Having witnessed that tosh yesterday I fully expect our season to disintegrate from now on. We had no idea whatsoever. Two tough away matches coming up followed by two tough home matches and if we get more than 3 points from those I'll be surprised. This won't compromise my support for the boys and I'll be there cheering them on come what may as I have done for the past 46 years but I just can't see where the next win is coming from. My apologies to the optimists on this site.
Don't apologise VM as John Wayne once said 'it's a sign of weakness'. Two tough away matches followed by two tough home matches.............hmmm so that only leaves 31 matches to save our souls! Trust me VM my extra 10 years of following them longer than you gives me a little more hope or is it blind faith?
Just my personal view,the midfield is simply not good enough putting pressure on the defence of whom we expect the LB and RB to attack as well, give them a break.They are getting no cover from midfield and still we want them to be wingers.Until major surgery is performed on the midfield (I must admit I don't know how to do this with no money) we will struggle around the bottom of the league. One last point I can't remember ever seeing a team with so many players having to play out of position.
We beat Leicester and Blackpool, we are not far off being a decent team. We are struggling with injuries, forcing too many players out of position. Wilson has now found his feet so I'd play him in his preferred right midfield position. Move Solly back to right back and we are stronger down the right flank and midfield. We'll just have to take a chance with Evina at left back. Hollands is off the pace but Razak would make an excellent holding midfielder. Stephens is playing too deep to make make use of his creative and shooting abilities. Creativity is our major problem and Stephens needs to push forward more to create openings. We still have BWP, Hulse and Haynes plus perhaps Waggy or even Clarke to pick from up front. We should have enough in this squad to keep us ticking over until Fuller, Wiggins and Kermo return. We should not be over run with a midfield of Razak, Stephens, Wilson and Kerkar/Jackson, they should all be fine for this level, I just don't get why we should be so week in midfield with the players that we have, they are obviously not being played to their strengths.
good post Queensland.............it is not surprising that our recent failures have come since Solly has been playing out of position. We get 1 injury (our left back) and we then make 3 changes to mnake up for it. Why not play Evina there, put Solly back in his rightful place & go from there. Evina is not THAT bad a player and if he is then get a loanee l/b !!!!!
Hamer Solly Cort Morro Evina Wilson Razak Stephens Jackson Kerkar BWP
Disappointing Saturday but not as gloomy as some are on here. Think this is how we will line up on Tuesday. Hollands very disappointing against Barnsley and we need to leave him out for a bit but he will come back. Wilson for Green looks a no brainer away from home. Big worry will be how Evina handles Diouf who looked Leeds best player by a mile on Friday.
I dont think CP will play Evina at the moment, going on what he said at the ashford meeting. Especially against a premiership quality forward. He doesn't want to expose him just yet. He wants to do it when we have a couple of wins under our belt. Diouf will have him for breakfast.
Hollands has been useless all season and shouldn't be in the squad. The man looks to go sideways or backwards when there is a good passing opportunity. Sums up our sluggish behaviour in midfield. Green was hopeless yesterday, but has looked good sometimes his season so can't be written off. For me, Stephens plays far too deep. In fact the whole midfield plays far too deep.
We have a decent forward in Fuller up there but he rarely gets the ball. The midfield is so sluggish and negative in it's approach that it doesn't result in chances created. Two shots in a game isn't acceptable.
4 goals in 6 home games is a major problem. Whether we like it or not we have to accept the home form is looking dire and we won't get enough points away from home over the whole season.
We look certain to be relegated in my opinion unless major changes occur.
The thing that worries me, is that most other teams I've seen in this division play better attacking football than we do, watching the Palace Millwall highlights from Saturday, the level of passing and moving, dribbling and running was superior to what we're currently producing.
Should have replaced hollands for razak at half time and stuck hulse up front with fuller. Putting jackson on only exentuated their midfield dominance. Should have bought Dawson from Orient - him and the small white haired bloke ran the show and if we don't get somebody like that we are going to struggle - I thought razak was going to do that but he was playing up front most of the time and looked unsure of what he was supposed to be doing. Our defence is still holding up but the standard in this league has surprised me - its better than i remember from 3 years ago but i still think we will have enough to stay up.
