Exactly the devils advocate point I was going to make. Morrison was effectively given to a league rival, strengthening them and weakening us, just to get off wage bill. If RD has the clout to hold out for higher fees as suggested, and his model is selling players at a profit, then this business play was contradictory to that.
Exactly the devils advocate point I was going to make. Morrison was effectively given to a league rival, strengthening them and weakening us, just to get off wage bill. If RD has the clout to hold out for higher fees as suggested, and his model is selling players at a profit, then this business play was contradictory to that.
Exactly. Which is why I don't buy it for a second.
I would also add that it only takes one Gareth Bale as someone else had referenced. However, without wanting to write off our youth production line, I'm not seeing any of the current crop (aside from Gomez - maybe) that are going to make him money.
I know he has only just started to invest in our youth set up and according to what people have said on here wants to monetise the benefits of that investment, yet will we really produce enough to make him money.
Take Cousins, I think he's okay, but I don't think he's going to yield the millions RD is thinking English prospects command.
I mean we have had the likes of Shelvey and Jenkinson in recent years, but we've also had the likes of Piggott, Azeez and Rashid Yousef.
I'm not convinced we'll be the centre of excellence for this youth model to generate a huge profit. Add to the fact we might be in League 2 in a couple of seasons, makes no sense to me
I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.
However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.
That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.
I really don't know the numbers, but is it possible that all FAPL does is to increase turnover and expenditure in equal measure. United apart, how many FAPL clubs make a surplus that doesn't get ploughed back just to keep them there? If all the Sky money does is to inflate the price of players, their wages and agents fees, do owners actually earn any more? Just a question, but if RD thinks that way it might explain something.
I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.
However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.
That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.
I really don't know the numbers, but is it possible that all FAPL does is to increase turnover and expenditure in equal measure. United apart, how many FAPL clubs make a surplus that doesn't get ploughed back just to keep them there? If all the Sky money does is to inflate the price of players, their wages and agents fees, do owners actually earn any more? Just a question, but if RD thinks that way it might explain something.
This is a view I've always held. People just see the £120m (or whatever it is now) revenue that the Premier League brings, but it is extremely unlikely that you'll be seeing £120m profit.
Look at the sort of people that buy Premier League clubs nowadays - they are either from the middle east with basically unlimited funds looking to promote themselves/their country, American investors looking to expand their sports empire or Russian oligarch types with "different" motives. If RD's plan is to get Charlton into the Premier League and they sell to one of these types then he has a funny way of going about it.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone with a brain would try and make money from football.
I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.
However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.
That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.
I really don't know the numbers, but is it possible that all FAPL does is to increase turnover and expenditure in equal measure. United apart, how many FAPL clubs make a surplus that doesn't get ploughed back just to keep them there? If all the Sky money does is to inflate the price of players, their wages and agents fees, do owners actually earn any more? Just a question, but if RD thinks that way it might explain something.
Yes, but it will push up the value of the club, not least because of the guaranteed five-year revenue stream even if you are relegated in the first year. Getting relegated from the PL in year one can make sound financial sense if your motives are short-term enrichment.
However, relegation from the Championship makes no sense in any scenario, since you can't reduce your fixed costs, or at least not in proportion to the reduction in revenue. If RD wanted that he would have gone for it in 2014, because it would at least have reduced what he had to pay TJ/MS.
The problem he has is that even the player farming model is unlikely to break even, although he may or may not have accepted that yet.
I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.
However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.
That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.
I really don't know the numbers, but is it possible that all FAPL does is to increase turnover and expenditure in equal measure. United apart, how many FAPL clubs make a surplus that doesn't get ploughed back just to keep them there? If all the Sky money does is to inflate the price of players, their wages and agents fees, do owners actually earn any more? Just a question, but if RD thinks that way it might explain something.
It's a good point - the Bundesliga is considerably more profitable that the Premiership, but has less than 75% of its TV income I believe - but what if RD's is a mid-term plan with the exit being to sell a Premiership club? Slowly build the infrastructure, slowly build the squad, then push for promotion and get ready to sell at optimum value - everything in place, including a minimum £99m TV income, and no obligation to build the club yourself from that point. The young players simply keep recruitment costs down and provide an opportunity for sales to offset losses in the meantime.
The problem with the youth academy production line debate is the fact that RD will have to wait a minimum of two years to benefit from any real talent - 5th December 2016 to be precise , the opening of the new training ground and academy centre!
