This simple idea that when we win we're excellent and when we lose we're terrible is a very basic and narrow assessment of our performances. Against Brighton we were rubbish but we were not rubbish today.
Is anyone going to tell me Barnsley deserved anything?
When Barnsley passed to one another they generally found their mark, and the player receiving generally held on to it for long enough to control the ball. It was that basic. Our players were consistently muscled off the ball and failed to control passes. They didn't create much, god knows, but they played to their strengths. I'm not sure what ours were.
You joking or what? Barnsley's ball control was shocking and most of their passes were to our players
First goal was down to wood. Mvoto was his man. We watched it, wood wasn't interested at all.
Exactly my take on it terrible defending and Hamer appeared to duck yes duck under the cross come shot for the second, wtf was that all about. And don't start me on the ref he still needed the linesman to signal our goal when the bloke who kicked it out was lying in the back of the net, shocking performance and no control whatsoever over the game.
Astonished by the comments on this thread . We played well, we dominated the game we just cannot score. The team played with passion and belief for 75+ mins and were beaten by a poor team who got lucky. I was at Brighton and the step up in performance was remarkable , we deserved more. Not all rosy though, Harriot had a nightmare and worried we will be without wiggins.
One of the few sensible posts.
"Not all rosy". FFS, there's an understatement. I can only imagine you're 4 and it was your first game, unless you were lucky enough to have your seat facing away from the pitch. Otherwise there's no rational explanation for anyone to possibly think that was a team playing well. We were woeful. They were even worse and they beat us.
As my 12 year old son said how the hell can the polish fella not get in our team up front. That fact alone is feckin criminal and sums things up, we pay for us a fortune for a shit polish forward who can't get in the team in front of our shit forwards.
Astonished by the comments on this thread . We played well, we dominated the game we just cannot score. The team played with passion and belief for 75+ mins and were beaten by a poor team who got lucky. I was at Brighton and the step up in performance was remarkable , we deserved more. Not all rosy though, Harriot had a nightmare and worried we will be without wiggins.
totally agree with this comment, for the most part of the game the team moved the ball well, closed down players and now we are actually starting to get the ball forward with a bit of belief through midfield, unfortunately up front still not sorted and we seem to lack any confident finish at the top. Yes Harriot had a bad game tonight and also was off the pace last game as well, but for F's sake do not write him off, some of the comments on here are ludicrously unsupportive I just hope he doesn't read any of them. For me tonight's game would have suited Piggott more with ball played into his feet and maybe Reza / Obika running off him. To be fair to Poyet and Cousins they are more defensive midfield than offensive and they both put more than a shift in tonight and did well getting the ball to go forwards, I would like to see a naturally offensive midfield player in there which is what AA is and he just needs to get back to match fitness after flu to be able to last longer.
This result was always on the cards. Some joker earlier today thought we would win 4 -0. This was either a wind-up or he's stopped taking the medication. Typical Charlton....get the chance to put some serious breathing space between the pack against a poor side and what do we do? Well, actually we did what we have been doing all season...fuck all. We couldn't score in a brothel. For Christ's sake push Poyet up and lets see what he can create around the opposition's box. Worst set of forwards I have ever seen playing for Charlton...and I've been coming since 1967. Unless the other stiffs at the bottom keep on losing I fear we will be playing Yeovil again next season. So sad what has happened to our club, just can't find the enthusiasm any more but I guess I will be there on Friday and for the remaining last rites.
Belgian businessman and political ideologist Roland Duchatelet has completed a full takeover of Championship team Charlton Athletic.
Charlton currently sit in 19th in the Championship table, 3 points above the relegation zone.
He came in, sacked the manager, sold Kermorgant, and brought in a load of players that the existing manager would never have chosen (well he might have chosen AA, but AA would never have passed the medical). And what is the result? (because "businessmen" are all about results, aren't they ?)
Charlton currently sit 21st in the Championship table, 1 point above the relegation zone.
I rest my frigging case, NLA
"Livid" of Prague
We were still in the FA Cup before Ronald McDonald took over too. At least he isn't as barmy at Cardiff's owner but then again Cardiff's owner has the wonga to match his depraved choice of talent sourcing - the closest we've got to wonga this season is a payday loan, yet we've still had to put up with a bunch of asthmatic misfits who couldn't even get first team football in whatever Sunday leagues we scoured them from.
