RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
All he cares about is money and how he makes more. That's quite clear. For some deluded reason he thinks the only way to do that is to pressure managers into picking his recycled crap for the first team so he can sell them onto some fools. Someone needs to tell him he'd get a bloody big payday if he actually invested and got us to the Premier League - even if we then lost 38 games and got relegated.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
Seth, I think you're right. I was talking to someone the other day about why Rupert Murdoch doesn't just relax and take it easy now that he's ancient and loaded. It's not just about money is it. It's a game for these people.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
No evidence it is about the money. He has a hobby theory that he can run a football business in a different way than everybody else and he wants to prove it.
There is unfortunately no evidence either that it works.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
Seth, I think you're right. I was talking to someone the other day about why Rupert Murdoch doesn't just relax and take it easy now that he's ancient and loaded. It's not just about money is it. It's a game for these people.
And obsessed with proving that his flawed model is right. It may well work in less competitive countries, but it'll never work in England.
I have absolutely no idea whether there is any veracity to the statement but on what possible level can it be deemed to be self indulgent. 90% of people have no clue as to who the guy is other than he worked for the club. What exactly does he have to gain?
As an employee of the club he is bound by the terms and conditions of employment which incudes implicit confidentiality boundaries. I could argue even as an ex-employee he has breached those terms and conditions.
At one level the statement can be taken "with a pinch of salt". How very philanthropic of M. Duchatelet to provide the community with a nice new pitch and improved seating for people to watch those nice young men have some where to play football - very Corinthian.
At another level it is simply a statement suggesting he is not specifically concerned about any individual result as long as in the long term the club can move forward to become a successful and viable entity.
At a third level it could be construed as constituting a pernicious fraud on any and everyone connected with the club engaged in working toward achieving and supporting a successful winning football club operating in an exceptionally competitive environment.
It then argues to the point made elsewhere if you do not care about the results why then sack two head coaches for poor results.
Of equal if not greater importance is the stance of the CEO as to whether she cares and to what degree she cares about building a winning team and if so how she reconciles such a statement by the owner because taken at face value it argues against the very ethos of professional competitive sport and presents a very serious conflict of interest.
At the very least when you are asking people to pay good money to watch a team compete to win it would be "jolly good form" to let them know that in the end it does not really matter. They then can make the appropriate choice as to whether they could pay considerably less by watching the same endeavour at a County League level where I can guarantee no matter the shortfall in playing talent the result does indeed matter a very great deal.
In any event I thank the young man for his contribution to the debate on the current regime at the club, I suggest it gives us all more food for thought, and sincerely hope he will find a happier working environment in the very near future.
Of the two Charlton 'head coaches' sacked by RD, certainly one wasn't sacked for poor results. In RD's own words, Powell was fired because they "could not reach an agreement over the club's football strategy going forward".
Personally I think Riga wasn't retained at Charlton for the same reason, which makes his popping up at Standard Liege all the more puzzling - unless, of course, SL has seniority in the network and therefore Riga has more autonomy in player recruitment than he would elsewhere. His departure certainly makes little football sense given his success.
I also wonder if Peeters went 'off script' by demanding players of the proper quality, as he indicated in his parting blows. The club did state that it was the poor results that led to his departure, but he seems to imply that the team were in the position he'd been asked to manage them to.
I think RD was waiting for the right moment to relieve Powell of his duties and going out to Sheff United was the right moment for RD. Had we beaten Sheff U that day or draw and gone on to win the replay and gone on to Wembley then Powelly have stayed longer and led us out at Wembley. RD then may well have pulled the plug on Powelly's managership after the semi. He may have stayed on longer. If relegation had been confirmed under Powell then RD might have pulled the plug then. If Powelly had kept us up and stayed till the end of the season, I reckon with Powelly's contract expiring I don't reckon RD would have renewed it. So looking back (as much as I hate to say it) it was a matter of when and not if RD would let Powelly go.
I also think mentally Powell was done as well. Not just under RD, but the whole Jimenez & Slater mess.
Maybe. Possibly from when Kevin Cash pulled out.
Powelly was on shaky ground from the start he wasn't TJ or slaters man
Once Eddie Howe came back for a greedy second bite on his wage demands
Powelly was put in a good place by Varney
Unfortunately if we had Powelly under Murray and by Murray I mean the one who was overseeing curbs not the person who he became under pardont and parkinson, then the story would have been different
sounds like you had insider info at the time ?
