It still doesn't make sense but relegation does hurt him as TV and other income drops so that means he needs to cover more costs and/or make more cuts but there is no more flash on the non-playing bone to cut.
I don't think he wants to lose, he wants to win "Roland doesn't do failure" as KM told us last year.
Only winning or perhaps success is a better word is different to him that for most of us.
As fans most of want to win games, cups and promotions.
For RD I think success is proving that his model works, that there is a different and better way to run football clubs.
The problem is that most people would, when the model isn't working, change the model but it seems Roland just keeps right on.
And it could be a workable model. Most of ingredients are there, the clubs, the spending money for young talent, the lack of emotional attachment to a particular club and not being worried if the fans love him or not. Workable for RD, not for us fans though.
What is missing is that for this model to work you need to be really, really good at talent spotting the best value players and at spotting the best coaches. Not just good but the best in the game.
And we're nowhere near that.
Who says the model isn't working? It depends on how you classify success and what your timeframe is.
Its not working for Charlton, but its worked at Standard Liege. He got £20m plus from player sales there that provided the working capital for his spending spree that included purchasing us, Alcaron and Jenna plus, I think and investment (but not control) in a Dutch club. That didn't happen in a year. It took him a few years, a few coaches and I'm sure a turn over of players to get SL to that point and then he cashed in his chips. Now they have slid down the division, fans are up in arms etc but he's still quids in and I'm sure they will build a team again and 3 or 4 years down the line SL will be topping the division with a good young squad and I'm sure he'll cash in again.
Since he's joined us none of the decisions make sense from a football point of view, but financially he's doing very well out of Charlton. Sure we are making an operating loss and he's invested in a new pitch and some non network new players. However if you add back the costs of the network players (and staff), which were sunk costs as far as the network is concerned and offset the money we got for Kermy, Stephens and Poyet are we making an operating loss? and what really is the nett investment. Also, of the players brought in, have any of them really depreciated in value? Even Peter Parsley has been banging them in for St Truden so has maintained at least some of his value.
From a Charlton centric point of view this isn't working, we've not got the right players in the right positions but, by and large, the wrong players are all from the network (sunk costs). The non network players RD have paid real money for have been good, so maybe the current scouting is working. RD may have made mistakes in the past, player recruitment wise, but is wasn't al bad (see the £20m + i mentioned earlier). Moving them round the network just gets some use out of that investment until they either click or can be offloaded
Its demoralising for the fans and the players but to say its failing or the model needs changing I think you need to look at if from a whole network perspective where you could argue, financially at least, it is working.
That sounds right to me. Even if he is making a loss, it is probably within the bounds of what he considers reasonable in the short term. The quote about him not being interested in winning indicates that he does not factor promotion/premiership status into his plans for us. He sees us a feeder club, possibly to Standard Liege, and certainly to the wider market. Thats is our destiny for as long as he is in charge.
I think relegation would be a significant blow to the plan however. Championship level is I would guess the ideal setting for it to work. He may not 'do' failure but he is prone to the same risk that all businesses face when investing abroad, for example inadequate knowledge of the market. So far his knowledge has proved far from adequate in that respect.
It still doesn't make sense but relegation does hurt him as TV and other income drops so that means he needs to cover more costs and/or make more cuts but there is no more flash on the non-playing bone to cut.
I don't think he wants to lose, he wants to win "Roland doesn't do failure" as KM told us last year.
Only winning or perhaps success is a better word is different to him that for most of us.
As fans most of want to win games, cups and promotions.
For RD I think success is proving that his model works, that there is a different and better way to run football clubs.
The problem is that most people would, when the model isn't working, change the model but it seems Roland just keeps right on.
And it could be a workable model. Most of ingredients are there, the clubs, the spending money for young talent, the lack of emotional attachment to a particular club and not being worried if the fans love him or not. Workable for RD, not for us fans though.
What is missing is that for this model to work you need to be really, really good at talent spotting the best value players and at spotting the best coaches. Not just good but the best in the game.
And we're nowhere near that.
Who says the model isn't working? It depends on how you classify success and what your timeframe is.
