maybe RD wasn't keeping her in the loop. Perhaps she had read CL and the rumours re Luzon and thought she had to say something. Then we lost, RD had had enough, and BP was sacked. Makes her look like a right plum but a victim of circumstance.
Do you think really think that is a tenable position for a chief executive to be in?
Welcome back haven't seen you post for a while, in your opinion how much influence was the players in removing bob, from what I heard the camp wasn't happy, and that the communication was not always audible from BP to many of the boys, also there was a bust up that got quite out of hand and resulted in an unhappy group
Getting rid of BP isn't my gripe the lack of experience in the British game bothers me with Luzon more but maybe he can prove many wrong
There is truth in what reams has posted, on the 14th, it's been being spoken about since before then on whispers and pm's
Involving senior players and a very big bust up, I am glad 2chalets has a close eye on us maybe it will keep some of you from over analysing the whole network thing and allow the man a couple of years doing it his way
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
maybe RD wasn't keeping her in the loop. Perhaps she had read CL and the rumours re Luzon and thought she had to say something. Then we lost, RD had had enough, and BP was sacked. Makes her look like a right plum but a victim of circumstance.
Do you think really think that is a tenable position for a chief executive to be in?
no, I don't but KM has been hung out to dry over this and maybe it isn't her fault. Should she resign? That depends on how she feels she has been treated. Do we want her to resign? RD would only appoint another 'yes' person so I can't see how that would help. In any case is she a Chief Exec in the way that say PV was Chief Exec?
Welcome back haven't seen you post for a while, in your opinion how much influence was the players in removing bob, from what I heard the camp wasn't happy, and that the communication was not always audible from BP to many of the boys, also there was a bust up that got quite out of hand and resulted in an unhappy group
Getting rid of BP isn't my gripe the lack of experience in the British game bothers me with Luzon more but maybe he can prove many wrong
There is truth in what reams has posted, on the 14th, it's been being spoken about since before then on whispers and pm's
Involving senior players and a very big bust up, I am glad 2chalets has a close eye on us maybe it will keep some of you from over analysing the whole network thing and allow the man a couple of years doing it his way
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
and that same person telling a great many of us that Parky was going to be sacked only for him to stay on for the next season. We've been lied to for years and I'm not sure why RD and co are copping a lot more flak than previous regimes.
maybe RD wasn't keeping her in the loop. Perhaps she had read CL and the rumours re Luzon and thought she had to say something. Then we lost, RD had had enough, and BP was sacked. Makes her look like a right plum but a victim of circumstance.
Do you think really think that is a tenable position for a chief executive to be in?
Welcome back haven't seen you post for a while, in your opinion how much influence was the players in removing bob, from what I heard the camp wasn't happy, and that the communication was not always audible from BP to many of the boys, also there was a bust up that got quite out of hand and resulted in an unhappy group
Getting rid of BP isn't my gripe the lack of experience in the British game bothers me with Luzon more but maybe he can prove many wrong
There is truth in what reams has posted, on the 14th, it's been being spoken about since before then on whispers and pm's
Involving senior players and a very big bust up, I am glad 2chalets has a close eye on us maybe it will keep some of you from over analysing the whole network thing and allow the man a couple of years doing it his way
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
and that same person telling a great many of us that Parky was going to be sacked only for him to stay on for the next season. We've been lied to for years and I'm not sure why RD and co are copping a lot more flak than previous regimes.
Actually the club got a lot of ridicule over the Parkinson appointment. Nonsense to say there wasn't the same focus. But there was still some trust in the people running the club then, albeit Parkinson wasn't an RM appointment as you imply.
What the article fails to mention is that Maccabi Petah Tikva, the only club he played at and the first team he managed, is owned by his family; that he allegedly got the Israeli U21 job because his uncle, who ran the Israeli FA equivalent, used his influence. Who knows how he got the SL job, but I do wonder about the influence of Dudu Dahan, a close family friend and his agent and a close ally of Roland's by all accounts. And we all know how he got the Charlton job. Now I will give him every chance, because I want the best for Charlton, and maybe he will turn out to be "our Sir Alex Ferguson"...who knows at this point?
Interesting. Didn't know his family owned Maccabi Petah Tikva. So corrupt.
Welcome back haven't seen you post for a while, in your opinion how much influence was the players in removing bob, from what I heard the camp wasn't happy, and that the communication was not always audible from BP to many of the boys, also there was a bust up that got quite out of hand and resulted in an unhappy group
Getting rid of BP isn't my gripe the lack of experience in the British game bothers me with Luzon more but maybe he can prove many wrong
There is truth in what reams has posted, on the 14th, it's been being spoken about since before then on whispers and pm's
Involving senior players and a very big bust up, I am glad 2chalets has a close eye on us maybe it will keep some of you from over analysing the whole network thing and allow the man a couple of years doing it his way
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
and that same person telling a great many of us that Parky was going to be sacked only for him to stay on for the next season. We've been lied to for years and I'm not sure why RD and co are copping a lot more flak than previous regimes.