'"We have young players so maybe it's the pressure of the situation. But we still have destiny in our hands. They needed to win, we did not."
What?!?!? Of course we needed to win Jose, we're one point above the drop and not safe at all!!!
Another learning for the mathematician. Growing your own young players is the right long term strategy. But there's a time and place to rely on them in the first team. Near the top of the Belgian league, in a team that is already very good, may be one. In a team that is struggling at the foot of the Championship, is not.
I don't think CP should have been sacked, but neither am I going to get on Riga's case now. He's there because he carries out the RD "vision". It is the vision of a man who is playing with things he does not understand.
Was there tonight and agree with most posts on here,strange team selection,Barnsley there for the taking and we had enough of the play to get something from the game. Just seen the goals on ssn,as stated,joke defending for their 1st and the 2nd????? Total fluke but Hamer shouldve saved it,no question. Fearl that the kick in the balls of losing this game could do for us
Belgian businessman and political ideologist Roland Duchatelet has completed a full takeover of Championship team Charlton Athletic.
Charlton currently sit in 19th in the Championship table, 3 points above the relegation zone.
He came in, sacked the manager, sold Kermorgant, and brought in a load of players that the existing manager would never have chosen (well he might have chosen AA, but AA would never have passed the medical). And what is the result? (because "businessmen" are all about results, aren't they ?)
Charlton currently sit 21st in the Championship table, 1 point above the relegation zone.
I rest my frigging case, NLA
"Livid" of Prague
We were still in the FA Cup before Ronald McDonald took over too. At least he isn't as barmy at Cardiff's owner but then again Cardiff's owner has the wonga to match his depraved choice of talent sourcing - the closest we've got to wonga this season is a payday loan, yet we've still had to put up with a bunch of asthmatic misfits who couldn't even get first team football in whatever Sunday leagues we scoured them from.
We hadnt even played in the Third Round against Oxford when RD took over
Belgian businessman and political ideologist Roland Duchatelet has completed a full takeover of Championship team Charlton Athletic.
Charlton currently sit in 19th in the Championship table, 3 points above the relegation zone.
He came in, sacked the manager, sold Kermorgant, and brought in a load of players that the existing manager would never have chosen (well he might have chosen AA, but AA would never have passed the medical). And what is the result? (because "businessmen" are all about results, aren't they ?)
Charlton currently sit 21st in the Championship table, 1 point above the relegation zone.
I rest my frigging case, NLA
"Livid" of Prague
We were still in the FA Cup before Ronald McDonald took over too. At least he isn't as barmy at Cardiff's owner but then again Cardiff's owner has the wonga to match his depraved choice of talent sourcing - the closest we've got to wonga this season is a payday loan, yet we've still had to put up with a bunch of asthmatic misfits who couldn't even get first team football in whatever Sunday leagues we scoured them from.
We hadnt even played in the Third Round against Oxford when RD took over
I thought the first 20 minutes we really took the game to them and looked okay but, as ever, didn't take our chances. They managed to score two goals from not really creating anything and the game was up. We can blame the ref and slag off Barnsley but the fact of the matter is that the majority of our home games this season have been the same-we look okay, play pretty well, but don't score and, invariably the other team manages to put the ball in the net.
Positives were our Academy players (other than Harriot, bless him)-Solly, Cousins and Poyet look so good on the ball and glad that we will get a season + of at least two of them and Obika looked pretty good I thought and will improve with games, keep him in the team and not on the wing.
Lots of negatives which I don't want to go into detail about but the main one was the treatment of Harriot-he's an Academy player trying his heart out but having a (very) bad day. Just shut up you idiots. It brought back memories of that Kim Grant game v Notts County, some of my worst as a Charlton fan.....