Its not working for Charlton, but its worked at Standard Liege. He got £20m plus from player sales there that provided the working capital for his spending spree that included purchasing us, Alcaron and Jenna plus, I think and investment (but not control) in a Dutch club. That didn't happen in a year. It took him a few years, a few coaches and I'm sure a turn over of players to get SL to that point and then he cashed in his chips. Now they have slid down the division, fans are up in arms etc but he's still quids in and I'm sure they will build a team again and 3 or 4 years down the line SL will be topping the division with a good young squad and I'm sure he'll cash in again.
Since he's joined us none of the decisions make sense from a football point of view, but financially he's doing very well out of Charlton. Sure we are making an operating loss and he's invested in a new pitch and some non network new players. However if you add back the costs of the network players (and staff), which were sunk costs as far as the network is concerned and offset the money we got for Kermy, Stephens and Poyet are we making an operating loss? and what really is the nett investment. Also, of the players brought in, have any of them really depreciated in value? Even Peter Parsley has been banging them in for St Truden so has maintained at least some of his value.
From a Charlton centric point of view this isn't working, we've not got the right players in the right positions but, by and large, the wrong players are all from the network (sunk costs). The non network players RD have paid real money for have been good, so maybe the current scouting is working. RD may have made mistakes in the past, player recruitment wise, but is wasn't al bad (see the £20m + i mentioned earlier). Moving them round the network just gets some use out of that investment until they either click or can be offloaded
Its demoralising for the fans and the players but to say its failing or the model needs changing I think you need to look at if from a whole network perspective where you could argue, financially at least, it is working.
Very good analysis and you are right. I was still thinking in the old paradigm.
Not sure if the numbers add up as neatly as you suggest but that is because I just don't know what the numbers are.
As interesting as it is depressing but crucially gets us no nearer knowing how to influence RD.
I have images of a modern day Bauhaus and "towards a new Charlton" manifesto.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
If RD was looking for success on the pitch he would have offered kermy a better contract, in line with what his CEO recommended. He didn't want to because Kermy at his age, would likely have lost value over another year or two and RD is mainly interested in increasing player values.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
Kermogant didn't fit into RD's vision for the club, he was 32 and had spent time out injured on more than one occasion, but do you honestly believe selling him paid for the pitch and the stadium refurbishment? That's farcical!
I agree that RD was very lucky where Riga was concerned, I for one feared the worse at the time.
Peters was always the chosen one, but because RD had to sack Powell half way through the season he had to stick Riga in as a stop gap until the end of the season. Riga was only hired to the end of the season remember.
For me the only real problem is that RD has not given us the new number 9 that we are so desperate for, I still live in hope that he will put that right.
There are so many fans jumping on the 'RD out' bandwagon, this season was always going to be one of consolidation.
When I read of fans not going to games because RD is in charge, that is what I call farcical, man up and support your team through thick and thin, and believe you me, I have seen many, many thin years!
Let's not renew our season, lets have a sit in, lets protest against the terrible RD, lets throw our toys out of the pram because the going is getting tough, that my friend is farcical!!
Well put and that's a great view point, nothing is going to go too wrong in the short term, relegation is a terrible embarrassing situation as a fan and it hurts like fuck but atleast then we will know, personally I don't think that will happen.
The Trust has developed its links with the Standard Socios (their Trust) recently, and last week Steve Clarke and I had a 75 minute chat with Jacques Seron, their chairman. He would disagree with the analysis developing above that suggests RD is starting to make money from football. In the last financial year Standard have made an operating loss of €14m - in other words even worse than at Charlton, so much of the player sales have simply gone to cover that loss. The Socios do assume that the rest of the money helped finance the purchases around Europe but clearly not all of them - indeed not all of Charlton if the reports of the purchase price are correct. Now the problem is that revenue at Standard is falling alarmingly. This season they only had a brief spell in the Europa League, whereas last year they were in the UCL which delivers a lot more revenue. At the moment no-one there expects them to reclaim a UCL spot for the autumn of 2015. This is what makes it even more puzzling. Our talk of being a feeder club for Standard has them laughing grimly in their Duvel.
