The club clearly can't communicate with their fans, they clearly can't communicate with each other.
Who else can be blamed other than the person in charge, don't get how anyone can defend KM on this one, total incompetence with the added lies to try and deflect the blame.
Obviously not aware of the huge queues for tickets at the north stand then? The pissed off families visiting for the first time with young kids restless waiting in line for nearly an hour. That's the way to encourage new fans to come back. I explained to a couple of families its not always such a shambles and hopefully they believed me and will be back with what they witnessed on the pitch. To top it off after finally getting tickets with nearly an hour queueing the north upper scanners wouldn't work so we had stewards all looking at each other not knowing what to do. They finally got a scanner working and then we had a steward running around shouting he had someone's ticket not knowing who they got it off, pretty comical stuff. Big improvement needed and the apology is flakey to say the least.
Don't know if it is the full story but on the CA facebook page someone is saying that someone went down today and asked for a refund or compensation for missing QPR. The club staff said no and that they only option is he wasn't happy was a full refund for the whole ST (his and a couple of others) so he said yes.
So that's three ST sales lost. Brilliant customer service if true.
If true then that's crass. Makes a mockery of the "building a better tomorrow together" motto.
Thanks for taking the time to reply,it was a measured response considering the tone of my post... I was mindful of using the word resentment rather than the lazy and inappropriate bitter because I'm sad to say that is how some of your comments appear which can result in undermining your legitimate and constructive criticism at times. You don't accept the description of 'constant sniping', but I'm afraid the weight of evidence sometimes suggests otherwise.
The most recent concerning KM,for example: Otherwise it's really not good enough to be seen on Sky sitting on the silly sofa and interviewing children in the car park,but fail to stand up and take responsibility when things go badly wrong,but she must know that.
Of course she does,but sitting on a silly sofa doesn't preclude her failing to stand up and take responsibility as you have accused her of.It's a futile point.There seems to be divided opinion on here regarding apologies in the programme and on the club website.If there was an apology, then I don't see what more could have been done at the time;were it not the case,I agree.Poor show.
Then this: Had Miere made a statement on Friday which understated the position and it had gone much worse than it did,her position would now be close to untenable.
But she didn't make a statement on Friday and it didn't get much worse than it did.And with whom would her position have become untenable? RD is the only person in that scenario,or any scenario for that matter, and it's not hard to imagine the depth of his concern over the issue. Charlton isn't exempt from the vagaries of business;things go wrong,people look to apportion blame and workers get disgruntled. I believe that KM will do her utmost to resolve the issue; she doesn't strike me as a lead-swinger or someone who shirks responsibility.But I don't know;neither of us does. Anyway,on a personal level,it's none of my damn business how you conduct yourself,it's a football forum and nothing more, and don't imagine I'm unaware of how you were instrumental in getting us get back to The Valley.I am, and like many others, I appreciate it.
No problem discussing it. Grapevine's excellent post covers KM's position.
The club's early public response was not proportionate to the issue. It did not reassure those affected. It did not correctly identify the problem. The chief executive did not take responsibility and she was not seen to lead. She did not play a visible part on Saturday, which she could have done simply by being seen monitoring the situation (unless others know different), whereas she has been keen to appear in frivolous contexts. These things matter, including to staff who need to feel supported. Indeed she appeared to arrive at The Valley later than 12.30pm, well after the other staff. We saw her.
It all led to KM and the club being lampooned on p11 of The Sun. A statement on Friday about data migration, even unattributed, would have prevented the paper implying she is a liar. The fact is people outside the club knew from the outset that it was a data migration issue. It was obvious from the range of issues. Someone with knowledge in that area who used to work at the club explained in detail to me how the problems arose - without even talking to staff. Either the club knew this and was lying to fans, or it didn't and it was negligent, because it was very obvious. That impinges on trust.
Now we have the statement that I anticipated this morning, with the apology in KM's name. That's the right thing to do and she's done it. I won't quibble over the detail. She's no doubt hard working, personable and wants to do her best for the club. Staff like her. But the outcomes that are her responsibility are not good enough at the moment. The buck stops with her. That's all there is to it, and when the problems are about communication, it cannot come down to resources.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
The point was made to me by my IT correspondent that once you identify the problem is with the data migration you should be able to correct it and identify the issues that have been caused. This would explain staff giving figures. IF they knew at the start of the week they could potentially have done another mail out and resolved the problems without any need for fans to collect (I'll defer to anyone who knows better!), but I'm not convinced they worked it out until it was very clear tickets were not going to land in the right places.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
You mean you can't trust Johnny Foreigner ?