(1) Well done the fans... Harriott has a mare so they get on his back helping his head to drop even further... As for the header he's tiny its not gonna be something he'd work on, that chance was just sadly wrong player at the wrong time
(2) Long ball was just futile and played into Barnsley's hands especially the big lump Mvoto who won everything when the ball went near him
(3) Sordell... Why not shoot when your clear on goal either you score or you might win a penalty which you tried to get... Either way we'd have been back in it
(4) Chris Solly... Good to see him given game time but was always gonna be subbed
(5) Morrison / Wilson... They've worked their socks off for weeks so needed a rest, could have done it against Brighton but then had we lost by more with those two missing it could have damaged our GD (which could be extremely important) and had they been rested people would still have moaned wanting to know why
(6) Genius from Diego Poyet when subbed... Referee looked as confused as hell when he did it and Poyet had to explain why a few times it seemed - Should be put into the rule book depending which side of the pitch your closest to stop players time wasting
(For those not there his number came up to be replaced by AA when he was right by the East Stand, instead of wasting time he left the pitch that side allowing AA to come on from the West whilst Poyet walked around the edge of the pitch)
a post with reason thank god, totally agree re Poyet and also thought Solly brought composure to the RH side and would have liked to see Lawrie in front of him earlier in there game but also got the team slection tonight after Brighotns game to rest a few players ahead of Fridays game against Bolton, unfortunately tonights team selection missing up front, agree with earlier comment bring on Piggot and let him have rest of season up there to allow him to get into the game, gutted for Wiggins
The thing is, until the first goal we were by far the best team, Sordell and Obika stretched their defence, and their passing was pathetically bad. If we had kept it at nil nil they would have panicked even more going for the goal they needed. Instead we give them a soft goal, and our lack of cutting edge once again showed. Barnsley are very poor though, obviously they had space in the second half as we were chasing the game, but I can't see them picking up many more points in their remaining 4 games. That consolation goal cut the negative goal difference between us to -2 instead of -4 which might be important in May too...
Riga just said that Wiggins is out for the season.
It's all very well blaming our probable relegation on a 20 year old winger for missing a header.
Me, I prefer to blame a 67 year old mathematician who knows less about football than I do, for selling our one decent striker. Oh, and the other jokers for not giving that striker a new contract earlier, so that this joker wouldn't find it so easy to sell him.
If you was the new chairman would you pay the sort of money yann wanted, for a 32 year old out of contract or would you accept the half a mil ? Honest question that's all . Think I'm gonna stay off here for a while , people need to calm down . Its in our hands still , keep the razors away tonight guys .
How much did yann want then mate. What sort of figures are we talking??
I realise you are asking someone else, but I can answer. The answer is, less than what Bournemouth, a good outside bet for the playoffs are paying him. And about half what Noel Hunt, the same age more or less, apparently earns....
Goals came from cock ups on our part again. First already been mentioned. Second was caused by devrete and hamer fecking about and gave them a throw in on their left that they scored from. With the early news on wiggins not looking good and rigas last 2 starting line ups I reckon our back line on Friday will be morro devrete wood Wilson.
Two hours after the game and I still can't believe we have lost to that Barnsley team. However, selection-wise, Riga could have done little more to assist the Tykes. Sordell was appalling on Saturday, yet is asked to lead the attack again. If Obika plays, he must play as an out and out striker. All season we have been waiting to get Wilson back at RM, yet now we have the opportunity to do so, he is left on the bench. We choose our weakest centre-half partnership for the season's biggest game. Out of form Harriott is asked to play on the right, rather than his natural position. You'd be forgiven for thinking that the Manager was trying to sabotage our chances of staying up….
A game of football that would not have looked out of place a couple of divisions lower. Utter, utter garbage played out on a pitch which would grace Avery Hill Park. Both teams go down on that showing.
Barnsley very poor, there for the taking which would have seen us all but safe IMO. Inexplicably we drop Morro and play Wood who I just do not rate and who then lets his player score from a corner, deflects one into our goal and misses a sitter at their end.
We drop Wilson who could have played on the right wing where he does so well, to play a left winger there who has a shocker, then in the second half we move the left winger to the left wing, he starts to improve so we sub him off bringing on Reza the lightest of lightweights, not a bloke you want fighting your corner when you are already down.
Then off comes Solly for Wilson, our right winger and attacking threat, to play RB.
Finally, we take off the one bloke in the middle who can break up play and start an attack.
It was unbelievably poor tactics and team selection that started the rot and poor substitutions that carries it on.
How we did not get a shot on target in the first half I will never know Wood, Harriet obvious headed chances but what on earth was Obika thinking with both Hamers passes in the first few minutes, unable to fashion anything out of them whatsoever, just pathetic.
Sadly it is our lack of goals from our lack of strikers that will cause us to fall, hopefully none of Church, Sordell, Obika and Reza will be anywhere near this club.
