging him out?
For me it's partially encouragement partially digging out but I guess it sounds supporting, not as good as 'keep it up Morgan' but you can't chant that after every time he shanks the ball into the crowd.
While I have shouted 'close him down Morgan', 'put it in quicker fox'
I have never, and would never, boo a player on a team I was supporting. Have never seen the point, I don't think it makes players play better, the opposite most of the time.
Also, ironic cheering when a player has a good touch...what's the problem with good old fashioned cheering? Well done mate, fantastic, good one.
Rather than 'way hey he touched it, fuck me I never thought I'd see the day.'
Storm the boardroom room tie the bstds up blow torches and pliers until sign the mgmt of club over to us and demand two shit chalets comes next game or we won't realease km cahones and muzza,
Comments
4 generations of my family over 100 years supporting this club. You do the just drop them.
Chelsea Arsenal and Manchester United is the forward for you
You only support them away though, right?
Mind of my own as well.
This is not simply spoilt fans, this is a megalomaniac taking the piss and not giving a fuck what happens. The sheer distain with which the fans are treated makes my blood boil. The PR disasters have become so regular that I don't even notice them anymore. We're seen as braindead idiots that should accept what we are given by our Lord and Saviour Duchatelet. We're an obstacle to be overcome, not part of the club and we are "weird" for feeling otherwise.
If we bend over and "get behind the boys" the season will be over and nothing will change as nobody protests during the summer. We will start next season and the same shit will happen all over again. If we stay up nothing will change because half the people protesting will be perfectly content until November/December.
Riga will be sacked as the squad will be underfunded and undermanned, protests will begin again until a few journeyman are brought in, results improve and we go back round again.
The in ground protests are tame as it is, I can't see "stand up if you want them out" and a bit of paper making our players shit themselves.
Alan Curbishleys' recent comments on the protests are undiluted double standards. He would not have tolerated any of the events of the past 2yrs at the club. He sued West Ham for constructive dismissal on the basis of precisely the level of executive interference which has been commonplace in SE7.
AC will have seen the comments of Chris Powell a man he respected as his leader on the pitch yet he expects us to stand idly by while we witness the results of such gross incompetence. Pretty poor stuff AC.
How on earth are people able to protest in any meaningful way at the end of the season when in all likelihood the main targets will be happily able to ensconce themselves in far away lands.
Pure and utter nonsense.
With regard to the main debate on this thread of course crowds can lift team performances when they actually see a performance worth lifting. The momentum can only come from the field of play. Supporters come to a game to be entertained by the team and respond to the performance they see.
It is logistically impossible to lift a team if they can barely string more than two or three passes together or rarely effect any meaningful attack on the opposing goal. You would be starting and stopping every 15 seconds.
It has long been common practice for away sides to take control of the ball, slow the game down specifically to quieten the home crowd. In our case they do not have to take control of the ball we endlessly keep giving it back.
This whole crowd support issue is being grossly overstated. Professional footballers across the entire football pyramid spend 50% of their lives playing in opposition arena where you can absolutely guarantee 90% of the crowd will almost certainly not be supporting them in any way shape or form.
Why is it today we always appear to be looking for an excuse while endlessly looking over our shoulder for somebody, anybody else to take the lead? What is it with this club today where nobody can take any responsibility for anything? It seems endemic to the whole club on and off the field. It beggars belief.
Professional footballers across the entire football pyramid are required to perform to their best of their ability, as part of a team, as part of a club, for themselves and yes for those who have paid for the privilege of watching them.
That's it - that's the deal. If you do not have the "cojones" for the business then do not take the pay cheque, find your level, live long and be happy.
Our players are being selected to play at this level (one of the top six divisions in Europe and beyond).
They will have attained this level by competing with literally hundreds if not thousands of others whose football careers will have "fallen by the wayside" and who will now be plying their trade at the lower levels of the game.
If they do not have the ability, the maturity or personality and quite frankly the professionalism to apply that level of competition to focus on the job in hand with or without the crowd support they should not be donning the shirt.
I accept the protests can be a distraction. I accept the personal vitriol from some can be upsetting but the answer is simple. You pick your head up, look around you to see the 10 other blokes in your kit putting in their shift needing you to do precisely the same. There is no place for shrinking violets.
We are not talking about a group of children so can people please stop looking for endless excuses, stop looking to point the finger at anyone other than those who have to take their responsibility to perform - the players. If they make a decent fist of doing their job the rest will take care of itself.
We are where are today on the back of multiple heavy reversals including 0-5, 0-6 defeats having won just 5 games all season. We have won one league game at home since August.
People have run out of patience. People are weary of the dross, weary of the endless excuses while struggling quite literally to identify with a team who has already used 38 players this season and seemingly are about to add 3 more to the mix. So scattergun has been the recruitment approach, the team gives every impression of having exactly the same problem.
Sod the Fraeye, Duchatelet line "only 11 players can play" (who involved in professional team sport comes out with such blatant drivel) we have had enough players for nigh on 4 teams.
All this while we have danced our way through 6 coaching changes in 2yrs and lived the pain of their unending failure with an equally endless commentary of excuses to accompany us on the journey.
