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Trust Calls Public Meeting of Fans - Woolwich Grand Theatre – Wed 18th Feb 7.30pm

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  • While I commend the idea, what is this looking to achieve? It's been said before that KM doesn't recognise the trust, so in theory, you could attend this meeting, come up with a strategy, approach the club only to be told no.

    RD clearly isn't interested in the fans, look at Liege as an example of this, we are his plaything & like Mike Ashley at Newcastle, he doesn't give a toss what the fans think

    And this is the crux of the issue.

    Whilst the people leading this are doing it for the right reasons I firmly believe this is a battle they can't win.

    Roland has not reacted to "heavy duty" direct action from Liege fans and he won't react to a set of fans sounding off in a hall in Woolwich.

    When he and the rest of the club don't react or acknowledge the meeting where do you go then?

    Unless you find a very rich man to back you and launch a buy out (even then my feeling is out of sheer bloody mindedness RD wouldn't entertain selling to you) you are pissing in the wind.


    Number one priority has to be for him to realise his network will not and does not work in English football and that he needs to rethink it for Charlton. There's nothing wrong with having access to the network but we need balanced investment and players and managers from elsewhere as well. Quite simply, players from his other clubs are not good enough. Not a single one has proved otherwise so far.

    Exactly, RR.

    This is surely where our situation differs from that of RD's other clubs on the European mainland.

    What "works" there will not work here for many reasons I'm sure the likes of AB & PA would be able to clarify.

    And the watering down of the original FFP ruling is clearly relevant only in England.

    A further thought following yesterday's announcement of the incredible sum of money to be paid for television rights in the Prem ...Shouldn't this alone make our owner sit up and smell the coffee ( and waffles) & be a pertinent reminder of just HOW valuable it is to have a team in the "biggest" league in European football ?

    Maybe the VIPs should take the opportunity to ask KM if/how these 2 issues are affecting RD's plans for CAFC ?



  • 5,000 paper aeroplanes on the pitch, would get some publicity !
  • Hex said:

    Stig said:

    As a recap to the main things that have happened in the past 13 months, I've posted a Duchatelet timeline here: https://staddickstics.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/unlucky-for-some/

    I'm working on some summaries of players coming and goings in that time and will post that soon.

    @Stig Any chance your player summary could include SL - ie network and non-network movements ?
    We could have a go, but I haven't really followed the extra-Charlton stuff so I'd need someone to come up with the facts for me. That said there was some Charlton related stuff that I missed off because it was all too busy.
  • Surely as a business man, the aim would be the el dorado of the prem where he can make some money and Retired and we would be more attractive for the next owner. If that is'nt the plan ?
    Why not.
  • vff said:

    5000 paper aeroplanes, a la Leicester at home.

    Creative different funny ideas will help to defeat Duchatelet. Strong actions are good as well but lets face it Charlton supporters are not going to riot like Liege.

    I posted the below on the season ticket strike site but fits in with the above discussion.

    Charlton supporters need to do some funny big things / actions that will get the football world's attention. Flying a balloon across the Valley and releasing lots of balloons / streamers onto the pitch with a stuff the network message. Thousands of stuff the network air planes etc. Something that will look good on the net and media sites. If Charlton supporters can consistently embarrass and highlight to the football world and inept and rubbish his footballing decisions are, then he will be pushed into selling. Duchatelet needs to attract players to his network and if it is clear how badly his messing clubs then he won't like it. It would need to be as sustained effort though. Funny and entertaining stuff as well.
    Good idea VFF.
    My thoughts on this were scarves with 'Stuff The Network', a red shirt with a white heart (signifying it's missing).

    It shouldn't be difficult to get these things knocked up and they can run in the background as a reminder.

  • After a lengthy chat with a man who would know from personal dealings with RD he assures me that relegation would be a devastating blow to RD and his plan, he also has now convinced me that his plan is to invest in the youth infrastructure and then sell the players for a profit, similar to a factory production line where the commodity and product is footballers

    For this reason I withdraw my support from his project

    I stand by my stance on Sheffield utd abysmal performance

    I thank him from saving us from financial abyss

    I thank him for the ground improvements
    And his investment in the training ground his support of the museum and his cheap season tickets

    Now is the time to react,

    The person I spoke to will remain nameless he is a very wealthy man who has no football background but has numerous dealings with RD and is also Belgian and that I met in Brussels three weeks ago

    Crewe Alexander of the South. Southampton shows that if you want that project to work, it works best in the premiership. That involves a proper investment and plan to get there. Something that Duchatelet clearly does not want to do.

    The other thing is that if relegation is such a devastating blow why he is failed to support strengthening up front, forward playing midfielder or wide midfield ? If it is a devastating blow, would he consider selling up to another owner ?
  • vff said:

    5000 paper aeroplanes, a la Leicester at home.

