I think BK is pretty amenable to discussion.. We had a problem earlier in the season when the old Celebration Suite (now Keith peacock Suite) was moved. My elderly father who has severe mobility problems, couldn't get up the stairs to the new Celebration Suite. I contacted BK and he was very helpful and sorted out our problem to our satisfaction. It is very expensive to use the hospitality package, but Dad is happy to pay as it enables him to continue watching Charlton.
and whilst on the subject of groups, what's the deal with the Target 40k Committee that was always the link group / decider on things like ticket prices etc. Was that group behind this ? has it been disbanded etc ?
and whilst on the subject of groups, what's the deal with the Target 40k Committee that was always the link group / decider on things like ticket prices etc. Was that group behind this ? has it been disbanded etc ?
The Target 40k committee hasn't met since the summer off 2012, unsurprisingly, but as Richard likes to tell people he is getting the Trust to advise the club now.
I'm not sure if this means Craig Norris, Steve Clarke, Ben Hayes et al are more people who have "been at the club too long" - unlike him, of course - but at least we can be sure none of them were being paid "Premiership wages".
"CAS Trust and members of the Fans Forum were invited to give feedback during a consultation exercise, allowing the club to gauge fan opinion."
So what feedback was given Raz if these are the end results ?
Would like to know that too. Who exactly was consulted, about what and when because these plans weren't presented at the last FF meeting as I undertand it.
If the Trust saw these plans in advance did they then agree with them?
At the last Fans Forum meeting Ben Kensall asked for volunteers to attend a special meeting about his new ideas for season ticket prices. Most FF members (including the Trust member) agreed to attend and the meeting was held in early Feb. I wasn't at the meeting and maybe people who were will be able to be more specific, but my understanding is that a number of radical proposals were made by Ben. Some were welcomed and some were warned against. I think he has modified his original proposals in the light of the feedback he received at the meeting but he hasn't necessarily acted on all the feedback he received. In the end that is what consultation is.
and whilst on the subject of groups, what's the deal with the Target 40k Committee that was always the link group / decider on things like ticket prices etc. Was that group behind this ? has it been disbanded etc ?
Disappeared a couple of years ago. The meetings just stopped rather than being disbanded. I think the last one was in the very early days of the Kevin Cash regime.
This is just the sort of thing T40k went over and reviewed with plenty of arguments back and forth. Those proposals had costings and projections too.
It never decided prices but it made recommendations to the board who always made the final decision.
BK formerly of Arsenal trying stuff that works at Arsenal but not at a Division 2 perhaps soon to be Division 3 team. It's going down like a cup of sick and other such ideas will, not many care about a good match day experience in League One.. cold Tuesday night against Fleetwood the last thing I want is to arrive early for a programme and a pint
Take advantage of our discounted drinks promotions before the game, terms and conditions apply. (buy 20 get 1 free offers are subject to status, must be over 5"10 with no history of alcohol abuse or excessive hair loss)
Seems to me the trust is the 'OK, The Fans Will Be Fine' mechanism for the club at the moment?
Does that seem unfair? Possibly but that's how it seems to be.
Seems to me, as a season ticket holder directly affected by this, that the Trust has got its arse in gear pretty damned promptly and sorted it out.
Hardly Club "puppets" in my view.
Have they? How? They say they have been in consultation with the Club about the price changes but seem reluctant to say for how long and about what.
What have they sorted? They may have clarified it but why didn't they do that before while they were being "consulted"?
I'm not the Trust (other than paying my fiver as an individual member) but there is a big distinction between being involved in "consultation" and "decision making."
From my perspective, as one directly affected by all this, the Trust has acted proactively and gained a written commitment that affected season ticket holders will not be unceremoniouly hoofed out of their seats or forced to sign up for Crossbars if they renew by 9 April.
There was a consultation which was embargoed as mentioned, we have only had full sight on the final detailed proposals in writing since last night (also embargoed). As I understand it all the FF and the Trust were invited to attend the consultation meeting, I believe that concerns were raised that fans not be compelled to move, perhaps someone who attended can shed light on the make up, from us only Kevin attended.
The Trust's preference is for a more strategic approach similar to Target 40k, perhaps called Fill the Valley, and although we did begin this, it wasn't taken up, possibly due to the instability around takeover attempts and eventual buy out etc. We will continue to push for this though. As also mentioned there is the match day experience survey, which is the closest we have come to that kind of approach.
