I am generally positive about the new owners and am still of the opinion that Yann may have been sold by the previous ones. I am also positive about some of the new players.
Even though at the time I thought that this this looked like good business, I now think that this sale was a huge mistake. We may still stay up, however it will be by the skin of our teeth. With Yann still here we would be safe by now.
For those that seem to have complete certainty that selling Kermorgant was a mistake, I'd suggest reflecting on what has happened this season to Fuller, Haynes and Obika.
Its not so long ago that many people were suggesting that letting these players go (and not making more effort to sign Obika) was a huge mistake and clear evidence of a failure to back Chris Powell. I've no doubt Powell would have retained/signed all three had he been able.
For the record, Fuller has made 15 appearances for Blackpool and scored just 4 goals. Their only chance of survival is to beat us on the last day of the season and hope. Danny Haynes had 21 appearances at Notts County, scoring 3 goals. It looks like they are being relegated to Division 2, but despite that they've shipped Haynes out on loan to Hibs where he's not playing. Obika we know about. He couldn't get a game for Brighton and he can't get a start for us.
I can understand why Kermorgant was sold and won't repeat what others have said about that. We might get relegated and its possible we might have stayed up had Kermorgant stayed, but that's speculation. It is simply not possible to be certain about that. What is certain is that his contract would have been outsized and a major liability for a Club playing in Division One.
The real problem is not the sale of Kermorgant, but the desperately disappointing loan and emergency loan windows. What went wrong and who is responsible? Did anybody notice Lukas Jutkiewicz yesterday? I thought he was a real handful for Dervite. Very powerful and held the ball up well. He's scored six goals in 16 games for Bolton. He signed on loan from Middlesborough in January. There was no Chris Eagles for Bolton yesterday. What a difference he'd have made against Barnsley had he played instead of Harriott. What went wrong there?
Let's all be angry and find somebody to blame if we must, but whatever it was that went wrong in January and February there was much more to it than "a terrible decision to sell Kermorgant".
I admit I am very biased on the subject of YK, but I think I am correct in saying that Obika/Fuller/Haynes were all loanees or out of contract when they left - we did not sell them.
As for an automatic contract extension - contracts can be written and rewritten at will (with the consent of both parties) and can contain any number of clauses about relegation etc. CP told YK that there were no new contracts while the club was for sale - understandable - and that a new contract for him was "the first priority for the new owner". It wasn't. The club could have put together any kind of offer to get us to the end of the season - they didn't.
As for possible loanees - we wouldn't need to look at any if we kept our contracted players and did not willingly sell them to clubs in the same division as us. I believe that Eagles turned us down flat.
There is no point in looking elsewhere for the blame - the board made a terrible decision to sell Kermorgant, and they realise that now (partly because they have the advance ST sales data and we don't), yet they are not skilled enough in backtracking to paper over it.
Sending RM on to the pitch yesterday (to not say anything) was as mystifying as it gets.
I have "sent the jury out" several times over this, and they keep coming back with the same verdict.
I was NOT told that he had feigned an injury. That is a most serious accusation. I was told that he had threatened not to play. While a serious accusation in itself, it is not the same thing. Furthermore I reported that conversation in a Trust Skype call at the time, which you may or may not have been in on, but please let's not pretend that it's something I just recently heard.
I think Airman as usual calls it right. Probably both sides not quite telling us the truth (although YK at least telling). I just do not believe based on everything I have seen on the pitch, and indeed based his apparent desire to set things straight with us, that YK is the type of footballer who would feign an injury (for his personal gain). I could believe it of Danny Mills for example...
Semantics mate, semantics - the three of us all heard independently that Kermorgant would not play those one or two additional games which would have triggered an automatic contract extension. This in turn would have crushed YK's negotiating position. So understandable why he did it but I support CAFC not YK's strategy to maximise his earnings. Selling Stephens and letting youth (Poyet) come through was clearly in line with the emerging strategy and has been a successful tactic. As NLA and Henry Irving point out Kermorgant was sold for other reasons. He was not adequately replaced we limp across the finish line...and today's results make it all the more clear just how important it is to back the team next weekend and the following Tuesday. The difference in approach is that my challenge is: who is staying and who is coming in over the summer. The Championship is not actually that good and the right player acquisition and retention could see us really competing next season. I expect that one reason Duchatelet and Meire don't want to talk to you, Razil, and Airman's G21 is that you will be moaning about Kermorgant and Powell instead of asking "what's next" and "how can we help".
