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Game of Thrones

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  • Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Of course I agree with all your logic on suspension of disbelief. But I also think the explanation is there. The ships were behind some big cliff things, effectively in a blind spot. The dragons were flying slowly and not expecting to be shot at. 

    Meanwhile Dany adjusted her flying technique and, having sized up the defences of Kings Landing in the previous episode (while watching Missandei get killed), attacked them so ferociously they couldn’t respond adequately. I don’t find that any of that breaks the internal logic. They just didn’t provide much exposition to sweeten the deal. 




     (Though I would still ask, if you can't be seen by your target from behind a cliff, how do you see your target to aim at it?!)  

    I do take your points seriously, and I get that some people aren't buying what's happening. But are you really saying you don't believe in the existence of ambushes? I find it really interesting that you keep picking holes in something that's so easily explained if you WANT it to be! 

    Euron and the Iron Fleet got to Dragonstone early. Figured out which direction the dragons would be coming from. They picked a spot, behind some cliff things, then lay in wait. When the dragons went past, Euron and co. were in the blind spot, so they lined up the shot carefully, and fired. Euron took the first shot, a couple of others followed his lead. They nailed the target. I really don't think I am reaching here! 


  • JiMMy 85 said:
    Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Of course I agree with all your logic on suspension of disbelief. But I also think the explanation is there. The ships were behind some big cliff things, effectively in a blind spot. The dragons were flying slowly and not expecting to be shot at. 

    Meanwhile Dany adjusted her flying technique and, having sized up the defences of Kings Landing in the previous episode (while watching Missandei get killed), attacked them so ferociously they couldn’t respond adequately. I don’t find that any of that breaks the internal logic. They just didn’t provide much exposition to sweeten the deal. 




     (Though I would still ask, if you can't be seen by your target from behind a cliff, how do you see your target to aim at it?!)  

    I do take your points seriously, and I get that some people aren't buying what's happening. But are you really saying you don't believe in the existence of ambushes? I find it really interesting that you keep picking holes in something that's so easily explained if you WANT it to be! 

    Euron and the Iron Fleet got to Dragonstone early. Figured out which direction the dragons would be coming from. They picked a spot, behind some cliff things, then lay in wait. When the dragons went past, Euron and co. were in the blind spot, so they lined up the shot carefully, and fired. Euron took the first shot, a couple of others followed his lead. They nailed the target. I really don't think I am reaching here! 


    I had a lot of issues with the Euron scene.

    1.) How do you get your boats that close to a rock face with out damaging them? That’s it, you can’t 

    2.) That’s like the second or third time Euron has come out of nowhere to defeat an enemy.

    3.) The guy hits multiple shots from like a mile away yet in the very next episode can only manage one shot in the same amount of time, and surprise surprise it misses.

    It’s awful writing, plain and simple, I can’t see how it can be defended.

    They could’ve easily followed the book material and made Euron this magical/mysterious character, but that would involve fleshing him out more.
    Its all just so rushed.
  • Lmao Rotten Tomatoes the worst system to judge anything IMO.

    6.7 out of 10 or 67% by RT standards on IMDB which is based off more than 113,000 reviews.
  • I don’t have too much problem with this series. Yes, there are elements I’d change, but it seems the whole world is going a bit overboard on the criticism.

    Having said that...

    The only thing that has consistently irritated me is Euron Greyjoy. I really can’t remember anything good that he’s brought to the show. He was a pointlessly cruel dickhead who wished he was Jack Sparrow. I kept expecting him to yell out “Yaaaar, shipmates!” Or to see him wearing a ‘Talk like a Pirate Day’ badge.
    His character could’ve remained like one of the many other minor bad guys and we would have been no worse off for it. The time dedicated to him could even have been used to put a bit more meat on the major character arcs.
    He’s been involved in a number of critical scenes, but it just seems like the show could’ve coped better without him. The iron fleet could’ve never existed and it wouldn’t have mattered - for example, Rhaegal could’ve been taken out by a little fella with a camouflaged scorpion on a hill or something.
    The question of Cersei’s baby’s Parentage didn’t matter in the end, so he might as well have never done that. (Why didn’t he look quizzical when Tyrion bellowed up at Cersei that she was pregnant? Didn’t he realise he couldn’t be the father if Tyrion knew about it already?)
    He made the most sense when the Greyjoys were fighting amongst themselves, but I suspect the show runners got a bit carried away and made the character more important than was necessary.

    Euron’s fight to the death with Jaime was the tipping point for me. This has been the only moment that made me go “Oh, FFS!” Purely because I didn’t see any reason for his character to deserve closure or, for that matter, exist. That scene could’ve been edited out. Jaime dies anyway, so being mortally wounded was irrelevant and Euron might as well have drowned after Drogon fucked his boat.

