Confession time .. If I were the owner of a professional football club, I would DEFINITELY have a say in team selection and player purchases .. not to say that I would DEMAND to have the final say, but I would have my opinions heard and I would not be using any computer gimmickry .. and I dare say 90% of CLers would say the same .. IF they were being honest
They are football fans. Football fans like to think they know it all. Roland is not a football fan, I'm sure there's a few quotes about to back that up. He's a business man. :-)
I But I have also seen it work very well in different businesses, because it does constantly challenge senior management to improve and challenge their own way of thinking.
Of course this is only guesswork on my part, but it seems to fit the facts better than the 'he picks the team' theory because:
1, The reality on the pitch - as I say, we just do not have bundles of really good players who are being kept out by 'RD's favourites'.
2, His success in business - I just cannot see that it is credible to believe that someone could develop a business of the size he has, while thinking that he can micro-manage the work of all his senior management, when he flagrantly cannot.
But this is exactly where the problem lies. When he challenges his managers in his main business he does so as the person who understand his business, his products and his markets very well, because this is his lifetime professional experience.
None of that experience is remotely relevant to the business of football. Put it this way, if tomorrow I inherited a micro-electronics business from a mysterious previously unknown relative, i wouldn't dream of trying to take key business decisions myself, because I know jack about micro-electronics. RD isn't the only successful business person who bought a football club and then threw all of the normal rules of management out of the window, but as @Garrymanilow says, that doesn't make it ok, or less threatening to our club. RD is a very difficult man to understand but it is fairly clear that his goal in football is not to make a shed load of money per se, but to prove some kind of point. Why, and what the point is, becomes less rather than more clear as time goes by.
I But I have also seen it work very well in different businesses, because it does constantly challenge senior management to improve and challenge their own way of thinking.
Of course this is only guesswork on my part, but it seems to fit the facts better than the 'he picks the team' theory because:
1, The reality on the pitch - as I say, we just do not have bundles of really good players who are being kept out by 'RD's favourites'.
2, His success in business - I just cannot see that it is credible to believe that someone could develop a business of the size he has, while thinking that he can micro-manage the work of all his senior management, when he flagrantly cannot.
But this is exactly where the problem lies. When he challenges his managers in his main business he does so as the person who understand his business, his products and his markets very well, because this is his lifetime professional experience.
None of that experience is remotely relevant to the business of football. Put it this way, if tomorrow I inherited a micro-electronics business from a mysterious previously unknown relative, i wouldn't dream of trying to take key business decisions myself, because I know jack about micro-electronics. RD isn't the only successful business person who bought a football club and then threw all of the normal rules of management out of the window, but as @Garrymanilow says, that doesn't make it ok, or less threatening to our club. RD is a very difficult man to understand but it is fairly clear that his goal in football is not to make a shed load of money per se, but to prove some kind of point. Why, and what the point is, becomes less rather than more clear as time goes by.
You may know jack about micro electronics, but why keep on about RD knowing nothing about football?
He owns half a dozen football clubs for Gods sake. He has more day to day dealings with the football industry than 95% of people on this board.
Just because you own something doesn't mean you know anything much about it. Duchatelet doesn't know a lot about football. He know's a lot about business and employs people for the football side of things.
You may know jack about micro electronics, but why keep on about RD knowing nothing about football?
He owns half a dozen football clubs for Gods sake. He has more day to day dealings with the football industry than 95% of people on this board.
Just because you own something doesn't mean you know anything much about it. Duchatelet doesn't know a lot about football. He know's a lot about business and employs people for the football side of things.
How do you know this?
As I said, he deals with the football business on a daily basis and to suggest he knows little about it is just not true.
You may know jack about micro electronics, but why keep on about RD knowing nothing about football?
He owns half a dozen football clubs for Gods sake. He has more day to day dealings with the football industry than 95% of people on this board.
Just because you own something doesn't mean you know anything much about it. Duchatelet doesn't know a lot about football. He know's a lot about business and employs people for the football side of things.