I didn't say that.
Each nation has its own traditions, customs and ways of 'operating', whether in business or life in general. They may only be small differences, but they're there. Just look at the situation with Vincent Tan at Cardiff.
Ours are fading into the ether as we become more and more 'Americanised'. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but the idea of customer service is certainly one of those areas where those in the service industry have upped their game over the past 10-15 years - and I don't just mean saying 'have a nice day' when you've served someone.
Because of that, our expectations of first class service from all our 'providers' is taken for granted. Indeed, there are plenty of threads on here from people complaining about the poor service they've received. It's also why virtually every company employs over paid consultants () to drill home to their staff how to provide 'golden' customer service in a consistent and fair manner.
From experience, these kind of service levels are not the same as ours on the near continent. Not far off, but I believe we are still ahead with our 'customer experience' albeit still miles behind the Americans.
Also, any nation who can make such fantastic chips and then smothers them in mayonnaise, surely have something not quite right with their National psyche.
The ticket office manager is not foreign, she was the one who told me it was all Royal Mail's fault.
No - she was told to tell you it was the Royal Mail's fault.
I'm not saying it's because our owner and CEO are 'foreign' - it matters not one jot to me what nationality they are. I'm just trying to reason why the response has been what it has, when so many people on here could have suggested a far better way to deal with the situation - both before and after it happened.
Might you consider penning something of that nature to send to KM ?
My view, for what it's worth, is that KM requires A N Other, a COO perhaps, to whom she could delegate certain duties, or work with in overseeing the respective department managers. IMHO she has too much on her plate to effectively cover all the bases.
I see the mess as a problem of timeline, so I suppose it is a matter of bad planning. None of the mess regarding apologies or explanations or Sun stories or whatever need have happened if the club had planned all this techno stuff early enough. The apology says tickets were sent out just over a week before the season actually starts, and only after that did migration or whatever problems became evident. No failsafe in place, no plan B, and no prior testing of the system before it became live. Is this because of poor advice from Green4, or simply the schoolboy error of not sorting one of the crucial cornerstones of the practice of a professional football club in good time? Time is one of the factors managers have to take into account when managing anything isn't it? Combined with where your priorities are, and if there are sufficient resources to do the job? Given the cock up, I reckon, as I have said before, that supporters are not compensated with vouchers for fourteen chips that ain't, but allowed free entry to a home cup tie to make up for the messing about. Most businesses, even the railways, will compensate for delays, so ought Charlton.
Might you consider penning something of that nature to send to KM ?
My view, for what it's worth, is that KM requires A N Other, a COO perhaps, to whom she could delegate certain duties, or work with in overseeing the respective department managers. IMHO she has too much on her plate to effectively cover all the bases.
Don't know if it is the full story but on the CA facebook page someone is saying that someone went down today and asked for a refund or compensation for missing QPR. The club staff said no and that they only option is he wasn't happy was a full refund for the whole ST (his and a couple of others) so he said yes.
So that's three ST sales lost. Brilliant customer service if true.
Clueless if true.
Though the club is not excused for poor customer service and a big phuck up, those fans wanting an entire refund on season tickets is mental, just because they can't have 1 game refunded because they chose not to collect the tickets prior to the game.
Shitty fans if true.
They didn't have to miss QPR, they could have gone down to the club on match day and collected before the game.
Would they have been inconvenienced by minor delays, yes certainly.
Would they have seen both goals, yes unless they popped to the bog.
Would they have wanted a refund for missing a quarter or half of a game, very unlikely.
They only want a refund because they missed a win.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
OR they believed they had gone out and after further investigations, realised this was not the case.
Don't know if it is the full story but on the CA facebook page someone is saying that someone went down today and asked for a refund or compensation for missing QPR. The club staff said no and that they only option is he wasn't happy was a full refund for the whole ST (his and a couple of others) so he said yes.
So that's three ST sales lost. Brilliant customer service if true.
Clueless if true.
Though the club is not excused for poor customer service and a big phuck up, those fans wanting an entire refund on season tickets is mental, just because they can't have 1 game refunded because they chose not to collect the tickets prior to the game.
