I think it's natural when a club (Company) is taken over that the new owners want to do it there own way and want their own people in.
I don't think Alex Dyer is saying anything that we haven't already been gathering for ourselves over the past few months.
Alex Dyer is obviously pissed off because he has been sacked. I believe Richard Cawley knows exactly what he is doing by posting this article and he certainly isn't helping the cause of Charlton Athletic. I'm sure both he and Alex Dyer know of CL and are more than aware of the views that have been expressed on this site. Maybe that is what they are feeding into? Could this be just gossip mongering for the sake of getting a story?
It is also rather far fetched to believe that all the scouting will be done from behind the screen of a computer. Sorry, I don't buy it.
From my perspective there is really only one thing that I don't understand regarding what has gone on up to now and that is why Riga wasn't appointed as the full time manager. However, I'm assuming there are good reasons for this and I certainly don't believe it was because he wouldn't do what he was told by RD. That just wouldn't make sense. I think RD is too good a business man to cut his nose to spite his face over a petty issue that someone wouldn't be a lap dog. I just can't see that, sorry.
So, I think this article has been timed to come out on the day that Peeters has been confirmed as manager and for me it is trash newspaper stuff, designed to get a reaction, and it certainly has on here.
I'm not buying it and Bob Peeters and RD have my 100% support until I can see something tangible for myself that things are not right. I haven't seen that so far.
One reason the article will have appeared today is the bank holiday. The SLP - or most of it - will probably have been put to bed on Friday and this is a good story that wouldn't develop over the weekend. Whether it's good for Charlton Athletic is not in my view a proper consideration for either the paper or the reporter to take into account. Indeed, it's the fact that they don't act on that basis that differentiates journalism from public relations. And in any case you can argue about whether something being good or bad for the owner is the same as being good or bad for the club or its supporters. Regardless, it's a good story and that's the measure. It's not on the website because they want to sell papers and they have a rather old-fashioned view of how to use the web, which isn't to say they aren't right.
Totally unnecessary. This sort of derogatory comment of a valuable member of the forum who just happens to have a different and might I say, more insightful view of the club than you do, is just poor form.
To suggest the article went to press so that it was timed with the next days announcement of the crap manager is ludicrous. To suggest that Alex Dyer was sacked is just incorrect.
Totally unnecessary. This sort of derogatory comment of a valuable member of the forum who just happens to have a different and might I say, more insightful view of the club than you do, is just poor form.
Rubbish. You take a high profile on a forum, you accept this kind of thing happens. There was a poster who recently imagined various such posters as well known actors. I can't remember exactly whom he labelled me as but it wasn't complimentary. The message was 'drama queen'. I didn't exactly think to jump off Charles Bridge, but I did stop to reflect that if I didn't like it, it was probably my fault, and I could do something about it.
If it descends into vicious personal abuse, such as on ITTV (there's been a thread with my name as title, and it wasn't asking for travel tips to Prague), that's a different matter, but this is well inside the limit, IMHO. It's just a light hearted way of suggesting to @seriously_red that his style of optimism can seem a bit relentless, and perhaps detracts from some of the good points he makes from time to time.
@seriously_red I'm not talking about early March. In early March I was of the opinion that there were big cracks in "our Charlton" that needed to be addressed. We probably differ wholly on how they were addressed.
I'm more entertained(?) by how you consistently, perhaps fanatically, rationalise every decision from every Charlton regime of the past couple of years as some positive step in a great master plan. It must be tiring.
Guilty! But I prefer to be a Charlton fanatic than a Charlton cynic. And I prefer to rationalise patterns and decisions rather than play the victim or position a well paid player or coach as a victim. There are plenty of fans and interested parties spinning against the club so I don't feel the need to provide balance. In turn may I ask how you feel running a site viewed by perhaps 35% of the fanbase which carries so much anti-Charlton propaganda?
I've had some really stupid arguments on here with certain posters but what is 100% certain is that the foundations for next seasons squad were established last summer and during the season. If Duchatelet and Peeters (keep up!) can add the right players then we will finish above 18th but we are in no position to challenge for the top ten just yet. We no longer have any "league 1 players" for each and every current player has been signed or renewed as a championship player.
Last season we had c.40 players - five on loan, 18 now signed on long term deals, three sold and ten just released who 99% agree should go.That leaves just four (10%) not signed up who the fans would like to keep and two have just signed elsewhere. So if the strategy delivers the squad into May with just 10% uncertainty I can easily maintain that it is right to praise it. I think so especially considering Hamer, Morrison and Dervite are not world beaters although some fans have suddenly reinvented them as £1M players!
