I know it's a bit much when they're probably going to beat us 5-0 but this aussie team really aren't that good. Can't see them doing anything away to south africa next month
The only decent thing we have done all series is expose that gobby little twat George Bailey as an absolute imposter at Test level - surely they can't pick him for SA.
The only problem is we have had nine of the same in our XI - the exceptions being Stokes and Broad.
Surely, surely, surely one of our batsmen has GOT TO SCORE A CENTURY in this innings?
I know it's a bit much when they're probably going to beat us 5-0 but this aussie team really aren't that good. Can't see them doing anything away to south africa next month
I've heard that all winter. It was shite at the start of the tour, and it's still shite now. Lehman has turned them into a very good team - without world beaters, but they all play for each other and give 100% effort.
The only decent thing we have done all series is expose that gobby little twat George Bailey as an absolute imposter at Test level - surely they can't pick him for SA.
The only decent thing we have done all series is expose that gobby little twat George Bailey as an absolute imposter at Test level - surely they can't pick him for SA.
Can't decide who I dislike more. Him or Warner.
Bailey seems like quite a decent bloke. Mind you, you'd probably prefer to go for a beer with Pol Pot if Warner is your other option. That bloke is an utter turd.
The only decent thing we have done all series is expose that gobby little twat George Bailey as an absolute imposter at Test level - surely they can't pick him for SA.
Can't decide who I dislike more. Him or Warner.
Bailey seems like quite a decent bloke. Mind you, you'd probably prefer to go for a beer with Pol Pot if Warner is your other option. That bloke is an utter turd.
Bailey never stops smirking and sledging from short-leg even though he is about as much of a Test batsman as Boyd Rankin is a Test bowler.
At least get some credit in the bank before you start chirping at experienced Test players, even if you are winning easy.
My hatred league for the Aussies is: Warner, Haddin, Clarke, Johnson, Bailey, Watson.
Harris, Rogers and Lyon seem decent enough in that they don't spend the entire game gobbing off.
The problem is that England had reached the very top and the signs have been there that they have been sliding down before the tour. Understandable loyalty to players who got us there will now be replaced with the realisation that we will have to start again. No bad thing really.
I suspect we are about to witness "Whitewash 2", i.e. the complete exoneration (by players-turned-commentators) of each one of the (fallen) "Stars" of this shambolic side. Cook? Totally inept as Captain. "Well he wasn't the only one to have his brain scrambled and to get no runs and he's been such a prolific run scorer in the past and this really wasn't his team. He now has to stamp his authority on matters......" yadda yadda yadda Prior? "Well I'd bring him back because he has done in the past what Haddin has done in this series and he's 5 years younger than Haddin...." yadda yadda yadda Bell & Pieterson? "They're England's best batsmen......" yadda yadda yadda Anderson and Broad? "Well they were overworked because of others failures......" yadda yadda yadda Their salvation lies in the fact that they were all abysmal. No..........."Carberry and Panesar just weren't up to it and must go".
This England will rightfully go down as one of the worst in Ashes history. To be so comprehensively spanked by an Aussie team, that is at best average, is a national embarrassment. They have shown no techncial ability and absolutely no will to fight. In the summer Andy Flower kept harping on about how this England side would go to Australia as the best prepared side ever. They had dossiers coming out of their arses apparently. Yet in all this preparation their coaches and sports psychologists clearly missed or thought it was fine to put Jonathan Trott out into cauldron when he was in a fragile state. How could they also not see that Graeme Swann would pull the plug after only 3 tests saying he wasnt up to the rigours of test cricket anymore. We have had the bowling coach admitting they may have got their selection wrong halfway through a game. All in all it has been an utter shambles and heads should definitely roll.
Pathetic non show from England in all of the five tests. It has been embarrassing to watch. The only player who has come out with any credit is Stokes. Cook pathetic batting and captaincy. Most of our senior players, Cook Pieterson, Bell, Prior,Swann have let us down. It is now time for harsh decisions to be made by Downton and co, starting with the removal of Flower as head coach and Cook as captain. We need to start rebuilding for the Ashes in 2015.