Ujpest, as we will explain in forthcoming articles, turns out to have been an accidental purchase, and is up for sale. The one that is currently coming good on the pitch at least is STVV, but the Socios are adamant that he will be forced by the Belgian FA to sell one of the two, when, as looks likely, STVV get promoted.
I'm not posting this to start an argument over what has been said above, simply to report that having actually talked to the people on the ground at some of the other clubs, especially Standard, none of us, in Liege or Budapest as well as here, can actually identify the money trail. Our colleagues assume still that his big plan is us, to get us into the FAPL, and cash in on the TV revenue. That of course has us laughing grimly into our London Pride.
Jacques of the Socios is a chartered accountant and is trying to put together a consolidated unofficial Network P&L by getting together the accounts of all the clubs. Unfortunately we cannot yet give them the relevant RD era Charlton figures in detail. But for now, every time we try to follow the money, the trail goes cold. And that is the most baffling thing about the entire RD project.
I think mate if you guys want results then the clubs need to combine, I posted it on the meeting thread to me it's your best form of attack and defense
Essex Al, do i take it you don't think what we got for Yann would have been enough to pay for the pitch etc ?
How about the 700k for Stevens and the 300k for Michael Smith ?
Would that have been enough to sort the pitch out ?
I don't know where those figures have suddenly come from, look rather inflated to me, but how about deducting those figures from the £5 million the club has lost this year first before you consider the £1 million pitch and stadium refurb?
I've given up trying to explain to those with opposite views to me why I don't like my club, Charlton Athletic, being part of a conglomerate model.
Surely the fact we are talking about a model than a football club should be enough to understand why some don't like it, even if you yourself don't mind, don't care.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
If RD was looking for success on the pitch he would have offered kermy a better contract, in line with what his CEO recommended. He didn't want to because Kermy at his age, would likely have lost value over another year or two and RD is mainly interested in increasing player values.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
Kermogant didn't fit into RD's vision for the club, he was 32 and had spent time out injured on more than one occasion, but do you honestly believe selling him paid for the pitch and the stadium refurbishment? That's farcical!
I agree that RD was very lucky where Riga was concerned, I for one feared the worse at the time.
Peters was always the chosen one, but because RD had to sack Powell half way through the season he had to stick Riga in as a stop gap until the end of the season. Riga was only hired to the end of the season remember.
For me the only real problem is that RD has not given us the new number 9 that we are so desperate for, I still live in hope that he will put that right.
There are so many fans jumping on the 'RD out' bandwagon, this season was always going to be one of consolidation.
When I read of fans not going to games because RD is in charge, that is what I call farcical, man up and support your team through thick and thin, and believe you me, I have seen many, many thin years!
Let's not renew our season, lets have a sit in, lets protest against the terrible RD, lets throw our toys out of the pram because the going is getting tough, that my friend is farcical!!
Al, I agree with much of what you say.
I don't believe I mentioned funds from Kermy's sale at all, re the pitch or otherwise.
It's immaterial, what the money was spent on. It's the sheer foolishness of selling your only decent striker, when you are bottom or near bottom of the league. He was "replaced" by Peter Parsley, who I believe actually cost more, but was hardly considered to be of Football League standard by our playing staff. Great network decision !
I agree, re Riga, Peeters and consolidation. I think we all would be reasonably happen with consolidation, but instead we are getting nonsenical football decisions. Manager merry go rounds, players being brought in for the wrong positions to what we need etc.
I have missed 6 home games since 1972 & go to the majority of the aways.
I will continue going to all the homes, but won't be traipsing up north too often to see the boring crap we've been serving up for years (before RD as well).
I will be renewing my S/T I'm quite sure of that.
But I do feel we need to make it clear, that we are extremely unhappy to have an owner, who is more interested in how his players are doing individually as opposed to how the team is doing.
We are not even a feeder club. We haven't got anyone that Standard would actually want.
We are one mans whimsical plaything.