Shitty fans if true.
They didn't have to miss QPR, they could have gone down to the club on match day and collected before the game.
Would they have been inconvenienced by minor delays, yes certainly.
Would they have seen both goals, yes unless they popped to the bog.
Would they have wanted a refund for missing a quarter or half of a game, very unlikely.
They only want a refund because they missed a win.
They didn't want a full refund - they wanted the club to compensate them for missing the QPR game. As that wasn't offered, they seem to have accepted a full refund to which they were certainly entitled. The club had failed to supply what it had sold, so that issue is straightforward and would have been supported by local trading standards. It's not the responsibility of the customer to ensure goods or services are supplied.
No doubt some people will feel this doesn't make them worthy supporters, but it's their choice. It's a crazy argument to attack people for not accepting poor service. In any event, I suspect they are making a point and will be back.
Ultimately this is about the contradiction between being just a business and being a club. Fans queue to overcome problems they didn't cause because of their loyalty over and above the transaction itself - that's why the "fans must accept that the owner decides" line is so poisonous. If you openly reduce the relationship to a financial transaction you are dismissing that loyalty as meaningless, whereas it is actually fundamental.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
OR they believed they had gone out and after further investigations, realised this was not the case.
That would be more worrying if true (which I doubt). The chances of the Royal Mail losing an entire truck load of letters was always very slim, especially in light of the known data integrity issues - the club would have seen examples of season tickets with incorrect names, addresses and seat numbers before last Tuesday when they made their initial statement - it wouldn't have taken a genius to link these data issues with the 1500 missing letters, especially given the tiny odds of the alternative.
Don't know if it is the full story but on the CA facebook page someone is saying that someone went down today and asked for a refund or compensation for missing QPR. The club staff said no and that they only option is he wasn't happy was a full refund for the whole ST (his and a couple of others) so he said yes.
So that's three ST sales lost. Brilliant customer service if true.
And as a result TWWW has been forced to go back to the seats he cleaned and piss on three of them to make up for the loss of three ST holders.
I also heard that the lad who received his ST from JJ and Henderson as part of the 100 seat campaign, didn't get his actual ST at all.
Don't know if it is the full story but on the CA facebook page someone is saying that someone went down today and asked for a refund or compensation for missing QPR. The club staff said no and that they only option is he wasn't happy was a full refund for the whole ST (his and a couple of others) so he said yes.
So that's three ST sales lost. Brilliant customer service if true.
And as a result TWWW has been forced to go back to the seats he cleaned and piss on three of them to make up for the loss of three ST holders. I also heard that the lad who received his ST from JJ and Henderson as part of the 100 seat campaign, didn't get his actual ST at all.
That really deserves a 'beyond parody'.
I'm gonna call BS on that one, unless you have a link or something to support it...
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
OR they believed they had gone out and after further investigations, realised this was not the case.
That would be more worrying if true (which I doubt). The chances of the Royal Mail losing an entire truck load of letters was always very slim, especially in light of the known data integrity issues - the club would have seen examples of season tickets with incorrect names, addresses and seat numbers before last Tuesday when they made their initial statement - it wouldn't have taken a genius to link these data issues with the 1500 missing letters, especially given the tiny odds of the alternative.
I would estimate that 1500 letters containing a credit card = a sack load rather than a truck load. But I'm no expert.
It's a truck load until the truck rolls over then it becomes a shed load. Then when someone clears up the mess it can become a sack load. Or even a bucket load.
I still don't get the Royal Mail excuse - why not just come out with the truth in the first place? Indeed, I think most of those who suffered would have probably moaned a bit, but just got on with it.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
OR they believed they had gone out and after further investigations, realised this was not the case.
That would be more worrying if true (which I doubt). The chances of the Royal Mail losing an entire truck load of letters was always very slim, especially in light of the known data integrity issues - the club would have seen examples of season tickets with incorrect names, addresses and seat numbers before last Tuesday when they made their initial statement - it wouldn't have taken a genius to link these data issues with the 1500 missing letters, especially given the tiny odds of the alternative.
Comments
Who else can be blamed other than the person in charge, don't get how anyone can defend KM on this one, total incompetence with the added lies to try and deflect the blame.