As others have said we were outplayed in midfield and looked outnumbered, hence resorting to long balls. Hollands looked poor but really so did Jackson. I loved them last season but we have to face facts this may be a step too far for either of them, they need to show it's not, pretty quickly. As good as last season was I think League 1 was really very poor, hence the reason 4 teams walked it and we won a few key games that won us the 4 horse race. Teams like Norwich and Southampton have moved up quickly and changed a number of what you would of thought were key personnel in the preceeding season. I think CP is still figuring this out. Need Wiggins and Kermorgant back asap. Would like to see Hulse up front, worry that BWP might be in the Hollands/Jackson camp.
Not sure about BWP, he's doing a lot of extra work this season which isn't part of his game,he's never going to be a player who will create his own chances instead he relies on decent service which we're not getting to any of the strikers
Its midfield----eveyone can see it. Depends if CP has the dosh to do anything about it. Ifhe has then its the loyalty to theplayers who did so well last year. We are to slow in movement and thought. If we didnt have a solid central defence --f++k nows how far adrift we would be. Even with 5 in midfield Barnsley dominated us.
I know we couldnt afford NRC wages but someone who can get box to box and galvanize(sic) the midfield----we are plodders with no idea at the moment. Which dosnt help at all the forwards and leaves huge amount of pressure on the defence.
Fairly sure the people saying they weren't sure where our next win was going to come from were saying it after Watford and Derby too. It's a weird league anyway, and our biggest problem at the moment is sometimes we turn up and sometimes we don't. If all the players turn up then we show what we worth, like we did against Birmingham, Ipswich, Leicester and especially Blackpool. I know it's fun but we really shouldn't be writing ourselves off just yet. We need a bit more consistency in the middle but it doesn't help that we seem to be getting a first team injury every game. I'm sure Powell wanted to rest Hollands and give him time to recharge as much as anyone else, but then Jackson got a knock so he came back in. We've got some big players coming back and we'll just have to go game by game at the moment. It's cretainly not over yet
Got to agree Goonerhater the problem is the midfield which was so clearly demonstrated on Saturday by Perkins who totally dominated the game our players were not able to respond. Certainly Hollands is out of form and off the pace but unlike other posters I though Razak showed some decent touches but he needs support. Stephens is too lightweight to be a ball winning central midfielder we need to get more competitive in that area.
Also we have to move Solly back to Right back and maybe consider moving Wilson into midfield where I think he may be effective you can't keep playing your best player out of position it's crazy.
Lastly on Saturday the team looked devoid of any ideas or threat I fear a long season ahead unless CP can get the fundamentals right.
Was an underwhelming performace outside the first 10, our midfield was shite, they had a couple of good players. Thought their 9 up top played very well along with the albino in midfield.
Do question 4-5-1 at home in front of the bumper crowd. Thought we could have been a bit more adventurous as the aim of the day was to excite.
Cant see any of the 6 I brought wanting to come back.
I cant be arsed putting together a reasoned post match post, except to say that it was a bloody shambles!
However, I took my other brother along, (not Charlton). So his neutral summary:-
'The players looked like they'd never played together before' 'Why did Powell take Razak off, he was one of our better players' 'Powell should have put a man on their centre mid (the blonde bloke), he controlled the game.' 'Hollands looked frightened to have the ball' 'Solly looks great' 'Fuller looks good at this level' 'Kerker was ok' 'Charlton's players go to ground when challenged too easy, they need to be stronger' 'Charlton had no fight' 'The atmosphere was terrible' 'The ref had a stinker' and finally 'not even worth a fiver'
To be honest I couldn't argue with any of the above, and that makes me sad.
Problem on saturday was down to Powell and he got it very wrong.
