Think Theo Foley is getting off lightly on this thread, probably not the worst but in the bottom 3,
3/. Foley 2/. Reed 1/. Craggs
gilbertfilbert said Can't agree about Foley. He made some brilliant signings when we didn't have the proverbial pot -- Powell, Hales and Flanagan anyone?
Great signings, but took us down to the Div. 3 pub league (Div 1 to our younger viewers) with the remnants of Firmani's side that just missed promo. to the promised land. Also had us finishing 11th and 13th in the Third Div. prior to being sacked whereas Nelson came in the following season and got us instant promotion.
Dowie was poor. Spent loads of money and failed to deliver. Pardew did not have a clue what was going on and he's the worst manager we've had because he spent £1m on McLeod. Les Reed isn't to blame. Who else was there for us? Thought his appointment was a bit unfair on him. Parky shouldn't have been sacked IMO (although in glad he was now). Thought he was doing well with limited funds available to him.
Think Theo Foley is getting off lightly on this thread, probably not the worst but in the bottom 3,
3/. Foley 2/. Reed 1/. Craggs
gilbertfilbert said Can't agree about Foley. He made some brilliant signings when we didn't have the proverbial pot -- Powell, Hales and Flanagan anyone?
Great signings, but took us down to the Div. 3 pub league (Div 1 to our younger viewers) with the remnants of Firmani's side that just missed promo. to the promised land. Also had us finishing 11th and 13th in the Third Div. prior to being sacked whereas Nelson came in the following season and got us instant promotion.
Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
To be fair to Theo, Firmani's near promotion team of 69 finished third from bottom in 1970 and were on the way down the following season before Theo took over with 3 games to go and we stayed up by the skin of out teeth - again 3rd from bottom ( only 2 down in those days ). OK we went down the following year but the seeds of disaster had been sown, especially following Alan Campbell's falling out with Firmani and his departure to Birmingham.
Theo brought a huge amount money into the club in his transfer dealings. We paid about 5k for the Killer and got a British transfer record of 330K in 1976 and 650K for Flan in 1979. Huge sums I'm those daysy
Wasn't Dowie accusing Reed of stitching him up to get the job?
A friend of a friend new darren bents old man and DB said reed has stitched up dowie and the players didn't want reed in charge ... And 12 games only for Dowie was never enough and he got us to the league cup 1/4 s ....not forgetting the enforced coaching structure that murray put on him
I mean murray turned down curbs offer to see out his contract and turned down curbs offer to help find a replacement (curbs preferred choice at the time was mick mccarthy )
Cory Gibbs - Feyenoord, £0 (Board Signing) - Released Gonzalo Sorondo £0 (Board Signing) - Released Simon Walton - signed for £500,000 - Sold for £200,000 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Middlesbrough, £0 - Released Djimi Traoré - Liverpool, £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,000,000 Amdy Faye - Newcastle United, £2,000,000 - Sold for Undisclosed fee believed to be £500,000 Scott Carson - Liverpool, season loan - loan ended. Andy Reid - Tottenham Hotspur, £3,000,000 sold for £5,000.000 Souleymane Diawara - Sochaux, £3,700,000 sold for fee rising to £4,000.000 (which it did) Omar Pouso Loan - loan fee £375,000 - sent back but will never be missed.
Total Spent £11,575.000 Total Recouped £10,700,000
Pardew signings
Ben Thatcher - Manchester City, £500,000 - Released Madjid Bougherra - £2,500,000 - £2,500,000 Chris Dickson £35,000 - Released Martin Christensen £350,000 - Released Luke Varney - £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,100,000 Chris Iwelumo - Free - Sold for £350,000 Paddy McCarthy - £650,000 - Sold for £500,000 Yassin Moutaouakil - £400,000 - Released Jose Semedo - Free - Released Chris Powell - Free - Released Nicky Weaver - Free - Released Svetoslav Todorov - Free - Released Dean Sinclair - £125,000 - Released Izale McLeod - £1,100,000 - Released Zheng Zhi -£2,000,000 - Released Therry Racon - £372,394 - Released Dorian Smith - £10,000 - Released Paolo Monteiro - Free - Released Andy Gray - £1,500,000 - sold for £500,000 Mark Hudson - Free - Sold for £1,075,000 Stuart Fleetwood - £150,000 - Released Nicky Bailey - £725,000 - Sold for £1,400,000 Plus about 100 loans which some wouldve had fees attached.
