surely it's time young Pope was given a chance. From watching him in the pre match warm up he's clearly the best keeper at the Club. If he is not given a chance soon we will live to regret it.
Agreed but my spies tell me young goalie in our U7 game against Palace is an even better prospect. We should be looking to the future NOW and blooding him before it's too late and he becomes past his sell by date.
Somebody here mentioned Joe Hart. Now we all know that that cannot happen, but ask yourself if we could by some miracle get him or some other top class keeper in for the rest of this season, would you do it ? If your answer is no, then you should not be hoping for promotion because every team in the World that has ambitions certainly would take any opportunity to improve their team.
We'll bring Scott Carson back to England next season after he cancels his Turkey contract due to not being paid for weeks...
Hamer is okay, obviously a good defence in front of him so he actually doesn't have much to do during a game which might be part of the problem. Alot of keepers look good when they have alot of saves to make something Hamer hasn't had to do this season.
Alot of keepers look good when they have alot of saves to make something Hamer hasn't had to do this season.
exactly , in a crap team a keeper will be kept busy and have a lot more opportunites to makes saves keeping the concentration levels to the max when you haven't a lot to do is the trick for a keeper in a decent team
Granpa - You raise a valid point. In terms of what benefits the club you would expect it to seek to try and bring in the best talent it can afford. That is the nature of the professional game which most players will accept. The balance will always be between the talent you have and the cost/ benefit analysis of bringing in new talent but that does not equate to the assessment of how the talent you have got is contributing to your progress.
We have had this debate before re peoples continual projection of particular performances on one or 2 days as to the future of their career. It is a nonsense. Why do people do it? Especially when the "assessment", more often than not, flies in the face of statistical records. Why debate if Hamer can perform in the Championship as a point of critique of how he performs in League 1? To suggest it is time for a change of keeper on such a basis is nonsense. Why not ask if he is good enough for England?
Has he delivered a contribution this season? Does he continue to deliver a contribution today? On the basis of the results achieved to this point surely the answer has to be yes. I can but return to my comment about having played this game of football. One of the reasons I am happy with Hamer is the performance of the central defenders who in turn set the platform for the full backs. There is a reason we look solid in defence.
Nearly every central defender will give their "eye teeth" for a keeper who makes strong positive decisions no matter how difficult the conditions. As a central defender you badly want the certainty of someone trying to command even if he gets it wrong occasionally - you can and should react accordingly. It is positive defence - Hamer by seeking to take responsibility takes huge pressure off the central defenders. Long may it continue.
Many talented shotstoppers never control their goalmouths and a number never try. Hamer is a work in progress but gives every impression of being determined to develop his game. He has got considerably more right than wrong and played his part in a solid defensive unit (as he appears to have done at Brentford & Exeter). He seems to have been lucky for some time. Conditions against Sheff U were difficult but fortune favours the brave (Grobbelar built a career on it). Many better positioned than I confirm he was fouled for their "goal".
Those who argue statistics are irrelevant are wrong. Some sports contracts are even built on them. I knew a Rugby League player whose contract stipulated the number of hits he had to make in relation to the number of minutes he played. His bonus depended on it.
A lot of analysis now goes into player assessment. I know coaches who log how many times a player passes forward, side ways, backwards, 10, 20, 30 yards, loses possession, tackles, makes forward runs. Is is the definitive answer to how a player has played? No, but such detail is a good basis from which to form an opinion on the contribution a player has made.
By all means have your subjective perception of Hamer but based on how he has performed to date as part of a successful defensive unit he is making a positive contribution. Heaven forbid we just let the guy get on with his job
Granpa - You raise a valid point. In terms of what benefits the club you would expect it to seek to try and bring in the best talent it can afford. That is the nature of the professional game which most players will accept. The balance will always be between the talent you have and the cost/ benefit analysis of bringing in new talent but that does not equate to the assessment of how the talent you have got is contributing to your progress.
We have had this debate before re peoples continual projection of particular performances on one or 2 days as to the future of their career. It is a nonsense. Why do people do it? Especially when the "assessment", more often than not, flies in the face of statistical records. Why debate if Hamer can perform in the Championship as a point of critique of how he performs in League 1? To suggest it is time for a change of keeper on such a basis is nonsense. Why not ask if he is good enough for England?
Has he delivered a contribution this season? Does he continue to deliver a contribution today? On the basis of the results achieved to this point surely the answer has to be yes. I can but return to my comment about having played this game of football. One of the reasons I am happy with Hamer is the performance of the central defenders who in turn set the platform for the full backs. There is a reason we look solid in defence.
Nearly every central defender will give their "eye teeth" for a keeper who makes strong positive decisions no matter how difficult the conditions. As a central defender you badly want the certainty of someone trying to command even if he gets it wrong occasionally - you can and should react accordingly. It is positive defence - Hamer by seeking to take responsibility takes huge pressure off the central defenders. Long may it continue.
Many talented shotstoppers never control their goalmouths and a number never try. Hamer is a work in progress but gives every impression of being determined to develop his game. He has got considerably more right than wrong and played his part in a solid defensive unit (as he appears to have done at Brentford & Exeter). He seems to have been lucky for some time. Conditions against Sheff U were difficult but fortune favours the brave (Grobbelar built a career on it). Many better positioned than I confirm he was fouled for their "goal".
Those who argue statistics are irrelevant are wrong. Some sports contracts are even built on them. I knew a Rugby League player whose contract stipulated the number of hits he had to make in relation to the number of minutes he played. His bonus depended on it.
A lot of analysis now goes into player assessment. I know coaches who log how many times a player passes forward, side ways, backwards, 10, 20, 30 yards, loses possession, tackles, makes forward runs. Is is the definitive answer to how a player has played? No, but such detail is a good basis from which to form an opinion on the contribution a player has made.