Actually the club got a lot of ridicule over the Parkinson appointment. Nonsense to say there wasn't the same focus. But there was still some trust in the people running the club then, albeit Parkinson wasn't an RM appointment as you imply.
I don't know who appointed him but RM told us Parky was going to be sacked and then he wasn't. That is where we were lied to.
maybe RD wasn't keeping her in the loop. Perhaps she had read CL and the rumours re Luzon and thought she had to say something. Then we lost, RD had had enough, and BP was sacked. Makes her look like a right plum but a victim of circumstance.
Do you think really think that is a tenable position for a chief executive to be in?
Airman, any CEO of any private company is in exactly the same position as KM if they don't own any shares in that company. Their actual role will depend entirely on how closely the shareholders (owners) want to get involved in the day to day business of the company. Some owners have no interest in the business at all & they are happy to delegate all decisions to the CEO. Other owners, like Roland, want to have a close say in the key business issues & they will always make all the final, important decisions.
I personally have worked in many companies where this happens, and happens very successfully. The CEO is always the most senior person in the building & is in charge of the day to day business. However, key strategies & major business decisions will always be taken by the owner. This doesn't make the role of the CEO untenable, it just means that they report directly to the owner & are responsible for implementing his strategy. This is the way that private businesses work around the world. Football clubs are no different.
Red Pete, Large was suggesting that 1) RD didn't tell her anything and 2) KM's article was based on what she'd read on Charlton Life.
I accept what you are saying, but it is not the same thing by any means. A chief executive who had no idea what was going on and based her public actions on what she'd seen on a message board would be in a completely untenable position, I suggest!
Welcome back haven't seen you post for a while, in your opinion how much influence was the players in removing bob, from what I heard the camp wasn't happy, and that the communication was not always audible from BP to many of the boys, also there was a bust up that got quite out of hand and resulted in an unhappy group
Getting rid of BP isn't my gripe the lack of experience in the British game bothers me with Luzon more but maybe he can prove many wrong
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
Good point.
Or "Les Reed is the Charlton Manager and will NOT be replaced".
Welcome back haven't seen you post for a while, in your opinion how much influence was the players in removing bob, from what I heard the camp wasn't happy, and that the communication was not always audible from BP to many of the boys, also there was a bust up that got quite out of hand and resulted in an unhappy group
Getting rid of BP isn't my gripe the lack of experience in the British game bothers me with Luzon more but maybe he can prove many wrong
There is truth in what reams has posted, on the 14th, it's been being spoken about since before then on whispers and pm's
Involving senior players and a very big bust up, I am glad 2chalets has a close eye on us maybe it will keep some of you from over analysing the whole network thing and allow the man a couple of years doing it his way
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
and that same person telling a great many of us that Parky was going to be sacked only for him to stay on for the next season. We've been lied to for years and I'm not sure why RD and co are copping a lot more flak than previous regimes.
Actually the club got a lot of ridicule over the Parkinson appointment. Nonsense to say there wasn't the same focus. But there was still some trust in the people running the club then, albeit Parkinson wasn't an RM appointment as you imply.
I don't know who appointed him but RM told us Parky was going to be sacked and then he wasn't. That is where we were lied to.
Which plenty of people moaned about, you and me included, iirc?
She met him on a Monday and her heart stood still Da do Guy-Luz-on, da Guy Luz-on Somebody told her that he was better than Jewell Da do Guy-Luz-on, da Guy Luz-on
(with apologies to The Crystals for associating their timeless classic to the CAFC farce)
Didn't realise the Palace cheerleaders had released a song.
some really interesting comments on this one, i have used some of the thoughts here and elsewhere to wrap all of this up in one place ...thought you might like to have a look
there is a thread on here that is clearly trying to dissect KM and her position as if she is a puppet of RD , Loyalty to your manager and boss in the work place is no bad thing,
Although that news is quite positive, that still, for me, doesn't excuse his appointment of Luzon
My biggest concern with the appointment of Luzon is not the man, although that may change come the next few weeks but the complete pigs ear that they have made of it. Whilst I would have been disappointed that there was not a process for recruitment of a new manager with alternative candidates, I can understand that RD wanted his own man*. This being the case he should have been transparent and honest with us instead of this charade, which has further destroyed his credibility and completely destroyed KM's and at the same time humiliated her.
*It is not that unusual in industry for senior positions to be filled without a recruitment process.
