Championship expectations

CL_Phantom · May 30

To jump in on the Wrexham debate (because apparently I cant help but love to hate them), I always saw the Champ as the ceiling for them unless Hollywood A and Hollywood C sell up after a season of survival. I wont predict where they'll finish out of spite this time and say they'll be closer to relegation than promotion, sure momentum is one thing and having all the Disney tie in dosh but they've got an even bigger squad building job on than us.

They need to shift a LOT of aged league one chaff before they can start splashing the cash, they've got 6 forwards under contract for next season already:

Jay Rod - 35
Ollie Palmer - 33
Jack Marriot - 30
Paul Mullin - 30
Sam Smith - 27
Mo Faal - 22

Steven Fletcher (released) was their highest scoring forward with 8. I dont see any other than Smith stepping up. No league one club is going to take on any of those for a fee + wages, maybe a Bolton take Mullin.

Its pretty much like this throughout their squad.

Us, I see surviving, noting spectacular except doing the double over that special lot down the road.

Chris_from_Sidcup · May 30

Braziliance said:

Reckon Wrexham will go down personally. Phil Parkinson is just not a good enough manager at this level and they'll get found out against the better sides. Momentum can only take you so far.

The Plymouth champions from 2022/23 were a much better side and stayed up by just 1 point in 23/24, and have course just been relegated. That Plymouth team had far more quality and a better style.

Ourselves, Wrexham, Preston, Hull, Stoke and probably Oxford, that's your clear favourites to go down.

We do have one of the worst squads on paper, you can go through every champ side and find that out for yourself.

The only thing we have going for us mainly, other than a handful of good players is Nathan Jones, a manager very accustomed to this league, a manager that navigated Luton town to a championship play-off semi, and got Luton mid-table the year prior and earned himself manager of the season.

That's our x-factor this season. Without him we would probably be buggered.

If they show signs of struggling he'll quickly be gone.

I don't think they'll go down.

fenlandaddick · May 30

I think we will finish mid table around 7th to 10th. I'll know around 10 games in if we have brought in enough quality to achieve this.

NJ teams are always strong in the second half of the season.

J BLOCK · May 30

PWR
Survival will be monumental. The Championship is a lot more competitive than the last time we were in it, the money floating around is ridiculous. That, coupled with the other 2 promoted teams who will not be near a relegation battle and our team needing a lot of work, will mean survival being a big big achievement.

NabySarr · May 30

J BLOCK said:

PWR
Survival will be monumental. The Championship is a lot more competitive than the last time we were in it, the money floating around is ridiculous. That, coupled with the other 2 promoted teams who will not be near a relegation battle and our team needing a lot of work, will mean survival being a big big achievement.

I would take 21st now if offered, but I do think we will be fine. Jones will be saying exactly this to the board now and pushing hard for investments, we can’t waste this opportunity and end up back in league 1

JamAddick · May 30

This was Portsmouth’s start to the season just gone. Stuck with the manager and ended up securing survival before the final day of the season. All about keeping the faith and sticking with the manager/team

jose · May 30

I think Wrexham doing something about their stadium is a good move.

Although I would like Crystal Palace to bankrupt themselves by trying to upgrade Selhurst Park.

ShootersHillGuru · May 30

Speculating at this point is pretty pointless. Our squad is unlikely to be anything like it currently is and we’re effectively an unknown quantity on that basis. I think it’s almost impossible that the owners arnt aware that the difference between league one and The Championship is huge in terms quality and finances. It would be remiss of them not to have a very good handle on what’s needed to progress. We have a good manager and provided he’s given the tools to do his job I think we’ll be ok but if we think we can stay up on the cheap then we’ll fail miserably. I don’t think we’ll get near mid table and will be looking over our shoulder all season. As long as we stay up and progress year on year I’m happy.

Chris_from_Sidcup · May 30

fenlandaddick said:

I think we will finish mid table around 7th to 10th. I'll know around 10 games in if we have brought in enough quality to achieve this.
NJ teams are always strong in the second half of the season.

Not what i'd class as mid-table. Just missing out on the play offs would be an amazing season. Personally i think you're wildly overestimating us, those places would've put us above the likes of Norwich, Sheff Weds, QPR this season.

Portsmouth were the highest of the promoted clubs this year, 16th with 54 points. I'd be happy with that but let's see.

MummysLittleSoldier · May 30

My overriding memory of the Champ squad last time out was that it was pretty shit and yet we were within a minute of survival. Some names that racked up 10+ appearances:

Josh Davison, George Lapslie, Erhun Oztumer, Jake Forster-Caskey

20+ appearances:

Albie Morgan, Deji Oshilaja, Macauley Bonne

And they are just the highlighted players that I think are generally considered amongst fans to be L1 at the very very best. Some other players who Charlton Life seem to debate for eternity just how good they where who also racked up 10+ Championship appearances:

Jason Pearce, Ben Purrington, Adam Matthews, Jonny Williams, Jonathan Leko.