The players who have been retained are the youngest and form the foundations of the team representing our club that we will all support in the next years to come.
Now how many threads and posts has your site carry castigating the owner(s) about the squad, about being Belgian(!), running networks, and not spending another 2-3m to ease the burden of the fans...and the manager so we can finish say 14th?
How many posters have been criticised for being too positive and optimistic when in the final analysis we stayed up with a run of 24 points from 16 games? And this in turn proved that the squad put together last summer was fit for purpose albeit matches can be decided on pure chance and the narrowest of margins.
Throughout my life I have supported the club and the badge. Sure I've enjoyed watching certain teams and players but the badge is so much more important than any one player or manager.
In your post above, you make two highly impertinent assumptions
1. That the administrators of this site should firstly decide that certain views are "anti-Charlton propaganda", and that, having decided this, they should censor them. 2. That those whose views you disagree with are less in support of 'the badge' as you put it, than you are.
I would suggest that these impertinent assumptions detract from your attempts to understand and convey your own view of what RD's strategy is, and prevent others from responding rationally, because you have needlessly wound them up.
I think RD is too good a business man to cut his nose to spite his face over a petty issue that someone wouldn't be a lap dog. I just can't see that, sorry.
I've lost count of the number of times that I've seen this argument. I think now is the time to watch closely and question, not to protest or overreact, but it definitely isn't the time to assume that everything that RD does is rational because he's a good businessman.
On the assumption that the money that he has amassed proves that he is a good businessman, then we still can't assume that he acts like some kind of purely rational automaton.
Firstly, I've worked with several 'good businessmen' that make many irrational decisions based on ego or preconceptions or even just poor judgement. They often get more wrong than right but whether by luck or judgement have called the big ones correctly.
Secondly, RD has diversified away from business and into politics and football. It probably means that he's as much an idealist, a risk taker and an egotist as he is a businessman.
I'm not saying it makes him wrong but the 'he's a good businessman' line certainly doesn't prove that he's right either. For God's sake, let's not assume that he's always right, this is a man that thinks that Ulien Thuram should be a first choice goalkeeper in a Championship side - for me, in regards to his involvement with Charlton, that says more than his millions.
Or maybe if one plays devils advocate to the extreme views on one end too much one will be branded similarly as a loon but on the other end of the spectrum perhaps?
Personally I sympathise with the bewilderment and concern felt by many altho it does seem like we've been here at least several times before. I suspect many myself included want Charlton to be uncomplicated but it isnt going to be under Roland and his network I'm afraid, and we don't really have a choice in that.
The bottom line will be what happens on the pitch. So far thats been 50/50 I'd say. What would make it all a bit easier for all concerned was if meaningful engagement and dialogue resumed, I think thats also 50/50 but we'll see.
Come on chaps, we're deviating well off course now.
CL has been running now for 8 years. I would hazard a guess that for at least 80% of that CL has been accused of being too supportive of the Club (the club's unofficial mouthpiece, i was accused multiple times of being a club employee etc etc).
The other 20% CL has been accused of being unsupportive of the Club / carrying an anti-Club agenda. Amusingly, there have been times we've been accused of both at the same time.
The truth is that neither are particularly true. it is just a platform for fans to have THEIR say. Unless i write an editorial style article (which is increasingly rare these days), then what is carried on the forum is what is provided by the members.
Every single year we have organised or promoted schemes that have put money directly into the Club, the Academy and the Community Trust. One of the last Articles we pinned and promoted was @Valley McMoist Embrace the Change which was supportive of RD.
If people only see an "anti agenda" then i take that as seriously as those that always accused CL of being the Club's unofficial mouthpiece. Because those people are generally only seeing what they want to see, and when something like 1-2,000 comments are generated a day, it is very easy to find something to back every stance if you so wish.
The bottom line will be what happens on the pitch. So far thats been 50/50 I'd say. What would make it all a bit easier for all concerned was if meaningful engagement and dialogue resumed, I think thats also 50/50 but we'll see.
I tend to agree with this. Also when your brain goes pop trying to understand everything, a great refuge is the age old measure of goals, wins, points and league positions. These things are easier to understand. I don't think that Bob Peeters is yet in a position to either get undying loyalty, or much understanding and sympathy if he has some bad luck. Bob might quite quickly earn loyalty, understanding and sympathy, but at the moment the bed is being made by Mr Duchatelet and Bob has chosen to lay on it. We will judge it all on results.
@seriously_red I'm not talking about early March. In early March I was of the opinion that there were big cracks in "our Charlton" that needed to be addressed. We probably differ wholly on how they were addressed.
