what worries me is powells tatics everyone could see after 20 mins 1 man up front wasnt working.with barnsley having 2 or 3 of their normal defenders out i thought powell was gona go 4 it from the start.why bring pritchard on when we are losing the game when hulse is sitting there
"4-5-1 at home too negative" - that's total bulls**t. Please, please stop it.
Did 4-4-2 help against Palace? No. Did it help against Watford? No.
It doesn't have to be a negative tactic. The fact that our midfield was totally outplayed today with three in the middle suggests that if we had a 4-4-2 it could have been a lot worse.
Frighteningly bad.Stephens and Holland look out of there depth.Can someone tell Green he can get within six feet of the byeline if he wants. Iget nearer and I am in the upper north.Oh yes,he did unfortunately wrong byeline.Wilson took up more advanced positions in the last ten mins then he has in the whole of the two last home games.
"4-5-1 at home too negative" - that's total bulls**t. Please, please stop it.
Did 4-4-2 help against Palace? No. Did it help against Watford? No.
It doesn't have to be a negative tactic. The fact that our midfield was totally outplayed today with three in the middle suggests that if we had a 4-4-2 it could have been a lot worse.
Agree, with the players we have the negative tactic is 4-4-2. It forces us to sit back as we're overrun in midfield.
First game of the season. I was surprised how poor the standard was from both teams. We were slightly worse. Fairly sure the ball didn't cross the line in that scramble. Looked like a penalty. Solly, Wilson and Fuller looked quite good.
Last season one of our main strengths was having Wiggins and Solly overlapping down both wings which we've only had this season for 4 games.
Yesterday was a poor performance but in 4-5-1 we actually looked fairly solid and Barnsley for all their possession were quite easy to defend against. It's going to be a long season and most of our points will come away from home imo as we don't have enough to open teams up at home
Very worrying. We were outclassed by a team that is likely to have no more ambition than survival. I don't understand a team selection that has only one striker at home, not do I understand taking off Razak who looked a real find and replacing him with Jackson, who barely had a kick all afternoon.Most of our threats came from Wilson and on that showing only Hamer,Morrison, Wilson, Solly and Stephens really look Champuionship class. This division is much better than I expected and some of our good players from last season are, I am afraid not good enough. It seems to me that it will be a case of grinding out enough results to keep us above the bottom three and getting in urgent reinforcements in January.Perhaps our best chances are away from home as there is just not enough skill in the team to get the chances at home.
We are a better team than Huddersfield. They are 3rd. It is still early days.
Can't believe some fans are still so deluded; It's seriously embarrassing. We are a league 1 team with a couple of additions, with inexperienced players and management. This year is about survival not promotion. wake up and the season will be a lot easier to deal with.
The concern being that if we do not pick up points at home then survival won't happen. Barnsley will be there at the bottom of the table shake out at the end of the season we have to pick up points against the likes of them.
It's easy to underestimate the likes of Barnsley, but remember they've been at this level for 6 years now. They also signed Mido in the summer, which suggests a bit of cash too.
4-5-1 can be an attacking option if you have central midfielders who break quickly and can quickly get into the box to support the lone striker. Russell to an extent did this when he played last season, thinking back the likes of Bowyer and Pardew could also do this for us. Unfortunately neither Jackson, Holland nor Stephens seem to have the engine to do this, Jackson is too slow, Holland seems to tire (and is slow), while Stephens prefers to sit deep playing the killer through ball.
Those saying Wilson can't defend obviously weren't at Blackpool where he kept ince quiet all second half. He was our best player yesterday and think he will strike up a great partnership in front of solly. That said it was a blatant dive. Was right in front of it and he had a wry grin on his face when booked.
Green was tucked in far too much all game leaving Wilson far too exposed.
The reality is in this league you can't carry players, there was a number of games last season we was off especially in midfield but we solid at the back nicked a goal and won 1-0, we can't expect too do that week in week out at this level. 4-5-1 is as negative a formation as you make it, if you have fluid wingers who interchange, support the forward and getting into areas which are dragging defenders out of positions and of the ball getting in the box then fine, Green are Kerkar for me are touchline wingers, there strength is in putting the ball in the box from wide areas, fine, if your going too do that then they need too have supporting midfielders getting in the box as a target this was summed up in the first half when Kerkar supplied a superb ball between defence and goalkeeper and there wasn't a man within 10 yards of it. Fuller cut a frustrated figure upfront and I think it was Stephens that got an earful about the lack of support,
Let's be fair no-ones hiding out there, you can't fault the effort the issue is a lack of quality on the ball, if Powell shares the same view as me that we aren't good enough to play a 4 man midfield with the current players as his disposal then we need to spend substantial on the training ground working on more fluid movement, quick offensive more retention and some desire to get in the box and commit to getting on the end of things.
Having witnessed that tosh yesterday I fully expect our season to disintegrate from now on. We had no idea whatsoever. Two tough away matches coming up followed by two tough home matches and if we get more than 3 points from those I'll be surprised. This won't compromise my support for the boys and I'll be there cheering them on come what may as I have done for the past 46 years but I just can't see where the next win is coming from. My apologies to the optimists on this site.