    Creative different funny ideas will help to defeat Duchatelet. Strong actions are good as well but lets face it Charlton supporters are not going to riot like Liege.

    I posted the below on the season ticket strike site but fits in with the above discussion.

    Charlton supporters need to do some funny big things / actions that will get the football world's attention. Flying a balloon across the Valley and releasing lots of balloons / streamers onto the pitch with a stuff the network message. Thousands of stuff the network air planes etc. Something that will look good on the net and media sites. If Charlton supporters can consistently embarrass and highlight to the football world and inept and rubbish his footballing decisions are, then he will be pushed into selling. Duchatelet needs to attract players to his network and if it is clear how badly his messing clubs then he won't like it. It would need to be as sustained effort though. Funny and entertaining stuff as well.
    Good idea VFF.
    My thoughts on this were scarves with 'Stuff The Network', a red shirt with a white heart (signifying it's missing).

    It shouldn't be difficult to get these things knocked up and they can run in the background as a reminder.

    Its a good idea. Creative and eye catching ideas will help a lot. There has been some expression that Duchatelet is not susceptible to any pressure. I think that pressure applied in the right places can make a big difference and have an effect on him.

  • I think he is very much under the advice of a different group of people to that of what we know of with regards to recruitment and quality of player we get, as far as I gathered he feels the amount of players provided should see us safe,

    Who advises him is the question
  • we knew all along that was his project D, selling on youth, nothing new there.
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  • I think he is very much under the advice of a different group of people to that of what we know of with regards to recruitment and quality of player we get, as far as I gathered he feels the amount of players provided should see us safe,

    Who advises him is the question

    Agent Dudu. Why ignore someone like Phil Chapple who knows exactly what Charlton need.
  • I think he is very much under the advice of a different group of people to that of what we know of with regards to recruitment and quality of player we get, as far as I gathered he feels the amount of players provided should see us safe,

    Who advises him is the question

    Agent Dudu. Why ignore someone like Phil Chapple who knows exactly what Charlton need.
  • Glad you have finally seen the writing on the wall, NLA. Main adviser as far as we know is Dudu Dahan - or do you have alternative information?
  • You'd think RD would be intelligent enough not to trust the "advice" of a money-grabbing agent.
  • I always thought Steve that the player sales or a percentage of them would be used to invest in players back to us

    That seems though as that may not be the case
  • I don't know who weegie but I don't believe dudu offers that information in think he facilitates the moves after the players have been located and then positioned
  • As long as British players maintain a higher value due to the % required by the league and champions league, there is a gap in the market for a British production line

    This holds two passages of thought we will benefit should we produce good young players in the short term and it seems he is ballsy enough to hold out for top prices

    Now greedy family members and agents will see that as a good thing for youngsters to get the next move and to go to the next level and will push them to us,

    However any sensible and long term view parent or agent will not see us as a good choice of club regardless of the facilities we build to provide that initial platform

    As an emotional Tie to our club it is a terrible matter of circumstance

    As a business idea it holds merit in terms of sense to make money
  • I think he is very much under the advice of a different group of people to that of what we know of with regards to recruitment and quality of player we get, as far as I gathered he feels the amount of players provided should see us safe,

    Who advises him is the question

    Agent Dudu. Why ignore someone like Phil Chapple who knows exactly what Charlton need.
    There's likely a difference in monetary terms. Chapple knows the cost of these things, Dudu thinks he knows better.
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  • I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.

    However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.

    That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.
  • Produce 1 Gareth bale and the investment needed to do that is smaller than needed for getting us in the prem
  • That all makes sense to a certain degree, but the spanner in the works for me is that this club is a severe loss leader one. When he took it over it was losing 5-6 mill a year. Even if he trims that down a bit, that soon adds up over 2-3 years. That would be a hell of a lot of sales just to get close to making a profit on top of what he paid to buy.

    I just can't fully see it as surely him and his business advisors would have highlighted this before he invested?

    That's a reasonable judgement. However it increasingly looks that generally RD has less outside advice than we all assumed.
  • edited February 2015
    If training up youth players and selling them for profit was that easy then every club would be doing it. RD needs to look at the likes of Chelsea who have about 60+ players in there academy of which most of them will be either set out on loan for no profit or let go free of charge
  • edited February 2015

    I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.

    However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.

    That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.

    I don't like being right, but @PragueAddick has summed up my feelings. That is why I believe he has spruced up the Valley (and I'm not too worried about it's future); not for the fans but to provide a pretty shop window for his product. I wonder what it will look like empty?
    I think it could be another factor in player morale too - how to you think a footballers ego handles being told he's a commodity? I know it wouldn't sit well with me.
    The trouble with trying to convince RD to go for the (every increasing) EPL pot of gold as I see it is twofold
    1. He genuinely might not be in it for the money, just to prove a point.
    2. The amount required to get there (and even to stay in the lower reaches of the Champ) will only get even greater as clubs start to come down with even greater parachute payments and he may be tightfisted.

