Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think it's obvious there are many very intelligent and informed people outside the various groups and both on and off Charlton Life. The issue is whether selecting people at "random" - and I guarantee you it won't be that anyway - would be likely to identify any of them.
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think it's obvious there are many very intelligent and informed people outside the various groups and both on and off Charlton Life. The issue is whether selecting people at "random" - and I guarantee you it won't be that anyway - would be likely to identify any of them.
so do you think it'll be people already known to the club or some extremely selective "random" to up the chances of the attendees just being happy to be there?
So how would you feel if there was a meeting planned between KM and someone from the Trust only?
Would that be a good thing or just "we've been here before"?
depends what the agenda was I guess, are you suggesting this is something 'new' then, and not just a rerun of the VIP meeting?
Do you also suggest the members 'the Fans Forum' have been asking for direct dialogue of this sort?
So are you suggesting, Raz, that because it's just a rinse and repeat that has always failed that we, you, me, the Trust et al should decline the invitation?
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think it's obvious there are many very intelligent and informed people outside the various groups and both on and off Charlton Life. The issue is whether selecting people at "random" - and I guarantee you it won't be that anyway - would be likely to identify any of them.
so do you think it'll be people already known to the club or some extremely selective "random" to up the chances of the attendees just being happy to be there?
I just think that any names that come up randomly which don't suit the club's purpose will be discarded.
@PragueAddick and I have just swapped a private message, which I hope has clarified any confusion between us.
Just to be clear...I am not having a go at anyone or their right to be involved in this. I was hoping that I recognised the efforts of everyone over the years and the on-going efforts of the Trust and FF and any other group who do what they can to look after the interests of our club and supporters.
My personal preference has always been to support efforts from the sidelines, a bit like the club too, simply because of my aversion to what I always see as internal politics overtaking agendas. Not always, but too often I'm my opinion.
By the same token, I would also not dismiss individual supporters who may feel exactly the same as I and that was the point I was making.
Hope we can all - and I include KM and RM in that - get something meaningful out of this.
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think it's obvious there are many very intelligent and informed people outside the various groups and both on and off Charlton Life. The issue is whether selecting people at "random" - and I guarantee you it won't be that anyway - would be likely to identify any of them.
so do you think it'll be people already known to the club or some extremely selective "random" to up the chances of the attendees just being happy to be there?
I just think that any names that come up randomly which don't suit the club's purpose will be discarded.
Perhaps stipulate when accepting (or not) the invitation that the club may randomly select a number of supporters from their database and that the FF can also select a number of 'random' supporters. Does one corruption cancel out the other or double it?
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think it's obvious there are many very intelligent and informed people outside the various groups and both on and off Charlton Life. The issue is whether selecting people at "random" - and I guarantee you it won't be that anyway - would be likely to identify any of them.
so do you think it'll be people already known to the club or some extremely selective "random" to up the chances of the attendees just being happy to be there?
I just think that any names that come up randomly which don't suit the club's purpose will be discarded.
surely only a very, very small percentage of people involved in the FF/trust would be known to the club and it would be likely that the key players would be going anyway.
Well...that escalated quickly from my last post!! I'm sure there's a pic out there somewhere for that!
I have just spent he afternoon in a meeting with two very large law firms on the brink of merging. My little brain, unfortunately, may struggle to understand the issues at stake here and perhaps I should turn down any potential invitation to be a "random supporter". I should probably not be reviewing docs for Prague/all of us anymore when it comes to the LLDC and OS either!
I have spent 30 years in one organisation and I abhor internal politics and avoid them like the plague. Probably explains why I only got so far, but it's far enough for me. For the same reason, I have avoided fan groups and other "clubs, associations, political groups and cliques"! Does that mean that I am uninterested and ignorant? (that's rhetorical by the way, so don't bother responding).
It has already been pointed out that there is a lot of arrogance and assumptions in some posts on here. It's wonderful that we have "active" supporters. I applaud them and I always have done. We wouldn't have seen some of the wonderful times recently without people like @Airman Brown and many others and I do not disregard the efforts that @razil put in for the Trust and certainly not @PragueAddick.
In the same way, I would be grateful if people did not disregard and put down supporters who are not members of any active group. With the best will in the world, they outnumber you by many thousands. Try seeing if they get involved in this and the outcomes and listen to them before dismissing them out of hand.
I think it's obvious there are many very intelligent and informed people outside the various groups and both on and off Charlton Life. The issue is whether selecting people at "random" - and I guarantee you it won't be that anyway - would be likely to identify any of them.
so do you think it'll be people already known to the club or some extremely selective "random" to up the chances of the attendees just being happy to be there?
I just think that any names that come up randomly which don't suit the club's purpose will be discarded.
surely only a very, very small percentage of people involved in the FF/trust would be known to the club and it would be likely that the key players would be going anyway.
Back to the point that many key players are members of the trust board, which gets the same FF representation as Syd Cheesright - with no disrespect intended to Syd.
Imagine if KM and RM were facing a press conference of hard nosed journalists. That is what the meeting should be like, not a chat over tea and biscuits where polite enquiries are matched with trite platitudes.