I know the Champ this year is 'stronger' but the point is, that squad when you read through the list is particularly crap and once you take out Cullen, Gallagher, Taylor (sorry) it becomes laughably bad. Spirit, momentum, good management will carry you pretty far.

Our squad RIGHT NOW is probably better equipped for the League than the names who were actually with us for the start of the 2019 season in my opinion, even if the 2019 Wembley side was potentially better than 2025. We had so many kids and pretty bang average L1 players.

There are a lot of transfers to be made but decent loans and a couple of Champ experience players and I think we should be positive to survive, which can be the only expectation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Charlton_Athletic_F.C._season

NabySarr · May 30

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

fenlandaddick said:

I think we will finish mid table around 7th to 10th. I'll know around 10 games in if we have brought in enough quality to achieve this.
NJ teams are always strong in the second half of the season.

Not what i'd class as mid-table. Just missing out on the play offs would be an amazing season. Personally i think you're wildly overestimating us, those places would've put us above the likes of Norwich, Sheff Weds, QPR this season.

Portsmouth were the highest of the promoted clubs this year, 16th with 54 points. I'd be happy with that but let's see.

Top half is out of the question really. If we finished 16th that would be an incredible effort

Crispywood · May 30

With the growing gap between championship and L1 lots of stable clubs and hardly any bad championship managers heading into next season 21st place would be a brilliant season, obviously hate to get relegated but we can’t deny we will probably be the favourites to go down

NorthumberlandAddick · May 30

jose said:

I think Wrexham doing something about their stadium is a good move.
Although I would like Crystal Palace to bankrupt themselves by trying to upgrade Selhurst Park.

I don't think a sheet of corrugated iron and four wooden poles would cost much these days so I think Palace will be ok.

Woodwork · May 30

MummysLittleSoldier said:

My overriding memory of the Champ squad last time out was that it was pretty shit and yet we were within a minute of survival. Some names that racked up 10+ appearances:

I know the Champ this year is 'stronger' but the point is, that squad when you read through the list is particularly crap and once you take out Cullen, Gallagher, Taylor (sorry) it becomes laughably bad. Spirit, momentum, good management will carry you pretty far.

That was before the new TV deal. The quality has jumped, because the finances have. Preston NE spend more than double our wage spend & were one of the weak Championship sides. This gap is made worse by the two clubs promoted with us. As they will close that gap. Leaving us in the same bracket as just Oxford United and Portsmouth, who have a season on us for trying to close the gap.

This isn’t a doom and gloom post. As the owners may go for it & double the wage spend or Jones may mould a team capable of punching above its weight with clever scouting & motivation. But we have to recognise the new reality of the Championship. It is why a well run club like Plymouth were punished straight away for one misstep.

Braziliance · May 30

JamAddick said:

This was Portsmouth’s start to the season just gone. Stuck with the manager and ended up securing survival before the final day of the season. All about keeping the faith and sticking with the manager/team

The scary part is, that was an extremely settled Pompey side that cruised to the league 1 title on 97 points and 10 clear of 3rd placed Bolton.

That Pompey side was better than our current one, and the championship looks more difficult next season. I even saw a Leeds fan say "Thank God we aren't among that and got it done".

It's incredibly exciting, but to think we will finish above 18th is insanity to me, especially without seeing new signings.

I hope these owners have deep pockets, cause they're gonna have to take a hit and back Jonesy.

NabySarr · May 30

Woodwork said:

MummysLittleSoldier said:

My overriding memory of the Champ squad last time out was that it was pretty shit and yet we were within a minute of survival. Some names that racked up 10+ appearances:

I know the Champ this year is 'stronger' but the point is, that squad when you read through the list is particularly crap and once you take out Cullen, Gallagher, Taylor (sorry) it becomes laughably bad. Spirit, momentum, good management will carry you pretty far.

That was before the new TV deal. The quality has jumped, because the finances have. Preston NE spend more than double our wage spend & were one of the weak Championship sides. This gap is made worse by the two clubs promoted with us. As they will close that gap. Leaving us in the same bracket as just Oxford United and Portsmouth, who have a season on us for trying to close the gap.

This isn’t a doom and gloom post. As the owners may go for it & double the wage spend or Jones may mould a team capable of punching above its weight with clever scouting & motivation. But we have to recognise the new reality of the Championship. It is why a well run club like Plymouth were punished straight away for one misstep.