When we were interested in Eddie Howe, there were at least 2 other clubs involved. Why wouldn't you want to get the right wages for yourself and your family while your stock is high. (same for YK)
When your stock is low like Roger Johnson, and after making lots of money from his Wolves contract (good for him) he now come's to CAFC on a modest income because being damaged goods he didn't have many takers. (if he buckles down i don't see why he can't be half decent as is only 31)
As a European business man i don't need to tell you any thing about market forces.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
A mate of mine is loaded. he owns several businesses, 10 different properties, a couple of car dealerships and more. He doesnt have to work, BUT he gets up every morning just to make money, its his drug, his reason of living, he told me once that even if he only makes £1 per day, thats one more pound than he had yesterday. They are a different breed to most people.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
No evidence it is about the money. He has a hobby theory that he can run a football business in a different way than everybody else and he wants to prove it.
There is unfortunately no evidence either that it works.
Equally there is evidence that throwing money at the situation doesn't work. At least not for most clubs, long term it causes more harm than good. Chelsea and Man City are in the minority but we can all point to plenty more examples of very rich owners losing a lot of money in football clubs.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
If RD was looking for success on the pitch he would have offered kermy a better contract, in line with what his CEO recommended. He didn't want to because Kermy at his age, would likely have lost value over another year or two and RD is mainly interested in increasing player values.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
No, it's not about the money. He's not in it to make millions. It's about the principle that you can run a successful football club. The problem is RD classes 'success' as turning a (small) profit and his plan is to achieve that primarily through player sales. He has no empathy with sporting fans and their much different view of 'success'. The outcome of any individual game to him is pretty much irrelevant (though possibly not the outcome of the season as this could affect the value of the players). I wonder if he actually has any understanding of the players? Despite their reputation for not being the smartest group of people, it must be evident to the team that they are being treated as a commodity rather than an asset? How do you think THAT sits with a sportsman's ego?
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
It's not money per se.
It's proving that he knows better than anyone else and that he can run a club without losing money.
I agree - Powell had to go as he was never going to be the type of manager Duchatelet wanted. I think it is sad because he suffered from a nightmare season of Delboy then the Belgian. The frustrating thing was he wasn’t far off with a bit of backing. Being forced to play players such as Thuram was ridiculous and approaching a quarter final with the lack of support he did was bordering on the criminal.
Then Riga came in on a hiding to nothing and did a terrific job – I was beside myself when he didn’t get the job which resulted in some arguments and why I stopped posting to this site for a while. Clearly Riga was appointed as a desperate move and was given more autonomy than the owner would probably have liked. This was clear from the fact that network players who Powell was told to play were not played. I assume that Riga would have had an expectation of being kept on with the same autonomy and the Duchatelet didn’t want that.
So we got an unknown who actually didn’t start too badly. And to be fair he was in a position that with a bit of support, he could have taken the club in the right direction. That lack of support for me was as big a reason for his failure as anything – although the zonal marking didn’t help! The closer you look at the way Duchatelet works – the more of a joke he seems to be. I am seriously questioning his sanity at the moment.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
It is far from clear that Kermorgant was offered a contract, but in any event so was Powell. It was then withdrawn. Nobody is making any issue about Hamer or Stephens.
Peeters has a slightly different take on Morrison, I understand, in that RD wanted him out because he didn't want to pay his wages. Of course Morrison wanted to play, but it's chicken and egg. If he isn't playing, he is likely to go.
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
It is far from clear that Kermorgant was offered a contract, but in any event so was Powell. It was then withdrawn. Nobody is making any issue about Hamer or Stephens.
Peeters has a slightly different take on Morrison, I understand, in that RD wanted him out because he didn't want to pay his wages. Of course Morrison wanted to play, but it's chicken and egg. If he isn't playing, he is likely to go.
