Is he the one who told you off for throwing bottles at female bar staff Nathan?
No, I did no such thing, basically he was the one who told the other coppers to chuck us out the pub for having a conversation with some others and for doing a bit of singing. He was the one who ordered the Section 27 as well I do believe. He doesn't listen to anyone and just sticks to his word.
Echo what others have said - many thanks to Henry and his fellow attendees for their time & energy on this issue. It's much appreciated by those of us who were "victims" of the police that afternoon.
Good to hear that the lines of communication appear to still be open and remind everyone that Steve Bradshaw stated at the recent FF meeting that our Club has a very good relationship with our local police. Long may it continue.
Similar thread on www.cpfc.org about the meeting under general palace talk.
If the police tell the chairmen only give 1,000 tickets then our owners will bend over and take it up the Harris. 1k will be all you get. No palace fan wants to see you with only 1k.
I warned everyone on here about the shocking police tactics.
This officer dorans who is our "intelligence" officer. He is detested by most fans. Apparently he used to work at the valley before given the boot? Does anyone know the full story?
I'm still waiting for reply on AFKA's post that Dorans is banned from the Valley, how? and by whom?
When we played them in 2009 there was a bit of an issue with the Palace fans and stewards. He had a q+a with the Palace fans in the weeks that followed, and that is what he told them. Couple of quotes from people there:
""He also mentioned that he was officially banned from the Valley as due to his questioning of the stewards behaviour and requests for information he was told he would not be admitted."
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"I was at the meeting with Mike Dorans in the Legion Club. Fair play to him for showing up, however I have to say I wasn't overly impressed with some of his answers. I was one of the fans ejected from the Valley and also followed it up through numerous channels finally ending up with correspondence to the Ombudsman where all the complaints now lie. Mr Dorans was at pains to point out that by pushing for some sort of justice for us he was at risk of disciplinary action being taken against him by his seniors.......strange that as he was only 'doing hid job' as it were. Similarly it seems he kicked up a stink at the debrief following the game which led to him no longer being welcome at the Valley."
Cheers, still don't understand that as he is a serving police officer and would be on duty, how does the club have the right to ban him from the premises, surely his rights as an officer would outweigh any club rights. The chairman of my local legion couldn't ban any police from the premises carrying out their duties.
The meeting has been well summed up by Henry and Chilham, so thanks to them.
The swift response of CS Wood to Henry is promising, and Jason Evans seemed very open to further debate. One of the frustrating things for me in the meeting was that the blanket response to any alternative suggestions was "we had intelligence which led us to believe that there would have been serious public disorder if we had managed it differently". This seemed to centre on the "Penge 200". I would be interested to get Jason Evans's view on how realistic this was.
My belief is that they suspected letting away fans out and letting them go there own way, the possibility was that the "risk" 200 would have gone a separate way looking for the palace risk fans, therefore taking police resources away from the route to the station and the surrounding areas.
Interesting insight HI, thanks for that. No surprises that the OB felt it was a success, their main objective would have been to have prevented any Palace and Charlton confrontations, end of. The fact that local residents were put out, including having personal damage to their property - and - that they managed our fans in such a bad unprofessional way is not of any interest to them.
In the 80's there was serious disorder and as much as Police removed trouble makers from being in the vicinity and gradually improved the environment at matches, it has never fully been removed. All they did was move the problem further and further from the grounds, on top of which, modern society has also moved on. What this shows you though is that if you don't control a situation properly and / or you treat all supporters with such inconsideration (they never made any announcement, even the front line OB did not know what was happening, their words), that you will bring out anger from even the most law abiding person and create the kind of scenes that happened earlier this month.
Another point to consider ; if holding fans within the stadium was not a viable proposition, makes me wonder how it is fit to house supporters at all ? Also if Charlton fans made £8k worth of damage I am very surprised, so that just sounds a poor / uneducated response to me...
Well maybe, but my point was slightly different. Not to let fans go their own way. Instead, if the police really believed that serious violence would occur if fans were allowed to follow a different route, then to make them go to Norwood Junction via Sangley Rd but AT THEIR OWN PACE. It was the crushing together of 3000 people down that road which provoked the damage and confrontation.
Well maybe, but my point was slightly different. Not to let fans go their own way. Instead, if the police really believed that serious violence would occur if fans were allowed to follow a different route, then to make them go to Norwood Junction via Sangley Rd but AT THEIR OWN PACE. It was the crushing together of 3000 people down that road which provoked the damage and confrontation.
