The team Parky took over were only going one way -the most unbalanced Charlton team I can ever rememeber
We just seemed to carry on the way we had been going. It was the most timid surrender in the history of football. Absolutely shameful.
Er, let's be fair here, when Parkinson took over the pot was completely empty - so who exactly could he bring in to arrest the slide?
As I recall, he was only able to bring in Gillespie on loan, Spring on a free and Kandol and Ward on loans - that was all he had available to him.
If you look at Parkinson's record following the breakthrough victory over Palace at The Valley then it was not all that bad compared to Pardew's.
Post Palace we played 19, won 4, drew 9 and only lost 6 - giving us 21 points over the 19 games which on a point-per-game basis would have given us 51 points over the season and possible safety.
By comparison, Pardew's record over his first 18 league game was won 4, drew 4, lost 10! Giving us 18 points and probably just 46 points over the season - and certain relegation.
Neither of their records that season is great but the damage was done by Pardew's crazy transfer policy which left us with a mountain of lightweight midfielders and one centre half (Captain Calamity Hudson)....which we tried to solve with a crocked Linvoy Primus and....the 5' 5" Matty Holland.
I know the bigger picture was that it was the middle of the credit crunch and nobody had the money to hire anyone else, but after his first 10 games we had dropped like a stone. Whether it was Pardews fault or whoever, Parkinson couldn't get to grips with it.
I know the bigger picture was that it was the middle of the credit crunch and nobody had the money to hire anyone else, but after his first 10 games we had dropped like a stone. Whether it was Pardews fault or whoever, Parkinson couldn't get to grips with it.
True, I had forgotten about the credit crunch!
Bottom line really is that we were doomed at the outset, despite two wins in the first four games (Swansea, Reading).
The squad was totally unbalanced, not enough defenders, not enough bite in midfield and no real punch up front either and for that Pardew has to take the blame, it was he who had put that shower of shite together.
If you look at Parky's subsequent transfer record, it was actually not too bad - he did not make any real howlers and brought in some great bargains like Burton, Dailly and (for a while) Reid.
It basically took the Great Clearout of June-August 2011 to bring the playing side back into proper shape, before that point we were always scrambling.
In our relegation season Pardew had a better points per game ratio than Parky and Parky was working with those players as well, his "assisting" must count as well he was Pardupeds sidekick during all the shit
The only match I've ever walked out of was the defeat to Sheffield Utd a few years ago. I also had the misfortune to witness some horrendous defeats in the 70's and 80's. So, my vote as worst manager goes to Alan Pardew closely followed by Ken Craggs and Les Reed
Cory Gibbs - Feyenoord, £0 (Board Signing) - Released Gonzalo Sorondo £0 (Board Signing) - Released Simon Walton - signed for £500,000 - Sold for £200,000 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Middlesbrough, £0 - Released Djimi Traoré - Liverpool, £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,000,000 Amdy Faye - Newcastle United, £2,000,000 - Sold for Undisclosed fee believed to be £500,000 Scott Carson - Liverpool, season loan - loan ended. Andy Reid - Tottenham Hotspur, £3,000,000 sold for £5,000.000 Souleymane Diawara - Sochaux, £3,700,000 sold for fee rising to £4,000.000 (which it did) Omar Pouso Loan - loan fee £375,000 - sent back but will never be missed.
Total Spent £11,575.000 Total Recouped £10,700,000
Pardew signings
Ben Thatcher - Manchester City, £500,000 - Released Madjid Bougherra - £2,500,000 - £2,500,000 Chris Dickson £35,000 - Released Martin Christensen £350,000 - Released Luke Varney - £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,100,000 Chris Iwelumo - Free - Sold for £350,000 Paddy McCarthy - £650,000 - Sold for £500,000 Yassin Moutaouakil - £400,000 - Released Jose Semedo - Free - Released Chris Powell - Free - Released Nicky Weaver - Free - Released Svetoslav Todorov - Free - Released Dean Sinclair - £125,000 - Released Izale McLeod - £1,100,000 - Released Zheng Zhi -£2,000,000 - Released Therry Racon - £372,394 - Released Dorian Smith - £10,000 - Released Paolo Monteiro - Free - Released Andy Gray - £1,500,000 - sold for £500,000 Mark Hudson - Free - Sold for £1,075,000 Stuart Fleetwood - £150,000 - Released Nicky Bailey - £725,000 - Sold for £1,400,000 Plus about 100 loans which some wouldve had fees attached.