The overall problem with this season is Jackson, and Hollands. Both top players last year but not anywhere close to the standard of this division. And it shows each week. JJ is not captain material, when we are winning he is OK, but when we need to get a goal back he doesn't have what it takes. Would love them to kick on and prove me wrong but i've seen enough over the first however many games to show that they won't.
Wilson did well again, seems more effective in midfield than RB though. Was impressed with the blonde lad in barnsley's midfield held the ball well. & one last positive was Rasak he looked decent you can tell why MCFC have him on their books.
Forgot to say, Wilson looked our best player. Not only me but the others that I brought agreed. Him at RM might give us something when Wiggins is back and Solly in his actual position.
We are desperate for something in midfield. A general or a creative influence but what we have right now is frankly not good enough. Look weak, nervous and incapable of control
firstly...is a condition of football for a fiver that we take a vow of silence absolutely no passion from the crowd or the team? ....the latter is a concern .
i was un impressed with the midfield upwards, we gave the ball away much too cheaply .we ve had 2 weeks to prepare for this game and the lack of cohesion disappointed greatly ...after that performance i am concerned .Fuller didnt get the support from the player in "the hole" in the first half and it just bounced back off us when we played it long second half ...always second to the ball
we didnt look like a team ..reminded me of a pardew side ..sorry to sound negative ..hope its a blip .
I think our problem is that you have to play teams like Barnsley and Palace differently to how you play against Leicester. They show you more respect and will usually crowd the midfield and try to deprive you of space. Defensively, they will play deeper and try to catch you through sharp breaks, incisive passing moves but they won't push sufficient bodies up to be caught out. They also are fit, physical teams, not in the illegal sense, but you have to be strong to beat them to the ball and their fitness deprives you of the time. They are not great teams though and not an example of the gulf in class of the Divisions.
Chrissy had the problem after the first half - as he could see we weren't getting through, and we were not likely to gain the three points set us as we were. He tried to make us a bit more offensively minded, but the 5 in midfield stifled our 4 man midfield like it had stifled our 5 man one so strikers got no service. Hence Green eventually coming off for Pritchard. The way they set up -I could see that the game wouldn't change drastically when we went down to 10 as they were just going to keep doing what they were doing. Where we got a bit desperate, it actually made a positive difference as for the first time in the game- Wilson and Kerkar out wide were taking defenders on rather than passing to people who were tightly marked, and where inevitably, the ball would be lost. Sadly, we could have done with Fuller or at least an extra man as we started to unlock them.
People are critical of Wilson's defending - but at home he is in many ways the perfect right back. A player who we can push up and who is pretty direct. The defending isn't so important - he becomes a part time defender. We have to use this more and get him operating in this way from the off against the physiscal space limiters, when we play them. Having said that - whilst Wilson was our best player on Saturday - his final ball was over hit too many times- he needs to work on that.
It isn't all doom and gloom. You just have to find a way of playing which we haven't done yet. The biggest difference in the two divisions is that you are gifted more goals in league one. I remember lot sof home game where we didn't do too much but invariably pulled a gaol out of the bag. This doesn't work at this level so effectively, if at all. We do have the quality in the side- I am confident of that and we'll give Leeds a tough match on Tuesday.
We lost to a better team on the day, but its that I except that team to be near the bottom which worries me. Were struggling with injuries big time. I don't mind the back 4 can't wait to see Solly back at right back, don't mind Wilson but he has nothing on Solly. Not his fault because Solly is a very good player. The midfield don't know were to start with it. Fuller looked bullied up there and didn't look happy the whole game. Bwp looks very poor. Powell I believe got it right playing 4-5-1 we might of only scored from a set piece, however that looked the same when playing 4-4-2 SCP we trust
I would add that the defence cant be blamed overly much for occassionally hoofing the ball upfield. Passing it to midfield inevitably caused the ball to be back with them a few moments later. When the fullbacks seem your most/only capable attacking players then you have problems!
Whilst the first half performance lacked any cutting edge, we never looked like conceding either - 2 teams with 5 each in midfield simply negated each other.
I can understand the desire to give Fuller more support by bringing on BWP, but CP changing tactics at half time seemed to undo us completely.