You can appreciate the man for stomping his cash up when we were against it, but that doesn't give him carte Blanche fans approval for how he then runs the club.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
If RD was looking for success on the pitch he would have offered kermy a better contract, in line with what his CEO recommended. He didn't want to because Kermy at his age, would likely have lost value over another year or two and RD is mainly interested in increasing player values.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
For me the only real problem is that RD has not given us the new number 9 that we are so desperate for, I still live in hope that he will put that right.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
If RD was looking for success on the pitch he would have offered kermy a better contract, in line with what his CEO recommended. He didn't want to because Kermy at his age, would likely have lost value over another year or two and RD is mainly interested in increasing player values.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
For me the only real problem is that RD has not given us the new number 9 that we are so desperate for, I still live in hope that he will put that right.
!
Phew. Relax lads, nothing to worry about. :-)
Do you actually have an opinion of your own or do you find it easier to pull one sentence of my post and try to make yourself look funny?
I don't believe I mentioned funds from Kermy's sale at all, re the pitch or otherwise.
It's immaterial, what the money was spent on. It's the sheer foolishness of selling your only decent striker, when you are bottom or near bottom of the league. He was "replaced" by Peter Parsley, who I believe actually cost more, but was hardly considered to be of Football League standard by our playing staff. Great network decision !
I agree, re Riga, Peeters and consolidation. I think we all would be reasonably happen with consolidation, but instead we are getting nonsenical football decisions. Manager merry go rounds, players being brought in for the wrong positions to what we need etc.
I have missed 6 home games since 1972 & go to the majority of the aways.
I will continue going to all the homes, but won't be traipsing up north too often to see the boring crap we've been serving up for years (before RD as well).
I will be renewing my S/T I'm quite sure of that.
But I do feel we need to make it clear, that we are extremely unhappy to have an owner, who is more interested in how his players are doing individually as opposed to how the team is doing.
CE, I was replying to your line ''Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch''. I was assuming you were referring to Kermit.
I really glad you are still going and will be renewing you S/T and are not one of the Lemmings. I can sincerely understand the frustration of fans, from a great start to the season, we are now looking over our shoulders, what I can't get to grips with is the mass hysteria from a large number on here and other sites. As others have stated, and I know its an 'if', but if we had won last Saturday, we would have been twelfth in the table!
I have enjoyed our debate and I am very glad to find out that you are still supporting our team through one of our many thin times.
It beggars belief, it really does. You only have to look at the first post of THIS VERY THREAD to realise the "lemmings" aren't suffering a bout of mass hysteria brought upon by a few bad results.
It beggars belief, it really does. You only have to look at the first post of THIS VERY THREAD to realise the "lemmings" aren't suffering a bout of mass hysteria brought upon by a few bad results.
Perhaps you should read through the other posts properly before you beggar belief!
Essex_Al is entitled to think whatever he wants about RD and the club. As is any fan.
What I take exception to is the patronising presumption that anyone who feels different is simply a hysterical idiot overreacting to a few bad results. That's just not the case.
Feel however you want about it all, just don't presume to know why others feel the way they do.
Essex_Al is entitled to think whatever he wants about RD and the club. As is any fan.
What I take exception to is the patronising presumption that anyone who feels different is simply a hysterical idiot overreacting to a few bad results. That's just not the case.
Feel however you want about it all, just don't presume to know why others feel the way they do.
Works both ways.
'Bury your head in the sand' seems a firm favourite at the moment.
Essex_Al is entitled to think whatever he wants about RD and the club. As is any fan.
What I take exception to is the patronising presumption that anyone who feels different is simply a hysterical idiot overreacting to a few bad results. That's just not the case.
Feel however you want about it all, just don't presume to know why others feel the way they do.
Works both ways.
'Bury your head in the sand' seems a firm favourite at the moment.
Essex_Al is entitled to think whatever he wants about RD and the club. As is any fan.
What I take exception to is the patronising presumption that anyone who feels different is simply a hysterical idiot overreacting to a few bad results. That's just not the case.
Feel however you want about it all, just don't presume to know why others feel the way they do.
Like I have already said, you need to read through all the posts, because if you think my argument is because of a few poor results you are misleading yourself!