Just a poor team selection tonight, players out of position and slow build up play made it very easy for Barnsley to defend.
Not sure why Dervite wasn't marking M'voto instead of Wood when he was clearly their biggest threat considering his size, or even double teamed, instead his was given a free run up for the goal and got on the end of another corner which again Charlton didn't learn from the 1st mistake.
Subs where Powell like, Late and for the wrong players and the lack of Creative subs bar Ajdarević shows we don't have a plan B or nobody that can come on and change a game.
The one positive we can take is that Bolton can't prepare for this week's game - seriously, how do you prepare to play a team that takes 91 minutes to get a shot on target against a team that wasn't particularly defensively threatening (judging by the posts of those in attendance)? You'd have an easier time planning tactics to take on a team of corgis.
Not much wrong with the over all attitude of the players. We just needed to get our noses in front when we were in the ascendency. Definitely missed a physical target man striker whether it's Yann or someone else. We carried on trying after going behind but never had that cutting edge quality to our forward play. Flukey 2nd for sure. We did not lack effort just quality. Story of our season.
I thought we played to about the same standard as the Yeovil game - okish but certainly nothing special.
To my mind, we don't look like a unit. Barnsley were very poor but did look like a team. They were quite organised just incompetent.
We looked confused at times. Having no threat up front is likely to mean we won't scramble enough points.
Cousins worked his socks off and looked committed to the cause. Jackson did his best to rally the troops and will still be a good leader if we are in L1 next year. Diego played as though he may be better than Gus one day. The rest huffed and puffed at best.
I also find it strange. After the win against Yeovil, the consensus seemed to be - get Brighton out of the way and we have an easy run in. Tonight, every game we have left looks difficult. Perhaps, it's simply that we are barely good enough for this division.
If Riga is the special one, he's got a decent challenge to prove it. He might be bringing more beautiful football but in the two games I have seen, his teams do not look like a team if you get my point.
Firstly the positive - we actually have played worse than that - now the negatives - we need luck to score as we don't have intelligence or composure up front. Barnsley needed a lot more luck than we did tonight to score but got it - I think it is fair to say they had one chance and scored 2 goals!! What the game did highlight was why we are at the bottom - the reasons are: 1) Whilst defensively we are ok, we are prone to lapses - 2) When clearing or passing the ball under no pressure we don't take enough care - a defender before he is heading out should have an idea where the red shirts are - ours always clear aimlessly - when a simple pass is required, more often than not we will underhit or overhit it - this is because too many of our players lack the technique of being able to use the time they have to put extra effort in their focus. 3) When defences play with numbers, you need players who can beat a man - Harriot ought to be our key but he has gone so far backwards this season it is almost unbelievable - he lacks the confidence to take the game to opponents - look at Wiggins running at them and then look at Harriots pitiful efforts - he is now playing with fear and if the opportunity to lay it off presents itself he invariably takes it 4) But if he does or somebody else does get in a position to cross we don't have players making the runs into the box and when we do (usually because we are chasing the game) they honestly don't have the footballing intelligence to know where to run to.
Lastly 5) our strikers have no footballing intelligence or composure - nobody could have illustrated this point better than Sordell tonight, so I'll focus on him - firstly he has raw ability - that is clear but when know how and composure is required - like the free header with his legs planted on the floor (making it much easier) brain should go into focus mode -look at the goal and head through the ball, Then through on goal, focus mode - challenge can come in so tap ball forwards to take defender out of play, you will have decided already where ball will be placed - place it there! Sordell was like a rabit in the headlights and then, good through ball, Sordell not playing off the shoulder - still retrievable as defenders not quick but took him 3 seconds to react - so no one on one this time. My last example was a cross from the left, Sordell in the middle with 2 defenders - now our crosses are hit of miss so can easily be short in the middle or long - short and he has no chance - in the middle and he has to beat 2 defenders, so arc a run back to the far post to elude the defender - if the ball does come to you (which it did) you are free. If it had come to the iddle it would have most likely been cleared. Football intelligence that our strikers do not possess - using Sordell is for illustration purposes.
Now %50-50 rather than 90-30. We can get out of this because apart from up front we are better than a bottom side and if luck was even we would have won tonight - and we can get luck on Friday - you never know. One thing is for sure - if we do survive some changes in key areas need to be made- the frustrating thing is, that if they are we might be a pretty useful side.