This seems plausible.If you have a network theory,part if it would be that you do not need spare first team grade players who are not in the team. The theory would be if you need one you just move a spare part from another club, like Watt, draft in a cheap if unfit option,like Johnson or Onyewu, or promote somebody prematurely from the youth team, like KAG.
i dont blame eddie howe in fact he has proven his value fair play to him, it was greedy as we couldnt afford it at the time , at the time he wanted it his stock was not as high as it is now then i felt it was a greedy grab, as he had virtually agreed the wages but returned looking for more
i dont blame eddie howe in fact he has proven his value fair play to him, it was greedy as we couldnt afford it at the time , at the time he wanted it his stock was not as high as it is now then i felt it was a greedy grab, as he had virtually agreed the wages but returned looking for more
I still struggle with the money thing. Is it really about the money? The guy is loaded already, can it really be about getting more dosh. I'd have thought football was a very capricious area to get into to make any money.
A mate of mine is loaded. he owns several businesses, 10 different properties, a couple of car dealerships and more. He doesnt have to work, BUT he gets up every morning just to make money, its his drug, his reason of living, he told me once that even if he only makes £1 per day, thats one more pound than he had yesterday. They are a different breed to most people.
I'm sure most on here have either worked for or know this type of person.
Money, power and Kudos as well.
Roland is going for the small corner shops rather than Harrods,
Money to be made, moderate.(unless you hit prem) Power, well his word is law. Kudos, hardly any.
Is it worth the aggro from Standard fans and maybe CAFC fans soon?
RD isn't really bothered if we win, lose or draw. Yes, he would have to be a complete imbecile to want us to lose, but he's not that bothered.
Why ?
He's not that bothered, because his "goal" is to break even or make money from football & he is not going to do that by copying the other clubs, who nearly all lose millions.
He plans to do it, by developing the academy & selling the youngsters on for a tidy profit.
This is why, not only have we had excellent young players, in the team this season such as Gomez.
But we've also had others such as Ahearne-Grant & Pope pushed forwards, when they aren't ready.
Not forgetting recently, that I think, our whole bench was academy or very recent academy players.
If RD really cared about winning,(bearing in mind he is a multi millionaire, what is it 11th richest man in Belgium?), why did he sell Kermy our only decent striker and instead of replacing him, he brings in a goalkeeper.
We still haven't a "centre forward" of that ilk, a year later, but we're getting plenty of goalkeepers.
Not good goalkeepers, I might add.
He is using us to buy and sell players, to make money.
We all know that you won't make money the tried & tested way.
However, what he can't get his "robotic emotionless" brain around, is that competitive professional sport is all about trying to win. This is what every fa/customer wants.
We don't not want an owner, that isn't bothered whether we win or not, as long as we've played some 3rd rate goalie, in order, that he can then sell him. He likely won't sell them if they are playing as an overage player in the U21's.
Virtually everyone can see we need a hold up man up front & a creative midfielder.
RD knows that because Peeters stated that he'd told him what he wanted.
What do we get ?
A goalkeeper, a centre half that's not even training with his 1st team & 2 defensive midfielders.
Now I really hope they are all a great success, but they are not what we "needed".
If you go to your boss at work and say to get this job properly I need 2 brickies and the multi millionaire says you can't have them, but you can have a couple of plasterers that were not performing at my other outlet, what would you think ?
I really can't understand why some people do not understand this. Is it really that difficult to understand ?
How can we have a good team morale, when the players are aware that the boss doesn't really give a stuff about results, as lond as he can flog them for a profit ?
Would you join Charlton as a player, knowing that he'll try & flog you to the network, if he can turn a profit and that your teammates, won't be teammates for long ?
In summary, even if we were relegated, how does this stop RD's plan. I don't see that it does.
His ridiculous methods are clearly a danger to this club and we need to make it clear, that we are far from happy.
RD & KM won't engage in conversation, because it's not possible to credibly make a case for his plan, that any club supporters in the world would be happy to accept.
I don't feel we can change him, but we can at least try and make it crystal clear, what we think of his crazy idea.
How many more times are people going to spout on about Kermit?
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
I agree about kermit but people aren't saying 'why sell him' I understand why he did that, but a year on and he's still not been replaced! Wtf!
Covered end - excellent post although perhaps the reference to Kermorgant will distract others from the very cogent appraisal you have put forward.
I am not sure there is any benefit to return to the departure of Kermorgant, which I have repeatedly sought to position as notably more complex than many would wish to believe.
