I respect that and it has some merit. Where I differ is that CP hasn't been given the chance to improve a League One squad and too many of the team are of that standard.
I respect that and it has some merit. Where I differ is that CP hasn't been given the chance to improve a League One squad and too many of the team are of that standard.
I think you'll find he has had plenty of opportunities to improve the squad- albeit with loans mainly - but a lot of money has been wasted. Think of who we could have bought instead of loaning so many - this is down to the manager
I respect that and it has some merit. Where I differ is that CP hasn't been given the chance to improve a League One squad and too many of the team are of that standard.
I think you'll find he has had plenty of opportunities to improve the squad- albeit with loans mainly - but a lot of money has been wasted. Think of who we could have bought instead of loaning so many - this is down to the manager
I respect that and it has some merit. Where I differ is that CP hasn't been given the chance to improve a League One squad and too many of the team are of that standard.
I think you'll find he has had plenty of opportunities to improve the squad- albeit with loans mainly - but a lot of money has been wasted. Think of who we could have bought instead of loaning so many - this is down to the manager
Could you please enlighten me as to what the 'plenty of opportunities' actually were. You seem very sure that you are right so i think it would be helpful if you explained why.
and Below League One standard aka Pritchard who is a 4th division player at best!
Like i said above, best thing for Powell to do is resign.
Did you watch Pritchard play last season? Without him in the team we'd have been playing the likes of Green and Hollands. Midfield would have been even slower than it was and we'd have been a lot closer to the relegation zone .
As Large said he's not had the chance to improve the squad as much as we needed to if we were to push on. The loanees came in after it was obvious we would find it difficult in this division. It needed improving after we were promoted in the summer but we managed to get by with the few signings we did bring in. Now it's clear we needed investment - this squad is never going to be much more than one fighting relegation, whoever the manager is.
C'mon if PV hadn't been at the Club then CP wouldn't be our Manager. If the current lot took control now they wouldnt appoint CP. A few more bad results and it wouldn't surprise me if CP went. He hasn't long on his contract and its not as if paying him off will cost the earth. The Board will probably find someone to do the job on less money too so I don't think finance will play a big part. Lets also not kid ourselves that CP has as much backing in the wider Charlton support as he does on here. I know numerous fans, none of whom post on any Internet forum, that are less than happy with CP and wouldn't shed too many tears if CP went.
There are always fans like that Large, and at every club. There were plenty of people slagging off Curbs in the latter years. In fact in at least one case I recognise, they are the same people who are trying to drum up an anti-CP tide now. I'm talking about Colin Sams, aka bexleyboy. I think it's to do with why some people go to football. But I'm not a psychologist, so I'd better leave it there.
Powell - 352 without a decent striker does not work. The formation should fit to the players available. 442 would have been better with players and situation (easy to say with hindsight). 442 with quick wingers, a wound up Sordell and Piggott / Church may have worked. Cousins and Jackson in midfield. Pritchard to start right midfield / with option of Harriots if nothing happening.
Formation should have changed at half time.
Though, it may be that 442 with the second string / youngster / last minute.com default strikers we have at the club would not have worked either.
Owners - leaving the club with threadbare squad with no quality back up for main players and only one proper striker will prove to be a disaster (for their investment, club and fans) that carries a very high risk of relegation. That is the situation whoever the manager is.
Would another decent manager, put themselves into this situation, where there is no money to spend ? I can only see Gus Poyet and he is in legal dispute with Brighton over the termination of his contract. Whoever manages has a threadbare squad that is at high risk of losing every time one of our main players gets injured / suspended. There is no guarantee that any change of manager would prevent relegation.
Our only win came with a 352, against a strong Leicester side who also had 5 in midfield, and was the first time at this level we've dominated a team in midfield.
Millwall came with 5 across the middle, at times it looked like 2 holding and 3 in front but wasn't always that clear. I can't see the result being any different if was had one fewer central midfielder.
