If this is just to be a defensive display with Meire deflecting off the criticism then it's a pointless exercise. I really hope that it's not going to be that kind of meeting however and I would like to see the fans group members involved ask some very awkward questions and push for some proper responses.
If this is broadcast live on CAFC Player, or even better the free Youtube channel, so everyone can watch and listen if not participate, then this is indeed a positive step.
If this is NOT the case then I would hope ALL of those invited to attend would decline the invite. We are one, whether we are there or not.
The trust is the biggest and most representative group that exists, it is open to all - putting it on a par with some of the other groups that attend the FF, never mind random people off the database who may or may not have anything to say, is disrespectful and designed to diminish it. I would suggest a pre-meet for whoever is invited to offset the club's continuing divide and rule tactic.
Will we be told who is invited randomly? Also the fans forum is an outdated concept,overseas,independent train travellers,etc how many people do they represent & how do they communicate with the fans they represent.
The FF has representatives on it from East Kent Addicks that have, something like, 400 members. Those members will be represented, in some way, as they have all been emailed (I assume all of them have as I have) and asked what they would like asked and or discussed.
I'd be interested to know if the other groups that are 'representing' fans have done the same.
I also find it a little unnerving that all those that think the 'ordinary' fans (that 'don't have a clue') shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this meeting are those involved with or with close links to those groups that, apparently, know more about football, Charlton and strategic planning than the rest of us do!
Maybe inviting random fans is a PR stunt. The whole meeting is a PR event. Anyone that thinks this meeting hasn't been called because those running the club are concerned about the fans reaction to the most recent PR is clearly on Rothko's Dunce List.
What i want to know is who is meant to represent me & possibly a majority of fans who are not in any of these supporters groups,who do i contact?
Any opportunity to meet face to face with KM at this time is a good thing. As far as the Trust is concerned the fact we will be represented is also a good thing. However this is not the meeting format that we have been working hard to get for the Trust. Chelsea Trust meet with Bruce Buck, and Spurs Trust meet with Daniel Levy every 6-8 weeks. However in both cases they took 3-4 years ( longer than the existence of CAST) to get those meetings started. They happen regularly because things change quickly in football, and in the mood among fans (compare between the Woolwich meet and mid March this year for example).
So this one off meeting is welcome because it happens soon, and we will learn something from it. It's not going to be enough on its own, CAST know that, and we are working on that basis. We see the opportunity for public protest provided by the Ipswich game, but as said above, four weeks is a long time in RD land, and that's why at the meeting last night we asked for our members to trust us over the next 2-3 weeks, and not to push us to make public statements for the sake of it.
BTW at the meet @Weegie Addick revealed that in the last survey ( only just completed but largely responded before Luzon was sacked) 80% asked us to continue the process of seeking meaningful dialogue with the Club. Weegie agreed that we will do a quick update survey on that, so that we can be clear whether or not the latest events have turned that on its head, and we will of course take our lead from that. Y
I need to make sure that I get my point across. Especially with so many narrow minded people that don't listen to those that don't agree with them very often, dear.
It feels we are pretty much exactly where we were 9 months ago.
Things turning sour, the supporters collectively on the verge of progressing discontent from individual grumbles to something more co-ordinated. Then, the instant reaction was to draft in a teenage interviewer, and to hastily organise a (very-controlled) VIP meeting. This time it is to get some figures in the programme and to hotchpotch a Q+A event.
Personally, I think the ongoing rebuttal to directly engage in with the Supporters Trust is just completely and utterly nonsensical. Unless you are prejudiced by dislike of individuals involved or the collective, I genuinely can’t see how anyone can see any different. We are routinely told now that football is a business, and everyone knows the importance to a business of maintaining a good relationship with your customers (unless you are CAFC or South Eastern). Here you have an organised, educated group representing a significant amount of CAFC’s ‘customers’. The Club should be falling over themselves to try and engage with this group, not the other way around. It is just so wrong (imo).
As for this hastily scrambled Q+A. On the positive side, it does prove the Club a) has an awareness of discontent, and b) is reactive, and c) it does give some opportunity for issues to be raised with (almost) the right people and for them to provide responses.
However, the Clubs actions at the start of the year when trying to look back objectively now, were reactive; short-term measures to head off the discontent at the time. As the form picked up and mood improved, no real follow-through was seen beyond that point (culminating with where we are now).