    Anyway. It’s never going to be perfect and I still love the show. But if truth be told, I think I’m glad it’s nearly over.
    The Bam Margera of Westeros
  • Bam Greyjoy 

  • Fiiish said:
    Tyrion is Azor Ahai. Calling it now.
    I am calling it right now that the subject of Azor Ahai will not even be brought up in the finale. 
  • JiMMy 85 said:
    Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Of course I agree with all your logic on suspension of disbelief. But I also think the explanation is there. The ships were behind some big cliff things, effectively in a blind spot. The dragons were flying slowly and not expecting to be shot at. 

    Meanwhile Dany adjusted her flying technique and, having sized up the defences of Kings Landing in the previous episode (while watching Missandei get killed), attacked them so ferociously they couldn’t respond adequately. I don’t find that any of that breaks the internal logic. They just didn’t provide much exposition to sweeten the deal. 




     (Though I would still ask, if you can't be seen by your target from behind a cliff, how do you see your target to aim at it?!)  

    I do take your points seriously, and I get that some people aren't buying what's happening. But are you really saying you don't believe in the existence of ambushes? I find it really interesting that you keep picking holes in something that's so easily explained if you WANT it to be! 

    Euron and the Iron Fleet got to Dragonstone early. Figured out which direction the dragons would be coming from. They picked a spot, behind some cliff things, then lay in wait. When the dragons went past, Euron and co. were in the blind spot, so they lined up the shot carefully, and fired. Euron took the first shot, a couple of others followed his lead. They nailed the target. I really don't think I am reaching here! 



    I think getting in to the forensic detail of Rhaegal's death is sort of missing the point in the end.  It's one of the key moments in the series, along with Arya's trampoline attack and Dany's barbecue, that have got so many people wound up over the bad writing in this series.  

    Rhaegal's death was cheap and a lame attempt to shock.  They needed to take the piece of the board for plot reasons and committed all sorts of bad writing sins to get it done.  Plot induced stupidity for Dany to forget about the Iron fleet, despite a previous scene warning her about it.  Plot armour for Drogon to survive for the next episode.  Dany acting totally out of character, after losing another dragon all she does is basically run away, leaving her fleet undefended to get sunk.  

    GoT used to be brilliant, it was the best thing on TV by a country mile but not any more.  Am I picking holes in it?  Possibly, but I hold it to a higher standard because of what it was in the past and what it still should be.
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  • Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Of course I agree with all your logic on suspension of disbelief. But I also think the explanation is there. The ships were behind some big cliff things, effectively in a blind spot. The dragons were flying slowly and not expecting to be shot at. 

    Meanwhile Dany adjusted her flying technique and, having sized up the defences of Kings Landing in the previous episode (while watching Missandei get killed), attacked them so ferociously they couldn’t respond adequately. I don’t find that any of that breaks the internal logic. They just didn’t provide much exposition to sweeten the deal. 




     (Though I would still ask, if you can't be seen by your target from behind a cliff, how do you see your target to aim at it?!)  

    I do take your points seriously, and I get that some people aren't buying what's happening. But are you really saying you don't believe in the existence of ambushes? I find it really interesting that you keep picking holes in something that's so easily explained if you WANT it to be! 

    Euron and the Iron Fleet got to Dragonstone early. Figured out which direction the dragons would be coming from. They picked a spot, behind some cliff things, then lay in wait. When the dragons went past, Euron and co. were in the blind spot, so they lined up the shot carefully, and fired. Euron took the first shot, a couple of others followed his lead. They nailed the target. I really don't think I am reaching here! 



    I think getting in to the forensic detail of Rhaegal's death is sort of missing the point in the end.  It's one of the key moments in the series, along with Arya's trampoline attack and Dany's barbecue, that have got so many people wound up over the bad writing in this series.  

    Rhaegal's death was cheap and a lame attempt to shock.  They needed to take the piece of the board for plot reasons and committed all sorts of bad writing sins to get it done.  Plot induced stupidity for Dany to forget about the Iron fleet, despite a previous scene warning her about it.  Plot armour for Drogon to survive for the next episode.  Dany acting totally out of character, after losing another dragon all she does is basically run away, leaving her fleet undefended to get sunk.  

    GoT used to be brilliant, it was the best thing on TV by a country mile but not any more.  Am I picking holes in it?  Possibly, but I hold it to a higher standard because of what it was in the past and what it still should be.


    How did you want him to die then? It appears you obviously could have done it better, or at least his death?