For those that seem to have complete certainty that selling Kermorgant was a mistake, I'd suggest reflecting on what has happened this season to Fuller, Haynes and Obika.
Its not so long ago that many people were suggesting that letting these players go (and not making more effort to sign Obika) was a huge mistake and clear evidence of a failure to back Chris Powell. I've no doubt Powell would have retained/signed all three had he been able.
That's all very well Mundell, but just remind me who their strike partner was for much of their time with us?
As I said earlier, it isn't just about goals with Kermorgant. As your stats no doubt prove. He was also an accomplished turd polisher.
My stance remains, and always will, that we should not have let him go.
The Championship is not actually that good and the right player acquisition and retention could see us really competing next season.
You're not the one that's been advising Roland are you? Deluded.
Have to agree, the Championship is getting harder every year because of the amount of "parachute" clubs in the division (Burnley) and those with mega bucks owners(Leicester, QPR).
Unless FPP is properly enforced (don't see it much self) then you are going to struggle.
The Championship is not actually that good and the right player acquisition and retention could see us really competing next season.
You're not the one that's been advising Roland are you? Deluded.
Agree with Leaburn - the top 3 scorers in our division each have 20+ goals, yet that is not enough to put their teams in the top 6. We have scored 31 as a team.
To say the Championship is "not that good" is wrong, as the stats above show that a 20+ goals striker does not even guarantee you a play off place, let alone promotion.
We will probably be packed out with European loanees next season if we stay up. If we go down, we will be back to the Dan Seabourne/Tom Soares/Fred Bassone type players, but at least we won't have to worry where Kermo's 15 grand a week is coming from.
The reason that the board have clammed-up until the season is over is that there are too many tricky questions to answer. As fans, we have just come from a regime that wanted to remain anonymous, and we now have a regime that doesn't want to communicate unless it is on their terms.
Selling Stephens and letting youth (Poyet) come through was clearly in line with the emerging strategy and has been a successful tactic.
Has it? I think Poyet is class but he doesn't score goals and create loads of chances. He keeps possession and breaks up the oppositions play and is excellent at it. Stephens did chip in with goals and was distinctly more offensive minded. Now Stephens and Poyet in the middle, now you're talking.
Selling Stephens and letting youth (Poyet) come through was clearly in line with the emerging strategy and has been a successful tactic.
Has it? I think Poyet is class but he doesn't score goals and create loads of chances. He keeps possession and breaks up the oppositions play and is excellent at it. Stephens did chip in with goals and was distinctly more offensive minded. Now Stephens and Poyet in the middle, now you're talking.
Agree. Poyet has been brilliant, but he has not filled the position that Stephens vacated.
Spoke to my (older) brother today who covers Bournemouth for BBC. He's become a real fans favourite down there already which is hardly surprising. Was immense again yesterday even in defeat. 7 goal in 5 home games so far I think I read, christ we miss him.
The Championship is not actually that good and the right player acquisition and retention could see us really competing next season.
You're not the one that's been advising Roland are you? Deluded.
Agree with Leaburn - the top 3 scorers in our division each have 20+ goals, yet that is not enough to put their teams in the top 6. We have scored 31 as a team.
To say the Championship is "not that good" is wrong, as the stats above show that a 20+ goals striker does not even guarantee you a play off place, let alone promotion.
We will probably be packed out with European loanees next season if we stay up. If we go down, we will be back to the Dan Seabourne/Tom Soares/Fred Bassone type players, but at least we won't have to worry where Kermo's 15 grand a week is coming from.
The reason that the board have clammed-up until the season is over is that there are too many tricky questions to answer. As fans, we have just come from a regime that wanted to remain anonymous, and we now have a regime that doesn't want to communicate unless it is on their terms.
#theydecideandtheshotgunsingsthesong
100% agree that the board are refusing to engage... To me the challenge is for the fans to make the very simple case that a better team makes for more revenue in terms of gates, TV money, cup runs and even player sales. When the ten players depart CAFC this summer should the new owner : A) repeat the mistakes of the January and loan windows and watch crowds dwindle and piss about in 18th... Or keep the best 5 out of contract players and really add to the squad.