Rikofold - I was of the impression the full quote on the departure of Powell was indeed "they could not agree on the football strategy going forward, which was beginning to impact results which he could not allow to continue". However I stand to be corrected.
@Grapevine49 You might be right. I was relying on the club's statement at the time but it might have been truncated. Re-reading it their account is a little inconsistent. Firstly they're working with him on a new contract but couldn't agree on the football strategy, then there's a bit about a strained working relationship, but then tacked on almost incongruously is stuff about the position in the table. Who knows, eh?
Things aren't right or acceptable in some respects. But statements like "he doesn't want to win " are just soundbites.
He clearly only wants to win 'his way' (and so far that's not looking achievable). Which leaves us to see whether he knows how to turn things around. Plenty of successful business leaders struggle to deal with situations where they are going backwards or are up against it, because they are used to only batting on good wickets
It had everything to do with it, lack of pride self respect and respect to the thousands who travelled
Save the psychological babble for those that want it and if our players need it that bad our recruitment policy is wrong and we need more selfish and driven players in the future
I'm fully with NLA here. It's all about personal pride. When I was under the threat of redundancy it didn't stop me doing my job properly especially as I wouldn't have wanted to let down the rest of our small team. Managers come, managers go in football. It's the game these days. If you can't get yourself up to win a game which could get you to a FA Cup semi-final, if you can't perform for 6,000 fans who have travelled to watch you play, then maybe you are in the wrong profession.
Agreed. When we were under threat of redundancy, we hit record breaking figures. Our attitude was "you want to get rid of us after pulling of the best performance in the history of the company?" and funnily enough, we're all still here.
It's just a shame I'd bite my arm off for redundancy now!
Redundancy might be out of the question, but if you did that you could go for disability
Covered end - excellent post although perhaps the reference to Kermorgant will distract others from the very cogent appraisal you have put forward.
I am not sure there is any benefit to return to the departure of Kermorgant, which I have repeatedly sought to position as notably more complex than many would wish to believe.
Rikofold - I was of the impression the full quote on the departure of Powell was indeed "they could not agree on the football strategy going forward, which was beginning to impact results which he could not allow to continue". However I stand to be corrected.
For what it's worth - the full quotes from Duchatelet are still on the CAFC website and they do not include the words that you have added in bold:
It still doesn't make sense but relegation does hurt him as TV and other income drops so that means he needs to cover more costs and/or make more cuts but there is no more flash on the non-playing bone to cut.
I don't think he wants to lose, he wants to win "Roland doesn't do failure" as KM told us last year.
Only winning or perhaps success is a better word is different to him that for most of us.
As fans most of want to win games, cups and promotions.
For RD I think success is proving that his model works, that there is a different and better way to run football clubs.
The problem is that most people would, when the model isn't working, change the model but it seems Roland just keeps right on.
And it could be a workable model. Most of ingredients are there, the clubs, the spending money for young talent, the lack of emotional attachment to a particular club and not being worried if the fans love him or not. Workable for RD, not for us fans though.
What is missing is that for this model to work you need to be really, really good at talent spotting the best value players and at spotting the best coaches. Not just good but the best in the game.
And we're nowhere near that.
Who says the model isn't working? It depends on how you classify success and what your timeframe is.
Its not working for Charlton, but its worked at Standard Liege. He got £20m plus from player sales there that provided the working capital for his spending spree that included purchasing us, Alcaron and Jenna plus, I think and investment (but not control) in a Dutch club. That didn't happen in a year. It took him a few years, a few coaches and I'm sure a turn over of players to get SL to that point and then he cashed in his chips. Now they have slid down the division, fans are up in arms etc but he's still quids in and I'm sure they will build a team again and 3 or 4 years down the line SL will be topping the division with a good young squad and I'm sure he'll cash in again.
Since he's joined us none of the decisions make sense from a football point of view, but financially he's doing very well out of Charlton. Sure we are making an operating loss and he's invested in a new pitch and some non network new players. However if you add back the costs of the network players (and staff), which were sunk costs as far as the network is concerned and offset the money we got for Kermy, Stephens and Poyet are we making an operating loss? and what really is the nett investment. Also, of the players brought in, have any of them really depreciated in value? Even Peter Parsley has been banging them in for St Truden so has maintained at least some of his value.