I understand an embargo being put in place on club staff and employees and staff but I don't get it on a Trust.
What's the point in being in those meetings as the Trust if you can't discuss the proposals with the people you're meant to be representing? It feels a completely empty gesture by the club to include you.
So forced to stump up early or face a 230 quid penalty for staying in your own seat?
Depends how you look at it. 'Option' of paying early or move a couple rows back is another way to see it.
So your 3 mates renew early as they have the money and can afford to do so, whilst you wait a month or so and sit on your Jack Jones looking longingly at the Crossbars Crew.
Excuse my French, but this is a complete load of shit.
If you are a present member of Crossbars & sit in the East or West, you can no longer be a member, unless you move to The North Upper, where you obviously don't want to be, or you'd be sitting there already.
If you're sitting in the front of The Upper North, where you obviously want to be, probably for the atmosphere.
The season after next, you'll have to move & if you want the cheaper seats, move to the East Stand Block A.
The East Stand Block A, that is where some of our lads went to last season against Huddersfield and were subsequently kettled by the police & had all their personal details taken, in the most disgusting & agressive manner.
I'm sorry Ben Kensell but you are a complete fool.
If people want to join crossbars let them & if they want to access the facilities at half time, tell them they can do so, by sitting in the North Upper.
Why upset so many people.
We've got @12,000 empty home seats & you want to turf me out of mine, you cretin.
By god you have a dwindling S/T base & you are doing you're best to reduce it further.
I really am flabergasted at the sheer incompetence & stupidity.
Excuse my French, but this is a complete load of shit.
If you are a present member of Crossbars & sit in the East or West, you can no longer be a member, unless you move to The North Upper, where you obviously don't want to be, or you'd be sitting there already.
If you're sitting in the front of The Upper North, where you obviously want to be, probably for the atmosphere.
Next season you'll have to move & if you want the cheaper seats, move to the East Stand Block A.
The East Stand Block A, that is where some of our lads went to last season against Huddersfield and were subsequently kettled by the police & had all their personal details taken, in the most disgusting & agressive manner.
I'm sorry Ben Kensell but you are a complete fool.
If people want to join crossbars let them & if they want to access the facilities at half time, tell them they can do so, by sitting in the North Stand.
Why upset so many people.
We've got @12,000 empty home seats & you want to turf me out of mine, you cretin.
By god you have a dwindling S/T base & you are doing you're best to reduce it further.
I really am flabergasted at the sheer incompetence & stupidity.
I wouldn't get that agitated about it, because it's not going to happen. They've already retreated on moving people from their upper north seats and soon they will discover that they can't sell anything like the number of lounge places they are seeking, so there will be a policy reversal to get the east/west stand people back in there.
There seems to be an acceptance that the club couldn't give a flying one about getting relegated this year, but compounding that by agitating the few remaining fans who will turn up every week doesn't seem great business to me.
In round figures, I'll be asked to stump up a further £130 for what I already get, the only difference being I'll watch even worse football than this year. No way Pedro.
I understand an embargo being put in place on club staff and employees and staff but I don't get it on a Trust.
What's the point in being in those meetings as the Trust if you can't discuss the proposals with the people you're meant to be representing? It feels a completely empty gesture by the club to include you.
I think people forget a few differences between now and the previous era, no fans director, no paid CASC secretary, no fans working in the club, the divide between club and board bigger than ever arguably in the modern era.
Yet we create a Trust where others have failed, we gain access to the top level of the club, and now a new senior team, we achieved ACV, we are highly regarded by other fan groups outside CAFC, compare very well to other trusts particularly for our web presence and membership levels, and are not even 2 years in the running.
Despite this there are many who choose not to support us with their fiver, their goodwill, their membership of our board, or help with our volunteering, but find fault in pretty much everything we do, that of course is their prerogative.
I'm not suggesting we are perfect nor that we deserve a blank cheque because we work hard or sacrifice a lot, but that we are often overstretched and undermanned. Kev and I both have young families and busy jobs (mostly) but put an enormous effort in to the Trust, as do other members of the Board who have less responsibilities.