I'm more entertained(?) by how you consistently, perhaps fanatically, rationalise every decision from every Charlton regime of the past couple of years as some positive step in a great master plan. It must be tiring.
Guilty! But I prefer to be a Charlton fanatic than a Charlton cynic. And I prefer to rationalise patterns and decisions rather than play the victim or position a well paid player or coach as a victim. There are plenty of fans and interested parties spinning against the club so I don't feel the need to provide balance. In turn may I ask how you feel running a site viewed by perhaps 35% of the fanbase which carries so much anti-Charlton propaganda?
I've had some really stupid arguments on here with certain posters but what is 100% certain is that the foundations for next seasons squad were established last summer and during the season. If Duchatelet and Peeters (keep up!) can add the right players then we will finish above 18th but we are in no position to challenge for the top ten just yet. We no longer have any "league 1 players" for each and every current player has been signed or renewed as a championship player.
Last season we had c.40 players - five on loan, 18 now signed on long term deals, three sold and ten just released who 99% agree should go.That leaves just four (10%) not signed up who the fans would like to keep and two have just signed elsewhere. So if the strategy delivers the squad into May with just 10% uncertainty I can easily maintain that it is right to praise it. I think so especially considering Hamer, Morrison and Dervite are not world beaters although some fans have suddenly reinvented them as £1M players!
The players who have been retained are the youngest and form the foundations of the team representing our club that we will all support in the next years to come.
Now how many threads and posts has your site carry castigating the owner(s) about the squad, about being Belgian(!), running networks, and not spending another 2-3m to ease the burden of the fans...and the manager so we can finish say 14th?
How many posters have been criticised for being too positive and optimistic when in the final analysis we stayed up with a run of 24 points from 16 games? And this in turn proved that the squad put together last summer was fit for purpose albeit matches can be decided on pure chance and the narrowest of margins.
Throughout my life I have supported the club and the badge. Sure I've enjoyed watching certain teams and players but the badge is so much more important than any one player or manager.
"Throughout my life I have supported the club and the badge. Sure I've enjoyed watching certain teams and players but the badge is so much more important than any one player or manager"
And THIS is why football fans are financially raped, pissed on, and treated like muck by football clubs and the FA decade after decade. And why prices will never lower, and ridiculous wages will keep on rising.
I find Dyer's comments rather refreshing. Unless he gets a position working with Powell, he may have cut his nose off to spite his face. Sadly we don't see enough of this.
I find Dyer's comments rather refreshing. Unless he gets a position working with Powell, he may have cut his nose off to spite his face. Sadly we don't see enough of this.
Refreshing is about right, just a shame when it's about the club you know and love.. lol
Totally unnecessary. This sort of derogatory comment of a valuable member of the forum who just happens to have a different and might I say, more insightful view of the club than you do, is just poor form.
Totally unnecessary. This sort of derogatory comment of a valuable member of the forum who just happens to have a different and might I say, more insightful view of the club than you do, is just poor form.
from a moderator too, tut tut.
And because it's a moderator it can't be flagged!!
I think it's natural when a club (Company) is taken over that the new owners want to do it there own way and want their own people in.
I don't think Alex Dyer is saying anything that we haven't already been gathering for ourselves over the past few months.
Alex Dyer is obviously pissed off because he has been sacked. I believe Richard Cawley knows exactly what he is doing by posting this article and he certainly isn't helping the cause of Charlton Athletic. I'm sure both he and Alex Dyer know of CL and are more than aware of the views that have been expressed on this site. Maybe that is what they are feeding into? Could this be just gossip mongering for the sake of getting a story?
It is also rather far fetched to believe that all the scouting will be done from behind the screen of a computer. Sorry, I don't buy it.
From my perspective there is really only one thing that I don't understand regarding what has gone on up to now and that is why Riga wasn't appointed as the full time manager. However, I'm assuming there are good reasons for this and I certainly don't believe it was because he wouldn't do what he was told by RD. That just wouldn't make sense. I think RD is too good a business man to cut his nose to spite his face over a petty issue that someone wouldn't be a lap dog. I just can't see that, sorry.
So, I think this article has been timed to come out on the day that Peeters has been confirmed as manager and for me it is trash newspaper stuff, designed to get a reaction, and it certainly has on here.
I'm not buying it and Bob Peeters and RD have my 100% support until I can see something tangible for myself that things are not right. I haven't seen that so far.