That wretched diamond system, which it seems we don't have the players to make work, IMO is a good part of the problem.
No doubt the idea is to give us a fluid 'extra man' situation - but it seems to cause misunderstanding and confusion amongst our players.
Take Danny Green, for example - whatever his shortcomings, he was brought to the club to play a conventional right winger touchline hugging role stretching defences and for his crossing ability. Against Barnsley, he was seen everywhere across the pitch, except in the position he is at his most effective. The player looked lost - he simply didn't seem to know what he was meant to be doing.
Easy to blame Green for a poor performance, but surely he was only trying to play to instructions?
Players need to be played to their individual strengths - all the tactics and systems can't change that basic truth.
Problem on saturday was down to Powell and he got it very wrong.
The overall problem with this season is Jackson, and Hollands. Both top players last year but not anywhere close to the standard of this division. And it shows each week. JJ is not captain material, when we are winning he is OK, but when we need to get a goal back he doesn't have what it takes. Would love them to kick on and prove me wrong but i've seen enough over the first however many games to show that they won't.
Wilson did well again, seems more effective in midfield than RB though. Was impressed with the blonde lad in barnsley's midfield held the ball well. & one last positive was Rasak he looked decent you can tell why MCFC have him on their books.
I agree entirely with this posting, why take off the creative Razak and replace him with the anonymous Jackson. CP has been loyal to those who took us up, now is the time to be ruthless. The defence is fine but the midfielders are just not supporting the front men, Kerker needs to be moved inside and the rest of the midfield should be Stephens,Razak and Wilson, move Solly back to where he is most comfortable and give Evina a chance
A loss to Leeds this evening playing the inevitable 5 across midfield with BWP up front should cause a tactical re think and a bit of soul searching from CP about JJ ,Hollands and BWP himself I would like to think.these three are good players but we need to get another result - a draw would be very acceptable -before we end up in a never ending battle to recover confidence.COYR and especially good luck to these three guys and to CP .
Comments
Good stuff, mate ! I love your positivity - someone who DEF is keeping the faith !
Solly Cort Morro Evina
Wilson Razak Stephens Jackson Kerkar
BWP
Disappointing Saturday but not as gloomy as some are on here. Think this is how we will line up on Tuesday. Hollands very disappointing against Barnsley and we need to leave him out for a bit but he will come back. Wilson for Green looks a no brainer away from home. Big worry will be how Evina handles Diouf who looked Leeds best player by a mile on Friday.
The problems lie in the midfield and attack.
Hollands has been useless all season and shouldn't be in the squad. The man looks to go sideways or backwards when there is a good passing opportunity. Sums up our sluggish behaviour in midfield. Green was hopeless yesterday, but has looked good sometimes his season so can't be written off. For me, Stephens plays far too deep. In fact the whole midfield plays far too deep.
We have a decent forward in Fuller up there but he rarely gets the ball. The midfield is so sluggish and negative in it's approach that it doesn't result in chances created. Two shots in a game isn't acceptable.
4 goals in 6 home games is a major problem. Whether we like it or not we have to accept the home form is looking dire and we won't get enough points away from home over the whole season.
We look certain to be relegated in my opinion unless major changes occur.
We are to slow in movement and thought. If we didnt have a solid central defence --f++k nows how far adrift we would be.
Even with 5 in midfield Barnsley dominated us.
I know we couldnt afford NRC wages but someone who can get box to box and galvanize(sic) the midfield----we are plodders with no idea at the moment. Which dosnt help at all the forwards and leaves huge amount of pressure on the defence.
Also we have to move Solly back to Right back and maybe consider moving Wilson into midfield where I think he may be effective you can't keep playing your best player out of position it's crazy.
Lastly on Saturday the team looked devoid of any ideas or threat I fear a long season ahead unless CP can get the fundamentals right.
Do question 4-5-1 at home in front of the bumper crowd. Thought we could have been a bit more adventurous as the aim of the day was to excite.
Cant see any of the 6 I brought wanting to come back.