@Tutt-Tutt and others would be far more articulate than I but if we improve the four or five worst positions with the right standard of player - basically what we've all been crying out for ever since we returned to the championship - then in my eyes we have a decent squad. In short we should be staying ahead of Sheffield Wednesday and Huddersfield because we were better than them and we have one of the best academies in the division.
Along with the worst pitch and the worst strikers we have ever seen!
A 20 goal a season striker like Mendonca or Hunt from all those years ago or those we've seen playing for Leicester, Burnley, Derby etc. is obviously going to help. We're not going to buy one so can Duchatelet find one in Europe or Africa just as he signed Batshuayi?
This summer there is a clean slate with the chance to change between 1/3 and 1/2 the squad. No idea if Duchatelet will make the most of it but if he doesn't give it his best shot then he is wasting his time and money... and ours! If he doesn't then the ST base is going to drop by maybe 5-10% a year as people vote with their feet.
So we don't need to call him names or attack him and the management because they are Belgian (a la Daily Mail). Just ask him what league position he is aiming for next season and who is going to get the players in to add to the squad and make it happen.
How many goals should we be scoring and how is the new owner going to make it happen?
As I have posted before, he has the money, the opportunity (as above) and the Liege experience to make a difference.
The Championship is not actually that good and the right player acquisition and retention could see us really competing next season.
You're not the one that's been advising Roland are you? Deluded.
Agree with Leaburn - the top 3 scorers in our division each have 20+ goals, yet that is not enough to put their teams in the top 6. We have scored 31 as a team.
To say the Championship is "not that good" is wrong, as the stats above show that a 20+ goals striker does not even guarantee you a play off place, let alone promotion.
We will probably be packed out with European loanees next season if we stay up. If we go down, we will be back to the Dan Seabourne/Tom Soares/Fred Bassone type players, but at least we won't have to worry where Kermo's 15 grand a week is coming from.
The reason that the board have clammed-up until the season is over is that there are too many tricky questions to answer. As fans, we have just come from a regime that wanted to remain anonymous, and we now have a regime that doesn't want to communicate unless it is on their terms.
#theydecideandtheshotgunsingsthesong
100% agree that the board are refusing to engage... To me the challenge is for the fans to make the very simple case that a better team makes for more revenue in terms of gates, TV money, cup runs and even player sales. When the ten players depart CAFC this summer should the new owner : A) repeat the mistakes of the January and loan windows and watch crowds dwindle and piss about in 18th... Or keep the best 5 out of contract players and really add to the squad.
@Tutt-Tutt and others would be far more articulate than I but if we improve the four or five worst positions with the right standard of player - basically what we've all been crying out for ever since we returned to the championship - then in my eyes we have a decent squad. In short we should be staying ahead of Sheffield Wednesday and Huddersfield because we were better than them and we have one of the best academies in the division.
Along with the worst pitch and the worst strikers we have ever seen!
A 20 goal a season striker like Mendonca or Hunt from all those years ago or those we've seen playing for Leicester, Burnley, Derby etc. is obviously going to help. We're not going to buy one so can Duchatelet find one in Europe or Africa just as he signed Batshuayi?
This summer there is a clean slate with the chance to change between 1/3 and 1/2 the squad. No idea if Duchatelet will make the most of it but if he doesn't give it his best shot then he is wasting his time and money... and ours! If he doesn't then the ST base is going to drop by maybe 5-10% a year as people vote with their feet.
So we don't need to call him names or attack him and the management because they are Belgian (a la Daily Mail). Just ask him what league position he is aiming for next season and who is going to get the players in to add to the squad and make it happen.
How many goals should we be scoring and how is the new owner going to make it happen?
As I have posted before, he has the money, the opportunity (as above) and the Liege experience to make a difference.
The confidence you show for us actually staying in this league astounds me.
There is another urban legend going around, which I give no more or less creedence to than NLA's version of events.
It is that Katrien was so taken aback by the firestorm from the fans when it became clear he was off, that she phoned RD to ask if he might not want to reconsider.