    I am not sure how you can disbelieve Rhaegal to get hit by a crossbow, not sure how else its supposed to happen.


    You do make me laugh, I can see a few people are not happy with the latest series/ or last few but I just think its people nitpicking. Its the best series ever (for me) and just enjoy it for what it is, do you go into this much detail on Lord of the Rings? Harry Potter? or any fantasy film, I doubt it. Just because its been built up and then things aren't as you expect it you are choosing to find anything, in most cases which @jimmy85 has argued the background.


  • Dazzler21 said:
    Lmao Rotten Tomatoes the worst system to judge anything IMO.

    6.7 out of 10 or 67% by RT standards on IMDB which is based off more than 113,000 reviews.

    Surprised by that, but reading through this thread not so much. Cant please everyone but that is shockingly low considering the impact and amount of people who do watch it. Not sure any of my friends /colleagues have been as disappointed as people on CL
  • Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Of course I agree with all your logic on suspension of disbelief. But I also think the explanation is there. The ships were behind some big cliff things, effectively in a blind spot. The dragons were flying slowly and not expecting to be shot at. 

    Meanwhile Dany adjusted her flying technique and, having sized up the defences of Kings Landing in the previous episode (while watching Missandei get killed), attacked them so ferociously they couldn’t respond adequately. I don’t find that any of that breaks the internal logic. They just didn’t provide much exposition to sweeten the deal. 




     (Though I would still ask, if you can't be seen by your target from behind a cliff, how do you see your target to aim at it?!)  

    I do take your points seriously, and I get that some people aren't buying what's happening. But are you really saying you don't believe in the existence of ambushes? I find it really interesting that you keep picking holes in something that's so easily explained if you WANT it to be! 

    Euron and the Iron Fleet got to Dragonstone early. Figured out which direction the dragons would be coming from. They picked a spot, behind some cliff things, then lay in wait. When the dragons went past, Euron and co. were in the blind spot, so they lined up the shot carefully, and fired. Euron took the first shot, a couple of others followed his lead. They nailed the target. I really don't think I am reaching here! 



    I think getting in to the forensic detail of Rhaegal's death is sort of missing the point in the end.  It's one of the key moments in the series, along with Arya's trampoline attack and Dany's barbecue, that have got so many people wound up over the bad writing in this series.  

    Rhaegal's death was cheap and a lame attempt to shock.  They needed to take the piece of the board for plot reasons and committed all sorts of bad writing sins to get it done.  Plot induced stupidity for Dany to forget about the Iron fleet, despite a previous scene warning her about it.  Plot armour for Drogon to survive for the next episode.  Dany acting totally out of character, after losing another dragon all she does is basically run away, leaving her fleet undefended to get sunk.  

    GoT used to be brilliant, it was the best thing on TV by a country mile but not any more.  Am I picking holes in it?  Possibly, but I hold it to a higher standard because of what it was in the past and what it still should be.


    How did you want him to die then? It appears you obviously could have done it better, or at least his death?


    I am not sure how you can disbelieve Rhaegal to get hit by a crossbow, not sure how else its supposed to happen.


    You do make me laugh, I can see a few people are not happy with the latest series/ or last few but I just think its people nitpicking. Its the best series ever (for me) and just enjoy it for what it is, do you go into this much detail on Lord of the Rings? Harry Potter? or any fantasy film, I doubt it. Just because its been built up and then things aren't as you expect it you are choosing to find anything, in most cases which @jimmy85 has argued the background.



    It was a worthless death, a cheap shock.  It sums up the nihilistic approach to writing that seems to be on the increase these days.  Everybody dies and nothing matters.  It really doesn't make for satisfying drama.

    If Rhaegal wasn't required after episode 3, why not kill him in episode 3?  That huge battle left pretty much all the main characters alive and most of the side characters unscathed and no significant cost to anyone.   Why not have Dany freak out at the prospect of fighting her zombie dragon.  Leave Jon and Rhaegal to fight the Night King and Viserion.  We get an epic battle between two dragons ripping each other to shreds and both are mortally wounded, what's more tragic than two brothers killing each other?  At least Rhaegal's death earns something, he takes out the enemy dragon and gets the Night King on the ground where he's vulnerable.  Jon gets to fulfill part of his character arc by confronting the Night King.  Dany can add to her mad queen business as she has paid the heaviest price of all, she has to mourn Jorah and two dead dragons, but everyone still loves Jon and Arya instead as everyone thinks they saved the day.   That's just me spending 10 minutes thinking up fan fiction on the train this morning (delayed again!)