Total Spent £12,417,394 Total Recouped £7,425,000
Good info ISPP. Pretty damning of Pardew whilst suggesting that Dowie's signings were better value. So how does this loan fee business work - did we have to pay (Penarol?) £375k for 57 minutes worth of football?
It should't be forgotten that the £1,100,000 recouped on Luke Varney went straight into Pardew's pocket to pay him off when he got the boot.
Worst manager shouldn't merely have to be results based. Pardew is the worst manager in our history for being an arrogant a***hole, for stealing a living by sending out that shambles of a side in the Championship and for taking the £1m pay-out when he should have walked away.
Sorry, I know this is miles off topic but what the hell happened with Omar Pouso? He was some brilliant signing and he didn't complete a full game. I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY I suspect you may have the knowledge on this?
When i saw him in a reserve game vs Chelsea at stonebridge road, he was best player on the pitch by a country mile. But i'm sure Dowie signed him on the basis of his goal against England earlier that year and that simply he wasn't anywhere near the fitness levels of a premiership player.
He is currently playing for Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata (an Argentinian club).
What everyone agrees is that the whole lot of them after Curbs were useless until we arrive at Powell.
But in a way we're not quite comparing like with like. Pardew and Dowie didn't spend wisely. Parkinson, on the other hand, signed poor players but had little money to spend.
My personal feeling is that if Parkinson had been given a big budget, he probably would have spent it badly and might well have had a worse record than the signing tables shown above for Dowie and Pardew.
Why? Because despite their litany of mistakes, I suspect both ID and AP still probably have a better eye for a player than PP.
But that'sjust speculation. Every one of them was a nightmare in their way and I'm glad they've gone and we eventually found some light at the end of what at the time seemed like a very long tunnel.
While Parkinson's record in the relegation season was poor, in the 1st season in L1, I thought Parky did a fairly good job, putting together a competitive team with meagre resources; if we had been able to sign BWP (or someone similar)in January 2010 instead of January 2011, those goals could have clinched us automatic, as Leeds were nearly as bad as us by the end of the season, and Millwall came from quite a long way back to overtake us. Instead we had Mooney up front...
What everyone agrees is that the whole lot of them after Curbs were useless until we arrive at Powell.
But in a way we're not quite comparing like with like. Pardew and Dowie didn't spend wisely. Parkinson, on the other hand, signed poor players but had little money to spend.
My personal feeling is that if Parkinson had been given a big budget, he probably would have spent it badly and might well have had a worse record than the signing tables shown above for Dowie and Pardew.
Why? Because despite their litany of mistakes, I suspect both ID and AP still probably have a better eye for a player than PP.
But that'sjust speculation. Every one of them was a nightmare in their way and I'm glad they've gone and we eventually found some light at the end of what at the time seemed like a very long tunnel.
As you say, speculation.
Hard to believe Parky had a worse eye for a player than the manager that signed the likes of Faye and Traore (even if they had some ability, they were never 'Charlton players'), or would have built a squad with dozens of attacking midfielders and only two centre backs.
If Parky was as bad as some insist he was, we'd have struggled in League 1 under him, something many predicted.
Wasn't Parky's return from his 8 games as caretaker W0 D3 L5? And after that didn't the board say he was the best man for the job full time?
What that tells you loud and clear was that his limitations were known but he was all we could afford. As Z Bagheri says above, not resigning and taking a £mill from the club he f####d was unforgivable and the worst no doubt about it was Pardew.
BTW who bought Bagheri ? I guess that was Curbs proving even he wasn't infallible.
While Parkinson's record in the relegation season was poor, in the 1st season in L1, I thought Parky did a fairly good job, putting together a competitive team with meagre resources; if we had been able to sign BWP (or someone similar)in January 2010 instead of January 2011, those goals could have clinched us automatic, as Leeds were nearly as bad as us by the end of the season, and Millwall came from quite a long way back to overtake us. Instead we had Mooney up front...
Indeed.
With an improved squad (the addition of BWP + Ecclestone) Powell had a far, far points per game record than Parkinson.