Really sums up the problem in football, clubs claim they are financially unsustainable so need more money, they get more money and then just add it straight to the wage bill to try and chase premier league money

Woodwork · May 30

NabySarr said:

Woodwork said:

MummysLittleSoldier said:

My overriding memory of the Champ squad last time out was that it was pretty shit and yet we were within a minute of survival. Some names that racked up 10+ appearances:

I know the Champ this year is 'stronger' but the point is, that squad when you read through the list is particularly crap and once you take out Cullen, Gallagher, Taylor (sorry) it becomes laughably bad. Spirit, momentum, good management will carry you pretty far.

That was before the new TV deal. The quality has jumped, because the finances have. Preston NE spend more than double our wage spend & were one of the weak Championship sides. This gap is made worse by the two clubs promoted with us. As they will close that gap. Leaving us in the same bracket as just Oxford United and Portsmouth, who have a season on us for trying to close the gap.

This isn’t a doom and gloom post. As the owners may go for it & double the wage spend or Jones may mould a team capable of punching above its weight with clever scouting & motivation. But we have to recognise the new reality of the Championship. It is why a well run club like Plymouth were punished straight away for one misstep.

Really sums up the problem in football, clubs claim they are financially unsustainable so need more money, they get more money and then just add it straight to the wage bill to try and chase premier league money

Agreed. But that’s the nature of the beast. Clubs just spunked the extra tv money on wages. The owners will have to do the same to keep up & hope it works. Or stick to their sustainability spiel & hope that works.

ShootersHillGuru · May 30

Accepting as a given that Nathan knows exactly what he’s doing then next season is pretty much very firmly down to the ownership. It depends entirely on where they see their investment going, going forward. Are they content to bounce along up and down as a Championship / League one yo-yo club or is the intention to establish Charlton in The Championship and build to be challenging for promotion to the promised land. I see two massive investment points in that. Getting a squad capable of establishing itself in the second tier and again if promotion was secured to the Premier League. In between it’s a case of sensible year on year progression. The gauntlet has been thrown down by Nathan Jones to the ownership and we’ll see soon enough if they have the foresight and ambition to pick it up. We won’t survive on a wing and a prayer.

DOUCHER · May 30

I maintain that the gap is not as big as people think and are confusing the amount of money in the system with the amount of talent - just because somebody can pay £10m for jay stansfield for instance doesn’t mean he is 20 times better than Marty Godden or 10 times es better than Alfie May - Of course the wage bill is a big indicator of where a team finishes but it’s not an exact science and a manager and recruitment team who can put square pegs in square holes can add massive value

ShootersHillGuru · May 30

I also think that if “the journey” isn’t the one that Nathan thought he was embarking on then he won’t hang around that long. He’s a driven individual and don’t see him being happy standing still or going backwards.

AllHailTheHen · May 30

Staying up, irrespective of where in the table, would be a brilliant achievement.

Not rolling over for Millwall to rub our tummies for once would be really appreciated. Don't think Jones would allow our usual insipid performances in those games.

Chris_from_Sidcup · May 30

Crispywood said:

With the growing gap between championship and L1 lots of stable clubs and hardly any bad championship managers heading into next season 21st place would be a brilliant season, obviously hate to get relegated but we can’t deny we will probably be the favourites to go down

Is there a growing gap though?

There's a big gap between some of the clubs that come down from the PL (the yo-yo ones like Burnley, Leicester, Southampton, Sheff Utd) and the rest, but at the bottom i don't think the gap is that big. This is surely proven by all 3 promoted clubs staying up this season.

If we can stay up, then it's highly likely that all 3 promoted clubs will stay up again.

Scoham · May 30

DOUCHER said:

I maintain that the gap is not as big as people think and are confusing the amount of money in the system with the amount of talent - just because somebody can pay £10m for jay stansfield for instance doesn’t mean he is 20 times better than Marty Godden or 10 times es better than Alfie May - Of course the wage bill is a big indicator of where a team finishes but it’s not an exact science and a manager and recruitment team who can put square pegs in square holes can add massive value

I think we have plenty to do in terms of recruitment but I agree. Stansfield cost that because as a young striker he can be developed and sold for a big profit, or at least help Birmingham win a couple of promotions.

Get recruitment right and we’ll be ok. That’s down to how big a budget the ownership provides and how well we spend it. With the jump in TV money of about £11m I think we could spend more on wages and fees than we expect. While we won’t spend £10m on one player, what we spent in L1 isn’t necessarily an indicator that we’ll be limited to paying small fees at most. A stand out Championship player can be sold for far more than a L1 one, that will probably be part of the thinking when signing players.