    Trouble is, nerds like me do go into this stuff in depth.  We're the weirdos who buy books, maps, action figures, DVDs then Blu-Rays, then the re-makestered 4k versions.  We're the people who make HBO their money.  Normal folks just watch it on TV, enjoy it and that's that.  HBO are fools for thinking they could rush the ending and the people who pay the bills wouldn't be up in arms about it.  They've seriously damaged the legacy of this show.  They could have been selling Blu-ray box sets for years, endless repeats on TV, merchandise for ever.  Who's going to bother now when GoT gets the rep of a show that started out good but the ending isn't worth it?
  • edited May 2019
    If you killed Rhaegal in the fight with The Night King and then The Night King didn't raise him to also fight alongside him (basically making it impossible for the living to win) then people would complain. 

    How do you mortally wound something that's already dead? Let's say Rhaegal did somehow kill Viserion and died doing so, we know that The Night King would have raised Rhaegal, like he did everyone that fell.

    Drogon's out of the picture and the Night King still has his now raised Rhaegal.

    The Night King could have used his dragon's fire to burn everyone at the castle including Jon, Dany, Jaime, Brienne, Pod, Hound, Arya, Theon, Jorah, Bran, Sansa, Tyrion, Gilly, Sam etc as Drogon wasn't there.

    Winterfell would have fallen. The dead would continue to sweep towards Kings Landing.

    Your ending would have made for a shock admittedly, but Cersei etc would then have a battle with the dead that we simply don't care about. All the 'good guys' would have been wiped out.

    I would argue that r/freefolk or r/gameofthrones are probably better places for you to air your grievances as you'll find people who are as interested in it as you are that will agree and disagree with your view. 


  • Dazzler21 said:
    If you killed Rhaegal in the fight with The Night King and then The Night King didn't raise him to also fight alongside him (basically making it impossible for the living to win) then people would complain. 

    How do you mortally wound something that's already dead? Let's say Rhaegal did somehow kill Viserion and died doing so, we know that The Night King would have raised Rhaegal, like he did everyone that fell.

    Drogon's out of the picture and the Night King still has his now raised Rhaegal.

    The Night King could have used his dragon's fire to burn everyone at the castle including Jon, Dany, Jaime, Brienne, Pod, Hound, Arya, Theon, Jorah, Bran, Sansa, Tyrion, Gilly, Sam etc as Drogon wasn't there.

    Winterfell would have fallen. The dead would continue to sweep towards Kings Landing.

    Your ending would have made for a shock admittedly, but Cersei etc would then have a battle with the dead that we simply don't care about. All the 'good guys' would have been wiped out.

    I would argue that r/freefolk or r/gameofthrones are probably better places for you to air your grievances as you'll find people who are as interested in it as you are that will agree and disagree with your view. 


    Like I said, it's just fan fiction.  Would the Night King have time to raise the dead if he's busy fighting?  Is a zombie dragon any use with its head ripped off and stamped into a pulp?  I'm sure its not a corner a competent writer couldn't find their way out of.

    I'm staying off freefolk to avoid the spoilers.  You'll all have to suffer until it's over!!
  • @Missed It I took your post as a good explanation as to why you can’t enjoy the show, rather than good reasoning for why It isn’t any good. 
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  • JiMMy 85 said:
    @Missed It I took your post as a good explanation as to why you can’t enjoy the show, rather than good reasoning for why It isn’t any good. 

    The best place for fan fiction is to stay inside fan boys heads after all! 

    I actually enjoyed the last episode for the spectacle, Jaime and Tyrion's scene, Cleganebowl (even though it was total fanservice), but a lot of other bits left a sour taste.
  • Fiiish said:
    Tyrion is Azor Ahai. Calling it now.
    I am calling it right now that the subject of Azor Ahai will not even be brought up in the finale. 
    100%. They have abandoned the whole Azor Ahai talk, and almost all the prophecies have been abandoned really, which is irritating as they spent a lot of screen/book time building them up and was one of the more interesting talking points for me. The only one mentioned was what Melisandre said to Arya, and that's because it fit the plot writing for Arya to kill the NK. 
  • edited May 2019
    I'm a massive GOT fan but season 8 is a load of shit. Why would Bran want the iron throne and after killing Dany why would Jon join rejoin the Black? Thought the Night king destroyed it and there was peace with the wildlings now.


  • edited May 2019
    I'm a massive GOT fan but season 8 is a load of shit. Why would Bran want the iron throne and after killing Dany why would Jon join rejoin the Black? Thought the Night king destroyed it and there was peace with the wildlings now.


    Makes no sense.
  • Missed It said:
    Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Missed It said:
    JiMMy 85 said:
    Of course I agree with all your logic on suspension of disbelief. But I also think the explanation is there. The ships were behind some big cliff things, effectively in a blind spot. The dragons were flying slowly and not expecting to be shot at. 