How do you know this?
As I said, he deals with the football business on a daily basis and to suggest he knows little about it is just not true.
You've just added a word to your original statement which changes it..
If you want any more links and quotes etc. to back it up he's not a football fan and knows nothing of football I can happily provide, he's a business man and a business man only. He doesn't even follow a football team.
I know he"s a football fan as I spoke to him before the Stayern Cup and he was really looking forward to it.
Everybody that has worked with him says he might be a big man in business but he doesn't know anything about football!" - Rudy Nuyens
"One of his strong beliefs is that football teams shouldn't pay money to their opponents, neither for their players nor managers. So, he will never "buy" a Standard player at another team, unless he can get him for (almost) free. " Douglas de Coninck - Belgian News Journalist
"I don't think so. Duchâtelet is a dreamer, a politician. Owning Standard brings him to meetings where he can expose his ideas on synthetic pitches, competition reform, transfer systems... But there's the whole problem: he own clubs not out of love for those clubs." DdC again (these guys have years of experience following RD's movements around football - speak his native language and have inside knowledge we do not)
I have to shoot off to the VIP meeting now..
Also, I doubt he'd tell you otherwise face to face. He owns football clubs, but not for footballing reasons.
@PragueAddick But again, you are assuming that he is trying to take the decisions himself, rather than what I think is more likely, which is to say that he is challenging those who work for him to show their character by standing up to him and their knowledge by bettering his ideas. (Of course that does not preclude him from making mistakes and he will definitely not be everyone's cup of tea to work with.)
It is a standard business expression that you should 'employ people who know more about what you are employing them to do than you do' (or else you would do it yourself), but that does not mean that senior management should never make suggestions or challenge those who work for them - quite the opposite - as long as they step back at the appropriate time when the manager has justified and stood up for themselves. And, to my mind, the evidence of the players we see picked suggests exactly that.
I actually think that what RD is doing is very usual business practice and it is, in fact, very typical of the 'football business' that middle management think that they should be so far above comment from the people who own their clubs, that it is a huge scandal and seen as 'interference' if the owners decide to manage in this way.
The 'you never played professionally so butt out because your opinion does not count' school of middle management is just one of the reasons that pretty much every football club in the country is functionally insolvent.
I know he"s a football fan as I spoke to him before the Stayern Cup and he was really looking forward to it.
Everybody that has worked with him says he might be a big man in business but he doesn't know anything about football!" - Rudy Nuyens
"One of his strong beliefs is that football teams shouldn't pay money to their opponents, neither for their players nor managers. So, he will never "buy" a Standard player at another team, unless he can get him for (almost) free. " Douglas de Coninck - Belgian News Journalist
"I don't think so. Duchâtelet is a dreamer, a politician. Owning Standard brings him to meetings where he can expose his ideas on synthetic pitches, competition reform, transfer systems... But there's the whole problem: he own clubs not out of love for those clubs." DdC again (these guys have years of experience following RD's movements around football - speak his native language and have inside knowledge we do not)
I have to shoot off to the VIP meeting now..
Also, I doubt he'd tell you otherwise face to face. He owns football clubs, but not for footballing reasons.
How do any of those quotes back up what you said earlier?
Our most successful period coincided with having a knowledgable manager who took ALL the football decisions. Does anyone think that Curbs would have stayed with us as long as he did if Richard Murray had tried to interfere with team selection and player recruitment? The fact that Murray is a football fan did not affect the relationship- he made the financial decisions and Curbs made the football decisions, and that's how it should be. Anyone who read Alex Dyer's interview is in no doubt about the unhealthy effect of Roland's long-distance interferance. His trust in his scouting Network is stupid, the results speak for them selves. The bottom line is that Roland's in it for the Network, we're in it for Charlton.