Woodwork · May 30

DOUCHER said:

I maintain that the gap is not as big as people think and are confusing the amount of money in the system with the amount of talent - just because somebody can pay £10m for jay stansfield for instance doesn’t mean he is 20 times better than Marty Godden or 10 times es better than Alfie May - Of course the wage bill is a big indicator of where a team finishes but it’s not an exact science and a manager and recruitment team who can put square pegs in square holes can add massive value

True. But the shift in wage structure between the Championship & L1 means that the bar is higher now in terms of squad quality rather than specific individuals. Championship seasons are long & arduous. No promoted club finished higher than 16th. That in itself is a big shift from the past. Portsmouth & Derby County are decent sized clubs. Portsmouth, as Braziliance pointed out, were worthy L1 champions on points total etc. Derby already had a Championship budget. In the past, both could have expected top half finishes, maybe even a run at the Play-offs. Both struggled to make any impact on the division. Derby had to spend big to lure a decent manager away to just about keep them up.

Oxford United are the role models. Small budget, but wily manager who knows how to grind out points.

BigDiddy · May 30

MillwallFan said:

DOUCHER said:

BigDiddy said:

KiwiValley said:

Can we just start the year in minus six and not bother with the Milwall games?.

Stuff Millwall.

agreed although i'd like to point out that its actually 4 points - we lose away - normally to a last minute flukey goal and we draw at home - its a painful curse the gypo community have on us but we do normally win the games that count - we're the play off finals champs and have an fa cup in our locker so on balance, fuck em

Last time we beat you home and away. You’re right though, usually it’s a draw and a win. Amazing feat for tiny Millwall against a footballing giant like Charlton.

We are back…and we would luv it if we beat you, yes luv it……..

objectivecafc · May 30

AllHailTheHen said:

Staying up, irrespective of where in the table, would be a brilliant achievement.

Not rolling over for Millwall to rub our tummies for once would be really appreciated. Don't think Jones would allow our usual insipid performances in those games.

Not being funny but I don't think Bowyers approach to the Millwall games was tepid.

BigDiddy · May 30

MillwallFan said:

DOUCHER said:

BigDiddy said:

KiwiValley said:

Can we just start the year in minus six and not bother with the Milwall games?.

Stuff Millwall.

agreed although i'd like to point out that its actually 4 points - we lose away - normally to a last minute flukey goal and we draw at home - its a painful curse the gypo community have on us but we do normally win the games that count - we're the play off finals champs and have an fa cup in our locker so on balance, fuck em

Last time we beat you home and away. You’re right though, usually it’s a draw and a win. Amazing feat for tiny Millwall against a footballing giant like Charlton.

But you are still painfully boring with nothing about the team, the stadium or its few supporters. You are madly unloved [yes we know you don’t care…] and it probably irks Millwall fans that Charlton has a deeper sense of community and we are a better club. You will never create a club like ours because you still have that dodgy image.

Frankly, even if we drop 6 points against your lot, but stay up next season, most of us would take that.

Our expectations are low, so beware !

Lincsaddick · May 30

Eminem sums it up ..

https://youtu.be/NlmezywdxPI

AddicksAddict · May 30

dicktracey said:

AddicksAddict said:

KiwiValley said:

Can we just start the year in minus six and not bother with the Milwall games?.

-4; the Spanners I know expect a win and a draw.

Isn't that -2 then .... 🤔

Four point lost, just like losing two doesn’t actually put you on -6. Obviously, if we lose two, we’re on zero, and if we lose and draw, we’re on one.

Covered_End_Lad · May 30

MummysLittleSoldier said:

My overriding memory of the Champ squad last time out was that it was pretty shit and yet we were within a minute of survival. Some names that racked up 10+ appearances:

Josh Davison, George Lapslie, Erhun Oztumer, Jake Forster-Caskey

20+ appearances:

Albie Morgan, Deji Oshilaja, Macauley Bonne

And they are just the highlighted players that I think are generally considered amongst fans to be L1 at the very very best. Some other players who Charlton Life seem to debate for eternity just how good they where who also racked up 10+ Championship appearances:

Jason Pearce, Ben Purrington, Adam Matthews, Jonny Williams, Jonathan Leko.

I know the Champ this year is 'stronger' but the point is, that squad when you read through the list is particularly crap and once you take out Cullen, Gallagher, Taylor (sorry) it becomes laughably bad. Spirit, momentum, good management will carry you pretty far.

Our squad RIGHT NOW is probably better equipped for the League than the names who were actually with us for the start of the 2019 season in my opinion, even if the 2019 Wembley side was potentially better than 2025. We had so many kids and pretty bang average L1 players.

There are a lot of transfers to be made but decent loans and a couple of Champ experience players and I think we should be positive to survive, which can be the only expectation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Charlton_Athletic_F.C._season

I agree, I think our Championship squad last time was actually worse than the League one squad we went up with last time - we lost Aribo, Bielik, Bauer etc and replaced with worse. Taylor being out injured for so long didnt help at all.

Championship expectations

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