Whilst Australia were competing with India, our players were resting. We went into this series smug, arrogant and undercooked (excuse the pun). We didn't learn the lessons the recent series in England was trying to tell us - that it was much closer than the 3-0 suggested.
Broad with 21 wickets at 27.52 and 73 with the bat in the final Test shows he does have the stomach for a fight. Let's not forget that he was the one targetted more than any other player by the Aussie players and supporters.
5-0 was the right result and it affords no hiding place for the players, coaches or selectors. And it gives the autorities the opportunity to re-evaluate not just the Test side but the game at home as a whole. By that I mean if you breed one day players you get one day results and that the technique of too many of our players are based on "two gear" batting - a "block or smash" mentality. Poor shot selection was THE main reason that none of our batsmen finished in the top six of series run scorers.
Until we create wickets in the County Championship that promote the bowling of spin at home we will struggle to produce quality spinners. Swann was a "one off" but was undoubdetly helped by the fact that he played at International level against Teams with a proliferation of left handers. This, combined with the fact that he was, in reality, the only recognised Engalnd spinner, allowed him to learn and enhance his craft at International level as opposed to in the County Championship .
My son is over there. He said don't buy a paper, don't turn on the TV and just forget this series ever happened. I would have sent our chumps out in pink tutu's.
We just need to rebuild -lots of new talent waiting in the wings. This series allows us a blank sheet of paper and to start a new plan for success. Better in some ways than seeing a great side fizzle out gradually.
A most humbling of Test series we had better learn from. Our final innings was what, 32 overs?? Really had nothing left.
Some good players coming through but was unfair to try them in the furnace of a one sided Ashes series. Am excited by Stokes' performances. And Cook has many years ahead still. He will be a legend in the game. Broad was also decent with bat and ball but not supported enough in the bowling attack. And something is not right behind the scenes for our team to have performed so consistently badly. I am sure it will get weeded out.
At this stage, we should thank the England players and staff for their success in recent years. I have been immensely proud of what they have achieved.
Some where in this thread I said that after the first test I worried incase England had been psychologically damaged for the rest of the series and so it proved. The Australians did not beat England, they destroyed us. Every time they got there hands on our throats they squeezed tighter and tighter, squeezing every last breath out of this side. I have never seen in sport a team destroy another team in this way since the great West Indies teams, but they were a good team, this Australian team were Ok, but time will show they are nothing special.
At this point I wish to invoke my dual nationality (at least until Englands second series in the Summer) - Bhangria army!!!!!
What a dismal series, was it only 2 months ago when the unfancied Australians were targeting Broad as public enemy number one. As it turns out, he was the only one of the established players to deliver.
You really wonder at the squad selection, and that goes back to the Oval when they tried Woakes and Kerrigan and dumped them after one game. People like Rankin and Tremlett got on the plane instead, and looked completely at sea. Our batting was poor last summer, Root played one decent innings, Cook wasn't great, but we were helped by English style pitches, made for our bowlers.
The problem for England, and it's not a new one, is that when batting they manage to be both slow AND reckless. They get stuck playing defensively, then play stupid attacking shot and get out.
I do wonder at the regimented, scientific style of coaching and team management, the Aussies were transformed by being in Lehmann, who's much more of a man manager and bloke.
Whilst Australia were competing with India, our players were resting. We went into this series smug, arrogant and undercooked (excuse the pun). We didn't learn the lessons the recent series in England was trying to tell us - that it was much closer than the 3-0 suggested.
England allowed themselves to get embroiled in the sledging nonsense in the opening couple of tests and lost focus. The Australians thrive on that sort of thing and are completely unfazed by it. England think they are unfazed by it but they're not.
Batting-wise England lacked quality at the top of the order and Cook hasn't been able to cope with the pressure of skippering and opening. He needed a decent partner to take the pressure of him a bit but Carberry has been out of his depth against excellent bowling. There isn't an easy answer to that one as there don't appear to be many candidates for opening bat. Carberry's not a bad player and may grow into the job but time isn't on his side. On purely cricketing grounds I would have preferred Robson because he's got buckets of bottle but he would be just another foreigner in a team of foreigners. Trott's leg-side bias was sussed out a while ago by Australia and he's had no answer. Pieterson has lost interest now that it's not going his way and could be a disruptive influence. Bell is a fine player but has some technical issues outside off stump which have been ruthlessly exploited by good bowlers. Root is promising but ended up being relied on too much because the main men weren't up to it. Prior is a fighter but was out of form with the bat. I think he'll be back. Stokes has played with freedom, hitting the ball cleanly and is the only England player that would make it into the Joint XI for the series. Bairstow seems scared when he bats and looks way short of Test level.