Thankfully, CP was given funds to refresh the squad and the rest is history but Parkinson could not have squeezed much more out of the squad he had.
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.
Craggs did have Simonsen of course, but it was an ill-fated appointment at a time when we were heading down the pooper. I might have been harsh on him, I have a feeling his record wasn't as bad as the perception of his record.
I don't recall Mullery as badly as some do on here, but I was quite young. I do remember Mike Bailey got us up playing relatively direct and Mullery seemed to want to change everything about a squad that had been successful - a mistake Powell isn't making. I'm sure others here remember him better than i do.
Theo can't ever be rated as our worst manager - he signed Hales, if he did nothing else he's signed our biggest legend.
Am i the only one who thought Dowie's style of footy was actually pretty good?
Passing from the back etc, kind of like how Brendan Rodgers etc are doing now? BUT without the decent defending which was our downfall!
Yes, you are actually correct there, he did try and play more football than Curbs but the problem was that we did not have adequate steel in the side.
At home vs Pompey we played a 4-3-1-2 formation and played some neat stuff but lost to a sucker punch goal and never really looked like scoring ourselves.
Whilst Pardew's record in the transfer market is utterly scandalous, it's worth pointing out that we were much harder up, and in many cases just desperate to get people off the wage bill, when getting rid of Pardew's flops in comparison to disposing of Dowie's, so were less able to negotiate good transfer fees at that point, and I think that should be taken into account when looking at Pardew's transfer deficit in comparison to Dowie's.
Any manager who thinks that Traore and Faye were worth a combined £4m shouldn't be allowed to play Championship Manager, let alone run a football team in the real world.
Am i the only one who thought Dowie's style of footy was actually pretty good?
Passing from the back etc, kind of like how Brendan Rodgers etc are doing now? BUT without the decent defending which was our downfall!
Yes, you are actually correct there, he did try and play more football than Curbs but the problem was that we did not have adequate steel in the side.
At home vs Pompey we played a 4-3-1-2 formation and played some neat stuff but lost to a sucker punch goal and never really looked like scoring ourselves.
Rommedahl nearly scored a cracking volley though! Think the downfall in that formation was playing a diamond of Pouso-Ambrose-Rommedahl-JFH.
I hated Dowie. waste of time and just ego getting the better of Murray there i think. how could he of actually thought the following: 'hmmm Curbishley done really well for us...who can replace him? ah yes that excellent manager who has done wonders at my local rivals Palace. i will give that twat Jordan a call right away'
Err...if there was anyone on that day to stop Murray from making that phone call or decision then surely they must have been sacked by now as well?
It has to be Pardew - for those who think it might be Parkinson lets remember who brought him to the club in the first place. Les Reed was never a manager - but he was a very good coach, and we should remember how we virtually stopped coaching players during the Pardew/Parkinson years - it is very difficult to think of any players who got better as each season progressed. Not only did Pardew damage the club financially with his transfer activity but he also did so with his own farcical Bob Diamond level pay off - and his ridiculous excursions into the loan market (remember how we has 44 first team players in one season). But worst of all the man seems lack any shred of humility - it was always someone or something else's fault than his own.
I feel sorry for what the Newcastle United fans are about to receive.
Am i the only one who thought Dowie's style of footy was actually pretty good?
Passing from the back etc, kind of like how Brendan Rodgers etc are doing now? BUT without the decent defending which was our downfall!
Yes, you are actually correct there, he did try and play more football than Curbs but the problem was that we did not have adequate steel in the side.
At home vs Pompey we played a 4-3-1-2 formation and played some neat stuff but lost to a sucker punch goal and never really looked like scoring ourselves.
Rommedahl nearly scored a cracking volley though! Think the downfall in that formation was playing a diamond of Pouso-Ambrose-Rommedahl-JFH.
Ha! I had forgotten the Dennis volley, that would have been a cracker.
Whomever is deemed worst out of Reed, Parkinson, Dowie and Pardew it basically comes down to piss poor succession planning by the board for Curb's inevitable departure and a significant failure to control the spending of their money by the likes of Pardew and Dowie after keeping Curbishley on a tight reign in that department for years.