Point to manager - Why not rest Morro and Wilson against Brighton. Why play so long with an out of sorts Harriot when he is a waste of a player in his current form.Solly is a great player but not up to speed - I think the instruction would have been - no avoidable set pieces - and that corner was avoidable! WHy start him in such a match - Wilson needed a rest, but that rest should ave been on Saturday.
In 2009 I remember a match against Doncaster Rovers at The Valley at a similar stage of the season which we lost 2-1 on a torrentially wet night. Our squad had given up by then and in all honesty Doncaster could have won by more. I knew as the rain ran down my neck as I walked up Charlton Church Lane that we were down. That was a defining match and so it proved to be.
I had a similar feeling tonight even though, unlike Racon et al, the squad actually put a shift in. Unfortunately, injury time scrambled corner notwithstanding, we cannot score goals and that will prove to be our undoing.
We have an honest squad of players but the body language as they walked off was that of defeated men. They know they are down. The confidence has gone. Wiggins, one of the few capable of running at anything faster than a jog, is probably out for the season so the defence which had kept us in it will be decimated and exposed.
Chris Powell was regularly criticised for his team selections and substitutions so I am going to commit Charlton Life sacrilege and criticise St Jose since he has almost certainly taken us down. This match was a classic six pointer so why leave our best centre half, Morrison, on the bench and play Claude Rains Richard Wood? Harriott's confidence is shot so why start with him rather than Wilson? Harriott is an impact player whereas Lawrie is a steady one.
I don't think we'd be any worse off had Powell stayed and would probably be better in fact.
So over the summer prepare to lose Poyet, Cousins and possibly Morrison and Hamer and prepare to welcome which ever Belgian dross is out of favour within the "network"
Comments
I don't think CP should have been sacked, but neither am I going to get on Riga's case now. He's there because he carries out the RD "vision". It is the vision of a man who is playing with things he does not understand.
Positives were our Academy players (other than Harriot, bless him)-Solly, Cousins and Poyet look so good on the ball and glad that we will get a season + of at least two of them and Obika looked pretty good I thought and will improve with games, keep him in the team and not on the wing.
Lots of negatives which I don't want to go into detail about but the main one was the treatment of Harriot-he's an Academy player trying his heart out but having a (very) bad day. Just shut up you idiots. It brought back memories of that Kim Grant game v Notts County, some of my worst as a Charlton fan.....
Barnsley are very poor though, obviously they had space in the second half as we were chasing the game, but I can't see them picking up many more points in their remaining 4 games. That consolation goal cut the negative goal difference between us to -2 instead of -4 which might be important in May too...
Second was caused by devrete and hamer fecking about and gave them a throw in on their left that they scored from.
With the early news on wiggins not looking good and rigas last 2 starting line ups I reckon our back line on Friday will be morro devrete wood Wilson.
Sordell was appalling on Saturday, yet is asked to lead the attack again. If Obika plays, he must play as an out and out striker. All season we have been waiting to get Wilson back at RM, yet now we have the opportunity to do so, he is left on the bench. We choose our weakest centre-half partnership for the season's biggest game. Out of form Harriott is asked to play on the right, rather than his natural position.
You'd be forgiven for thinking that the Manager was trying to sabotage our chances of staying up….
A game of football that would not have looked out of place a couple of divisions lower.
Utter, utter garbage played out on a pitch which would grace Avery Hill Park.
Both teams go down on that showing.
We drop Wilson who could have played on the right wing where he does so well, to play a left winger there who has a shocker, then in the second half we move the left winger to the left wing, he starts to improve so we sub him off bringing on Reza the lightest of lightweights, not a bloke you want fighting your corner when you are already down.
Then off comes Solly for Wilson, our right winger and attacking threat, to play RB.
Finally, we take off the one bloke in the middle who can break up play and start an attack.
It was unbelievably poor tactics and team selection that started the rot and poor substitutions that carries it on.
How we did not get a shot on target in the first half I will never know Wood, Harriet obvious headed chances but what on earth was Obika thinking with both Hamers passes in the first few minutes, unable to fashion anything out of them whatsoever, just pathetic.
Sadly it is our lack of goals from our lack of strikers that will cause us to fall, hopefully none of Church, Sordell, Obika and Reza will be anywhere near this club.