For me it was more about Millwall's hunger outstripping ours, and too many of our players off form. The team not using Pigott hardly helped, however tough he was finding it. Of our central midfielders, only Jacko was finding any form and largely defensively.
I find it hard to imagine Powell could have foreseen how gutless his team would have been.
With Kermorgant out I think perhaps we ought to be playing a 4-5-1, with Church up top and Stewart and Harriott on the wings. They will need to get forward to support Church, of course, when we have the ball.
I think we're also seeing just how important Kermorgant is to us .
"We lose Powell, we go down" is a very good phrase to explain our position. He's a really good young manager whose still learning and yes he makes mistakes, but I think everyones forgetting than in his two full seasons we won League 1 with triple figure points and last season finished in the top half of the table with a team barely changed from League 1. Give him time to do his magic and I believe he'll pull us through.
Excellent post. I would still support the guy even if we went down. Do not have rose tinted glasses but have got to look at the limited funds he has to work with.
No one individual is greater than the club - if he is quality then why have we not read of interest from bigger clubs seeking a younger up and coming manager?
Don't think CP is the best manager out there but can hardly see anyone decent rushing to take the job given our resources. If we are still in the shit at Xmas not sure what the board will do.
We needed to get bodies in to the midfield. Two prospects from Chelsea have gone out on loan this week. We should've tried getting both of them on Season Loans. I know people do not like loans but we have basically a whole squad on loan at the moment for a season (contracts expire).
I want SCP to stay and think he is a good manager.
Jack Charlton once said 3 years was the ideal length of a managerial reign although he himself exceeded this duration at Newcastle.
My view is that sometimes that a change can work well for both parties when coaches and managers become stale.Although nearly at three years,I don't think SCP is at this stage yet. Effectively I would argue the first 18 months of his reign although the same club he was in a different job ie the objective was to get us out of League One.
Since returning to the Championship his objective is stability.Last season he overachieved,this season he needs to once more lead us to a safe mid table position.
My fear are the next three games and what might happen if we lose all of them,all of Burnley ,Forest and Blackpool are flying high and will be difficult tests for us .I think we need to get at least five points from this run of games to see us mid table.If we do badly in this run of games then I can see our owners ( although I would not agree with it ) taking action.
IF they did do this I suspect Jiminez might push Gus Poyet and I have noticed that Tony Pulis has attended a game at the Valley this season.
We needed to get bodies in to the midfield. Two prospects from Chelsea have gone out on loan this week. We should've tried getting both of them on Season Loans. I know people do not like loans but we have basically a whole squad on loan at the moment for a season (contracts expire).
I hadn't viewed it that way but you make a very valuable point. God doesn't play dice apparently but it looks as though Slater and or Jimenez do. One way or another,the gambling needs to stop and they need to make settling the players contracts a high priority.
Dyer to be sent on a juggling course to keep people entertained on the touchline.
That was brilliant. I was about to post in fury at the 'Dyer doesn't wave his arms' post, I cannot believe the utter stupidity of some of this backlash. But that made me smile.
We needed to get bodies in to the midfield. Two prospects from Chelsea have gone out on loan this week. We should've tried getting both of them on Season Loans. I know people do not like loans but we have basically a whole squad on loan at the moment for a season (contracts expire).
I hadn't viewed it that way but you make a very valuable point. God doesn't play dice apparently but it looks as though Slater and or Jimenez do. One way or another,the gambling needs to stop and they need to make settling the players contracts a high priority.
And remember Powell blamed the slump at the end of the 2010/11 season on players being out of contract and not caring. He's in the same situation now.
I think the manager needs some help - Dyer offers nothing as a number 2 - Paul Hart should be around on match days - I don't see it as a weakness to receive experience!
How can you possibly know that Dyer doesn't offer anything ? Ridiculous comment from a fan without a clue.
Big Andy makes a valid comment as mentoring is an extremely important part of a learning process
Ah now you are getting the hang of things. Now if I am not mistaken the current owners came in and took a look and (rightly or wrongly) dispensed with Parky's services.