Whomever is deemed worst out of Reed, Parkinson, Dowie and Pardew it basically comes down to piss poor succession planning by the board for Curb's inevitable departure and a significant failure to control the spending of their money by the likes of Pardew and Dowie after keeping Curbishley on a tight reign in that department for years.
agree. When you start advertising in the paper for the job it showed their complete lack of professionalism and organisation. Then you hire dowie, who just seemed to get the job so Murray could get one over jordan. The money was poorly spent on the most part, Diawara being an exception, "the most expensive defender you’ve never heard off". The board knew when curbs was leaving. they should of had a contingency plan if their chosen manager passed the offer of managing us. The board knew that money needed to be spent because curbs (great as he was) had left us with a pretty naff squad of players. It all seemed so desperate to get some of the players we did get. again just like it seemed so desperate to get the manager we got. no chosen targets...Traoré for god sake. bambie on ice.
Dowie blows the money and makes the already naff squad even worse. with a couple of exceptions. sack him. They appoint Reed because again they don’t think things through. Reed said yes to the job because he loved Charlton, most of us would of done the same. some of us might like to think we would do a better job than Reed but on the most part we would probably be as good as him if not worse. I don’t blame Reed, he IMO is a coach and a supporter but not a manager. pardew comes in. does a scatter gun approach to signings. makes the team even worse. sack him. Parkinson. no way first choice but when in a desperate situation you get desperate. (not like it wasn’t before) does alright. up to a point.
overall it seemed the board were caught sleeping when curbs left. they had only one manager they wanted, he didn’t come, which in business happens alot. they throw money at dowie who goes and wastes a big percentage of it. they piss off a good defender and had to many XXXXXXXXXXL shorts that they had to get rid of and so ask for JFH to come in. with pardew the same chuck money at it. It seemed after curbs left the board went into panic stations. Murray wanted to prove a point that he was as much a part of the success at charlton as curbs was so instead of taking it easy, have a plan and just keep us in the prem and then building from that, he thinks with a bit of money he can have us challenging UEFA spots.
The managers were rubbish but the board were inept at being in charge of a club and looking after their money.
Comments
As I recall, he was only able to bring in Gillespie on loan, Spring on a free and Kandol and Ward on loans - that was all he had available to him.
If you look at Parkinson's record following the breakthrough victory over Palace at The Valley then it was not all that bad compared to Pardew's.
Post Palace we played 19, won 4, drew 9 and only lost 6 - giving us 21 points over the 19 games which on a point-per-game basis would have given us 51 points over the season and possible safety.
By comparison, Pardew's record over his first 18 league game was won 4, drew 4, lost 10! Giving us 18 points and probably just 46 points over the season - and certain relegation.
Neither of their records that season is great but the damage was done by Pardew's crazy transfer policy which left us with a mountain of lightweight midfielders and one centre half (Captain Calamity Hudson)....which we tried to solve with a crocked Linvoy Primus and....the 5' 5" Matty Holland.
I know the bigger picture was that it was the middle of the credit crunch and nobody had the money to hire anyone else, but after his first 10 games we had dropped like a stone. Whether it was Pardews fault or whoever, Parkinson couldn't get to grips with it.
Bottom line really is that we were doomed at the outset, despite two wins in the first four games (Swansea, Reading).
The squad was totally unbalanced, not enough defenders, not enough bite in midfield and no real punch up front either and for that Pardew has to take the blame, it was he who had put that shower of shite together.
If you look at Parky's subsequent transfer record, it was actually not too bad - he did not make any real howlers and brought in some great bargains like Burton, Dailly and (for a while) Reid.
It basically took the Great Clearout of June-August 2011 to bring the playing side back into proper shape, before that point we were always scrambling.
It should't be forgotten that the £1,100,000 recouped on Luke Varney went straight into Pardew's pocket to pay him off when he got the boot.
Worst manager shouldn't merely have to be results based. Pardew is the worst manager in our history for being an arrogant a***hole, for stealing a living by sending out that shambles of a side in the Championship and for taking the £1m pay-out when he should have walked away.
He is currently playing for Club de Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata (an Argentinian club).
What everyone agrees is that the whole lot of them after Curbs were useless until we arrive at Powell.
But in a way we're not quite comparing like with like. Pardew and Dowie didn't spend wisely. Parkinson, on the other hand, signed poor players but had little money to spend.
My personal feeling is that if Parkinson had been given a big budget, he probably would have spent it badly and might well have had a worse record than the signing tables shown above for Dowie and Pardew.