Possibly RD is unsure if Luzon is the man despite KM "long term" comment as the contract is only 18 months. How do we currently compare with Leeds and Watford for sacking managers?
The contract is only 18 months, because it is his existing network contract.
Just asking, but do you know that, beyond reasonable doubt? I am not sure what he has been doing since he left Standard. Somebody wrote that he was in some way working with Ujpest - our recent visitor from there @ujpest_lad might know. But Ujpest is not owned by Staprix.
Maybe Luzon wasn't earning a lot by English comparison, but when he left Liege, Bob was doing OK, results wise. I'd be surprised if RD would keep his contract rolling on, not knowing if, when and where he could get Luzon to do work which justified it.
But as we keep learning, with RD and this network, nothing should surprise us.
The contract is only 18 months, because it is his existing network contract.
Just asking, but do you know that, beyond reasonable doubt? I am not sure what he has been doing since he left Standard. Somebody wrote that he was in some way working with Ujpest - our recent visitor from there @ujpest_lad might know. But Ujpest is not owned by Staprix.
Maybe Luzon wasn't earning a lot by English comparison, but when he left Liege, Bob was doing OK, results wise. I'd be surprised if RD would keep his contract rolling on, not knowing if, when and where he could get Luzon to do work which justified it.
But as we keep learning, with RD and this network, nothing should surprise us.
The contract is only 18 months, because it is his existing network contract.
Just asking, but do you know that, beyond reasonable doubt? I am not sure what he has been doing since he left Standard. Somebody wrote that he was in some way working with Ujpest - our recent visitor from there @ujpest_lad might know. But Ujpest is not owned by Staprix.
Maybe Luzon wasn't earning a lot by English comparison, but when he left Liege, Bob was doing OK, results wise. I'd be surprised if RD would keep his contract rolling on, not knowing if, when and where he could get Luzon to do work which justified it.
But as we keep learning, with RD and this network, nothing should surprise us.
In brief, it says he remains contracted to Roland, and has a new role as a football advisor at CZJ. The CZJ president says Luzon will only advise - he did not consider becoming coach, as there is a big difference between the Europa League, the top division in Belgium and the German fourth division.
The majority of discussion has been over Luzon and Meire.
Apologies if I have missed it (and with the amount of similar threads been opened in last few days it's a possibility), but I wonder how Matthew and Roberts feel about all of this.
They were asked to take over first team duties, and were presumably preparing to be in charge for at least the Watford game. Then within 24 hours, this opportunity is taken away from them.
Having met the pair of them at events, they are both friendly and inviting guys, so it's possible they are happy to help the club in whatever format has arisen. Yet for me, if this happened in my workplace (and yes, I'm aware it is completely different businesses), I would certainly feel rather despondent to be asked to carry out something and then have it taken away through no fault of my own within a day.
To me, it is more proof that it really is just all about money - perhaps not in a greedy/ money-grabbing way on Roland's part (not sure re Dahan), but in wanting to prove to the football world that business principles can be applied.
The lack of stringent FFP is a big spanner in the works, and puts even more pressure on the need to polish rough diamonds then sell them on at a big profit - whether they are homegrown youth or young players picked up on the relative cheap from elsewhere.
I'm not sure I buy the need to get to the Prem as part of the strategy - yes, it brings a lot of income, but also an awful lot of cost. I think Roland's idea for us is about bang in the middle between Crewe and Southampton (under current ownership). The sad thing is that he has the money to make it more Southampton, but that would require him employing genuine, experienced football advisers and managers...and there is no evidence of that.
I don't think that from an Accounting perspective it's possible to "loan from the network for free." A friend of mine owns multiple related businesses and he's always clear that when an employee does work for the "sister" company (one's service, one's retail), that the true cost (minus a small discount perhaps) is accounted for. In other words, there's no "Oh, hook me up over here please bro!" between the companies. Some sort of fair value is attached to everything.
So it would certainly be interesting to see how values of players are accounted for across Duchatalet's network and how, for instance, profits are distributed between the groups, if they are at all. What happens if we raise the next Gareth Bale? Where does the money go? I know this has been raised before and it's a question we may not be very far along in answering.
I would think that the better way to do this, if the goal is to save money, is to create Staprix departments for all related services (legal, catering, maintenance, accounting, HR, marketing etc.) and to have the various clubs outsource their own operations to the Staprix ones. They would then pay values less than what each club would pay to operate those departments themselves. Then, for instance, have Staprix negotiate deals, like kit sponsorships etc. on behalf of the group. But then again, what happens to Staprix profits, in terms of distribution (if at all) back to the Clubs? It's tricky... with scouting, who decides where a young talent is most needed and will realise the most value... would we be happy if at 16 a CAFC youngster went off to Ujpest and then three years later is sold to Chelsea for 40million? Who gets the cash?