Is he truly willing to bank roll and not invest in a struggling team whatever the division ? Surely not ... If and when we get cat:A academy status then this supposed plan is easier but until then ( if the plan is to merely sell youth talent ) there is a say 5 year period that should be very flexible and open to direction ... Football is a funny old game and in 3 years we could be either euro-league or league 2 - now which scenario is going to attract the best talent to buy and sell ?!
This is why we need to try and take action to convince/push RD to get us as high as possible in the 5 year flexible period : effectively us find helping his investment!
Im not going to be able to make this meeting. Im really sorry about this, but its not often my two young nephews come down to stay with me and thats the day my sister has chosen. I dont like to say to her no as i only see them about twice a year. I feel like a let down as i wholeheartedly support this meeting.
Im not going to be able to make this meeting. Im really sorry about this, but its not often my two young nephews come down to stay with me and thats the day my sister has chosen. I dont like to say to her no as i only see them about twice a year. I feel like a let down as i wholeheartedly support this meeting.
Good luck with it.
That's a real shame. Mainly as I was counting on you as a post meeting drinking partner!
It may only take one Gareth Bale, but I have searched through my records and the sum total of players who have been sold for that amount of money is erm one !!!!
Im not going to be able to make this meeting. Im really sorry about this, but its not often my two young nephews come down to stay with me and thats the day my sister has chosen. I dont like to say to her no as i only see them about twice a year. I feel like a let down as i wholeheartedly support this meeting.
Good luck with it.
That's a real shame. Mainly as I was counting on you as a post meeting drinking partner!
Aaaah Haaa! It's all coming out now. This 'future of our club' meeting is just a big guise for our most esteemed moderator to have a few beers. If it's not signalling problems on Network SouthEastern, he'll find something else..........
It may only take one Gareth Bale, but I have searched through my records and the sum total of players who have been sold for that amount of money is erm one !!!!
Without sounding too cliched it's probably a case of quality not quantity. By quality I don't mean that everyone there needs to come up with brilliant ideas, they don't all even need to speak, they just need to be open minded and prepared to listen to their fellow supporters.
But to answer your question properly I'd expect a minimum 100 people, hopefully more and the venue has a big capacity. A lot depends on getting our message out on Saturday because a message on Internet forums will only reach so many.
To that end, anyone who has a spare half hour between 1.30-3pm would be gratefully appreciated if they helped us hand out some of our flyers.
I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.
However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.
That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.
I really don't know the numbers, but is it possible that all FAPL does is to increase turnover and expenditure in equal measure. United apart, how many FAPL clubs make a surplus that doesn't get ploughed back just to keep them there? If all the Sky money does is to inflate the price of players, their wages and agents fees, do owners actually earn any more? Just a question, but if RD thinks that way it might explain something.
The last published figures showed that 8 out of the 20 clubs actually made a profit, the rest basically made a loss.
I don't think it's primarily the youngsters he's looking to cash in on.
It's the likes of Vetokele and Gudmondson that he really thinks he can make a few quid on. Players that have probably been looked at by prem clubs in the past but none have made offers. Roland's idea is to get them over, settle them in England hand hope they flourish and then back come the Prem clubs, who would be getting a player that is more used to the English game and who are settled with their families in the English way of life.
I believe one of the reasons Bob got the boot was the fact that the goals had dried up for Vetokele and Roland could see one of his pay days slipping away so held him responsible. Either way you look at it,we are now a shop window club imo,that will see very little of any money made should we have a Gem in the 'shop'. Not good.
Exactly the devils advocate point I was going to make. Morrison was effectively given to a league rival, strengthening them and weakening us, just to get off wage bill. If RD has the clout to hold out for higher fees as suggested, and his model is selling players at a profit, then this business play was contradictory to that.
Exactly. Which is why I don't buy it for a second.
It's a good point about Morrison' case contradicting the theory. However if you look at what he has done at Standard, it may seem more plausible, and the guy NLA spoke to will have a Belgian perspective first and foremost. Then again, Standard are making a bigger operating loss than we are in the most recent figures. There have been two waves of player sales at Standard. The first wave may have had the consequence he didn't expect - failure in Europe, which cuts into subsequent operating revenue.
Whatever his plan is, the only certain fact is that it is failing at every club except Sint-Truiden, which unfortunately is a club where we currently have no fan group links….
Exactly the devils advocate point I was going to make. Morrison was effectively given to a league rival, strengthening them and weakening us, just to get off wage bill. If RD has the clout to hold out for higher fees as suggested, and his model is selling players at a profit, then this business play was contradictory to that.