Our most successful period coincided with having a knowledgable manager who took ALL the football decisions. Does anyone think that Curbs would have stayed with us as long as he did if Richard Murray had tried to interfere with team selection and player recruitment? The fact that Murray is a football fan did not affect the relationship- he made the financial decisions and Curbs made the football decisions, and that's how it should be. Anyone who read Alex Dyer's interview is in no doubt about the unhealthy effect of Roland's long-distance interferance. His trust in his scouting Network is stupid, the results speak for them selves. The bottom line is that Roland's in it for the Network, we're in it for Charlton.
Curbs had a VERY good sidekick .. a certain Les Reed .. proof positive that a truly great coach/talent spotter does not a good football manager make .. admittedly Reed was not - so far as I know - a shareholder/part owner of CAFC
I know he"s a football fan as I spoke to him before the Stayern Cup and he was really looking forward to it.
Everybody that has worked with him says he might be a big man in business but he doesn't know anything about football!" - Rudy Nuyens
"One of his strong beliefs is that football teams shouldn't pay money to their opponents, neither for their players nor managers. So, he will never "buy" a Standard player at another team, unless he can get him for (almost) free. " Douglas de Coninck - Belgian News Journalist
"I don't think so. Duchâtelet is a dreamer, a politician. Owning Standard brings him to meetings where he can expose his ideas on synthetic pitches, competition reform, transfer systems... But there's the whole problem: he own clubs not out of love for those clubs." DdC again (these guys have years of experience following RD's movements around football - speak his native language and have inside knowledge we do not)
I have to shoot off to the VIP meeting now..
Also, I doubt he'd tell you otherwise face to face. He owns football clubs, but not for footballing reasons.
How do any of those quotes back up what you said earlier?
Top one says it all (if you've read it)
Second one is a ludicrous belief in modern football, anyone that believes that is clearly not a football fan and if they are then they need to re-assess their thought processes a bit. Not directly backing it up but pretty damn obvious this guy is a business man not a football man, I found those within a couple of minutes, I'm sure I could compile a page worth given the time.
The third one I have highlighted the important bit.
The club communicates via the Valley Review, it's web site, and the local press.
Tomorrow night there is a QA with Valley Gold and the CEO and a Director are meeting fans at the Bromley event.
It is not the lack of opportunity to ask questions, it is that some of you do not like and will never be happy with the answers. I think they go something like this:-
Yes, he wants to build a strong Championship side. He may pump a bob or two into a player if we are very close to getting promoted, but otherwise not.
He will sell players if a good offer comes in.
Yes he will move players within the network if he can see a financial advantage to the network. If it benefits the network we all benefit indirectly.
The stadium and pitch have been greatly improved, as have the catering and the provision for a half time pint. Easily dismissed as 'yes but.....' but it was urgently required.
Plans for a much improved training ground moving forward.
Speaking of forward. Old and lonely forward who wanted to leave replaced by rwo young potential stars costing 3.5 mil.
We have put in place a young manager who has won the premier league in Belgium who likes his teams to play direct football without lumping it up front. We did interview others and he was the best candidate.
We want to bring in another forward but he would have to better than we have and affordable.
Our aim this year is to consolidate in the Championship and look to improve the squad again in the summer. We have only been in charge a year, we have made one or two mistakes but give us a chance please.
Pretty much how I feel about it at the moment. Meetings such as Bromley Addicks and VIP give fans the chance to ask the questions but it's just they don't like the answers they are getting. So there is communication but not the sort some want.
As a matter of interest, Large, would it be acceptable to you if you had evidence that Roland intervenes in team selection based on advice from computer analysts?
This to me is the nub of the problem. If you believe that doesn't and never has happened then fair enough, but what if it has and is? Is that OK?
Rick, no I wouldn't be happy but some owners seem to want to get involved in such matters these days. Look at Brentford at the moment, the Venkys at Blackburn etc. I am all for the Trust and Co trying to get more information from RD but I don't think it's going to happen. I also don't think, seeing as what has gone on at Leige, that season ticket boycotts, merchandise boycotts etc are going to bother him at all. Also, for me, I am still in two minds about the current situation as I can see some things that have benefitted the Club but accept that others havn't. Lack of communication has obviously not helped matters at all but I can't say it's any worse than the two or three years before RD came along either, in my opinion. I do hope that the Trust and Co can get RD to engage more fully with the fans and in that you have my full support.