Now they didn't have a pre - determined replacement albeit some say that Eddie Howe was always their número uno target, but they had decided that they didn't want parky to be at the helm of their new 'project'.
Business is about people and relationships and in my humble opinion I don't see CP surviving a change of ownership as the style of play is hardly 'sexy football' and new owners appear to have this high on their agendas even when it seldom achieves overriding objectives that have been set.
Right off to bed for me as an early start in the morning!
Glad I'm starting to get the hang of things. Perhaps with your business experience to guide me, I'll finally get there.
Nevertheless I might humbly suggest that you are making comments which have already been dealt with in another thread just a few weeks ago. You assert that Jiminez/Slater are an example of "bringing in their own man". However that is bending the truth. To sum up:
- People thought and claimed they were bringing their own man, Dennis Wise. This turned out to be bollocks - They took a look at Parky. Not a long one, I agree but I was there that night against Swindon, and was not surprised the axe fell. - They then went out on the open market, to see what was available. Eddie Howe wasn't 'their man". He turned them down - CP wasn't their man either according to Large, and I think Large is correct. - On a results basis he wasn't that successful in the first part of his reign. People like Bexleyboy were already calling for his head - however they took no notice, and instead gave him a decent budget - and crucially - early in the summer. Result: 101 points - last summer, for whatever reason they failed to give him that kind of budget, and certainly not in time. Fuller only joined after the season had started. CP was ready to sell Stephens but Jiminez tried to play hardball and failed (allegedly). Nevertheless despite inadequate resource planning (a term I'm sure you'll recognise) CP delivered a result which exceeded most reasonable people's best expectations.
If you are Sheikh Mansour or a Russian economic criminal you can bring in 'your own man' because money is no object and the world is your oyster. We are not going to be bought by someone like that. Any change will be based on what's available at the time. If it was me having to make that decision today, the choices would be appear to be people such as Pulis, Poyet or di Canio. Personally I wouldn't want any of them over CP, and they will certainly cost a lot more than CP, which is the other factor not enough people think about.
Had the loss on Saturday been against any other bog standard Championship club, then I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be all this fuss about the manager. For crying out loud, it was only 9 days ago people were beaming on here about the fact that we had taken 3 points of Leicester and 1 off Watford, and rightly so!
Truth is, Powell has helped players like Stephens and Wiggins push on. Before coming to the club they had spent their careers in Leagues One and Two. Since coming here they have become Championship regulars in a side that finished in the top half last season. For every below average game Wiggins has had, he's had at least 3-4 others that are of a good quality during his time here.
Hasn't got mine. He hasn't a clue how to use the players we've got. And he's coaching has failed to push on players like Stephens and wiggins who showed so much promise but haven't really pushed on. His decision making regarding subs is terrible to the point where we the fans had to let him know to change it. Yesterday was his last chance for me an he blew it, wouldn't be sad to see him go.
I like Powell, as a man, not as a manager.
And this comes from someone who was supposed to be trying to lift the support through hell and high water with the 'Red Division'.
Even if we got relegated I would still not sack Powell!! He has had no support finacially and I dont think anyone else could do a better job!
Taking blind loyalty to the extreme here. I can't agree that nobody could do a better job but would agree that many would do far worse. He has to work with the resources available and not moan about it - other managers have a limited budget.
I like it that @ValleyGary is the voice of wankers. He has a picture and everything.
Love going on there as it makes me feel better about my life and who I am as a person. That probably means I need taking down a peg or two. Ha!
That's how I feel about it. When life is bad I look on there and realise it could always be worse, a hell of a lot worse. But then I guess I need taking down a peg or two.
Also, I love the way they are trying to make something out of ValleyGary (apparently) not going to games.
Remind you of anyone?
haha i just seen that thread.
getting all personal over the internet. ive never been called a ladyboy before!