    Meanwhile Dany adjusted her flying technique and, having sized up the defences of Kings Landing in the previous episode (while watching Missandei get killed), attacked them so ferociously they couldn’t respond adequately. I don’t find that any of that breaks the internal logic. They just didn’t provide much exposition to sweeten the deal. 




     (Though I would still ask, if you can't be seen by your target from behind a cliff, how do you see your target to aim at it?!)  

    I do take your points seriously, and I get that some people aren't buying what's happening. But are you really saying you don't believe in the existence of ambushes? I find it really interesting that you keep picking holes in something that's so easily explained if you WANT it to be! 

    Euron and the Iron Fleet got to Dragonstone early. Figured out which direction the dragons would be coming from. They picked a spot, behind some cliff things, then lay in wait. When the dragons went past, Euron and co. were in the blind spot, so they lined up the shot carefully, and fired. Euron took the first shot, a couple of others followed his lead. They nailed the target. I really don't think I am reaching here! 



    I think getting in to the forensic detail of Rhaegal's death is sort of missing the point in the end.  It's one of the key moments in the series, along with Arya's trampoline attack and Dany's barbecue, that have got so many people wound up over the bad writing in this series.  

    Rhaegal's death was cheap and a lame attempt to shock.  They needed to take the piece of the board for plot reasons and committed all sorts of bad writing sins to get it done.  Plot induced stupidity for Dany to forget about the Iron fleet, despite a previous scene warning her about it.  Plot armour for Drogon to survive for the next episode.  Dany acting totally out of character, after losing another dragon all she does is basically run away, leaving her fleet undefended to get sunk.  

    GoT used to be brilliant, it was the best thing on TV by a country mile but not any more.  Am I picking holes in it?  Possibly, but I hold it to a higher standard because of what it was in the past and what it still should be.


    How did you want him to die then? It appears you obviously could have done it better, or at least his death?


    I am not sure how you can disbelieve Rhaegal to get hit by a crossbow, not sure how else its supposed to happen.


    You do make me laugh, I can see a few people are not happy with the latest series/ or last few but I just think its people nitpicking. Its the best series ever (for me) and just enjoy it for what it is, do you go into this much detail on Lord of the Rings? Harry Potter? or any fantasy film, I doubt it. Just because its been built up and then things aren't as you expect it you are choosing to find anything, in most cases which @jimmy85 has argued the background.



    It was a worthless death, a cheap shock.  It sums up the nihilistic approach to writing that seems to be on the increase these days.  Everybody dies and nothing matters.  It really doesn't make for satisfying drama.

    If Rhaegal wasn't required after episode 3, why not kill him in episode 3?  That huge battle left pretty much all the main characters alive and most of the side characters unscathed and no significant cost to anyone.   Why not have Dany freak out at the prospect of fighting her zombie dragon.  Leave Jon and Rhaegal to fight the Night King and Viserion.  We get an epic battle between two dragons ripping each other to shreds and both are mortally wounded, what's more tragic than two brothers killing each other?  At least Rhaegal's death earns something, he takes out the enemy dragon and gets the Night King on the ground where he's vulnerable.  Jon gets to fulfill part of his character arc by confronting the Night King.  Dany can add to her mad queen business as she has paid the heaviest price of all, she has to mourn Jorah and two dead dragons, but everyone still loves Jon and Arya instead as everyone thinks they saved the day.   That's just me spending 10 minutes thinking up fan fiction on the train this morning (delayed again!)

    Trouble is, nerds like me do go into this stuff in depth.  We're the weirdos who buy books, maps, action figures, DVDs then Blu-Rays, then the re-makestered 4k versions.  We're the people who make HBO their money.  Normal folks just watch it on TV, enjoy it and that's that.  HBO are fools for thinking they could rush the ending and the people who pay the bills wouldn't be up in arms about it.  They've seriously damaged the legacy of this show.  They could have been selling Blu-ray box sets for years, endless repeats on TV, merchandise for ever.  Who's going to bother now when GoT gets the rep of a show that started out good but the ending isn't worth it?
    Well no, it served a purpose. The purpose was to show that Daenerys' dragons can be killed by men. Before that it was only the Night King who had killed a dragon, and he's dead. Rhaegal being killed by the scorpions added dramatic tension so that for the week leading up to the episode, and at the start of the battle, there was uncertainty for the audience as well as the characters. Before that it had always been the idea that nothing could stop a dragon, so as soon as she got round to attacking KL it was over. This way we knew that it wasn't as clear cut. You might not agree with how it was done, but that's why it happened and there was a reason.
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