One reason the article will have appeared today is the bank holiday. The SLP - or most of it - will probably have been put to bed on Friday and this is a good story that wouldn't develop over the weekend. Whether it's good for Charlton Athletic is not in my view a proper consideration for either the paper or the reporter to take into account. Indeed, it's the fact that they don't act on that basis that differentiates journalism from public relations. And in any case you can argue about whether something being good or bad for the owner is the same as being good or bad for the club or its supporters. Regardless, it's a good story and that's the measure. It's not on the website because they want to sell papers and they have a rather old-fashioned view of how to use the web, which isn't to say they aren't right.
Airman. For what it's worth, I agree with you regarding the points you make that differentiates journalism from public relations. And thank God for that. Freedom of speech and all that. That doesn't mean to say I liked the piece but, as you say, it is a good story.
Totally unnecessary. This sort of derogatory comment of a valuable member of the forum who just happens to have a different and might I say, more insightful view of the club than you do, is just poor form.
Rubbish. You take a high profile on a forum, you accept this kind of thing happens. There was a poster who recently imagined various such posters as well known actors. I can't remember exactly whom he labelled me as but it wasn't complimentary. The message was 'drama queen'. I didn't exactly think to jump off Charles Bridge, but I did stop to reflect that if I didn't like it, it was probably my fault, and I could do something about it.
If it descends into vicious personal abuse, such as on ITTV (there's been a thread with my name as title, and it wasn't asking for travel tips to Prague), that's a different matter, but this is well inside the limit, IMHO. It's just a light hearted way of suggesting to @seriously_red that his style of optimism can seem a bit relentless, and perhaps detracts from some of the good points he makes from time to time.
You're welcome to your own opinion, but it's hardly "Rubbish" when a moderator who condemns this kind of behavior elsewhere, and which often goes from banter to outright insulting behaviour, then leads by example.
Past performance is not a guide to future results. The value of your Network of clubs football team and any income from it is not guaranteed and may go down as well as up.
People on here over think the situations and look for desperate conspiracy theories. Manager gets the sack........sacked coach slags off Club......new owner wants to do things his way..........fans moan about owner (remember Gliksten?)........valaued players sold off...........not exactly new
People on here over think the situations and look for desperate conspiracy theories. Manager gets the sack........sacked coach slags off Club......new owner wants to do things his way..........fans moan about owner (remember Gliksten?)........valaued players sold off...........not exactly new
None of that is new, except for the owner wanting to pick the team and demanding why rubbish players aren't in the team and then sacking the manager as a result. That is new.
Or from RDs point of view his advisors told him those players would improve the Charlton team. Why would RD trust Powell over his own advisors? It's not as if we were having a good season. Thuram and Nego came in and were dropped very quickly. Reza and AA were in and out of the team. PP came on once from the bench.
It was concerning to read what Dyer had to say but I can kind of see why RD expected those players to get more games. Of course that doesn't make it right, Powell was the manager rather than head coach and had previously chose signings himself.
From what a few people have said he's since admitted they underestimated the strength of the Championship. I don't think this will be much of an issue any more since we probably need 10+ signings, most of the squad will be players RD has agreed to sign or academy players.
I'm expecting a number of signings to come from English clubs. Network players won't develop or increase in value if we're falling down the leagues, it might have been the original plan but it's clear that a team made up of those players would struggle.
Comments
To suggest that Alex Dyer was sacked is just incorrect.
If it descends into vicious personal abuse, such as on ITTV (there's been a thread with my name as title, and it wasn't asking for travel tips to Prague), that's a different matter, but this is well inside the limit, IMHO. It's just a light hearted way of suggesting to @seriously_red that his style of optimism can seem a bit relentless, and perhaps detracts from some of the good points he makes from time to time.
There are plenty of fans and interested parties spinning against the club so I don't feel the need to provide balance. In turn may I ask how you feel running a site viewed by perhaps 35% of the fanbase which carries so much anti-Charlton propaganda?
I've had some really stupid arguments on here with certain posters but what is 100% certain is that the foundations for next seasons squad were established last summer and during the season. If Duchatelet and Peeters (keep up!) can add the right players then we will finish above 18th but we are in no position to challenge for the top ten just yet. We no longer have any "league 1 players" for each and every current player has been signed or renewed as a championship player.
Last season we had c.40 players - five on loan, 18 now signed on long term deals, three sold and ten just released who 99% agree should go.That leaves just four (10%) not signed up who the fans would like to keep and two have just signed elsewhere. So if the strategy delivers the squad into May with just 10% uncertainty I can easily maintain that it is right to praise it. I think so especially considering Hamer, Morrison and Dervite are not world beaters although some fans have suddenly reinvented them as £1M players!