From a Charlton centric point of view this isn't working, we've not got the right players in the right positions but, by and large, the wrong players are all from the network (sunk costs). The non network players RD have paid real money for have been good, so maybe the current scouting is working. RD may have made mistakes in the past, player recruitment wise, but is wasn't al bad (see the £20m + i mentioned earlier). Moving them round the network just gets some use out of that investment until they either click or can be offloaded
Its demoralising for the fans and the players but to say its failing or the model needs changing I think you need to look at if from a whole network perspective where you could argue, financially at least, it is working.
It still doesn't make sense but relegation does hurt him as TV and other income drops so that means he needs to cover more costs and/or make more cuts but there is no more flash on the non-playing bone to cut.
I don't think he wants to lose, he wants to win "Roland doesn't do failure" as KM told us last year.
Only winning or perhaps success is a better word is different to him that for most of us.
As fans most of want to win games, cups and promotions.
For RD I think success is proving that his model works, that there is a different and better way to run football clubs.
The problem is that most people would, when the model isn't working, change the model but it seems Roland just keeps right on.
And it could be a workable model. Most of ingredients are there, the clubs, the spending money for young talent, the lack of emotional attachment to a particular club and not being worried if the fans love him or not. Workable for RD, not for us fans though.
What is missing is that for this model to work you need to be really, really good at talent spotting the best value players and at spotting the best coaches. Not just good but the best in the game.
And we're nowhere near that.
Who says the model isn't working? It depends on how you classify success and what your timeframe is.
Its not working for Charlton, but its worked at Standard Liege. He got £20m plus from player sales there that provided the working capital for his spending spree that included purchasing us, Alcaron and Jenna plus, I think and investment (but not control) in a Dutch club. That didn't happen in a year. It took him a few years, a few coaches and I'm sure a turn over of players to get SL to that point and then he cashed in his chips. Now they have slid down the division, fans are up in arms etc but he's still quids in and I'm sure they will build a team again and 3 or 4 years down the line SL will be topping the division with a good young squad and I'm sure he'll cash in again.
Since he's joined us none of the decisions make sense from a football point of view, but financially he's doing very well out of Charlton. Sure we are making an operating loss and he's invested in a new pitch and some non network new players. However if you add back the costs of the network players (and staff), which were sunk costs as far as the network is concerned and offset the money we got for Kermy, Stephens and Poyet are we making an operating loss? and what really is the nett investment. Also, of the players brought in, have any of them really depreciated in value? Even Peter Parsley has been banging them in for St Truden so has maintained at least some of his value.
From a Charlton centric point of view this isn't working, we've not got the right players in the right positions but, by and large, the wrong players are all from the network (sunk costs). The non network players RD have paid real money for have been good, so maybe the current scouting is working. RD may have made mistakes in the past, player recruitment wise, but is wasn't al bad (see the £20m + i mentioned earlier). Moving them round the network just gets some use out of that investment until they either click or can be offloaded
Its demoralising for the fans and the players but to say its failing or the model needs changing I think you need to look at if from a whole network perspective where you could argue, financially at least, it is working.
I think when people say the model isn't working, they mean it with regards to Charlton, what's happening to our team, our club, results, transfers etc.
It still doesn't make sense but relegation does hurt him as TV and other income drops so that means he needs to cover more costs and/or make more cuts but there is no more flash on the non-playing bone to cut.
I don't think he wants to lose, he wants to win "Roland doesn't do failure" as KM told us last year.
Only winning or perhaps success is a better word is different to him that for most of us.
As fans most of want to win games, cups and promotions.
For RD I think success is proving that his model works, that there is a different and better way to run football clubs.
The problem is that most people would, when the model isn't working, change the model but it seems Roland just keeps right on.
And it could be a workable model. Most of ingredients are there, the clubs, the spending money for young talent, the lack of emotional attachment to a particular club and not being worried if the fans love him or not. Workable for RD, not for us fans though.
What is missing is that for this model to work you need to be really, really good at talent spotting the best value players and at spotting the best coaches. Not just good but the best in the game.
And we're nowhere near that.
Who says the model isn't working? It depends on how you classify success and what your timeframe is.