Getting angry over Charlton Athletic...over the internet. Does it get cooler than that?
Some of the stick towards Fanny, who is a woman, is way over the line though.
I like it that @ValleyGary is the voice of wankers. He has a picture and everything.
Love going on there as it makes me feel better about my life and who I am as a person. That probably means I need taking down a peg or two. Ha!
That's how I feel about it. When life is bad I look on there and realise it could always be worse, a hell of a lot worse. But then I guess I need taking down a peg or two.
Also, I love the way they are trying to make something out of ValleyGary (apparently) not going to games.
Remind you of anyone?
haha i just seen that thread.
getting all personal over the internet. ive never been called a ladyboy before!
Getting angry over Charlton Athletic...over the internet. Does it get cooler than that?
Some of the stick towards Fanny, who is a woman, is way over the line though.
Yep, it's shameful and cowardly, Gary. But their numbers are tiny.
Makes me laugh when I see all of these people that say they want to judge Powell on results (and therefore sack him). We're 7 games in to what was always going to be a really difficult season, especially given that we started the season with barely a player tied to the club beyond the end of it. In the past 4 games we have beaten Leicester, drawn away at Watford and lost to Millwall and Huddersfield. In the past two seasons we have exceeded expectations and finished 9th in our first season in the Championship and won the League One title with over 100 points.
And yet some people's argument for sacking Powell is results based? Seriously?
We lost to Millwall, it was a bad day at the office (it'd have been very much against history if it went any other way) and we're looking for a scapegoat or two (Pritchard and Powell seem to be favourites. Pritchard being another nonsensical argument where people bemoan the lack of effort and then single out Pritchard. He had a stinker on Saturday but if he's short on anything then it certainly isn't effort). They're an honest group of players and Powell is a good young manager. They let us down on Saturday but judging on results and what they've achieved over the last two years then you'd have to be pretty reactionary to say that we've been in any way let down over the course of Powell's tenure.
Personally, I think that for a Championship squad we're pretty light on talent, the reason for that though is almost certainly financial and I'm pretty sure we can't lay the blame for that at either the players' or Powell's door. (I also think that the players deserve much better than the 'primadonna' tag, they're not Premier League millionaires and rarely could we honestly question their effort or commitment.)
It's so easy to get caught up in the kind of tabloid hyperbole and reactionism that we're subjected to every day but it's bullshit and I used to like to think that as Charlton fans we had a bit more about us than that. Sadly, based on what I hear at the ground and read on the internet, it's much more difficult to believe that's true these days.
I also would keep Chris, even unto relegation. My opinion is comprised of emotion, experience and logic, and I am sure others will disagree. Powell is my man, and I feel lucky that we have him as our manager.
Hasn't got mine. He hasn't a clue how to use the players we've got. And he's coaching has failed to push on players like Stephens and wiggins who showed so much promise but haven't really pushed on. His decision making regarding subs is terrible to the point where we the fans had to let him know to change it. Yesterday was his last chance for me an he blew it, wouldn't be sad to see him go.
I like Powell, as a man, not as a manager.
Who showed so much promise in League One and haven't pushed on, apart from them being regular Championship players, playing against a much higher standard of opposition.
To be frank, I can't understand how people can miss that he's being asked to play against Championship teams with essentially the same squad of players he had in League One.
Give him some backing in the transfer market and you'll see something different. When we backed him in League One he broke 13 records on the way to the title. How many Charlton managers have ever won a league?
He's not perfect, but all this crap just reminds me of how Curbs had gone as far as he could, and Mervyn Day was crap, and shouldn't we have a director of football, not that Mills chap, he was to blame for everything, blah blah blah. And how did that all turn out again?
Makes me laugh when I see all of these people that say they want to judge Powell on results (and therefore sack him). We're 7 games in to what was always going to be a really difficult season, especially given that we started the season with barely a player tied to the club beyond the end of it. In the past 4 games we have beaten Leicester, drawn away at Watford and lost to Millwall and Huddersfield. In the past two seasons we have exceeded expectations and finished 9th in our first season in the Championship and won the League One title with over 100 points.