Covered End is at present feeling the way you and many others are, but the difference is, and what I respect him for is that he is still going to games and intends to renew his S/T next season.
My point is that I just do not understand the mass hysteria with loads saying they are not going anymore, giving their S/T away and not renewing next season. Its very easy to run away, when the going gets tough!
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
If RD was looking for success on the pitch he would have offered kermy a better contract, in line with what his CEO recommended. He didn't want to because Kermy at his age, would likely have lost value over another year or two and RD is mainly interested in increasing player values.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
For me the only real problem is that RD has not given us the new number 9 that we are so desperate for, I still live in hope that he will put that right.
!
Phew. Relax lads, nothing to worry about. :-)
Do you actually have an opinion of your own or do you find it easier to pull one sentence of my post and try to make yourself look funny?
Sense of humour bypass?
FWIW I think there is something seriously amiss at out football club; giving substance to the fear that the future wellbeing of the club is not of primary concern to the owner, but rather secondary import to his (unstated) overall business plan. It appears at face value that the normal hopes and dreams of the fans are not in synch with the plans of the owner. Maybe those fears are without foundation and an upturn in results will completely change the mood. The evidence to date makes that look unlikely imo. What I do find tiresome is reading patronising drivel about it only being a few bad results and how previous historic crisis were all so much worse; that doesn't recognise and sense that this is a unique and different set of circumstances. For myself, I am not ready to relinquish my season ticket and I'm a little torn with taking assertive action against the owner, just yet. But I do applaud those with the vision to recognise the potential danger and the will to do something about it
Essex_Al is entitled to think whatever he wants about RD and the club. As is any fan.
What I take exception to is the patronising presumption that anyone who feels different is simply a hysterical idiot overreacting to a few bad results. That's just not the case.
Feel however you want about it all, just don't presume to know why others feel the way they do.
Like I have already said, you need to read through all the posts, because if you think my argument is because of a few poor results you are misleading yourself!
Covered End is at present feeling the way you and many others are, but the difference is, and what I respect him for is that he is still going to games and intends to renew his S/T next season.
My point is that I just do not understand the mass hysteria with loads saying they are not going anymore, giving their S/T away and not renewing next season. Its very easy to run away, when the going gets tough!
So stop trying to understand it. If you don't get it, just ignore it. If you don't get it now when there have been months and months of threads and posts from people who have explained countless times why they feel the way they do, then you probably never will. If people feel the need to take these kinds of steps then there is something that is causing this, something is making them feel this way. To write it all off as 'mass hysteria' is disrespectful to other people's feelings in my opinion.
Here's the thing, if those that are choosing what they consider to be pro-active steps to try to force the club to engage or communicate more with the fans, have any level of success, then everyone is a winner. More communication cannot be a bad thing can it?
If I stopped trying to understand it, there would be no debate would there!
I fully understand the need to get RD and KM around the table and support the trust (who I am a member of) in doing so in a sensible manner.
What I fail to understand is the hysteria of a lot of people throwing their toys out of the pram and refusing to support the team at a time when we need the fans most!
There you go, thats it in a nutshell.
Here's the thing, I do however fully agree with your last paragraph!
It gets frustrating when people have given lots of very clear reasons for why they are not happy, but it appears as if these are either ignored or palmed off as some kind of delusion. The fact is, we are all different, and we all experience things in different ways. Just because you're not feeling it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. You just may have a higher tolerance where these kinds of things are concerned. Others may be more sensitive.
I personally feel that by paying up for a season ticket next season I'm somehow giving credence to Duchatelet's way of operating. That doesn't mean to say I'm not going to go to watch games, but I will be steering clear of The Valley for a while and will just concentrate on away games. Any money that goes through the tills at The Valley will make it's way into RD's pockets in some way and I'm not happy about that. I still have a my ST for the rest of this season which I intend to use but I wont be spending money on programs, food, drink, merchandise etc.
Bottom line though, how I choose to follow and support the team isn't really anybody else's business and I don't really care how I'm viewed by other fans as a result of my actions. I'm the one who has to live with any decision I take, nobody else, and I'm happy I've made the right decision.
in fairness Al, you can't really accuse people of being patronising on one hand, then lemmings and throwing their toys out the pram on the other.