It's got nothing to do with democracy, and little to do with who asks the questions, it's only about getting answers that are important to some. Arguing over who asks the questions on the grounds you don't like them or you didn't join their club is pathetic. I am sure the combined groups will welcome questions from everyone to sift them down into a representative list. Stop frigging bickering and do something useful.
Divide and rule needs to be countered not embraced.
There's a skill in framing questions that don't allow the "guest" of the hook.
The likes of David Frost wouldn't say to KM - "The supporters want RD to appoint an English manager with experience of the Championship what do you say to them?" It just allows a Belgian to waffle.
A better way to put KM on the spot would be - "Over two season you fired 5 and appointed 4 managers. None of your managers, including yourself, has any experience of football at this level. What does this say about RD's management, apart from it's a failure and he repeatedly makes the same mistakes and has he admitted he needs to change"?.
I would suggest the invited reps and fans put a list of questions to a journalist to frame them in such a way that they cannot be ducked and allow cross examination.
Could I please ever so humbly point out that no-one from the board of CAS Trust has suggested that the Trust should have any more representatives at this meeting than any other group ?
Could I please ever so humbly point out that no-one from the board of CAS Trust has suggested that the Trust should have any more representatives at this meeting than any other group ?
Could I please ever so humbly point out that no-one from the board of CAS Trust has suggested that the Trust should have any more representatives at this meeting than any other group ?
True and no one not from it either.
Let's just leave it after this, but your opening gambit on this included the following...
...but why randomly selected fans need to be invited who knows...
...that seemed very much like you felt that the humble lone supporter should be excluded and it's just this sort of loose phrase that winds people up and sees a "them" and "us" culture develop amongst fans.
Let's try and cut that out and concentrate on getting the right questions ready and potential rebuttals for when this session does take place.
I will put together a set of questions on the clubs scouting network. I am interested to know the set-up and the scouting network for future opponents and players. From the list, who is best placed to ask the questions? Please inbox me if you want to ask the questions on my behalf.
In the meantime, don't let this lot off the hook. Keep up the pressure with a visible protest at the Ipswich game. The way to get at them, is ridicule rather than abuse.
I will put together a set of questions on the clubs scouting network. I am interested to know the set-up and the scouting network for future opponents and players. From the list, who is best placed to ask the questions? Please inbox me if you want to ask the questions on my behalf.
In the meantime, don't let this lot off the hook. Keep up the pressure with a visible protest at the Ipswich game. The way to get at them, is ridicule rather than abuse.
Sorry Tutt but it is time for abuse and loads of it
If KM did happen to read this forum and witness the bickering among a supposed united front of Charlton supporters she'd laugh herself silly. The vainglory, and self - aggrandisement of too many people on here is already undermining a near impossible task before it has even begun to be afforded any serious consideration. Get over yourselves.
Comments
I think Airman Brown should hold the meeting with Meire and Murray. Everybody else can sit and watch.
Just to be clear...I am not having a go at anyone or their right to be involved in this. I was hoping that I recognised the efforts of everyone over the years and the on-going efforts of the Trust and FF and any other group who do what they can to look after the interests of our club and supporters.
My personal preference has always been to support efforts from the sidelines, a bit like the club too, simply because of my aversion to what I always see as internal politics overtaking agendas. Not always, but too often I'm my opinion.
By the same token, I would also not dismiss individual supporters who may feel exactly the same as I and that was the point I was making.
Hope we can all - and I include KM and RM in that - get something meaningful out of this.
It's got nothing to do with democracy, and little to do with who asks the questions, it's only about getting answers that are important to some. Arguing over who asks the questions on the grounds you don't like them or you didn't join their club is pathetic.
I am sure the combined groups will welcome questions from everyone to sift them down into a representative list. Stop frigging bickering and do something useful.
Divide and rule needs to be countered not embraced.
There's a skill in framing questions that don't allow the "guest" of the hook.
The likes of David Frost wouldn't say to KM - "The supporters want RD to appoint an English manager with experience of the Championship what do you say to them?" It just allows a Belgian to waffle.
A better way to put KM on the spot would be - "Over two season you fired 5 and appointed 4 managers. None of your managers, including yourself, has any experience of football at this level. What does this say about RD's management, apart from it's a failure and he repeatedly makes the same mistakes and has he admitted he needs to change"?.
I would suggest the invited reps and fans put a list of questions to a journalist to frame them in such a way that they cannot be ducked and allow cross examination.
Why should the trust get more representation than them ?
If it is a numbers thing then send AFKA as he has more members than any other group.
Let's try and cut that out and concentrate on getting the right questions ready and potential rebuttals for when this session does take place.
Please inbox me if you want to ask the questions on my behalf.
In the meantime, don't let this lot off the hook. Keep up the pressure with a visible protest at the Ipswich game. The way to get at them, is ridicule rather than abuse.
Sorry, completely random thought that has nothing to do with this thread.
The vainglory, and self - aggrandisement of too many people on here is already undermining a near impossible task before it has even begun to be afforded any serious consideration.
Get over yourselves.