And yet some people's argument for sacking Powell is results based? Seriously?
We lost to Millwall, it was a bad day at the office (it'd have been very much against history if it went any other way) and we're looking for a scapegoat or two (Pritchard and Powell seem to be favourites. Pritchard being another nonsensical argument where people bemoan the lack of effort and then single out Pritchard. He had a stinker on Saturday but if he's short on anything then it certainly isn't effort). They're an honest group of players and Powell is a good young manager. They let us down on Saturday but judging on results and what they've achieved over the last two years then you'd have to be pretty reactionary to say that we've been in any way let down over the course of Powell's tenure.
Personally, I think that for a Championship squad we're pretty light on talent, the reason for that though is almost certainly financial and I'm pretty sure we can't lay the blame for that at either the players' or Powell's door. (I also think that the players deserve much better than the 'primadonna' tag, they're not Premier League millionaires and rarely could we honestly question their effort or commitment.)
It's so easy to get caught up in the kind of tabloid hyperbole and reactionism that we're subjected to every day but it's bullshit and I used to like to think that as Charlton fans we had a bit more about us than that. Sadly, based on what I hear at the ground and read on the internet, it's much more difficult to believe that's true these days.
Some of our fans lost touch with reality a long time ago. We have a squad composed largely of journeymen and realistically at present staying up is the best we can hope for.
It's ridiculous to say Powell hasn't developed Wiggins. He started off shaky in League One, CP got him sorted, and he was one of our outstanding title winning players. Talk of a Welsh cap. Last season he got injured and was out early, for a long time. His return coincided with our winning form in the latter part of the season. He hasn't started well this season (in seven games). That's the evidence? Give me strength.
Contract uncertainty might have something to do with it. He's at an age where he needs to know where he stands and what's right for his further development.
Comments
Like i said above, best thing for Powell to do is resign.
As Large said he's not had the chance to improve the squad as much as we needed to if we were to push on. The loanees came in after it was obvious we would find it difficult in this division. It needed improving after we were promoted in the summer but we managed to get by with the few signings we did bring in. Now it's clear we needed investment - this squad is never going to be much more than one fighting relegation, whoever the manager is.
Millwall came with 5 across the middle, at times it looked like 2 holding and 3 in front but wasn't always that clear. I can't see the result being any different if was had one fewer central midfielder.
For me it was more about Millwall's hunger outstripping ours, and too many of our players off form. The team not using Pigott hardly helped, however tough he was finding it. Of our central midfielders, only Jacko was finding any form and largely defensively.
I find it hard to imagine Powell could have foreseen how gutless his team would have been.
With Kermorgant out I think perhaps we ought to be playing a 4-5-1, with Church up top and Stewart and Harriott on the wings. They will need to get forward to support Church, of course, when we have the ball.
I think we're also seeing just how important Kermorgant is to us .
If we are still in the shit at Xmas not sure what the board will do.
Jack Charlton once said 3 years was the ideal length of a managerial reign although he himself exceeded this duration at Newcastle.
My view is that sometimes that a change can work well for both parties when coaches and managers become stale.Although nearly at three years,I don't think SCP is at this stage yet. Effectively I would argue the first 18 months of his reign although the same club he was in a different job ie the objective was to get us out of League One.
Since returning to the Championship his objective is stability.Last season he overachieved,this season he needs to once more lead us to a safe mid table position.
My fear are the next three games and what might happen if we lose all of them,all of Burnley ,Forest and Blackpool are flying high and will be difficult tests for us .I think we need to get at least five points from this run of games to see us mid table.If we do badly in this run of games then I can see our owners ( although I would not agree with it ) taking action.
IF they did do this I suspect Jiminez might push Gus Poyet and I have noticed that Tony Pulis has attended a game at the Valley this season.