The majority of the players worked so hard to get into this league I dont expect them to give it all up lightly so with this in mind im expecting a decent result at both Leeds and Wolves lets see if Im wrong!
Do you all think the players are doing what they want , they are told where to play and what to do , the manager problem can't expect to bring in players and all gel especially old players that no one else wants. The city boy is prob earning what the rest of the team is being paid , his fist shot in the first 10 seconds sumed him up . Should have kept the same team together that had worked hard to get there. I could see unrest in the team yesterday .bwp looked pissed as did green, Jackson, Hollands , Stephens is playing well under par all these players are passing ball players . The long ball to front men is not working at this level.green hardly got involved second half because no one can keep the ball long enough to pass wide , they played to our left side because they could handle kerker who ran into nowhere had too many touches and then lost possession. Charlton can't play the diamond formation with the current squad so play what you know fast tempo with wingers and box to box midfielders that we have and what got us to this league.
Very Curbs like in that CP put Razak on Perkins 1st half which suceeded in stopping perkins dominating as he did later on. Worrying about the oppo rather than playing to our strenghts is Classic Curbs.
Since our strength is defending, we were playing to our strengths. Until the second half...
you won't win anything by defending - you got to score goals to win games.
Apart from the League 1 title last season.
That was last year, and if I recall, we scored more goals than our opponants. This season we aren't scoring, which usually means you lose games. As I have said before, and I will say again, clean sheets are useless without scoring at the other end. You can go a whole season without letting a goal in, but if you don't score either then all you will end up with is 46 0-0 draws, and 46 points means relegation - therefore scoring goals is more important than letting them in and also why goalcroers cost more than defenders !!
Going back to yesterday - I couldn't care less if we played 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4,4,1,1 a diamond formation, a xmas tree formation or a bl***y red arrows formation.............just get the team to shoot more often and to get more players in the box. As an earlier poster said, Kerkar put in a couple of decent crosses but there was only Fuller in the box to take advantage - where were the others ??? To my mind Hollands & Stephens are too simaliar and dont get forward enough. Also, for all the midfielders on the pitch yesterday we don't have a ball carrying one, ala Parker, Bowyer, Jensen or Reid (Andy, not Kyle) - there is one playing for the reserves - Ruben Bover, and I would play him instead.
Just my personal view,the midfield is simply not good enough putting pressure on the defence of whom we expect the LB and RB to attack as well, give them a break.They are getting no cover from midfield and still we want them to be wingers.Until major surgery is performed on the midfield (I must admit I don't know how to do this with no money) we will struggle around the bottom of the league. One last point I can't remember ever seeing a team with so many players having to play out of position.
To me, what summed up the game happened outside in the shop by the level crossing after the game.
While waiting in line to be served, I was behind a family with a young boy about 6. His dad asked him if he enjoyed the game, and his reply was "it was ok, but next time we play Barnsley, I think I'll support them instead of Charlton"
I think it summed out how we seem to do when we have these cheap family games. We seem to get them in the ground, then lose them on the field of play......only at Charlton!
Oh dear we are all doomed! Or are we? Bad day at the office yesterday but were we really outplayed, overrun and outclassed? Honestly? Or is it just disappointment at losing? We were in this game up until half time fact. That's exactly where SCP would have wanted to be at least. He has come in for a fair amount of criticism for his substitutions in the past and yesterday gambled to go for the win in the 2nd half with changes that never paid off. Maybe Hulse should have come on instead of BWP or Jackson but he didn't and that one set piece opportunity that might have fallen to Jacko to nick the points didn't either. Let's not forget we are two of our best players missing until xmas and when they come back it will be like two new signings and others might be possible in the transfer window. Until then keep the faith, what we have is what we've got and I trust that SCP and his team will sort it. If we finish 4th from bottom come the end of the season that will do for me. Now take a drink from that half full cup all you pessimists...............now where did I put my rose tinted spectacles?
Just my personal view,the midfield is simply not good enough putting pressure on the defence of whom we expect the LB and RB to attack as well, give them a break.They are getting no cover from midfield and still we want them to be wingers.Until major surgery is performed on the midfield (I must admit I don't know how to do this with no money) we will struggle around the bottom of the league. One last point I can't remember ever seeing a team with so many players having to play out of position.
We beat Leicester and Blackpool, we are not far off being a decent team. We are struggling with injuries, forcing too many players out of position. Wilson has now found his feet so I'd play him in his preferred right midfield position. Move Solly back to right back and we are stronger down the right flank and midfield. We'll just have to take a chance with Evina at left back. Hollands is off the pace but Razak would make an excellent holding midfielder. Stephens is playing too deep to make make use of his creative and shooting abilities. Creativity is our major problem and Stephens needs to push forward more to create openings. We still have BWP, Hulse and Haynes plus perhaps Waggy or even Clarke to pick from up front. We should have enough in this squad to keep us ticking over until Fuller, Wiggins and Kermo return. We should not be over run with a midfield of Razak, Stephens, Wilson and Kerkar/Jackson, they should all be fine for this level, I just don't get why we should be so week in midfield with the players that we have, they are obviously not being played to their strengths.
