Why people would want to stay at the Valley and not move to a new stadium in GREENWICH is beyond me - football has changed and you have to see the bigger picture - i was there in the town hall that night punching the air in delight when Alwen announced the move back but now i would very much welcome a new stadium in GREENWICH watching decent football in prem. IMHO if Charlton moved to a 40000 - 50000 stadium and were playing in the prem with realistic ticket prices and a half decent team the ground would be full, maybe not all hardcore Charlton fans but nether the less full.
Would you be happy being in a stadium you don't own compared to the Valley which you do own
Why people would want to stay at the Valley and not move to a new stadium in GREENWICH is beyond me - football has changed and you have to see the bigger picture - i was there in the town hall that night punching the air in delight when Alwen announced the move back but now i would very much welcome a new stadium in GREENWICH watching decent football in prem. IMHO if Charlton moved to a 40000 - 50000 stadium and were playing in the prem with realistic ticket prices and a half decent team the ground would be full, maybe not all hardcore Charlton fans but nether the less full.
Would you be happy being in a stadium you don't own compared to the Valley which you do own
Would you also be happy having 25,000 plus plastic fans making now noise like the QPR fans today (Seriously how quiet was their fans today)
Why people would want to stay at the Valley and not move to a new stadium in GREENWICH is beyond me - football has changed and you have to see the bigger picture - i was there in the town hall that night punching the air in delight when Alwen announced the move back but now i would very much welcome a new stadium in GREENWICH watching decent football in prem. IMHO if Charlton moved to a 40000 - 50000 stadium and were playing in the prem with realistic ticket prices and a half decent team the ground would be full, maybe not all hardcore Charlton fans but nether the less full.
Would you be happy being in a stadium you don't own compared to the Valley which you do own
Would you also be happy having 25,000 plus plastic fans making now noise like the QPR fans today (Seriously how quiet was their fans today)
No I wouldn't
I ve been watching Charlton since Feb 1950 and the Valley is our home however I would only consider a move if we own the new
Well the noise the loyal fans made against millwall at The Valley was deafening </blockquote My recollection there was little to shout about....... I was too busy moaning, personally at the team performance, or lack of it.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
Greenwich council have already made the plans there is definitely a football stadium at the Peninsula
Actually I missed this post - much of what you say is valid and I have to say has made me think.
I also got your post mixed up with someone else's who assures me that there was no intention to be patronising.
I therefore apologise to both of you.
No problem. let's move on.
Indeed - Thank you
If the other apology was meant for me then there really was no need. I have an incredibly thick skin when it comes to posting on forums. But fair play to you.
For what it's worth I completely understand where you're coming from on this, just feel a bit uncomfortable with it all if I'm honest. Still, it would certainly be a better "problem" to have then wondering when we're going bust!
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
Greenwich council have already made the plans there is definitely a football stadium at the Peninsula
Maybe I've missed something then. Does it mean we are definitely the ones who will be using it? This is a long thread so maybe I missed where it was said its for us then.
Ps -not having a go like some people are in this chat
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
Greenwich council have already made the plans there is definitely a football stadium at the Peninsula
Not quite correct. A very vague "sports stadium". In their model, the spectators don't even enjoy a roof over their heads. Probably an unwitting comment on the contempt with which Cllr Roberts and his 'cabinet' hold us.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
Greenwich council have already made the plans there is definitely a football stadium at the Peninsula
Not quite correct. A very vague "sports stadium". In their model, the spectators don't even enjoy a roof over their heads. Probably an unwitting comment on the contempt with which Cllr Roberts and his 'cabinet' hold us.
Sorry my mistake I was led to believe they had definite plans for a multi purpose stadium which they wanted a football team to use
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
Greenwich council have already made the plans there is definitely a football stadium at the Peninsula
Not quite correct. A very vague "sports stadium". In their model, the spectators don't even enjoy a roof over their heads. Probably an unwitting comment on the contempt with which Cllr Roberts and his 'cabinet' hold us.
Sorry my mistake I was led to believe they had definite plans for a multi purpose stadium which they wanted a football team to use
I think when it comes to any "plans" Greenwich may have then it will all be a bit fluid at the moment.
A commercial developer probably wouldn't dream of building a sports stadium there, but a Local Authority has a responsibility to ensure that the development of an area contains a desired blend of commercial and community facilities, along with proper infrastructure, etc (which is largely already there).
A stadium would tick a lot of boxes for them, particularly if as part of the whole deal somewhere like The Valley was redeveloped.