    Even if we can convince him that the advice he has received over the viability (and cost) of the player factory approach is bogus, he may still be too bloody-minded to change (see previous at SL)
  • Interesting insight from @NL_Addick.

    We already knew that part of RD's strategy is to invest in youth, that we will continue to be a selling club (not many that aren't) but that we will at least use his financial clout to hold out for good money for them. In fact, that is just about the ONLY part of his strategy which has been clearly expressed.

    What is new/different is that most of us, I guess, thought that this strategy would be pursued alongside building a team that can compete for promotion to the PL and hopefully get there. At which time, there would be more chance of young stars being retained.

    If that is now in doubt, it begs the question of what would be the right "platform" for RD to get the potental big money saleable assets in the shop window? He has already made a packet out of selling his star players from Standard Liege, and they are in the Belgian top tier - but they have been there for ever and the lower tiers are arguably not up to the standard of the English Championship, at least.

    The Championship might have a lot to commend it as the breeding/development ground for future saleable assets. Youngsters coming through at Prem clubs rarely (with notable exceptions) get the chance to play regularly in the first team and have the chance to shine and attract admirers. There is so much money about, and so much pressure, that clubs will often spend they way out of trouble or up the table rather than give youngsters their head. On the other hand Division 1 or 2 clubs will rarely have the youth recruitment or development facilities to unearth future big money saleable assets - again there are notable exceptions. Nor will they, in the main, be a great platform for youngsters to shine as the football is usually more agricultural and there is much less media exposure.

    So, step forward the Championship. Clubs there are often that bit wealthier and can afford decent academy structures and facilities. They also have greater media exposure and young players coming through in that league will be more likely targets of the big boys in the Prem.

    If that reasoning is correct, it suggests that Roland would be content enough with the Championship but that relegation would be a serious blow to his strategy. On the other hand, I would have thought there was a good case to be made for ensuring the team is at least equipped to compete more effectively than we are, to be resourced for a top half team, challenging in or around the play off positions. Think of a Will Hughes at Derby rather than a Jordan Cousins at Charlton. A stronger and more successful team, still in the Championship, would be a better showcase for young stars than one languishing near the bottom and playing poor quality football. It would also get more media coverage.

    A lot of ifs and buts in all this, but it could be a possible avenue of persuasion for Roland, if we ever get access, to argue for a greater level of investment.
  • I think it's important to grasp the different business strategy which NLA is implying. As several of you have said, there is nothing new in a policy of raising young players and selling them at a a profit. It can be reasonable, even if it's hard for fans to swallow, and might be the only way in the Championship with a huge imbalance of TV money.

    However, most people have assumed up to now that RD's main business goal is to get us into the FAPL, because that brings a huge cash windfall. I think NLA's contact suggests that this isn't what RD had in mind, rather it is to make profit from the player trading in itself. @CatAddick suggested something similar a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get discussed much. CatAddick said that RD maybe sees this as a B2B, not a B2C business. His customers are the other clubs, from whom he will make money in player trading. That implies that we, the paying customers, are pretty much irrelevant in his business plan.

    That sounds like extremely bad news for us. However there is also at least the possibility, which we have been discussing behind the scenes within the Trust, that RD simply hasn't spotted the real goldmine of getting us into the FAPL. That may be hard to believe from our perspective because we on the island are obsessed with it, but RD's involvement in football didn't begin with us, we are just one of six clubs (arguably seven with Fortuna Sittard). So it might be possible to argue with him a business case which persuades him to look at CAFC differently. We may be dreaming if we think we can have such a dialogue with him, but football is all about dreams, and not just on the pitch.

    CatAddick's last message is the crux for me, not least because this isn't a business case that will earn him as much money as finishing bottom of the Premiership next season (rumoured to now be £99m). Is he just here to prove his theory or to make money. He doesn't have to do the latter, although he will lose more and more.

    It is impossible that he doesn't realise the financial opportunity of the Premier League. Richard Murray and Katrien Meire are fully aware and would have communicated it to a Roland Duchatelet sitting in the dark. I can, however, see the argument that he has a theory that success is possible in a break-even football club, and youth player sales are key to financing the rest of it.

    But that requires the whole operation to be lean, efficient and attracting other revenues that keep the operating deficit as low as possible. There has been some streamlining activity, presumably the outsourcing creates reliable revenue streams, and there are objectives for increasing attendances, which would support this and for which a spruced up Valley would be evidence.

    The gap remains that we have no idea what he's trying to achieve or why. All the speculation in the world won't fill that void - and more to the point, we can't possibly know how we could contribute to its improvement until that becomes clear.
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Roland Out Forever!