Our win against Blackpool and then our dire lose to Barnsley just shows us what a topsy turvey league this is. We are still on track for mid table and I'm fine with that even though we were shocking yesterday.
I noticed the usual high points for the defence and low points for the midfield. The fact that the defence kept giving the ball away didn't help the cause. Cort's distribution was terrible and he was owned by Davis defensively. Razak produced the few bits of skill in the match so was sad to see him leave at half time. How Hollands gets a game is beyond me.
I'm watching QPR, bottom of Prem but their defence is carrying ball into Everton half whereas ours sits back and don't give midfield options. Iniesta would be a poor player in our side.
I noticed the usual high points for the defence and low points for the midfield. The fact that the defence kept giving the ball away didn't help the cause. Cort's distribution was terrible and he was owned by Davis defensively. Razak produced the few bits of skill in the match so was sad to see him leave at half time. How Hollands gets a game is beyond me.
Sorry have to disagree, Cort's distribution is never going to be in the Bobby Moore / Franz Beckenbauer class so for me those couple of early loose passes are perfectly acceptable at championship level and overall he did his job defensively. As for Hollands not his best 45 minutes yesterday but undoubtedly one of last seasons unsung heroes. Maybe this is a case of a bridge to far for him pace/skill wise or just loss of form but like SCP I would have Hollands in my squad every match day at the moment because he is an experienced pro, will always try his hardest, gets stuck in and is an attacking threat with his throw ins plus there are few alternatives.
I'm watching QPR, bottom of Prem but their defence is carrying ball into Everton half whereas ours sits back and don't give midfield options. Iniesta would be a poor player in our side.
I was shouting out to the defence to push up sat far to deep don't remember catching them offside once could be wrong
Having witnessed that tosh yesterday I fully expect our season to disintegrate from now on. We had no idea whatsoever. Two tough away matches coming up followed by two tough home matches and if we get more than 3 points from those I'll be surprised. This won't compromise my support for the boys and I'll be there cheering them on come what may as I have done for the past 46 years but I just can't see where the next win is coming from. My apologies to the optimists on this site.
I'm one of the optimists. However, I completely agree.
Comments
Did 4-4-2 help against Palace? No. Did it help against Watford? No.
It doesn't have to be a negative tactic. The fact that our midfield was totally outplayed today with three in the middle suggests that if we had a 4-4-2 it could have been a lot worse.
I thought the midfield lacked any strength or skill.
Green made a bad mistake for the goal, but imo Hammer made himself small when he should have stood up & he would have saved it.
Sad because with all the additional fans you would have thought the players might have been up for this one.
One up front at home to Barnsley !
Even with 5 in midfield there midfield was better.
Worried ? yes
Yesterday was a poor performance but in 4-5-1 we actually looked fairly solid and Barnsley for all their possession were quite easy to defend against. It's going to be a long season and most of our points will come away from home imo as we don't have enough to open teams up at home
It seems to me that it will be a case of grinding out enough results to keep us above the bottom three and getting in urgent reinforcements in January.Perhaps our best chances are away from home as there is just not enough skill in the team to get the chances at home.
4-5-1 can be an attacking option if you have central midfielders who break quickly and can quickly get into the box to support the lone striker. Russell to an extent did this when he played last season, thinking back the likes of Bowyer and Pardew could also do this for us. Unfortunately neither Jackson, Holland nor Stephens seem to have the engine to do this, Jackson is too slow, Holland seems to tire (and is slow), while Stephens prefers to sit deep playing the killer through ball.
Green was tucked in far too much all game leaving Wilson far too exposed.
Let's be fair no-ones hiding out there, you can't fault the effort the issue is a lack of quality on the ball, if Powell shares the same view as me that we aren't good enough to play a 4 man midfield with the current players as his disposal then we need to spend substantial on the training ground working on more fluid movement, quick offensive more retention and some desire to get in the box and commit to getting on the end of things.
Going back to yesterday - I couldn't care less if we played 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4,4,1,1 a diamond formation, a xmas tree formation or a bl***y red arrows formation.............just get the team to shoot more often and to get more players in the box. As an earlier poster said, Kerkar put in a couple of decent crosses but there was only Fuller in the box to take advantage - where were the others ??? To my mind Hollands & Stephens are too simaliar and dont get forward enough. Also, for all the midfielders on the pitch yesterday we don't have a ball carrying one, ala Parker, Bowyer, Jensen or Reid (Andy, not Kyle) - there is one playing for the reserves - Ruben Bover, and I would play him instead.
While waiting in line to be served, I was behind a family with a young boy about 6. His dad asked him if he enjoyed the game, and his reply was "it was ok, but next time we play Barnsley, I think I'll support them instead of Charlton"
I think it summed out how we seem to do when we have these cheap family games. We seem to get them in the ground, then lose them on the field of play......only at Charlton!
Keep the faith everyone !
COYR!!!!!
The fact that the defence kept giving the ball away didn't help the cause.
Cort's distribution was terrible and he was owned by Davis defensively.
Razak produced the few bits of skill in the match so was sad to see him leave at half time.
How Hollands gets a game is beyond me.