Its not working for Charlton, but its worked at Standard Liege. He got £20m plus from player sales there that provided the working capital for his spending spree that included purchasing us, Alcaron and Jenna plus, I think and investment (but not control) in a Dutch club. That didn't happen in a year. It took him a few years, a few coaches and I'm sure a turn over of players to get SL to that point and then he cashed in his chips. Now they have slid down the division, fans are up in arms etc but he's still quids in and I'm sure they will build a team again and 3 or 4 years down the line SL will be topping the division with a good young squad and I'm sure he'll cash in again.
Since he's joined us none of the decisions make sense from a football point of view, but financially he's doing very well out of Charlton. Sure we are making an operating loss and he's invested in a new pitch and some non network new players. However if you add back the costs of the network players (and staff), which were sunk costs as far as the network is concerned and offset the money we got for Kermy, Stephens and Poyet are we making an operating loss? and what really is the nett investment. Also, of the players brought in, have any of them really depreciated in value? Even Peter Parsley has been banging them in for St Truden so has maintained at least some of his value.
From a Charlton centric point of view this isn't working, we've not got the right players in the right positions but, by and large, the wrong players are all from the network (sunk costs). The non network players RD have paid real money for have been good, so maybe the current scouting is working. RD may have made mistakes in the past, player recruitment wise, but is wasn't al bad (see the £20m + i mentioned earlier). Moving them round the network just gets some use out of that investment until they either click or can be offloaded
Its demoralising for the fans and the players but to say its failing or the model needs changing I think you need to look at if from a whole network perspective where you could argue, financially at least, it is working.
Very interesting to read. Do you think it matters if people actually turn up to make the financial shebang 'work', or do you think, that maybe Roland thinks, that fans are irrelevant?
Is it possible to quantify the 'contribution' of the fans beyond ticket sales?
I actually don't think that Roland sees fans as particularly relevant in whatever it is he is doing, the crowds at Carl Jeiss, and Alcocon and Ujpest (?) are surely a marginal factor when it comes to Roland considering how those clubs contribute to the network.
It could well be that Roland's plan has accounted for empty stadiums.
Comments
Oh and nice use of the NLA post template.
He was offered another contract, that HE chose not to sign. Don't blame RD for getting a few quid for him when it was Kermogant that was chasing the money!!
The same applies to Hamer and the idiot that wanted to go back up North and ended up at Brighton. They were chasing the money and didn't want to be here any more.
Morrison went for footballing reasons, he actually wanted to play! Peters didn't rate him, it happens.
Every club in the land would try to get a few bob for a player that is unhappy and wants to leave, but of course RD is totally to blame!
Get real!!
There is unfortunately no evidence either that it works.
Personally I think Riga wasn't retained at Charlton for the same reason, which makes his popping up at Standard Liege all the more puzzling - unless, of course, SL has seniority in the network and therefore Riga has more autonomy in player recruitment than he would elsewhere. His departure certainly makes little football sense given his success.
I also wonder if Peeters went 'off script' by demanding players of the proper quality, as he indicated in his parting blows. The club did state that it was the poor results that led to his departure, but he seems to imply that the team were in the position he'd been asked to manage them to.
Even the great RD can't turn academy players, into players worth millions in a year.
I'm not sure why you're trying to be so dense, unless you are trolling. But you say you are not.
NB The fact that you lol'd my post says a lot more about you than me I'm sorry to say.
sounds like you had insider info at the time ?
When we were interested in Eddie Howe, there were at least 2 other clubs involved. Why wouldn't you want to get the right wages for yourself and your family while your stock is high. (same for YK)
When your stock is low like Roger Johnson, and after making lots of money from his Wolves contract (good for him) he now come's to CAFC on a modest income because being damaged goods he didn't have many takers.
(if he buckles down i don't see why he can't be half decent as is only 31)
As a European business man i don't need to tell you any thing about market forces.
I really can't believe that you can't understand.
Flog your only decent forward, who was still in contract until the end of the season, to pay for the pitch.
RD was damn lucky that Riga performed a minor miracle in keeping us up.
RD was so pleased with Riga, that he "let him go", because he wasn't good enough for Charlton, Peeters was better.
He then sacks Peeters and appoints Riga to Liege.
It's farcial and if you can't see that then there's nothing I or anyone else can say, that will convince you.
He has no empathy with sporting fans and their much different view of 'success'. The outcome of any individual game to him is pretty much irrelevant (though possibly not the outcome of the season as this could affect the value of the players).