What I am suggesting here is that this Trust is for Charlton fans and we will get from it what we are all prepared to put in. If you have ideas about what a Trust should be doing and how it could be run better get involved, we need to plan our next years approach and I know there are one or two exciting ideas we'd like to get off the ground.
Block A in the East is pretty cheap....you could always get a season ticket there and sit in an empty seat in another block....if your that way inclind.
Excuse my French, but this is a complete load of shit.
If you are a present member of Crossbars & sit in the East or West, you can no longer be a member, unless you move to The North Upper, where you obviously don't want to be, or you'd be sitting there already.
If you're sitting in the front of The Upper North, where you obviously want to be, probably for the atmosphere.
Next season you'll have to move & if you want the cheaper seats, move to the East Stand Block A.
The East Stand Block A, that is where some of our lads went to last season against Huddersfield and were subsequently kettled by the police & had all their personal details taken, in the most disgusting & agressive manner.
I'm sorry Ben Kensell but you are a complete fool.
If people want to join crossbars let them & if they want to access the facilities at half time, tell them they can do so, by sitting in the North Stand.
Why upset so many people.
We've got @12,000 empty home seats & you want to turf me out of mine, you cretin.
By god you have a dwindling S/T base & you are doing you're best to reduce it further.
I really am flabergasted at the sheer incompetence & stupidity.
I wouldn't get that agitated about it, because it's not going to happen. They've already retreated on moving people from their upper north seats and soon they will discover that they can't sell anything like the number of lounge places they are seeking, so there will be a policy reversal to get the east/west stand people back in there.
I hope you are right. I sit about 3 rows in front of Covered End and cant drink at games because I want to drive.
Why should I be forced to join Crossbars to keep my seat.
Excuse my French, but this is a complete load of shit.
If you are a present member of Crossbars & sit in the East or West, you can no longer be a member, unless you move to The North Upper, where you obviously don't want to be, or you'd be sitting there already.
If you're sitting in the front of The Upper North, where you obviously want to be, probably for the atmosphere.
Next season you'll have to move & if you want the cheaper seats, move to the East Stand Block A.
The East Stand Block A, that is where some of our lads went to last season against Huddersfield and were subsequently kettled by the police & had all their personal details taken, in the most disgusting & agressive manner.
I'm sorry Ben Kensell but you are a complete fool.
If people want to join crossbars let them & if they want to access the facilities at half time, tell them they can do so, by sitting in the North Stand.
Why upset so many people.
We've got @12,000 empty home seats & you want to turf me out of mine, you cretin.
By god you have a dwindling S/T base & you are doing you're best to reduce it further.
I really am flabergasted at the sheer incompetence & stupidity.
Can't argue with that Covered End.....what a load of bollocks.
It seems to me they could make a hell of a lot more money by employing a couple more people who are capable of serving drinks and food at half time/before the game to combat the demand. Id have at least 1 more pint per game if it wasnt such a faf, and I bet there are plenty like me
Up until this season I had three crossbars tickets, plus three season tickets (1 adult 1 under 18 and 1 under 11). But was thinking about getting them again next season because i miss using it before the game.
I am 100% certain that now I will not be getting them. Why would I want to pay so much extra for my 10 yr old son to use crossbars. He wont use the "complementry" drinks, he wont want a programme, all he wants is chips, and somewhere warm to wait before the game!
Also does the club really think that by having the first 6 rows occupied by people prepared to pay £550 to have the best view of the game are going to be the same type of people who sing, shout and create a attmosphere? Or will they going to moan about the swearing, the loud druming noise and how the bouncy bouncy spills the contents out of their flasks? (What i mean by that is, they are obviously touting the NU as the place too but its where the youth sit, its the "home end" where we support the team, where the normal person sits, not the elite from the East or West).
Comments
Does that seem unfair? Possibly but that's how it seems to be.
Hardly Club "puppets" in my view.
I'm not sure if this means Craig Norris, Steve Clarke, Ben Hayes et al are more people who have "been at the club too long" - unlike him, of course - but at least we can be sure none of them were being paid "Premiership wages".
At the last Fans Forum meeting Ben Kensall asked for volunteers to attend a special meeting about his new ideas for season ticket prices. Most FF members (including the Trust member) agreed to attend and the meeting was held in early Feb.