Now, if he had been sold because he had been "holding RD to ransom", "tried to play hardball and lost", and all the other romantic macho urban legend fantasy, do you really think Katrien would even bother to make such a call?
There are obviously two sides to this story and both camps (Yann's and the club), I suggest, are being selective with the facts they choose to acknowledge.
Totally agree with this statement, AB.
I posted something similar the other day ie I find it hard to believe that ANYONE that posts on here knows the complete truth/story regarding the issues we debate.
Rumours/hearsay /spin /Chinese whispers as well as the possibility of out & out lies .....who knows what colours our opinions ?
Unless you WERE that fly on the wall when THAT conversation took place, you will never be 100% sure that you are correct and everyone else is deluded.
For those that seem to have complete certainty that selling Kermorgant was a mistake, I'd suggest reflecting on what has happened this season to Fuller, Haynes and Obika.
Its not so long ago that many people were suggesting that letting these players go (and not making more effort to sign Obika) was a huge mistake and clear evidence of a failure to back Chris Powell. I've no doubt Powell would have retained/signed all three had he been able.
For the record, Fuller has made 15 appearances for Blackpool and scored just 4 goals. Their only chance of survival is to beat us on the last day of the season and hope. Danny Haynes had 21 appearances at Notts County, scoring 3 goals. It looks like they are being relegated to Division 2, but despite that they've shipped Haynes out on loan to Hibs where he's not playing. Obika we know about. He couldn't get a game for Brighton and he can't get a start for us.
I can understand why Kermorgant was sold and won't repeat what others have said about that. We might get relegated and its possible we might have stayed up had Kermorgant stayed, but that's speculation. It is simply not possible to be certain about that. What is certain is that his contract would have been outsized and a major liability for a Club playing in Division One.
The real problem is not the sale of Kermorgant, but the desperately disappointing loan and emergency loan windows. What went wrong and who is responsible? Did anybody notice Lukas Jutkiewicz yesterday? I thought he was a real handful for Dervite. Very powerful and held the ball up well. He's scored six goals in 16 games for Bolton. He signed on loan from Middlesborough in January. There was no Chris Eagles for Bolton yesterday. What a difference he'd have made against Barnsley had he played instead of Harriott. What went wrong there?
Let's all be angry and find somebody to blame if we must, but whatever it was that went wrong in January and February there was much more to it than "a terrible decision to sell Kermorgant".
Fuller has scored 4 goals in 15 - would you say Church is an improvement on that? Or Sordell? Or Reza? Or Polish Pete? Or Pigott? If not, losing him weakened our team.
There is another urban legend going around, which I give no more or less creedence to than NLA's version of events.
It is that Katrien was so taken aback by the firestorm from the fans when it became clear he was off, that she phoned RD to ask if he might not want to reconsider.
Now, if he had been sold because he had been "holding RD to ransom", "tried to play hardball and lost", and all the other romantic macho urban legend fantasy, do you really think Katrien would even bother to make such a call?
There are obviously two sides to this story and both camps (Yann's and the club), I suggest, are being selective with the facts they choose to acknowledge.
Totally agree with this statement, AB.
I posted something similar the other day ie I find it hard to believe that ANYONE that posts on here knows the complete truth/story regarding the issues we debate.
Rumours/hearsay /spin /Chinese whispers as well as the possibility of out & out lies .....who knows what colours our opinions ?
Unless you WERE that fly on the wall when THAT conversation took place, you will never be 100% sure that you are correct and everyone else is deluded.
Maybe we should put our fly swatters away ....
Yes but none if this should distract from a conspiracy theory that has little substance.
When did he feign injury? When he didn't play at Doncaster the official line from the club was that he was being rested.
Actually he started the Doncaster game, although I think the whole performance was dictated by what was going on with RD behind the scenes, including with Kermorgant. It was the FA Cup game at Huddersfield he missed.
Comments
Even though at the time I thought that this this looked like good business, I now think that this sale was a huge mistake. We may still stay up, however it will be by the skin of our teeth. With Yann still here we would be safe by now.
Staggering!
I admit I am very biased on the subject of YK, but I think I am correct in saying that Obika/Fuller/Haynes were all loanees or out of contract when they left - we did not sell them.