Your opinion is different, that's all.
Dan, I can understand the odd one or two not enjoying the football and calling it a day, fair enough! But what I dont get is the amount of people, who call themselves supporters, that have jumped on this bandwagon and are refusing to go. I'm sure a lot of this stems from the way SL fans have behaved in protesting against RD.
My Dad first took me when I was 4 years of age and I'm 61 now. If fans think it is bad now, I can assure them this is nothing!
I certainly do not view Roly through rose tinted glasses, far from it, I am still very cautious where he is concerned, but people have voiced there opinions let CAST deal with it and take it from there.
Perhaps its because I'm an old git who has seen plenty of change over the years, but the one thing is that my support for my club, your club, our club, has never waivered, and it gauls me seeing others chucking the towel in!
Even Dick Plumb, who has my greatest admiration on here and VOTV is not going anymore, so yes, I really must be missing the point!
in fairness Al, you can't really accuse people of being patronising on one hand, then lemmings and throwing their toys out the pram on the other.
Your opinion is different, that's all.
Dan, I can understand the odd one or two not enjoying the football and calling it a day, fair enough! But what I dont get is the amount of people, who call themselves supporters, that have jumped on this bandwagon and are refusing to go. I'm sure a lot of this stems from the way SL fans have behaved in protesting against RD.
My Dad first took me when I was 4 years of age and I'm 61 now. If fans think it is bad now, I can assure them this is nothing!
I certainly do not view Roly through rose tinted glasses, far from it, I am still very cautious where he is concerned, but people have voiced there opinions let CAST deal with it and take it from there.
Perhaps its because I'm an old git who has seen plenty of change over the years, but the one thing is that my support for my club, your club, our club, has never waivered, and it gauls me seeing others chucking the towel in!
Even Dick Plumb, who has my greatest admiration on here and VOTV is not going anymore, so yes, I really must be missing the point!
As you rightly state, my opinion is different!
I am more or less your age with a similar length history.
For me this is the biggest threat to Charlton since the twenties. The 1984 financial mess had Charlton fans waiting to buy and those same owners though mad to leave the valley did so still as fans with football progress as the aim. Roland does not have football success as an aim. The fact you can't see it does not mean the thousands that do are just jumping on a bandwagon. The protestors are supporting the club more than those who go and do nothing on my view
Well, its all about opinions and unfortunately, I dont agree with yours.
How can you say Roland does not have football success as an aim?
Yes, he sees us as a business, and I'm sure he would like to sell us at a profit, but to do that he needs us in the premiership, so he needs us to succeed on the football front in order to achieve this!
I'm still going to go, but as I have already said, I am a member of the trust and I am happy that they will ask the right questions, if and when they can get RD to the table.
Comments
I think relegation would be a significant blow to the plan however. Championship level is I would guess the ideal setting for it to work. He may not 'do' failure but he is prone to the same risk that all businesses face when investing abroad, for example inadequate knowledge of the market. So far his knowledge has proved far from adequate in that respect.
Not sure if the numbers add up as neatly as you suggest but that is because I just don't know what the numbers are.
As interesting as it is depressing but crucially gets us no nearer knowing how to influence RD.
I have images of a modern day Bauhaus and "towards a new Charlton" manifesto.
Kermogant didn't fit into RD's vision for the club, he was 32 and had spent time out injured on more than one occasion, but do you honestly believe selling him paid for the pitch and the stadium refurbishment? That's farcical!
I agree that RD was very lucky where Riga was concerned, I for one feared the worse at the time.
Peters was always the chosen one, but because RD had to sack Powell half way through the season he had to stick Riga in as a stop gap until the end of the season. Riga was only hired to the end of the season remember.
For me the only real problem is that RD has not given us the new number 9 that we are so desperate for, I still live in hope that he will put that right.
There are so many fans jumping on the 'RD out' bandwagon, this season was always going to be one of consolidation.
When I read of fans not going to games because RD is in charge, that is what I call farcical, man up and support your team through thick and thin, and believe you me, I have seen many, many thin years!