Why? Because despite their litany of mistakes, I suspect both ID and AP still probably have a better eye for a player than PP.
But that'sjust speculation. Every one of them was a nightmare in their way and I'm glad they've gone and we eventually found some light at the end of what at the time seemed like a very long tunnel.
Hard to believe Parky had a worse eye for a player than the manager that signed the likes of Faye and Traore (even if they had some ability, they were never 'Charlton players'), or would have built a squad with dozens of attacking midfielders and only two centre backs.
If Parky was as bad as some insist he was, we'd have struggled in League 1 under him, something many predicted.
What that tells you loud and clear was that his limitations were known but he was all we could afford. As Z Bagheri says above, not resigning and taking a £mill from the club he f####d was unforgivable and the worst no doubt about it was Pardew.
BTW who bought Bagheri ? I guess that was Curbs proving even he wasn't infallible.
With an improved squad (the addition of BWP + Ecclestone) Powell had a far, far points per game record than Parkinson.
Thankfully, CP was given funds to refresh the squad and the rest is history but Parkinson could not have squeezed much more out of the squad he had.
Passing from the back etc, kind of like how Brendan Rodgers etc are doing now? BUT without the decent defending which was our downfall!
Craggs did have Simonsen of course, but it was an ill-fated appointment at a time when we were heading down the pooper. I might have been harsh on him, I have a feeling his record wasn't as bad as the perception of his record.
I don't recall Mullery as badly as some do on here, but I was quite young. I do remember Mike Bailey got us up playing relatively direct and Mullery seemed to want to change everything about a squad that had been successful - a mistake Powell isn't making. I'm sure others here remember him better than i do.
Theo can't ever be rated as our worst manager - he signed Hales, if he did nothing else he's signed our biggest legend.
At home vs Pompey we played a 4-3-1-2 formation and played some neat stuff but lost to a sucker punch goal and never really looked like scoring ourselves.
Any manager who thinks that Traore and Faye were worth a combined £4m shouldn't be allowed to play Championship Manager, let alone run a football team in the real world.
'hmmm Curbishley done really well for us...who can replace him? ah yes that excellent manager who has done wonders at my local rivals Palace. i will give that twat Jordan a call right away'
Err...if there was anyone on that day to stop Murray from making that phone call or decision then surely they must have been sacked by now as well?
what was he thinking!
I feel sorry for what the Newcastle United fans are about to receive.
When you start advertising in the paper for the job it showed their complete lack of professionalism and organisation.
Then you hire dowie, who just seemed to get the job so Murray could get one over jordan.
The money was poorly spent on the most part, Diawara being an exception, "the most expensive defender you’ve never heard off".
The board knew when curbs was leaving. they should of had a contingency plan if their chosen manager passed the offer of managing us.
The board knew that money needed to be spent because curbs (great as he was) had left us with a pretty naff squad of players. It all seemed so desperate to get some of the players we did get. again just like it seemed so desperate to get the manager we got. no chosen targets...Traoré for god sake. bambie on ice.
Dowie blows the money and makes the already naff squad even worse. with a couple of exceptions. sack him.
They appoint Reed because again they don’t think things through. Reed said yes to the job because he loved Charlton, most of us would of done the same. some of us might like to think we would do a better job than Reed but on the most part we would probably be as good as him if not worse. I don’t blame Reed, he IMO is a coach and a supporter but not a manager.
pardew comes in. does a scatter gun approach to signings. makes the team even worse. sack him.
Parkinson. no way first choice but when in a desperate situation you get desperate. (not like it wasn’t before) does alright. up to a point.
overall it seemed the board were caught sleeping when curbs left. they had only one manager they wanted, he didn’t come, which in business happens alot. they throw money at dowie who goes and wastes a big percentage of it. they piss off a good defender and had to many XXXXXXXXXXL shorts that they had to get rid of and so ask for JFH to come in. with pardew the same chuck money at it. It seemed after curbs left the board went into panic stations.
Murray wanted to prove a point that he was as much a part of the success at charlton as curbs was so instead of taking it easy, have a plan and just keep us in the prem and then building from that, he thinks with a bit of money he can have us challenging UEFA spots.
The managers were rubbish but the board were inept at being in charge of a club and looking after their money.