The club communicates via the Valley Review, it's web site, and the local press.
Tomorrow night there is a QA with Valley Gold and the CEO and a Director are meeting fans at the Bromley event.
It is not the lack of opportunity to ask questions, it is that some of you do not like and will never be happy with the answers. I think they go something like this:-
Yes, he wants to build a strong Championship side. He may pump a bob or two into a player if we are very close to getting promoted, but otherwise not.
He will sell players if a good offer comes in.
Yes he will move players within the network if he can see a financial advantage to the network. If it benefits the network we all benefit indirectly.
The stadium and pitch have been greatly improved, as have the catering and the provision for a half time pint. Easily dismissed as 'yes but.....' but it was urgently required.
Plans for a much improved training ground moving forward.
Speaking of forward. Old and lonely forward who wanted to leave replaced by rwo young potential stars costing 3.5 mil.
We have put in place a young manager who has won the premier league in Belgium who likes his teams to play direct football without lumping it up front. We did interview others and he was the best candidate.
We want to bring in another forward but he would have to better than we have and affordable.
Our aim this year is to consolidate in the Championship and look to improve the squad again in the summer. We have only been in charge a year, we have made one or two mistakes but give us a chance please.
Pretty much how I feel about it at the moment. Meetings such as Bromley Addicks and VIP give fans the chance to ask the questions but it's just they don't like the answers they are getting. So there is communication but not the sort some want.
As a matter of interest, Large, would it be acceptable to you if you had evidence that Roland intervenes in team selection based on advice from computer analysts?
This to me is the nub of the problem. If you believe that doesn't and never has happened then fair enough, but what if it has and is? Is that OK?
Rick, no I wouldn't be happy but some owners seem to want to get involved in such matters these days. Look at Brentford at the moment, the Venkys at Blackburn etc. I am all for the Trust and Co trying to get more information from RD but I don't think it's going to happen. I also don't think, seeing as what has gone on at Leige, that season ticket boycotts, merchandise boycotts etc are going to bother him at all. Also, for me, I am still in two minds about the current situation as I can see some things that have benefitted the Club but accept that others havn't. Lack of communication has obviously not helped matters at all but I can't say it's any worse than the two or three years before RD came along either, in my opinion. I do hope that the Trust and Co can get RD to engage more fully with the fans and in that you have my full support.
I know he"s a football fan as I spoke to him before the Stayern Cup and he was really looking forward to it.
Everybody that has worked with him says he might be a big man in business but he doesn't know anything about football!" - Rudy Nuyens
"One of his strong beliefs is that football teams shouldn't pay money to their opponents, neither for their players nor managers. So, he will never "buy" a Standard player at another team, unless he can get him for (almost) free. " Douglas de Coninck - Belgian News Journalist
"I don't think so. Duchâtelet is a dreamer, a politician. Owning Standard brings him to meetings where he can expose his ideas on synthetic pitches, competition reform, transfer systems... But there's the whole problem: he own clubs not out of love for those clubs." DdC again (these guys have years of experience following RD's movements around football - speak his native language and have inside knowledge we do not)
I have to shoot off to the VIP meeting now..
Also, I doubt he'd tell you otherwise face to face. He owns football clubs, but not for footballing reasons.
How do any of those quotes back up what you said earlier?
Top one says it all (if you've read it)
Second one is a ludicrous belief in modern football, anyone that believes that is clearly not a football fan and if they are then they need to re-assess their thought processes a bit. Not directly backing it up but pretty damn obvious this guy is a business man not a football man, I found those within a couple of minutes, I'm sure I could compile a page worth given the time.
The third one I have highlighted the important bit.
Top one backs up nothing, it's something other people have said about him, not something he's accepted himself.
The second one is also clearly not 100% true, as he has bought players from other clubs.