Total Spent £12,417,394 Total Recouped £7,425,000
Good info ISPP. Pretty damning of Pardew whilst suggesting that Dowie's signings were better value. So how does this loan fee business work - did we have to pay (Penarol?) £375k for 57 minutes worth of football?
Cory Gibbs - Feyenoord, £0 (Board Signing) - Released Gonzalo Sorondo £0 (Board Signing) - Released Simon Walton - signed for £500,000 - Sold for £200,000 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - Middlesbrough, £0 - Released Djimi Traoré - Liverpool, £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,000,000 Amdy Faye - Newcastle United, £2,000,000 - Sold for Undisclosed fee believed to be £500,000 Scott Carson - Liverpool, season loan - loan ended. Andy Reid - Tottenham Hotspur, £3,000,000 sold for £5,000.000 Souleymane Diawara - Sochaux, £3,700,000 sold for fee rising to £4,000.000 (which it did) Omar Pouso Loan - loan fee £375,000 - sent back but will never be missed.
Total Spent £11,575.000 Total Recouped £10,700,000
Pardew signings
Ben Thatcher - Manchester City, £500,000 - Released Madjid Bougherra - £2,500,000 - £2,500,000 Chris Dickson £35,000 - Released Martin Christensen £350,000 - Released Luke Varney - £2,000,000 - Sold for £1,100,000 Chris Iwelumo - Free - Sold for £350,000 Paddy McCarthy - £650,000 - Sold for £500,000 Yassin Moutaouakil - £400,000 - Released Jose Semedo - Free - Released Chris Powell - Free - Released Nicky Weaver - Free - Released Svetoslav Todorov - Free - Released Dean Sinclair - £125,000 - Released Izale McLeod - £1,100,000 - Released Zheng Zhi -£2,000,000 - Released Therry Racon - £372,394 - Released Dorian Smith - £10,000 - Released Paolo Monteiro - Free - Released Andy Gray - £1,500,000 - sold for £500,000 Mark Hudson - Free - Sold for £1,075,000 Stuart Fleetwood - £150,000 - Released Nicky Bailey - £725,000 - Sold for £1,400,000 Plus about 100 loans which some wouldve had fees attached.
Total Spent £12,417,394 Total Recouped £7,425,000
Good info ISPP. Pretty damning of Pardew whilst suggesting that Dowie's signings were better value. So how does this loan fee business work - did we have to pay (Penarol?) £375k for 57 minutes worth of football?
Yes, checked on old website. If we had made it permanent wouldve been extra £1.375m
Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
In response to Len Glover:
Included in the 1971/72 relegation squad were Ray Treacy, Graham Moore, Peter Reeves and Paul Went as well as the aforementioned Keith Peacock and Bob Curtis all of whom were regulars in Firmani's 1968/68 side. Sir, I think you do some of the above players a disservice to suggest they were not "half decent". Just my opinion of course.
Give me the 71 -72 relegation season over the Dowie few months in control.You only had too be on the pre-season tour of Holland and Belgium to see that the season ahead was going to be a nightmare.What he undone in 15games was 15years in the making.DOWIE the one signing i wish Murray did not make.
Wasn't Dowie accusing Reed of stitching him up to get the job?
A friend of a friend new darren bents old man and DB said reed has stitched up dowie and the players didn't want reed in charge ... And 12 games only for Dowie was never enough and he got us to the league cup 1/4 s ....not forgetting the enforced coaching structure that murray put on him
I mean murray turned down curbs offer to see out his contract and turned down curbs offer to help find a replacement (curbs preferred choice at the time was mick mccarthy )
And Murray dumped the structure to get Pardew - Dowie has got a rough press IMO. I don't think he was a great manager but he did have the players fighting for him and made some decent signings and was sacked too early.
Sorry, I know this is miles off topic but what the hell happened with Omar Pouso? He was some brilliant signing and he didn't complete a full game. I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY I suspect you may have the knowledge on this?