Bowling wise England have looked thin. Anderson has been well below par but not a complete disaster in terms of economy and Broad has been ok. Both have tended to bowl a bit short probably because they haven't been able to swing the ball as much as Harris. Tremlett was a mistake and was picked on previous performances. I watched him a couple of times in the summer and he looked partially fit and ordinary. Not playing Finn has been a mistake although I accept he's not as accurate as he needs to be. I don't accept "he hasn't been bowling well in the nets" as a reason for not picking him as nets can be very misleading. Stokes has promise with the ball but at the moment is loose against top batsman. He may tighten up in the way that Flintoff did and has already shown an ability to take wickets. Swann has been used to being treated with respect but the Australians used their feet from ball one against him and he/Cook allowed singles to be picked off at will, which lead to greater destruction later in the innings. On the other hand England have allowed Lyon to bowl at them with men around the bat for long periods. Lots of people have under-estimated Lyon but he's been a massive improvement on Hauritz from the moment he got in the team. I expect him to continue bowling well for Australia.
England were carrying a couple of inexperienced players in their top order on a tough tour. They needed their experienced players to step up regularly but almost to a man those experienced players have been found wanting. Cook is the man that provides the platform for the others to flourish. He's struggled and it's exposed the others.
In terms of captaincy, Cook has struggled. He's a good man and a fine player but he doesn't look the part to me as a captain. I'm not saying he should lose the job (because there don't seem to be too many viable alternatives) but he may have to if England are to get the best out of him as a batsman.
If I were picking an England team to play a 6th Test.....
1. Cook 2. Robson 3. Root 4. Bell 5. Ballance 6. Prior 7. Stokes 8. Broad 9. Tredwell 10. Anderson 11. Finn
Comments
England need just 448 for victory!!
The only problem is we have had nine of the same in our XI - the exceptions being Stokes and Broad.
Surely, surely, surely one of our batsmen has GOT TO SCORE A CENTURY in this innings?
Awful.
At least get some credit in the bank before you start chirping at experienced Test players, even if you are winning easy.
My hatred league for the Aussies is: Warner, Haddin, Clarke, Johnson, Bailey, Watson.
Harris, Rogers and Lyon seem decent enough in that they don't spend the entire game gobbing off.
"How do you get bowled out in 32 overs? I would have just been getting my eye in"
Cook? Totally inept as Captain. "Well he wasn't the only one to have his brain scrambled and to get no runs and he's been such a prolific run scorer in the past and this really wasn't his team. He now has to stamp his authority on matters......" yadda yadda yadda
Prior? "Well I'd bring him back because he has done in the past what Haddin has done in this series and he's 5 years younger than Haddin...." yadda yadda yadda
Bell & Pieterson? "They're England's best batsmen......" yadda yadda yadda
Anderson and Broad? "Well they were overworked because of others failures......" yadda yadda yadda
Their salvation lies in the fact that they were all abysmal.
No..........."Carberry and Panesar just weren't up to it and must go".
It is now time for harsh decisions to be made by Downton and co, starting with the removal of Flower as head coach and Cook as captain. We need to start rebuilding for the Ashes in 2015.
Stokes looks like a genuine all rounder.
Broad with 21 wickets at 27.52 and 73 with the bat in the final Test shows he does have the stomach for a fight. Let's not forget that he was the one targetted more than any other player by the Aussie players and supporters.
5-0 was the right result and it affords no hiding place for the players, coaches or selectors. And it gives the autorities the opportunity to re-evaluate not just the Test side but the game at home as a whole. By that I mean if you breed one day players you get one day results and that the technique of too many of our players are based on "two gear" batting - a "block or smash" mentality. Poor shot selection was THE main reason that none of our batsmen finished in the top six of series run scorers.