Exactly Pico ! The people at the front, of which i was one of, were not forcing our way. The pushing came from behind, probably some knowing that it was blocked up front. When this happened the Police's reaction was to unleash aggravated alsatians and baton wielding riot OB, most of whom seemed to revel in the addrenalin of it all
Another point to consider ; if holding fans within the stadium was not a viable proposition, makes me wonder how it is fit to house supporters at all ? Also if Charlton fans made £8k worth of damage I am very surprised, so that just sounds a poor / uneducated response to me...
and how was holding them in small residential street any better! madness
Brendan I apologise in advance if you did genuinely happen to stumble into the group in search of a beer in Penge.
But I mean fairs fair here. The ob had every right to turn up on mass. Everyone there knew full well what was going on. Surely you must have smelt a rat from the conversations etc!
What I will say is that surely the behaviour of the support during the game was more the reason why the decision was made to escort the away end?
Which to be fair had very little to do with the 'Penge 200' as everyone there has seen it all before with regards to silly behaviour in a football ground. Always tends to come back and bite you on the arse. Expect a lot more pictures in the local press at some point.
Just before half time a fair few people were beering on the concourse. One of the ob who'd been with the said group said he was on his way to a meeting to discuss post match plans.
I'd imagine then the events of the first half played a big factor in deciding to take everyone out together.
That said I suppose only they know when the decision was made. Also after the police were completely overrun on the Friday night in September this time round was always going to be a complete overkill.
Made well before that mate they had the fence divider there for putting up as people were going in . This was done for Brighton and millwall so your wrong
Brendan I apologise in advance if you did genuinely happen to stumble into the group in search of a beer in Penge.
But I mean fairs fair here. The ob had every right to turn up on mass. Everyone there knew full well what was going on. Surely you must have smelt a rat from the conversations etc!
No need to apologise fella. I knew most of the lads in there so knew exactly what it was about. The OB did a good sensible job before the game.
My issue is that they didn't have a clue after the game, and because if this are blaming the Penge 200. It's like they are running out if excuses and using the high risk group to justify it.
Fair play Brendan, good chance we probably know each other then!
Think you're spot on with regards to blaming the group about the other stuff brought up. Think the bulk have grown out of the silliness inside ground on CCTV cameras!
There is no need to remind any true football fan of the sensitivities of safety concerns and policing at football matches. At the same time we should not sensationalise the problem, more take this opportunity to address the recent problems and move forward.
Comments
"no. His name is Taff"
Good to hear that the lines of communication appear to still be open and remind everyone that Steve Bradshaw stated at the recent FF meeting that our Club has a very good relationship with our local police. Long may it continue.
I was in Penge with this so called "High Risk" group and I know we only drank there as all of the pubs within the vicinity of the ground were closed.
They appear to be making us scapegoats for their inability to run the operation properly in my opinion.
Cheers, still don't understand that as he is a serving police officer and would be on duty, how does the club have the right to ban him from the premises, surely his rights as an officer would outweigh any club rights. The chairman of my local legion couldn't ban any police from the premises carrying out their duties.
In the 80's there was serious disorder and as much as Police removed trouble makers from being in the vicinity and gradually improved the environment at matches, it has never fully been removed. All they did was move the problem further and further from the grounds, on top of which, modern society has also moved on. What this shows you though is that if you don't control a situation properly and / or you treat all supporters with such inconsideration (they never made any announcement, even the front line OB did not know what was happening, their words), that you will bring out anger from even the most law abiding person and create the kind of scenes that happened earlier this month.
Another point to consider ; if holding fans within the stadium was not a viable proposition, makes me wonder how it is fit to house supporters at all ? Also if Charlton fans made £8k worth of damage I am very surprised, so that just sounds a poor / uneducated response to me...
and how was holding them in small residential street any better! madness
But I mean fairs fair here. The ob had every right to turn up on mass. Everyone there knew full well what was going on. Surely you must have smelt a rat from the conversations etc!
Which to be fair had very little to do with the 'Penge 200' as everyone there has seen it all before with regards to silly behaviour in a football ground. Always tends to come back and bite you on the arse. Expect a lot more pictures in the local press at some point.
I'd imagine then the events of the first half played a big factor in deciding to take everyone out together.
That said I suppose only they know when the decision was made. Also after the police were completely overrun on the Friday night in September this time round was always going to be a complete overkill.
My issue is that they didn't have a clue after the game, and because if this are blaming the Penge 200. It's like they are running out if excuses and using the high risk group to justify it.
Think you're spot on with regards to blaming the group about the other stuff brought up. Think the bulk have grown out of the silliness inside ground on CCTV cameras!
Had plenty of tip offs etc over the years. Especially when you compare to Dorans etc you realise how lucky we've had it.
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