However, I took my other brother along, (not Charlton). So his neutral summary:-
'The players looked like they'd never played together before'
'Why did Powell take Razak off, he was one of our better players'
'Powell should have put a man on their centre mid (the blonde bloke), he controlled the game.'
'Hollands looked frightened to have the ball'
'Solly looks great'
'Fuller looks good at this level'
'Kerker was ok'
'Charlton's players go to ground when challenged too easy, they need to be stronger'
'Charlton had no fight'
'The atmosphere was terrible'
'The ref had a stinker'
and finally 'not even worth a fiver'
To be honest I couldn't argue with any of the above, and that makes me sad.
The overall problem with this season is Jackson, and Hollands. Both top players last year but not anywhere close to the standard of this division. And it shows each week.
JJ is not captain material, when we are winning he is OK, but when we need to get a goal back he doesn't have what it takes.
Would love them to kick on and prove me wrong but i've seen enough over the first however many games to show that they won't.
Wilson did well again, seems more effective in midfield than RB though.
Was impressed with the blonde lad in barnsley's midfield held the ball well. & one last positive was Rasak he looked decent you can tell why MCFC have him on their books.
We are desperate for something in midfield. A general or a creative influence but what we have right now is frankly not good enough. Look weak, nervous and incapable of control
i was un impressed with the midfield upwards, we gave the ball away much too cheaply .we ve had 2 weeks to prepare for this game and the lack of cohesion disappointed greatly ...after that performance i am concerned .Fuller didnt get the support from the player in "the hole" in the first half and it just bounced back off us when we played it long second half ...always second to the ball
we didnt look like a team ..reminded me of a pardew side ..sorry to sound negative ..hope its a blip .
Chrissy had the problem after the first half - as he could see we weren't getting through, and we were not likely to gain the three points set us as we were. He tried to make us a bit more offensively minded, but the 5 in midfield stifled our 4 man midfield like it had stifled our 5 man one so strikers got no service. Hence Green eventually coming off for Pritchard. The way they set up -I could see that the game wouldn't change drastically when we went down to 10 as they were just going to keep doing what they were doing. Where we got a bit desperate, it actually made a positive difference as for the first time in the game- Wilson and Kerkar out wide were taking defenders on rather than passing to people who were tightly marked, and where inevitably, the ball would be lost. Sadly, we could have done with Fuller or at least an extra man as we started to unlock them.
People are critical of Wilson's defending - but at home he is in many ways the perfect right back. A player who we can push up and who is pretty direct. The defending isn't so important - he becomes a part time defender. We have to use this more and get him operating in this way from the off against the physiscal space limiters, when we play them. Having said that - whilst Wilson was our best player on Saturday - his final ball was over hit too many times- he needs to work on that.
It isn't all doom and gloom. You just have to find a way of playing which we haven't done yet. The biggest difference in the two divisions is that you are gifted more goals in league one. I remember lot sof home game where we didn't do too much but invariably pulled a gaol out of the bag. This doesn't work at this level so effectively, if at all. We do have the quality in the side- I am confident of that and we'll give Leeds a tough match on Tuesday.
Powell I believe got it right playing 4-5-1 we might of only scored from a set piece, however that looked the same when playing 4-4-2
SCP we trust
Well said.
I can understand the desire to give Fuller more support by bringing on BWP, but CP changing tactics at half time seemed to undo us completely.
That wretched diamond system, which it seems we don't have the players to make work, IMO is a good part of the problem.
No doubt the idea is to give us a fluid 'extra man' situation - but it seems to cause misunderstanding and confusion amongst our players.
Take Danny Green, for example - whatever his shortcomings, he was brought to the club to play a conventional right winger touchline hugging role stretching defences and for his crossing ability. Against Barnsley, he was seen everywhere across the pitch, except in the position he is at his most effective. The player looked lost - he simply didn't seem to know what he was meant to be doing.
Easy to blame Green for a poor performance, but surely he was only trying to play to instructions?
Players need to be played to their individual strengths - all the tactics and systems can't change that basic truth.