Not sure why Dervite wasn't marking M'voto instead of Wood when he was clearly their biggest threat considering his size, or even double teamed, instead his was given a free run up for the goal and got on the end of another corner which again Charlton didn't learn from the 1st mistake.
Subs where Powell like, Late and for the wrong players and the lack of Creative subs bar Ajdarević shows we don't have a plan B or nobody that can come on and change a game.
To my mind, we don't look like a unit. Barnsley were very poor but did look like a team. They were quite organised just incompetent.
We looked confused at times. Having no threat up front is likely to mean we won't scramble enough points.
Cousins worked his socks off and looked committed to the cause. Jackson did his best to rally the troops and will still be a good leader if we are in L1 next year. Diego played as though he may be better than Gus one day. The rest huffed and puffed at best.
I also find it strange. After the win against Yeovil, the consensus seemed to be - get Brighton out of the way and we have an easy run in. Tonight, every game we have left looks difficult. Perhaps, it's simply that we are barely good enough for this division.
If Riga is the special one, he's got a decent challenge to prove it. He might be bringing more beautiful football but in the two games I have seen, his teams do not look like a team if you get my point.
Harriott was a pile of dog doodie
Lastly 5) our strikers have no footballing intelligence or composure - nobody could have illustrated this point better than Sordell tonight, so I'll focus on him - firstly he has raw ability - that is clear but when know how and composure is required - like the free header with his legs planted on the floor (making it much easier) brain should go into focus mode -look at the goal and head through the ball, Then through on goal, focus mode - challenge can come in so tap ball forwards to take defender out of play, you will have decided already where ball will be placed - place it there! Sordell was like a rabit in the headlights and then, good through ball, Sordell not playing off the shoulder - still retrievable as defenders not quick but took him 3 seconds to react - so no one on one this time. My last example was a cross from the left, Sordell in the middle with 2 defenders - now our crosses are hit of miss so can easily be short in the middle or long - short and he has no chance - in the middle and he has to beat 2 defenders, so arc a run back to the far post to elude the defender - if the ball does come to you (which it did) you are free. If it had come to the iddle it would have most likely been cleared. Football intelligence that our strikers do not possess - using Sordell is for illustration purposes.
Now %50-50 rather than 90-30. We can get out of this because apart from up front we are better than a bottom side and if luck was even we would have won tonight - and we can get luck on Friday - you never know. One thing is for sure - if we do survive some changes in key areas need to be made- the frustrating thing is, that if they are we might be a pretty useful side.
Point to manager - Why not rest Morro and Wilson against Brighton. Why play so long with an out of sorts Harriot when he is a waste of a player in his current form.Solly is a great player but not up to speed - I think the instruction would have been - no avoidable set pieces - and that corner was avoidable! WHy start him in such a match - Wilson needed a rest, but that rest should ave been on Saturday.
Rant over!
In 2009 I remember a match against Doncaster Rovers at The Valley at a similar stage of the season which we lost 2-1 on a torrentially wet night. Our squad had given up by then and in all honesty Doncaster could have won by more. I knew as the rain ran down my neck as I walked up Charlton Church Lane that we were down. That was a defining match and so it proved to be.
I had a similar feeling tonight even though, unlike Racon et al, the squad actually put a shift in. Unfortunately, injury time scrambled corner notwithstanding, we cannot score goals and that will prove to be our undoing.
We have an honest squad of players but the body language as they walked off was that of defeated men. They know they are down. The confidence has gone. Wiggins, one of the few capable of running at anything faster than a jog, is probably out for the season so the defence which had kept us in it will be decimated and exposed.
Chris Powell was regularly criticised for his team selections and substitutions so I am going to commit Charlton Life sacrilege and criticise St Jose since he has almost certainly taken us down. This match was a classic six pointer so why leave our best centre half, Morrison, on the bench and play
Claude RainsRichard Wood? Harriott's confidence is shot so why start with him rather than Wilson? Harriott is an impact player whereas Lawrie is a steady one.I don't think we'd be any worse off had Powell stayed and would probably be better in fact.
So over the summer prepare to lose Poyet, Cousins and possibly Morrison and Hamer and prepare to welcome which ever Belgian dross is out of favour within the "network"
Whoopy fucking doo!