As for an automatic contract extension - contracts can be written and rewritten at will (with the consent of both parties) and can contain any number of clauses about relegation etc. CP told YK that there were no new contracts while the club was for sale - understandable - and that a new contract for him was "the first priority for the new owner". It wasn't.
The club could have put together any kind of offer to get us to the end of the season - they didn't.
As for possible loanees - we wouldn't need to look at any if we kept our contracted players and did not willingly sell them to clubs in the same division as us. I believe that Eagles turned us down flat.
There is no point in looking elsewhere for the blame - the board made a terrible decision to sell Kermorgant, and they realise that now (partly because they have the advance ST sales data and we don't), yet they are not skilled enough in backtracking to paper over it.
Sending RM on to the pitch yesterday (to not say anything) was as mystifying as it gets.
I have "sent the jury out" several times over this, and they keep coming back with the same verdict.
Or we can all agree it's in and around 13 to 15 and we offers between 10 and 12 depending who you talk to
Selling Stephens and letting youth (Poyet) come through was clearly in line with the emerging strategy and has been a successful tactic.
As NLA and Henry Irving point out Kermorgant was sold for other reasons. He was not adequately replaced we limp across the finish line...and today's results make it all the more clear just how important it is to back the team next weekend and the following Tuesday.
The difference in approach is that my challenge is: who is staying and who is coming in over the summer.
The Championship is not actually that good and the right player acquisition and retention could see us really competing next season.
I expect that one reason Duchatelet and Meire don't want to talk to you, Razil, and Airman's G21 is that you will be moaning about Kermorgant and Powell instead of asking "what's next" and "how can we help".
As I said earlier, it isn't just about goals with Kermorgant. As your stats no doubt prove. He was also an accomplished turd polisher.
My stance remains, and always will, that we should not have let him go.
Unless FPP is properly enforced (don't see it much self) then you are going to struggle.
To say the Championship is "not that good" is wrong, as the stats above show that a 20+ goals striker does not even guarantee you a play off place, let alone promotion.
We will probably be packed out with European loanees next season if we stay up.
If we go down, we will be back to the Dan Seabourne/Tom Soares/Fred Bassone type players, but at least we won't have to worry where Kermo's 15 grand a week is coming from.
The reason that the board have clammed-up until the season is over is that there are too many tricky questions to answer. As fans, we have just come from a regime that wanted to remain anonymous, and we now have a regime that doesn't want to communicate unless it is on their terms.
#theydecideandtheshotgunsingsthesong
A) repeat the mistakes of the January and loan windows and watch crowds dwindle and piss about in 18th... Or
@Tutt-Tutt and others would be far more articulate than I but if we improve the four or five worst positions with the right standard of player - basically what we've all been crying out for ever since we returned to the championship - then in my eyes we have a decent squad. In short we should be staying ahead of Sheffield Wednesday and Huddersfield because we were better than them and we have one of the best academies in the division.
Along with the worst pitch and the worst strikers we have ever seen!
A 20 goal a season striker like Mendonca or Hunt from all those years ago or those we've seen playing for Leicester, Burnley, Derby etc. is obviously going to help. We're not going to buy one so can Duchatelet find one in Europe or Africa just as he signed Batshuayi?
This summer there is a clean slate with the chance to change between 1/3 and 1/2 the squad. No idea if Duchatelet will make the most of it but if he doesn't give it his best shot then he is wasting his time and money... and ours! If he doesn't then the ST base is going to drop by maybe 5-10% a year as people vote with their feet.
So we don't need to call him names or attack him and the management because they are Belgian (a la Daily Mail). Just ask him what league position he is aiming for next season and who is going to get the players in to add to the squad and make it happen.
How many goals should we be scoring and how is the new owner going to make it happen?
As I have posted before, he has the money, the opportunity (as above) and the Liege experience to make a difference.
I posted something similar the other day ie I find it hard to believe that ANYONE that posts on here knows the complete truth/story regarding the issues we debate.
Rumours/hearsay /spin /Chinese whispers as well as the possibility of out & out lies .....who knows what colours our opinions ?
Unless you WERE that fly on the wall when THAT conversation took place, you will never be 100% sure that you are correct and everyone else is deluded.
Maybe we should put our fly swatters away ....