The cynical part of me thinks there is particular concern about the possibility and impact of protests, particularly for the Ipswich game, and we are again in a period where the approach is not ‘what we can do to address things for the better going forward’, but ‘what can we do to nip this in the bud’. A wider Q+A lends the opportunity for much less detailed scrutiny of issues, comeback to responses etc as the process will be encouraged to move on (imo).
And the randomly selected audience part is just bizarre. If you invited 50 people off Charlton’s database (taking into account location, age, other responsibilities, availability, interest etc) if they wanted to attend a Q+A midweek at The Valley, for one reason or another, you’d probably get around 48 rejections. And how many are we talking? 5? 20? 100? All very vague, and my suspicion would be that the approach to widen is an attempt to dilute proceedings.
However, I’ll add that my cynicism may prove unfair, but it is has been brought about by a rising level of distrust. It may well prove to be a very effective and promising event, and may just be the start in a series of measures and actions that the Club continue to reunite with supporters.
Let’s see what those actions are or whether this is just another lip-service attempt.
I need to make sure that I get my point across. Especially with so many narrow minded people that don't listen to those that don't agree with them very often, dear.
OK Dear. I guess its a bit like life, you can choose from a number of reps, which is more than most people get in the UK and you don't have to pay a cent (pretty sure membership of the groups concerned is not required)
Would it not just be a good idea to let the meeting happen, see what the outcome is via feedback from those attending and then praise/criticise accordingly. Much of the discussion on here has been about who should be at the meeting and why. The meeting is now happening and the outcome may determine the next stage for protest/contentment. Most CAFC fans don't care about representation anyway as was proved by the low numbers who voted for the fans Director back in the day. They just want a team to cheer on Saturdays. Those that are interested need to be united if more action is required.
Would it not just be a good idea to let the meeting happen, see what the outcome is via feedback from those attending and then praise/criticise accordingly. Much of the discussion on here has been about who should be at the meeting and why. The meeting is now happening and the outcome may determine the next stage for protest/contentment. Most CAFC fans don't care about representation anyway as was proved by the low numbers who voted for the fans Director back in the day. They just want a team to cheer on Saturdays. Those that are interested need to be united if more action is required.
Would it not just be a good idea to let the meeting happen, see what the outcome is via feedback from those attending and then praise/criticise accordingly. Much of the discussion on here has been about who should be at the meeting and why. The meeting is now happening and the outcome may determine the next stage for protest/contentment. Most CAFC fans don't care about representation anyway as was proved by the low numbers who voted for the fans Director back in the day. They just want a team to cheer on Saturdays. Those that are interested need to be united if more action is required.
Every supporter wants their team to cheer on a Saturday. That's the point. Some are just happy to have their tummies rubbed as they wait to see if it happens, others know this regime including Miere and Murray are rotten to the core and hence only their removal can guarantee that team to cheer. Lots are in between.
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think that's the point AFKA, the meeting has to be held first because the Trust has the mandate for dialogue.
If ...as many of us suspect ...it is ineffectual, there is still time to arrange action for the Ipswich game.
I share your cynicism that they have timed this fan 'get-together' to nip any action in the bud. But there is time for both.
Surely they are not stupid enough to think that kicking the can down the road is going to work for much longer. They must realise that the fans are no longer prepared to accept a model that has been proved to be a failure. This is a situation that needs a cure rather than a band aid and unless they take positive action to rectify the core problems, these ugly situations will keep reoccurring until the fans stop coming altogether.
I think that's the point AFKA, the meeting has to be held first because the Trust has the mandate for dialogue.
If ...as many of us suspect ...it is ineffectual, there is still time to arrange action for the Ipswich game.
I share your cynicism that they have timed this fan 'get-together' to nip any action in the bud. But there is time for both.
Surely they are not stupid enough to think that kicking the can down the road is going to work for much longer. They must realise that the fans are no longer prepared to accept a model that has been proved to be a failure. This is a situation that needs a cure rather than a band aid and unless they take positive action to rectify the core problems, these ugly situations will keep reoccurring until the fans stop coming altogether.
Stupid? No.
Arrogant or not even interested because 'they know better'? Possibly, as RD displayed in his comments about Standard fans some time back.
He has a plan and it matters not what we think as it is not our plan ...he doesn't need our input nor, it would appear, does he want it.
This will probably be confirmed to some vague extent at the meeting with KM/RM and then the real work will begin from our side in some form of action ...but it won't be easy and it won't be quick.