I wasn't at the meeting and maybe people who were will be able to be more specific, but my understanding is that a number of radical proposals were made by Ben. Some were welcomed and some were warned against. I think he has modified his original proposals in the light of the feedback he received at the meeting but he hasn't necessarily acted on all the feedback he received. In the end that is what consultation is.
This is just the sort of thing T40k went over and reviewed with plenty of arguments back and forth. Those proposals had costings and projections too.
It never decided prices but it made recommendations to the board who always made the final decision.
Have they? How? They say they have been in consultation with the Club about the price changes but seem reluctant to say for how long and about what.
What have they sorted? They may have clarified it but why didn't they do that before while they were being "consulted"?
I think I've seen other clubs try this in the Champions League and there have been no takers at all.
From my perspective, as one directly affected by all this, the Trust has acted proactively and gained a written commitment that affected season ticket holders will not be unceremoniouly hoofed out of their seats or forced to sign up for Crossbars if they renew by 9 April.
That deserves praise in my view.
The Trust's preference is for a more strategic approach similar to Target 40k, perhaps called Fill the Valley, and although we did begin this, it wasn't taken up, possibly due to the instability around takeover attempts and eventual buy out etc. We will continue to push for this though. As also mentioned there is the match day experience survey, which is the closest we have come to that kind of approach.
What's the point in being in those meetings as the Trust if you can't discuss the proposals with the people you're meant to be representing? It feels a completely empty gesture by the club to include you.
Depends how you look at it. 'Option' of paying early or move a couple rows back is another way to see it.
If you are a present member of Crossbars & sit in the East or West, you can no longer be a member, unless you move to The North Upper, where you obviously don't want to be, or you'd be sitting there already.
If you're sitting in the front of The Upper North, where you obviously want to be, probably for the atmosphere.
The season after next, you'll have to move & if you want the cheaper seats, move to the East Stand Block A.
The East Stand Block A, that is where some of our lads went to last season against Huddersfield and were subsequently kettled by the police & had all their personal details taken, in the most disgusting & agressive manner.
I'm sorry Ben Kensell but you are a complete fool.
If people want to join crossbars let them & if they want to access the facilities at half time, tell them they can do so, by sitting in the North Upper.
Why upset so many people.
We've got @12,000 empty home seats & you want to turf me out of mine, you cretin.
By god you have a dwindling S/T base & you are doing you're best to reduce it further.
I really am flabergasted at the sheer incompetence & stupidity.
There seems to be an acceptance that the club couldn't give a flying one about getting relegated this year, but compounding that by agitating the few remaining fans who will turn up every week doesn't seem great business to me.
In round figures, I'll be asked to stump up a further £130 for what I already get, the only difference being I'll watch even worse football than this year. No way Pedro.
Yet we create a Trust where others have failed, we gain access to the top level of the club, and now a new senior team, we achieved ACV, we are highly regarded by other fan groups outside CAFC, compare very well to other trusts particularly for our web presence and membership levels, and are not even 2 years in the running.
Despite this there are many who choose not to support us with their fiver, their goodwill, their membership of our board, or help with our volunteering, but find fault in pretty much everything we do, that of course is their prerogative.
I'm not suggesting we are perfect nor that we deserve a blank cheque because we work hard or sacrifice a lot, but that we are often overstretched and undermanned. Kev and I both have young families and busy jobs (mostly) but put an enormous effort in to the Trust, as do other members of the Board who have less responsibilities.
What I am suggesting here is that this Trust is for Charlton fans and we will get from it what we are all prepared to put in. If you have ideas about what a Trust should be doing and how it could be run better get involved, we need to plan our next years approach and I know there are one or two exciting ideas we'd like to get off the ground.
Why should I be forced to join Crossbars to keep my seat.
I am 100% certain that now I will not be getting them. Why would I want to pay so much extra for my 10 yr old son to use crossbars. He wont use the "complementry" drinks, he wont want a programme, all he wants is chips, and somewhere warm to wait before the game!
Also does the club really think that by having the first 6 rows occupied by people prepared to pay £550 to have the best view of the game are going to be the same type of people who sing, shout and create a attmosphere? Or will they going to moan about the swearing, the loud druming noise and how the bouncy bouncy spills the contents out of their flasks? (What i mean by that is, they are obviously touting the NU as the place too but its where the youth sit, its the "home end" where we support the team, where the normal person sits, not the elite from the East or West).