Ultimately, who knows just yet. It's all guesswork.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves. Firstly let's see if the takeover even happens. Then lets see what division we are in next season. Then lets see what players come in and how we start playing next season, then see if we are good enough to even get into the premier league and stay there. Maybe then we can see if there is any need to move.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
Greenwich council have already made the plans there is definitely a football stadium at the Peninsula
No there isn't.
The original Greenwich Council 2010 'masterplan' included a a "40,000 seat arena, seemingly based on American baseball grounds in concept.... an open bowl, with the main stands to the south and east and open views towards Canary Wharf” - not a football stadium.
However, since then a property company (Cathedral Group Plc) has now got a lease on this proposed 'stadium' site (Morden Wharf) and has already published very different plans; which at the moment "consist of a 5,000 capacity indoor entertainment area and a 10,000 capacity outdoor events space" , and have appointed international architects OMA to design it:
What this means is - unless Cathedral are our prospective new owners - there is probably only a limited time window for any new owners to negotiate with Cathedral (and the Council) to change their plans into something more suitable to a Championship/Premiership football club.
However, what I think is clear, is that any new owners would only consider moving from the valley if they could develop the valley site for housing. But that would only be financially viable if they didn't have to pay the cost of building a new stadium (on the peninsula or elsewhere). The Council won't pay to build it either. So any new stadium would almost certainly be 'multi-purpose' and be built by a property company (like Cathedral) with Charlton as one of the tenants - and you only have to look at Coventry (and possibly West Ham in the future - who can't fill the Boleyn at the moment) to see how that could turn out.
A commercial developer probably wouldn't dream of building a sports stadium there, but a Local Authority has a responsibility to ensure that the development of an area contains a desired blend of commercial and community facilities, along with proper infrastructure, etc (which is largely already there).
A stadium would tick a lot of boxes for them, particularly if as part of the whole deal somewhere like The Valley was redeveloped.
Ultimately, who knows just yet. It's all guesswork.
What infrastruture? one tube station whicn does not link to the Charlton heartland.
A commercial developer probably wouldn't dream of building a sports stadium there, but a Local Authority has a responsibility to ensure that the development of an area contains a desired blend of commercial and community facilities, along with proper infrastructure, etc (which is largely already there).
A stadium would tick a lot of boxes for them, particularly if as part of the whole deal somewhere like The Valley was redeveloped.
Ultimately, who knows just yet. It's all guesswork.
What infrastruture? one tube station whicn does not link to the Charlton heartland.
I think that roads, a tube station and established bus routes fits into the infrastructure being "largely there" category for a developer. Think about what was in docklands when they started developing it - nothing!
But I agree that the tube station is fcuk all good to about 90% of our fanbase, but to a developer it's a massive plus.
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
Valley site is more desirable when it comes to social housing though.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
Valley site is more desirable when it comes to social housing though.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area
Of 30,000 fans attending a football match in the afternoon, a fair amount would be attracted to the idea of a nice meal afterwards before attending a concert of some description in the O2. An expensive day out, which is why the business plan would be geared towards attracting corporate clients, and perhaps cashed up travelers from a recently docked cruise ship.
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
Valley site is more desirable when it comes to social housing though.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
Valley site is more desirable when it comes to social housing though.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area
Of 30,000 fans attending a football match in the afternoon, a fair amount would be attracted to the idea of a nice meal afterwards before attending a concert of some description in the O2. An expensive day out, which is why the business plan would be geared towards attracting corporate clients, and perhaps cashed up travelers from a recently docked cruise ship.
I can see it now: "day 9, your ship docks in London, historic, cosmopolitan centre of world class theatre music and sport. Collect your complementary ticket from the bursar for a trip ashore to see an exciting match between top English soccer teams Charlton Athletc and Huddersfield Town".
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
Valley site is more desirable when it comes to social housing though.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area
Of 30,000 fans attending a football match in the afternoon, a fair amount would be attracted to the idea of a nice meal afterwards before attending a concert of some description in the O2. An expensive day out, which is why the business plan would be geared towards attracting corporate clients, and perhaps cashed up travelers from a recently docked cruise ship.
I can see it now: "day 9, your ship docks in London, historic, cosmopolitan centre of world class theatre music and sport. Collect your complementary ticket from the bursar for a trip ashore to see an exciting match between top English soccer teams Charlton Athletc and Huddersfield Town".
They had better build the stadium before the luxury flats otherwise you will have the NIMBY brigade protesting at the planning meetings, that their area would be blighted and the property values affected, but then the flats will probally bought by the overseas people as the people of Greenwich would not be able to afford them.