Many owners don't own their clubs due to love but due to profit. For player sales to earn RD any sort of money, CAFC have to be performing well.
Addickted has a direct quote from RD, suggesting he very much enjoys football, I was expecting something, having read what you'd previously said, to counter that.
Decent PR exercise, no more. If this was a sincere attempt at addressing issues she would have done a Q&A with a small (3-4) group of fans in a calm environment (probably best not on a train) and actually spoken directly about the long-term strategy, the way the club is run and what the future holds. As it is, this is as hard-hitting and challenging as an interview in Hello magazine
Comments
None of that experience is remotely relevant to the business of football. Put it this way, if tomorrow I inherited a micro-electronics business from a mysterious previously unknown relative, i wouldn't dream of trying to take key business decisions myself, because I know jack about micro-electronics. RD isn't the only successful business person who bought a football club and then threw all of the normal rules of management out of the window, but as @Garrymanilow says, that doesn't make it ok, or less threatening to our club. RD is a very difficult man to understand but it is fairly clear that his goal in football is not to make a shed load of money per se, but to prove some kind of point. Why, and what the point is, becomes less rather than more clear as time goes by.
He owns half a dozen football clubs for Gods sake. He has more day to day dealings with the football industry than 95% of people on this board.
As I said, he deals with the football business on a daily basis and to suggest he knows little about it is just not true.
http://talksport.com/football/rudy-nuyens-new-charlton-owner-roland-duchatelet-14010374173
If you want any more links and quotes etc. to back it up he's not a football fan and knows nothing of football I can happily provide, he's a business man and a business man only. He doesn't even follow a football team.
I know he"s a football fan as I spoke to him before the Stayern Cup and he was really looking forward to it.
"One of his strong beliefs is that football teams shouldn't pay money to their opponents, neither for their players nor managers. So, he will never "buy" a Standard player at another team, unless he can get him for (almost) free. " Douglas de Coninck - Belgian News Journalist
"I don't think so. Duchâtelet is a dreamer, a politician. Owning Standard brings him to meetings where he can expose his ideas on synthetic pitches, competition reform, transfer systems... But there's the whole problem: he own clubs not out of love for those clubs." DdC again (these guys have years of experience following RD's movements around football - speak his native language and have inside knowledge we do not)
I have to shoot off to the VIP meeting now..
Also, I doubt he'd tell you otherwise face to face. He owns football clubs, but not for footballing reasons.
But again, you are assuming that he is trying to take the decisions himself, rather than what I think is more likely, which is to say that he is challenging those who work for him to show their character by standing up to him and their knowledge by bettering his ideas. (Of course that does not preclude him from making mistakes and he will definitely not be everyone's cup of tea to work with.)
It is a standard business expression that you should 'employ people who know more about what you are employing them to do than you do' (or else you would do it yourself), but that does not mean that senior management should never make suggestions or challenge those who work for them - quite the opposite - as long as they step back at the appropriate time when the manager has justified and stood up for themselves. And, to my mind, the evidence of the players we see picked suggests exactly that.
I actually think that what RD is doing is very usual business practice and it is, in fact, very typical of the 'football business' that middle management think that they should be so far above comment from the people who own their clubs, that it is a huge scandal and seen as 'interference' if the owners decide to manage in this way.
The 'you never played professionally so butt out because your opinion does not count' school of middle management is just one of the reasons that pretty much every football club in the country is functionally insolvent.
Second one is a ludicrous belief in modern football, anyone that believes that is clearly not a football fan and if they are then they need to re-assess their thought processes a bit. Not directly backing it up but pretty damn obvious this guy is a business man not a football man, I found those within a couple of minutes, I'm sure I could compile a page worth given the time.
The third one I have highlighted the important bit.
The second one is also clearly not 100% true, as he has bought players from other clubs.
Many owners don't own their clubs due to love but due to profit. For player sales to earn RD any sort of money, CAFC have to be performing well.
Addickted has a direct quote from RD, suggesting he very much enjoys football, I was expecting something, having read what you'd previously said, to counter that.