Nevertheless I might humbly suggest that you are making comments which have already been dealt with in another thread just a few weeks ago. You assert that Jiminez/Slater are an example of "bringing in their own man". However that is bending the truth. To sum up:
- People thought and claimed they were bringing their own man, Dennis Wise. This turned out to be bollocks
- They took a look at Parky. Not a long one, I agree but I was there that night against Swindon, and was not surprised the axe fell.
- They then went out on the open market, to see what was available. Eddie Howe wasn't 'their man". He turned them down
- CP wasn't their man either according to Large, and I think Large is correct.
- On a results basis he wasn't that successful in the first part of his reign. People like Bexleyboy were already calling for his head
- however they took no notice, and instead gave him a decent budget - and crucially - early in the summer. Result: 101 points
- last summer, for whatever reason they failed to give him that kind of budget, and certainly not in time. Fuller only joined after the season had started. CP was ready to sell Stephens but Jiminez tried to play hardball and failed (allegedly). Nevertheless despite inadequate resource planning (a term I'm sure you'll recognise) CP delivered a result which exceeded most reasonable people's best expectations.
If you are Sheikh Mansour or a Russian economic criminal you can bring in 'your own man' because money is no object and the world is your oyster. We are not going to be bought by someone like that. Any change will be based on what's available at the time. If it was me having to make that decision today, the choices would be appear to be people such as Pulis, Poyet or di Canio. Personally I wouldn't want any of them over CP, and they will certainly cost a lot more than CP, which is the other factor not enough people think about.
Truth is, Powell has helped players like Stephens and Wiggins push on. Before coming to the club they had spent their careers in Leagues One and Two. Since coming here they have become Championship regulars in a side that finished in the top half last season. For every below average game Wiggins has had, he's had at least 3-4 others that are of a good quality during his time here. And this comes from someone who was supposed to be trying to lift the support through hell and high water with the 'Red Division'.
He has to work with the resources available and not moan about it - other managers have a limited budget.
getting all personal over the internet. ive never been called a ladyboy before!
Getting angry over Charlton Athletic...over the internet. Does it get cooler than that?
Some of the stick towards Fanny, who is a woman, is way over the line though.
And yet some people's argument for sacking Powell is results based? Seriously?
We lost to Millwall, it was a bad day at the office (it'd have been very much against history if it went any other way) and we're looking for a scapegoat or two (Pritchard and Powell seem to be favourites. Pritchard being another nonsensical argument where people bemoan the lack of effort and then single out Pritchard. He had a stinker on Saturday but if he's short on anything then it certainly isn't effort). They're an honest group of players and Powell is a good young manager. They let us down on Saturday but judging on results and what they've achieved over the last two years then you'd have to be pretty reactionary to say that we've been in any way let down over the course of Powell's tenure.
Personally, I think that for a Championship squad we're pretty light on talent, the reason for that though is almost certainly financial and I'm pretty sure we can't lay the blame for that at either the players' or Powell's door. (I also think that the players deserve much better than the 'primadonna' tag, they're not Premier League millionaires and rarely could we honestly question their effort or commitment.)
It's so easy to get caught up in the kind of tabloid hyperbole and reactionism that we're subjected to every day but it's bullshit and I used to like to think that as Charlton fans we had a bit more about us than that. Sadly, based on what I hear at the ground and read on the internet, it's much more difficult to believe that's true these days.
To be frank, I can't understand how people can miss that he's being asked to play against Championship teams with essentially the same squad of players he had in League One.
Give him some backing in the transfer market and you'll see something different. When we backed him in League One he broke 13 records on the way to the title. How many Charlton managers have ever won a league?
He's not perfect, but all this crap just reminds me of how Curbs had gone as far as he could, and Mervyn Day was crap, and shouldn't we have a director of football, not that Mills chap, he was to blame for everything, blah blah blah. And how did that all turn out again?
Contract uncertainty might have something to do with it. He's at an age where he needs to know where he stands and what's right for his further development.