The plans for the development of a stadium built on the peninsula doesn't make much sense to me. Surely, luxury appartments overlooking the Thames and the dome would bring in a lot more to a developer than homes built on the Valley site.
Valley site is more desirable when it comes to social housing though.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area
Of 30,000 fans attending a football match in the afternoon, a fair amount would be attracted to the idea of a nice meal afterwards before attending a concert of some description in the O2. An expensive day out, which is why the business plan would be geared towards attracting corporate clients, and perhaps cashed up travelers from a recently docked cruise ship.
I can see it now: "day 9, your ship docks in London, historic, cosmopolitan centre of world class theatre music and sport. Collect your complementary ticket from the bursar for a trip ashore to see an exciting match between top English soccer teams Charlton Athletc and Huddersfield Town".
They will travel from far and wide for that game, just to see Huddersfield's unbeaten run continue. :-)
Comments
I ve been watching Charlton since Feb 1950 and the Valley is our home however I would only consider a move if we own the new
ground. Tenancy is a total no no for me .
Don't remember us moaning then.
Personally I can't see any move even if being seriously contemplated happening for years to come yet. We've got to get a strong consistent team first then get into the premiership and stay there and to be even remotely looking like bringing in the big crowds before anyone would consider buying us a bigger stadium elsewhere. Unless whoever is buying us has a bottomless pit of money to throw away... which I doubt.
I don't want to leave the Valley. Its our ground and many fans and former board members worked hard to get us there. However if we were to ever be in a position where we are playing a high enough quality of football week in week out that would guarantee a capacity sellout crowd eay above what a finished Valley could hold then and only then would be stupid not to move.
Lets wait and see
For what it's worth I completely understand where you're coming from on this, just feel a bit uncomfortable with it all if I'm honest. Still, it would certainly be a better "problem" to have then wondering when we're going bust!
Ps -not having a go like some people are in this chat
A commercial developer probably wouldn't dream of building a sports stadium there, but a Local Authority has a responsibility to ensure that the development of an area contains a desired blend of commercial and community facilities, along with proper infrastructure, etc (which is largely already there).
A stadium would tick a lot of boxes for them, particularly if as part of the whole deal somewhere like The Valley was redeveloped.
Ultimately, who knows just yet. It's all guesswork.
The original Greenwich Council 2010 'masterplan' included a a "40,000 seat arena, seemingly based on American baseball grounds in concept.... an open bowl, with the main stands to the south and east and open views towards Canary Wharf” - not a football stadium.
http://londondocklands.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/greenwich-peninsula-and-the-mystery-stadium/
However, since then a property company (Cathedral Group Plc) has now got a lease on this proposed 'stadium' site (Morden Wharf) and has already published very different plans; which at the moment "consist of a 5,000 capacity indoor entertainment area and a 10,000 capacity outdoor events space" , and have appointed international architects OMA to design it:
http://www.cathedralgroup.com/current-projects/morden-wharf/#more-2783
http://christophersmithassociates.co.uk/?page_id=1021:
http://www.oma.eu/news/2013/oma-appointed-by-cathedral-group-and-development-securities-to-masterplan-morden-wharf-development-on-greenwich-peninsula
What this means is - unless Cathedral are our prospective new owners - there is probably only a limited time window for any new owners to negotiate with Cathedral (and the Council) to change their plans into something more suitable to a Championship/Premiership football club.
However, what I think is clear, is that any new owners would only consider moving from the valley if they could develop the valley site for housing. But that would only be financially viable if they didn't have to pay the cost of building a new stadium (on the peninsula or elsewhere). The Council won't pay to build it either. So any new stadium would almost certainly be 'multi-purpose' and be built by a property company (like Cathedral) with Charlton as one of the tenants - and you only have to look at Coventry (and possibly West Ham in the future - who can't fill the Boleyn at the moment) to see how that could turn out.
A commercial developer probably wouldn't dream of building a sports stadium there, but a Local Authority has a responsibility to ensure that the development of an area contains a desired blend of commercial and community facilities, along with proper infrastructure, etc (which is largely already there).
A stadium would tick a lot of boxes for them, particularly if as part of the whole deal somewhere like The Valley was redeveloped.
Ultimately, who knows just yet. It's all guesswork.
What infrastruture? one tube station whicn does not link to the Charlton heartland.
I think that roads, a tube station and established bus routes fits into the infrastructure being "largely there" category for a developer. Think about what was in docklands when they started developing it - nothing!
But I agree that the tube station is fcuk all good to about 90% of our fanbase, but to a developer it's a massive plus.
Build a shiny New stadium on the peninsula with luxury apartments, shops and entertainment facilities, keep social housing away from the area