I've always said that Pardew would have made a better job than Parky at keeping us in the Championship so for me it has to be Parky - the number of times we conceded after going ahead under Parky was astonishing, plus his inability to utilize Shelvey suggests that even with any kind of transfer kitty he would have still struggled.
Dowie's signings may have blossomed had he been able to continue, so we may have all been able to eventually see whatever it was that he saw in them. Amdy Faye - not so much.
Pardew had a lot longer with his signings and at least seemed to have a little tactical nous.
Les Reed's tenure was just too short and I'm way too fond of him to include him in this assessment, although I suspect that had he been Parky's right hand man we might have faired better.
Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
In response to Len Glover:
Included in the 1971/72 relegation squad were Ray Treacy, Graham Moore, Peter Reeves and Paul Went as well as the aforementioned Keith Peacock and Bob Curtis all of whom were regulars in Firmani's 1968/68 side. Sir, I think you do some of the above players a disservice to suggest they were not "half decent". Just my opinion of course.
Graham Moore didn't play at all and Peter Reeves only played half the matches. I must confess though my surprise that Treacy and Went both played virtually the whole season as did Warman incidentally. Sometimes the seasons blend into each other 40 years on!
The sad truth is that both Reed and Parkinson were appointed while we were struggling but still in touch. In both cases within 10 games of them taking charge we were effectively finished.
Craggs was the Parkinson of his time, picking up the sh** left by Mullery who was the real culprit.
He did buy Simonsen, White, Bullivant and Harris which was a fair amount at the time
I thought Bullivant was Mullery's man and White was a makeweight in the Paul Walsh deal and thus not too much to do with the manager but could be wrong....
Comments
Think Theo Foley is getting off lightly on this thread, probably not the worst but in the bottom 3,
3/. Foley
2/. Reed
1/. Craggs
gilbertfilbert said
Can't agree about Foley. He made some brilliant signings when we didn't have the proverbial pot -- Powell, Hales and Flanagan anyone?
Great signings, but took us down to the Div. 3 pub league (Div 1 to our younger viewers) with the remnants of Firmani's side that just missed promo. to the promised land.
Also had us finishing 11th and 13th in the Third Div. prior to being sacked whereas Nelson came in the following season and got us instant promotion.
Pardew did not have a clue what was going on and he's the worst manager we've had because he spent £1m on McLeod.
Les Reed isn't to blame. Who else was there for us? Thought his appointment was a bit unfair on him.
Parky shouldn't have been sacked IMO (although in glad he was now). Thought he was doing well with limited funds available to him.
Anyway, Craggs for me. Closely followed by Pardew.
Reid was a great coach. Just couldnt step up as a manager.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
Theo brought a huge amount money into the club in his transfer dealings. We paid about 5k for the Killer and got a British transfer record of 330K in 1976 and 650K for Flan in 1979. Huge sums I'm those daysy
And 12 games only for Dowie was never enough and he got us to the league cup 1/4 s ....not forgetting the enforced coaching structure that murray put on him
I mean murray turned down curbs offer to see out his contract and turned down curbs offer to help find a replacement (curbs preferred choice at the time was mick mccarthy )
Anybody half decent from Firmani's side left other than Peacock, Curtis and young Warman who wasn't really established at that stage.
Foley was left with a rebuild job which he actually did quite well but Andy Nelson reaped the benefit of his efforts.
The mere act of signing Hales, Flanagan and Powell keeps Foley out of this discussion in my view as others have also said.
In response to Len Glover:
Included in the 1971/72 relegation squad were Ray Treacy, Graham Moore, Peter Reeves and Paul Went as well as the aforementioned Keith Peacock and Bob Curtis all of whom were regulars in Firmani's 1968/68 side.
Sir, I think you do some of the above players a disservice to suggest they were not "half decent".
Just my opinion of course.
Dowie's signings may have blossomed had he been able to continue, so we may have all been able to eventually see whatever it was that he saw in them. Amdy Faye - not so much.
Pardew had a lot longer with his signings and at least seemed to have a little tactical nous.
Les Reed's tenure was just too short and I'm way too fond of him to include him in this assessment, although I suspect that had he been Parky's right hand man we might have faired better.
So I guess we're both right :-)
EDIT: Bullivant was indeed Craggs' man.
My memory's going :-(