Let's not renew our season, lets have a sit in, lets protest against the terrible RD, lets throw our toys out of the pram because the going is getting tough, that my friend is farcical!!
Well put and that's a great view point, nothing is going to go too wrong in the short term, relegation is a terrible embarrassing situation as a fan and it hurts like fuck but atleast then we will know, personally I don't think that will happen.
been enough to pay for the pitch etc ?
How about the 700k for Stevens and the 300k for Michael Smith ?
Would that have been enough to sort the pitch out ?
Ujpest, as we will explain in forthcoming articles, turns out to have been an accidental purchase, and is up for sale. The one that is currently coming good on the pitch at least is STVV, but the Socios are adamant that he will be forced by the Belgian FA to sell one of the two, when, as looks likely, STVV get promoted.
I'm not posting this to start an argument over what has been said above, simply to report that having actually talked to the people on the ground at some of the other clubs, especially Standard, none of us, in Liege or Budapest as well as here, can actually identify the money trail. Our colleagues assume still that his big plan is us, to get us into the FAPL, and cash in on the TV revenue. That of course has us laughing grimly into our London Pride.
Jacques of the Socios is a chartered accountant and is trying to put together a consolidated unofficial Network P&L by getting together the accounts of all the clubs. Unfortunately we cannot yet give them the relevant RD era Charlton figures in detail. But for now, every time we try to follow the money, the trail goes cold. And that is the most baffling thing about the entire RD project.
I've given up trying to explain to those with opposite views to me why I don't like my club, Charlton Athletic, being part of a conglomerate model.
Surely the fact we are talking about a model than a football club should be enough to understand why some don't like it, even if you yourself don't mind, don't care.
I don't believe I mentioned funds from Kermy's sale at all, re the pitch or otherwise.
It's immaterial, what the money was spent on. It's the sheer foolishness of selling your only decent striker, when you are bottom or near bottom of the league. He was "replaced" by Peter Parsley, who I believe actually cost more, but was hardly considered to be of Football League standard by our playing staff. Great network decision !
I agree, re Riga, Peeters and consolidation. I think we all would be reasonably happen with consolidation, but instead we are getting nonsenical football decisions. Manager merry go rounds, players being brought in for the wrong positions to what we need etc.
I have missed 6 home games since 1972 & go to the majority of the aways.
I will continue going to all the homes, but won't be traipsing up north too often to see the boring crap we've been serving up for years (before RD as well).
I will be renewing my S/T I'm quite sure of that.
But I do feel we need to make it clear, that we are extremely unhappy to have an owner, who is more interested in how his players are doing individually as opposed to how the team is doing.
We are one mans whimsical plaything.
You can appreciate the man for stomping his cash up when we were against it, but that doesn't give him carte Blanche fans approval for how he then runs the club.
Al, I agree with much of what you say.
I don't believe I mentioned funds from Kermy's sale at all, re the pitch or otherwise.
It's immaterial, what the money was spent on. It's the sheer foolishness of selling your only decent striker, when you are bottom or near bottom of the league. He was "replaced" by Peter Parsley, who I believe actually cost more, but was hardly considered to be of Football League standard by our playing staff. Great network decision !
I agree, re Riga, Peeters and consolidation. I think we all would be reasonably happen with consolidation, but instead we are getting nonsenical football decisions. Manager merry go rounds, players being brought in for the wrong positions to what we need etc.
I have missed 6 home games since 1972 & go to the majority of the aways.
I will continue going to all the homes, but won't be traipsing up north too often to see the boring crap we've been serving up for years (before RD as well).
I will be renewing my S/T I'm quite sure of that.
But I do feel we need to make it clear, that we are extremely unhappy to have an owner, who is more interested in how his players are doing individually as opposed to how the team is doing.
CE, I was replying to your line
''Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch''.
I was assuming you were referring to Kermit.
I really glad you are still going and will be renewing you S/T and are not one of the Lemmings. I can sincerely understand the frustration of fans, from a great start to the season, we are now looking over our shoulders, what I can't get to grips with is the mass hysteria from a large number on here and other sites. As others have stated, and I know its an 'if', but if we had won last Saturday, we would have been twelfth in the table!