Then again, perhaps KM now realises that we have reached an impasse and it's time to work together. Unlikely based on track record but we shall see.
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
Comments
We are one, whether we are there or not.
So this one off meeting is welcome because it happens soon, and we will learn something from it. It's not going to be enough on its own, CAST know that, and we are working on that basis. We see the opportunity for public protest provided by the Ipswich game, but as said above, four weeks is a long time in RD land, and that's why at the meeting last night we asked for our members to trust us over the next 2-3 weeks, and not to push us to make public statements for the sake of it.
BTW at the meet @Weegie Addick revealed that in the last survey ( only just completed but largely responded before Luzon was sacked) 80% asked us to continue the process of seeking meaningful dialogue with the Club. Weegie agreed that we will do a quick update survey on that, so that we can be clear whether or not the latest events have turned that on its head, and we will of course take our lead from that. Y
Things turning sour, the supporters collectively on the verge of progressing discontent from individual grumbles to something more co-ordinated. Then, the instant reaction was to draft in a teenage interviewer, and to hastily organise a (very-controlled) VIP meeting. This time it is to get some figures in the programme and to hotchpotch a Q+A event.
Personally, I think the ongoing rebuttal to directly engage in with the Supporters Trust is just completely and utterly nonsensical. Unless you are prejudiced by dislike of individuals involved or the collective, I genuinely can’t see how anyone can see any different. We are routinely told now that football is a business, and everyone knows the importance to a business of maintaining a good relationship with your customers (unless you are CAFC or South Eastern). Here you have an organised, educated group representing a significant amount of CAFC’s ‘customers’. The Club should be falling over themselves to try and engage with this group, not the other way around. It is just so wrong (imo).
As for this hastily scrambled Q+A. On the positive side, it does prove the Club a) has an awareness of discontent, and b) is reactive, and c) it does give some opportunity for issues to be raised with (almost) the right people and for them to provide responses.
However, the Clubs actions at the start of the year when trying to look back objectively now, were reactive; short-term measures to head off the discontent at the time. As the form picked up and mood improved, no real follow-through was seen beyond that point (culminating with where we are now).
The cynical part of me thinks there is particular concern about the possibility and impact of protests, particularly for the Ipswich game, and we are again in a period where the approach is not ‘what we can do to address things for the better going forward’, but ‘what can we do to nip this in the bud’. A wider Q+A lends the opportunity for much less detailed scrutiny of issues, comeback to responses etc as the process will be encouraged to move on (imo).
And the randomly selected audience part is just bizarre. If you invited 50 people off Charlton’s database (taking into account location, age, other responsibilities, availability, interest etc) if they wanted to attend a Q+A midweek at The Valley, for one reason or another, you’d probably get around 48 rejections. And how many are we talking? 5? 20? 100? All very vague, and my suspicion would be that the approach to widen is an attempt to dilute proceedings.
However, I’ll add that my cynicism may prove unfair, but it is has been brought about by a rising level of distrust. It may well prove to be a very effective and promising event, and may just be the start in a series of measures and actions that the Club continue to reunite with supporters.
Let’s see what those actions are or whether this is just another lip-service attempt.
Much of the discussion on here has been about who should be at the meeting and why.
The meeting is now happening and the outcome may determine the next stage for protest/contentment.
Most CAFC fans don't care about representation anyway as was proved by the low numbers who voted for the fans Director back in the day. They just want a team to cheer on Saturdays. Those that are interested need to be united if more action is required.
If ...as many of us suspect ...it is ineffectual, there is still time to arrange action for the Ipswich game.
I share your cynicism that they have timed this fan 'get-together' to nip any action in the bud. But there is time for both.
Well who ever is there, I hope they do precisely this.
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
Would that be a good thing or just "we've been here before"?
They're in for a hell of a grilling.
Arrogant or not even interested because 'they know better'? Possibly, as RD displayed in his comments about Standard fans some time back.
He has a plan and it matters not what we think as it is not our plan ...he doesn't need our input nor, it would appear, does he want it.
This will probably be confirmed to some vague extent at the meeting with KM/RM and then the real work will begin from our side in some form of action ...but it won't be easy and it won't be quick.
Then again, perhaps KM now realises that we have reached an impasse and it's time to work together. Unlikely based on track record but we shall see.
Do you also suggest the members 'the Fans Forum' have been asking for direct dialogue of this sort?