The club's early public response was not proportionate to the issue. It did not reassure those affected. It did not correctly identify the problem. The chief executive did not take responsibility and she was not seen to lead. She did not play a visible part on Saturday, which she could have done simply by being seen monitoring the situation (unless others know different), whereas she has been keen to appear in frivolous contexts. These things matter, including to staff who need to feel supported. Indeed she appeared to arrive at The Valley later than 12.30pm, well after the other staff. We saw her.
It all led to KM and the club being lampooned on p11 of The Sun. A statement on Friday about data migration, even unattributed, would have prevented the paper implying she is a liar. The fact is people outside the club knew from the outset that it was a data migration issue. It was obvious from the range of issues. Someone with knowledge in that area who used to work at the club explained in detail to me how the problems arose - without even talking to staff. Either the club knew this and was lying to fans, or it didn't and it was negligent, because it was very obvious. That impinges on trust.
Now we have the statement that I anticipated this morning, with the apology in KM's name. That's the right thing to do and she's done it. I won't quibble over the detail. She's no doubt hard working, personable and wants to do her best for the club. Staff like her. But the outcomes that are her responsibility are not good enough at the moment. The buck stops with her. That's all there is to it, and when the problems are about communication, it cannot come down to resources.
To deflect the blame onto a third party, when you know it was your own fault is something a child does.
I'm beginning to think that some of the issues are down to cultural differences - it's the only thing that would make sense.
Each nation has its own traditions, customs and ways of 'operating', whether in business or life in general. They may only be small differences, but they're there. Just look at the situation with Vincent Tan at Cardiff.
Ours are fading into the ether as we become more and more 'Americanised'. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but the idea of customer service is certainly one of those areas where those in the service industry have upped their game over the past 10-15 years - and I don't just mean saying 'have a nice day' when you've served someone.
Because of that, our expectations of first class service from all our 'providers' is taken for granted. Indeed, there are plenty of threads on here from people complaining about the poor service they've received. It's also why virtually every company employs over paid consultants (
From experience, these kind of service levels are not the same as ours on the near continent. Not far off, but I believe we are still ahead with our 'customer experience' albeit still miles behind the Americans.
Also, any nation who can make such fantastic chips and then smothers them in mayonnaise, surely have something not quite right with their National psyche.
I'm not saying it's because our owner and CEO are 'foreign' - it matters not one jot to me what nationality they are. I'm just trying to reason why the response has been what it has, when so many people on here could have suggested a far better way to deal with the situation - both before and after it happened.
Or cardigan.
Is it Bill Green Gates ?
Might you consider penning something of that nature to send to KM ?
My view, for what it's worth, is that KM requires A N Other, a COO perhaps, to whom she could delegate certain duties, or work with in overseeing the respective department managers. IMHO she has too much on her plate to effectively cover all the bases.
No failsafe in place, no plan B, and no prior testing of the system before it became live.
Is this because of poor advice from Green4, or simply the schoolboy error of not sorting one of the crucial cornerstones of the practice of a professional football club in good time?
Time is one of the factors managers have to take into account when managing anything isn't it? Combined with where your priorities are, and if there are sufficient resources to do the job?
Given the cock up, I reckon, as I have said before, that supporters are not compensated with vouchers for fourteen chips that ain't, but allowed free entry to a home cup tie to make up for the messing about. Most businesses, even the railways, will compensate for delays, so ought Charlton.
Shitty fans if true.
They didn't have to miss QPR, they could have gone down to the club on match day and collected before the game.
Would they have been inconvenienced by minor delays, yes certainly.
Would they have seen both goals, yes unless they popped to the bog.
Would they have wanted a refund for missing a quarter or half of a game, very unlikely.
They only want a refund because they missed a win.
No doubt some people will feel this doesn't make them worthy supporters, but it's their choice. It's a crazy argument to attack people for not accepting poor service. In any event, I suspect they are making a point and will be back.
Ultimately this is about the contradiction between being just a business and being a club. Fans queue to overcome problems they didn't cause because of their loyalty over and above the transaction itself - that's why the "fans must accept that the owner decides" line is so poisonous. If you openly reduce the relationship to a financial transaction you are dismissing that loyalty as meaningless, whereas it is actually fundamental.
I also heard that the lad who received his ST from JJ and Henderson as part of the 100 seat campaign, didn't get his actual ST at all.
That really deserves a 'beyond parody'.
a couple of sacks of mail MAX more like!