I have enjoyed our debate and I am very glad to find out that you are still supporting our team through one of our many thin times.
Al
What I take exception to is the patronising presumption that anyone who feels different is simply a hysterical idiot overreacting to a few bad results. That's just not the case.
Feel however you want about it all, just don't presume to know why others feel the way they do.
'Bury your head in the sand' seems a firm favourite at the moment.
Covered End is at present feeling the way you and many others are, but the difference is, and what I respect him for is that he is still going to games and intends to renew his S/T next season.
My point is that I just do not understand the mass hysteria with loads saying they are not going anymore, giving their S/T away and not renewing next season. Its very easy to run away, when the going gets tough!
Sense of humour bypass?
FWIW I think there is something seriously amiss at out football club; giving substance to the fear that the future wellbeing of the club is not of primary concern to the owner, but rather secondary import to his (unstated) overall business plan.
It appears at face value that the normal hopes and dreams of the fans are not in synch with the plans of the owner.
Maybe those fears are without foundation and an upturn in results will completely change the mood.
The evidence to date makes that look unlikely imo.
What I do find tiresome is reading patronising drivel about it only being a few bad results and how previous historic crisis were all so much worse; that doesn't recognise and sense that this is a unique and different set of circumstances.
For myself, I am not ready to relinquish my season ticket and I'm a little torn with taking assertive action against the owner, just yet.
But I do applaud those with the vision to recognise the potential danger and the will to do something about it
Here's the thing, if those that are choosing what they consider to be pro-active steps to try to force the club to engage or communicate more with the fans, have any level of success, then everyone is a winner. More communication cannot be a bad thing can it?
If I stopped trying to understand it, there would be no debate would there!
I fully understand the need to get RD and KM around the table and support the trust (who I am a member of) in doing so in a sensible manner.
What I fail to understand is the hysteria of a lot of people throwing their toys out of the pram and refusing to support the team at a time when we need the fans most!
There you go, thats it in a nutshell.
Here's the thing, I do however fully agree with your last paragraph!
Your opinion is different, that's all.
I personally feel that by paying up for a season ticket next season I'm somehow giving credence to Duchatelet's way of operating. That doesn't mean to say I'm not going to go to watch games, but I will be steering clear of The Valley for a while and will just concentrate on away games. Any money that goes through the tills at The Valley will make it's way into RD's pockets in some way and I'm not happy about that. I still have a my ST for the rest of this season which I intend to use but I wont be spending money on programs, food, drink, merchandise etc.
Bottom line though, how I choose to follow and support the team isn't really anybody else's business and I don't really care how I'm viewed by other fans as a result of my actions. I'm the one who has to live with any decision I take, nobody else, and I'm happy I've made the right decision.
My Dad first took me when I was 4 years of age and I'm 61 now. If fans think it is bad now, I can assure them this is nothing!
I certainly do not view Roly through rose tinted glasses, far from it, I am still very cautious where he is concerned, but people have voiced there opinions let CAST deal with it and take it from there.
Perhaps its because I'm an old git who has seen plenty of change over the years, but the one thing is that my support for my club, your club, our club, has never waivered, and it gauls me seeing others chucking the towel in!
Even Dick Plumb, who has my greatest admiration on here and VOTV is not going anymore, so yes, I really must be missing the point!
As you rightly state, my opinion is different!
For me this is the biggest threat to Charlton since the twenties. The 1984 financial mess had Charlton fans waiting to buy and those same owners though mad to leave the valley did so still as fans with football progress as the aim. Roland does not have football success as an aim. The fact you can't see it does not mean the thousands that do are just jumping on a bandwagon. The protestors are supporting the club more than those who go and do nothing on my view
How can you say Roland does not have football success as an aim?
Yes, he sees us as a business, and I'm sure he would like to sell us at a profit, but to do that he needs us in the premiership, so he needs us to succeed on the football front in order to achieve this!
I'm still going to go, but as I have already said, I am a member of the trust and I am happy that they will ask the right questions, if and when they can get RD to the table.