Until we create wickets in the County Championship that promote the bowling of spin at home we will struggle to produce quality spinners. Swann was a "one off" but was undoubdetly helped by the fact that he played at International level against Teams with a proliferation of left handers. This, combined with the fact that he was, in reality, the only recognised Engalnd spinner, allowed him to learn and enhance his craft at International level as opposed to in the County Championship .
Some good players coming through but was unfair to try them in the furnace of a one sided Ashes series. Am excited by Stokes' performances. And Cook has many years ahead still. He will be a legend in the game. Broad was also decent with bat and ball but not supported enough in the bowling attack. And something is not right behind the scenes for our team to have performed so consistently badly. I am sure it will get weeded out.
We can only go up from rock bottom.
At this point I wish to invoke my dual nationality (at least until Englands second series in the Summer) - Bhangria army!!!!!
You really wonder at the squad selection, and that goes back to the Oval when they tried Woakes and Kerrigan and dumped them after one game. People like Rankin and Tremlett got on the plane instead, and looked completely at sea. Our batting was poor last summer, Root played one decent innings, Cook wasn't great, but we were helped by English style pitches, made for our bowlers.
The problem for England, and it's not a new one, is that when batting they manage to be both slow AND reckless. They get stuck playing defensively, then play stupid attacking shot and get out.
I do wonder at the regimented, scientific style of coaching and team management, the Aussies were transformed by being in Lehmann, who's much more of a man manager and bloke.
Batting-wise England lacked quality at the top of the order and Cook hasn't been able to cope with the pressure of skippering and opening. He needed a decent partner to take the pressure of him a bit but Carberry has been out of his depth against excellent bowling. There isn't an easy answer to that one as there don't appear to be many candidates for opening bat. Carberry's not a bad player and may grow into the job but time isn't on his side. On purely cricketing grounds I would have preferred Robson because he's got buckets of bottle but he would be just another foreigner in a team of foreigners. Trott's leg-side bias was sussed out a while ago by Australia and he's had no answer. Pieterson has lost interest now that it's not going his way and could be a disruptive influence. Bell is a fine player but has some technical issues outside off stump which have been ruthlessly exploited by good bowlers. Root is promising but ended up being relied on too much because the main men weren't up to it. Prior is a fighter but was out of form with the bat. I think he'll be back. Stokes has played with freedom, hitting the ball cleanly and is the only England player that would make it into the Joint XI for the series. Bairstow seems scared when he bats and looks way short of Test level.
Bowling wise England have looked thin. Anderson has been well below par but not a complete disaster in terms of economy and Broad has been ok. Both have tended to bowl a bit short probably because they haven't been able to swing the ball as much as Harris. Tremlett was a mistake and was picked on previous performances. I watched him a couple of times in the summer and he looked partially fit and ordinary. Not playing Finn has been a mistake although I accept he's not as accurate as he needs to be. I don't accept "he hasn't been bowling well in the nets" as a reason for not picking him as nets can be very misleading. Stokes has promise with the ball but at the moment is loose against top batsman. He may tighten up in the way that Flintoff did and has already shown an ability to take wickets. Swann has been used to being treated with respect but the Australians used their feet from ball one against him and he/Cook allowed singles to be picked off at will, which lead to greater destruction later in the innings. On the other hand England have allowed Lyon to bowl at them with men around the bat for long periods. Lots of people have under-estimated Lyon but he's been a massive improvement on Hauritz from the moment he got in the team. I expect him to continue bowling well for Australia.
England were carrying a couple of inexperienced players in their top order on a tough tour. They needed their experienced players to step up regularly but almost to a man those experienced players have been found wanting. Cook is the man that provides the platform for the others to flourish. He's struggled and it's exposed the others.
In terms of captaincy, Cook has struggled. He's a good man and a fine player but he doesn't look the part to me as a captain. I'm not saying he should lose the job (because there don't seem to be too many viable alternatives) but he may have to if England are to get the best out of him as a batsman.
If I were picking an England team to play a 6th Test.....
1. Cook
2. Robson
3. Root
4. Bell
5. Ballance
6. Prior
7. Stokes
8. Broad
9. Tredwell
10. Anderson
11. Finn