Against such statistics the crowd are the least of our problems.
Only under Dowie, Pardew and impecunious days of Parkinson have we ever approached such levels of instability, of ineptitude and a revolving door policy which defies description and look where it took us.
This is not the Charlton I grew up with and have supported for over 50yrs.
At least most of those protesting or giving the "verbal treatment" are still turning up wanting to support the team. So inept has been the end product there are many thousands, some of whom having paid for the full season, who have walked away. More and more will follow.
I respect the players because they are playing at a level I could not attain. I respect many are very new to this ultra competitive championship environment. I respect they and their head coaches have been badly let down by the appalling lack of support from this regime.
It however matters not. It is likely all of us will experience similar challenges at some point in our working lives. You can either sink or swim. We all have the same choice you either get your head down, get on with the job and deliver the results despite all the b******s or give in, walk away and fail.
That's where you earn your money!
The squad, the team, the players are the only people who can take ownership of the problems and do their job, no one else can do it for them.
Well said Grapevine, couldn't have put it better myself, well not in so many words anyway
But asking the fans to not protest until the summer (and then suggesting on one post we should flood the lower west to block katriens view) is putting the cart before the horse. We're going down, and that has nothing to do with the protests. Bolton have nearly caught us, and look at the turmoil their club is in. Ours is regularly cited as the epitomy of mismanagement in the national media, yet the suggestion is if we all turn up and sing for ninety minutes (even the west stand?), the players will start to play great football. I acknowlege that the fabns have their part to play, but sorry, this whole post is just blaming the fans, and even the daftest ostrich out there could see there is more to our plight than that.
With regards to your comment about the West Stand lower once again please read back through the history and I was asked my suggestions on what action there should be because some of the demonstrations are not and won't make any impact.
( This is NOT a post about Carter's little problem )
We need more fans like you, we need players and people at the club to have the same understanding and views as you.
Well done again.
There has been very little in terms of protest inside the ground. The sad truth is that no matter how up for it the fans are, if dross is being served up on the pitch it's bloody hard to be bothered to keep singing enthusiastically throughout the game.
The Valley acoustics don't help either.
That said, Powell papered over a lot of the cracks by making us feel it was our club again. By the time the spivs left, there was no point in protests because they wanted out more than we wanted them out.
Anywyay, fundamental point is that results on the pitch are rarely the outcome of poor management. Jimenez wasn't everyone's cup of tea to say the least but he knew the business inside out and gave Powell what was needed to get out of League One. He may well have produced a Premier League side if he had the funds.
This lot don't have a clue about football, but even more seriously they don't care because they've said very clearly football is not their priority. That's primarily why I'm protesting, because the wellbeing of Charlton is not safe in their hands.
As usual Grapevine is spot on with his analysis, but personally I'd have liked to have seen a temporary line drawn under everything that has gone on this season (commencing with the Blackburn game) to give Riga the best possible chance of keeping us up. We picked up a credible draw in that game following a disastrous few months culminating in the slaughters at Hudds and Hull. We then backed that up with a terrific win at Rotherham that no one was expecting. I personally believe Riga and the players deserved to then run out at the Valley to face the crucial fixture against Bristol with the home crowd buzzing and urging them on from the very first minute. Instead they were confronted with a crowd where the most noise was saved for jeering Fox off the pitch. Riga was too diplomatic to say it, but I imagine he and the team were expecting far more from us that day and following the Rotherham performance, I think they were entitled to expect better.
If we had puppets and a weird owner and were top of the league then the puppets would have been making the right decisions.
We are used to being mugged by owners, but that just leads to resentment and bitching, that is just background noise and much less important than what is happening on the field. When the owner and management are actually affecting what's happening on the field through sheer incompetence, arrogance and lacking of respect for the club, it's fans and its history, sorry, it's a whole new ball game. Thinking that we can change anything by cheering for the team when there's nothing to cheer for and feeling sorry for the players' feelings is bullshit.
My nephew was a professional footballer and i can tell you that the fear of getting pelters from the crowd was an incentive to go out and do what you were paid for, to give 100% and not bottle it. If you melt under that pressure, sorry, you should find another job, it's what sorts the men from the boys.
It's like asking you or I to do our job with our hands tied behind our back. Our midfield has been non existent for much of the season yet the rest of the team is expected to score goals and get results. Yes one or two of them may have been guilty of not giving 100% at times which is very wrong, but I can kind of understand why, same as if I had to do my job for six months with my hands tied behind my back, eventually I'd get pissed off with it and not give my best.
For me it's partially encouragement partially digging out but I guess it sounds supporting, not as good as 'keep it up Morgan' but you can't chant that after every time he shanks the ball into the crowd.
While I have shouted 'close him down Morgan', 'put it in quicker fox'
I have never, and would never, boo a player on a team I was supporting. Have never seen the point, I don't think it makes players play better, the opposite most of the time.
Also, ironic cheering when a player has a good touch...what's the problem with good old fashioned cheering? Well done mate, fantastic, good one.
Rather than 'way hey he touched it, fuck me I never thought I'd see the day.'
Get him to sign it over job done
Not hard really