The players who have been retained are the youngest and form the foundations of the team representing our club that we will all support in the next years to come.
Now how many threads and posts has your site carry castigating the owner(s) about the squad, about being Belgian(!), running networks, and not spending another 2-3m to ease the burden of the fans...and the manager so we can finish say 14th?
How many posters have been criticised for being too positive and optimistic when in the final analysis we stayed up with a run of 24 points from 16 games? And this in turn proved that the squad put together last summer was fit for purpose albeit matches can be decided on pure chance and the narrowest of margins.
Throughout my life I have supported the club and the badge. Sure I've enjoyed watching certain teams and players but the badge is so much more important than any one player or manager.
In your post above, you make two highly impertinent assumptions
1. That the administrators of this site should firstly decide that certain views are "anti-Charlton propaganda", and that, having decided this, they should censor them.
2. That those whose views you disagree with are less in support of 'the badge' as you put it, than you are.
I would suggest that these impertinent assumptions detract from your attempts to understand and convey your own view of what RD's strategy is, and prevent others from responding rationally, because you have needlessly wound them up.
On the assumption that the money that he has amassed proves that he is a good businessman, then we still can't assume that he acts like some kind of purely rational automaton.
Firstly, I've worked with several 'good businessmen' that make many irrational decisions based on ego or preconceptions or even just poor judgement. They often get more wrong than right but whether by luck or judgement have called the big ones correctly.
Secondly, RD has diversified away from business and into politics and football. It probably means that he's as much an idealist, a risk taker and an egotist as he is a businessman.
I'm not saying it makes him wrong but the 'he's a good businessman' line certainly doesn't prove that he's right either. For God's sake, let's not assume that he's always right, this is a man that thinks that Ulien Thuram should be a first choice goalkeeper in a Championship side - for me, in regards to his involvement with Charlton, that says more than his millions.
And that. Is my one thousandth post!
Personally I sympathise with the bewilderment and concern felt by many altho it does seem like we've been here at least several times before. I suspect many myself included want Charlton to be uncomplicated but it isnt going to be under Roland and his network I'm afraid, and we don't really have a choice in that.
The bottom line will be what happens on the pitch. So far thats been 50/50 I'd say. What would make it all a bit easier for all concerned was if meaningful engagement and dialogue resumed, I think thats also 50/50 but we'll see.
CL has been running now for 8 years. I would hazard a guess that for at least 80% of that CL has been accused of being too supportive of the Club (the club's unofficial mouthpiece, i was accused multiple times of being a club employee etc etc).
The other 20% CL has been accused of being unsupportive of the Club / carrying an anti-Club agenda. Amusingly, there have been times we've been accused of both at the same time.
The truth is that neither are particularly true. it is just a platform for fans to have THEIR say. Unless i write an editorial style article (which is increasingly rare these days), then what is carried on the forum is what is provided by the members.
Every single year we have organised or promoted schemes that have put money directly into the Club, the Academy and the Community Trust. One of the last Articles we pinned and promoted was @Valley McMoist Embrace the Change which was supportive of RD.
If people only see an "anti agenda" then i take that as seriously as those that always accused CL of being the Club's unofficial mouthpiece. Because those people are generally only seeing what they want to see, and when something like 1-2,000 comments are generated a day, it is very easy to find something to back every stance if you so wish.
I don't think that Bob Peeters is yet in a position to either get undying loyalty, or much understanding and sympathy if he has some bad luck. Bob might quite quickly earn loyalty, understanding and sympathy, but at the moment the bed is being made by Mr Duchatelet and Bob has chosen to lay on it. We will judge it all on results.
"Throughout my life I have supported the club and the badge. Sure I've enjoyed watching certain teams and players but the badge is so much more important than any one player or manager"
And THIS is why football fans are financially raped, pissed on, and treated like muck by football clubs and the FA decade after decade. And why prices will never lower, and ridiculous wages will keep on rising.
Network of clubsfootball team and any income from it is not guaranteed and may go down as well as up.It was concerning to read what Dyer had to say but I can kind of see why RD expected those players to get more games. Of course that doesn't make it right, Powell was the manager rather than head coach and had previously chose signings himself.
From what a few people have said he's since admitted they underestimated the strength of the Championship. I don't think this will be much of an issue any more since we probably need 10+ signings, most of the squad will be players RD has agreed to sign or academy players.
I'm expecting a number of signings to come from English clubs. Network players won't develop or increase in value if we're falling down the leagues, it might have been the original plan but it's clear that a team made up of those players would struggle.