Exactly. Which is why I don't buy it for a second.
It's a good point about Morrison' case contradicting the theory. However if you look at what he has done at Standard, it may seem more plausible, and the guy NLA spoke to will have a Belgian perspective first and foremost. Then again, Standard are making a bigger operating loss than we are in the most recent figures. There have been two waves of player sales at Standard. The first wave may have had the consequence he didn't expect - failure in Europe, which cuts into subsequent operating revenue.
Whatever his plan is, the only certain fact is that it is failing at every club except Sint-Truiden, which unfortunately is a club where we currently have no fan group links….
Didn't they get relegated last season or am I thinking of another network club?
If they did then arguably his plan has failed there too....
Exactly the devils advocate point I was going to make. Morrison was effectively given to a league rival, strengthening them and weakening us, just to get off wage bill. If RD has the clout to hold out for higher fees as suggested, and his model is selling players at a profit, then this business play was contradictory to that.
Has it actually been stated anywhere that Morrison was 'given' away?
The political party Duchatelet set up in Belgium, Vivant? Does this still exsist? Was it ever taken at all seriously over there? Somebody one said he wrote some books on politics, again were they taken seriously or just the ramblings of an Icke type charactor? I'm just trying to work out what we are dealing with here, other than he is rich and likes to control.
Comments
I know he has only just started to invest in our youth set up and according to what people have said on here wants to monetise the benefits of that investment, yet will we really produce enough to make him money.
Take Cousins, I think he's okay, but I don't think he's going to yield the millions RD is thinking English prospects command.
I mean we have had the likes of Shelvey and Jenkinson in recent years, but we've also had the likes of Piggott, Azeez and Rashid Yousef.
I'm not convinced we'll be the centre of excellence for this youth model to generate a huge profit. Add to the fact we might be in League 2 in a couple of seasons, makes no sense to me
Look at the sort of people that buy Premier League clubs nowadays - they are either from the middle east with basically unlimited funds looking to promote themselves/their country, American investors looking to expand their sports empire or Russian oligarch types with "different" motives. If RD's plan is to get Charlton into the Premier League and they sell to one of these types then he has a funny way of going about it.
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone with a brain would try and make money from football.
However, relegation from the Championship makes no sense in any scenario, since you can't reduce your fixed costs, or at least not in proportion to the reduction in revenue. If RD wanted that he would have gone for it in 2014, because it would at least have reduced what he had to pay TJ/MS.
The problem he has is that even the player farming model is unlikely to break even, although he may or may not have accepted that yet.
Is he truly willing to bank roll and not invest in a struggling team whatever the division ? Surely not ...
If and when we get cat:A academy status then this supposed plan is easier but until then ( if the plan is to merely sell youth talent ) there is a say 5 year period that should be very flexible and open to direction ...
Football is a funny old game and in 3 years we could be either euro-league or league 2 - now which scenario is going to attract the best talent to buy and sell ?!
This is why we need to try and take action to convince/push RD to get us as high as possible in the 5 year flexible period : effectively us find helping his investment!
Get 'ya money out Roly !
Good luck with it.
What would be a 'good' turnout?
What is considered to be poor/apathetic ?
But to answer your question properly I'd expect a minimum 100 people, hopefully more and the venue has a big capacity. A lot depends on getting our message out on Saturday because a message on Internet forums will only reach so many.
To that end, anyone who has a spare half hour between 1.30-3pm would be gratefully appreciated if they helped us hand out some of our flyers.
WayneK I've noticed I have been stuck on 666 for a few days now. I need to start cracking some funnies!
It's the likes of Vetokele and Gudmondson that he really thinks he can make a few quid on. Players that have probably been looked at by prem clubs in the past but none have made offers.
Roland's idea is to get them over, settle them in England hand hope they flourish and then back come the Prem clubs, who would be getting a player that is more used to the English game and who are settled with their families in the English way of life.
I believe one of the reasons Bob got the boot was the fact that the goals had dried up for Vetokele and Roland could see one of his pay days slipping away so held him responsible.
Either way you look at it,we are now a shop window club imo,that will see very little of any money made should we have a Gem in the 'shop'. Not good.
Whatever his plan is, the only certain fact is that it is failing at every club except Sint-Truiden, which unfortunately is a club where we currently have no fan group links….
If they did then arguably his plan has failed there too....