I'm going to start with transfermrkt.com and see if I can work it all out. I'll be right back...
Comments
There is truth in what reams has posted, on the 14th, it's been being spoken about since before then on whispers and pm's
Involving senior players and a very big bust up, I am glad 2chalets has a close eye on us maybe it will keep some of you from over analysing the whole network thing and allow the man a couple of years doing it his way
And I don't remember so much focus being put on someone telling us that parky would be judged on results during our worst run ever
I personally have worked in many companies where this happens, and happens very successfully. The CEO is always the most senior person in the building & is in charge of the day to day business. However, key strategies & major business decisions will always be taken by the owner. This doesn't make the role of the CEO untenable, it just means that they report directly to the owner & are responsible for implementing his strategy. This is the way that private businesses work around the world. Football clubs are no different.
I accept what you are saying, but it is not the same thing by any means. A chief executive who had no idea what was going on and based her public actions on what she'd seen on a message board would be in a completely untenable position, I suggest!
Or "Les Reed is the Charlton Manager and will NOT be replaced".
Or "We WILL let you know why Dowie was sacked"
both not verbatim (for the pedants)
https://chicagoaddick.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/penny-for-a-guy/
http://www.cafcchoicetv.co.uk/peeters-brawls-bust-ups-bullying/
Some of the old guard could've learnt from that
There maybe a flaw in this theory though : - )
Maybe Luzon wasn't earning a lot by English comparison, but when he left Liege, Bob was doing OK, results wise. I'd be surprised if RD would keep his contract rolling on, not knowing if, when and where he could get Luzon to do work which justified it.
But as we keep learning, with RD and this network, nothing should surprise us.
fcupdate.nl/voetbalnieuws/265994/luzon-wordt-adviseur-bij-duitse-zusterclub-standard/
In brief, it says he remains contracted to Roland, and has a new role as a football advisor at CZJ. The CZJ president says Luzon will only advise - he did not consider becoming coach, as there is a big difference between the Europa League, the top division in Belgium and the German fourth division.
This way he doesn't have to keep paying extra wages for the "sacked" coach and the new one.
Same really as the players. Why pay for loan wages, when you can loan from the network for free.
The money saving ideas are very good in theory. But in practice it means you are relying on existing network staff, to fill all the vacancies.
Reduces agents fees as well by using Dahan.
Sell off established players for a profit, who were on high wages and replace them with academy kids on low wages.
All these ideas save money, but it can't work unless you're recruiting what is needed, not what is left on the shelf.
We shall see. But it has much less chance of working now that FFP has been sidelined.
Apologies if I have missed it (and with the amount of similar threads been opened in last few days it's a possibility), but I wonder how Matthew and Roberts feel about all of this.
They were asked to take over first team duties, and were presumably preparing to be in charge for at least the Watford game. Then within 24 hours, this opportunity is taken away from them.
Having met the pair of them at events, they are both friendly and inviting guys, so it's possible they are happy to help the club in whatever format has arisen. Yet for me, if this happened in my workplace (and yes, I'm aware it is completely different businesses), I would certainly feel rather despondent to be asked to carry out something and then have it taken away through no fault of my own within a day.
The lack of stringent FFP is a big spanner in the works, and puts even more pressure on the need to polish rough diamonds then sell them on at a big profit - whether they are homegrown youth or young players picked up on the relative cheap from elsewhere.
I'm not sure I buy the need to get to the Prem as part of the strategy - yes, it brings a lot of income, but also an awful lot of cost. I think Roland's idea for us is about bang in the middle between Crewe and Southampton (under current ownership). The sad thing is that he has the money to make it more Southampton, but that would require him employing genuine, experienced football advisers and managers...and there is no evidence of that.
So it would certainly be interesting to see how values of players are accounted for across Duchatalet's network and how, for instance, profits are distributed between the groups, if they are at all. What happens if we raise the next Gareth Bale? Where does the money go? I know this has been raised before and it's a question we may not be very far along in answering.
I would think that the better way to do this, if the goal is to save money, is to create Staprix departments for all related services (legal, catering, maintenance, accounting, HR, marketing etc.) and to have the various clubs outsource their own operations to the Staprix ones. They would then pay values less than what each club would pay to operate those departments themselves. Then, for instance, have Staprix negotiate deals, like kit sponsorships etc. on behalf of the group. But then again, what happens to Staprix profits, in terms of distribution (if at all) back to the Clubs? It's tricky... with scouting, who decides where a young talent is most needed and will realise the most value... would we be happy if at 16 a CAFC youngster went off to Ujpest and then three years later is sold to Chelsea for 40million? Who gets the cash?
I'm going to start with transfermrkt.com and see if I can work it all out. I'll be right back...