I wonder if he actually has any understanding of the players? Despite their reputation for not being the smartest group of people, it must be evident to the team that they are being treated as a commodity rather than an asset?
How do you think THAT sits with a sportsman's ego?
It's proving that he knows better than anyone else and that he can run a club without losing money.
Then Riga came in on a hiding to nothing and did a terrific job – I was beside myself when he didn’t get the job which resulted in some arguments and why I stopped posting to this site for a while. Clearly Riga was appointed as a desperate move and was given more autonomy than the owner would probably have liked. This was clear from the fact that network players who Powell was told to play were not played. I assume that Riga would have had an expectation of being kept on with the same autonomy and the Duchatelet didn’t want that.
So we got an unknown who actually didn’t start too badly. And to be fair he was in a position that with a bit of support, he could have taken the club in the right direction. That lack of support for me was as big a reason for his failure as anything – although the zonal marking didn’t help! The closer you look at the way Duchatelet works – the more of a joke he seems to be. I am seriously questioning his sanity at the moment.
Peeters has a slightly different take on Morrison, I understand, in that RD wanted him out because he didn't want to pay his wages. Of course Morrison wanted to play, but it's chicken and egg. If he isn't playing, he is likely to go.
Money, power and Kudos as well.
Roland is going for the small corner shops rather than Harrods,
Money to be made, moderate.(unless you hit prem)
Power, well his word is law.
Kudos, hardly any.
Is it worth the aggro from Standard fans and maybe CAFC fans soon?
I am not sure there is any benefit to return to the departure of Kermorgant, which I have repeatedly sought to position as notably more complex than many would wish to believe.
Rikofold - I was of the impression the full quote on the departure of Powell was indeed "they could not agree on the football strategy going forward, which was beginning to impact results which he could not allow to continue". However I stand to be corrected.
He clearly only wants to win 'his way' (and so far that's not looking achievable). Which leaves us to see whether he knows how to turn things around. Plenty of successful business leaders struggle to deal with situations where they are going backwards or are up against it, because they are used to only batting on good wickets
http://www.cafc.co.uk/news/article/20140310-chris-powell-leaves-charlton-1411657.aspx?utm_content=buffer8a4a3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#sMmg3Ie7PeFoYSzb.99
Its not working for Charlton, but its worked at Standard Liege. He got £20m plus from player sales there that provided the working capital for his spending spree that included purchasing us, Alcaron and Jenna plus, I think and investment (but not control) in a Dutch club. That didn't happen in a year. It took him a few years, a few coaches and I'm sure a turn over of players to get SL to that point and then he cashed in his chips. Now they have slid down the division, fans are up in arms etc but he's still quids in and I'm sure they will build a team again and 3 or 4 years down the line SL will be topping the division with a good young squad and I'm sure he'll cash in again.
Since he's joined us none of the decisions make sense from a football point of view, but financially he's doing very well out of Charlton. Sure we are making an operating loss and he's invested in a new pitch and some non network new players. However if you add back the costs of the network players (and staff), which were sunk costs as far as the network is concerned and offset the money we got for Kermy, Stephens and Poyet are we making an operating loss? and what really is the nett investment. Also, of the players brought in, have any of them really depreciated in value? Even Peter Parsley has been banging them in for St Truden so has maintained at least some of his value.
From a Charlton centric point of view this isn't working, we've not got the right players in the right positions but, by and large, the wrong players are all from the network (sunk costs). The non network players RD have paid real money for have been good, so maybe the current scouting is working. RD may have made mistakes in the past, player recruitment wise, but is wasn't al bad (see the £20m + i mentioned earlier). Moving them round the network just gets some use out of that investment until they either click or can be offloaded
Its demoralising for the fans and the players but to say its failing or the model needs changing I think you need to look at if from a whole network perspective where you could argue, financially at least, it is working.
Is it possible to quantify the 'contribution' of the fans beyond ticket sales?
I actually don't think that Roland sees fans as particularly relevant in whatever it is he is doing, the crowds at Carl Jeiss, and Alcocon and Ujpest (?) are surely a marginal factor when it comes to Roland considering how those clubs contribute to the network.
It could well be that Roland's plan has accounted for empty stadiums.