By all means have your subjective perception of Hamer but based on how he has performed to date as part of a successful defensive unit he is making a positive contribution. Heaven forbid we just let the guy get on with his job
Grapevine49
How I wish I could have put the argument over so eloquently. But then I am a statistician and not a writer :-(
It was a shocking mistake but I think the important thing is how he reacts to it in the next game. Every keeper makes howlers, the great ones are the ones who don't let it bother them. If you drop a keeper every time he makes a mistake you will shatter his confidence.
A lot of analysis now goes into player assessment. I know coaches who log how many times a player passes forward, side ways, backwards, 10, 20, 30 yards, loses possession, tackles, makes forward runs. Is is the definitive answer to how a player has played? No, but such detail is a good basis from which to form an opinion on the contribution a player has made.
Christ, can you imagine Semedo's sideways pass numbers!?
Solly uncharacteristically (spellcheck) let his player get past him fairly easily to feed their striker, Taylor uncharacteristically lost his man....Hamer uncharacteristically let it slip through his hands....hmmm unusual to see that from our defence
Look at the other top 5 clubs. Would you prefer any of these?
Hudds - Ian Bennett Sheff Weds - Nicky Weaver/Steve Bywater Sheff Utd - Steve Simonsen MK Dons - Dave Martin Stevenage - Chris Day
I wouldnt swap Hamer for any of those!
I suspect we would be in much the same position in the league if we'd started the season with any of those keepers! Looking at their records, virtually all of them played for England at U21 level (Hamer hasn't), which suggests all have a decent level of talent.
Ian Bennett, an experienced (elderly) keeper, is only playing as their young keeper Alex Smithies (one Eng U21 callup) is injured Nicky Weaver - 19 Eng U21 caps, PL experience, not at his best for us it's fair to say Steve Bywater - 6 Eng U21 caps, a decent backup keeper Steve Simonsen - 4 Eng U21 caps, a few PL appearences Dave Martin - Eng U20 cap, has been on bench for Liverpool Chris Day - 5 Eng U21 caps, experienced keeper, has a few games in PL,
Grapevine, some interesting points well made. You may have noticed that I made no comment about Hamer, my point was that if you can get someone better for the rest of the season you would be daft if you didn't. I would take issue with you just on one thing :-
' Hamer by seeking to take responsibility takes huge pressure off the central defenders. Long may it continue.'
I have to point out that frequently when he seeks to take pressure off the defenders, in fact he puts huge pressure on them with his errors. That is why so many people are calling for a change.
surely it's time young Pope was given a chance. From watching him in the pre match warm up he's clearly the best keeper at the Club. If he is not given a chance soon we will live to regret it.
I promised myself I wouldn't come back to this thread...please reassure me Large that this comment is meant as a joke...
In all fairness Hamer is about 10 years off his peak for his position. He will learn by his mistakes. Things like positioning for crosses comes with experience
surely it's time young Pope was given a chance. From watching him in the pre match warm up he's clearly the best keeper at the Club. If he is not given a chance soon we will live to regret it.
I promised myself I wouldn't come back to this thread...please reassure me Large that this comment is meant as a joke..
Comments
They obviously done a lot of scouting to see who they could get in.
Hamer was the best available and fitted in with our ethos of having youngish hungry lower league players wanting to do better.
Look at the other top 5 clubs. Would you prefer any of these?
Hudds - Ian Bennett
Sheff Weds - Nicky Weaver/Steve Bywater
Sheff Utd - Steve Simonsen
MK Dons - Dave Martin
Stevenage - Chris Day
I wouldnt swap Hamer for any of those!
Hamer is okay, obviously a good defence in front of him so he actually doesn't have much to do during a game which might be part of the problem. Alot of keepers look good when they have alot of saves to make something Hamer hasn't had to do this season.
keeping the concentration levels to the max when you haven't a lot to do is the trick for a keeper in a decent team
We have had this debate before re peoples continual projection of particular performances on one or 2 days as to the future of their career. It is a nonsense. Why do people do it? Especially when the "assessment", more often than not, flies in the face of statistical records. Why debate if Hamer can perform in the Championship as a point of critique of how he performs in League 1? To suggest it is time for a change of keeper on such a basis is nonsense. Why not ask if he is good enough for England?
Has he delivered a contribution this season? Does he continue to deliver a contribution today? On the basis of the results achieved to this point surely the answer has to be yes. I can but return to my comment about having played this game of football. One of the reasons I am happy with Hamer is the performance of the central defenders who in turn set the platform for the full backs. There is a reason we look solid in defence.
Nearly every central defender will give their "eye teeth" for a keeper who makes strong positive decisions no matter how difficult the conditions. As a central defender you badly want the certainty of someone trying to command even if he gets it wrong occasionally - you can and should react accordingly. It is positive defence - Hamer by seeking to take responsibility takes huge pressure off the central defenders. Long may it continue.
Many talented shotstoppers never control their goalmouths and a number never try. Hamer is a work in progress but gives every impression of being determined to develop his game. He has got considerably more right than wrong and played his part in a solid defensive unit (as he appears to have done at Brentford & Exeter). He seems to have been lucky for some time. Conditions against Sheff U were difficult but fortune favours the brave (Grobbelar built a career on it). Many better positioned than I confirm he was fouled for their "goal".
Those who argue statistics are irrelevant are wrong. Some sports contracts are even built on them. I knew a Rugby League player whose contract stipulated the number of hits he had to make in relation to the number of minutes he played. His bonus depended on it.
A lot of analysis now goes into player assessment. I know coaches who log how many times a player passes forward, side ways, backwards, 10, 20, 30 yards, loses possession, tackles, makes forward runs. Is is the definitive answer to how a player has played? No, but such detail is a good basis from which to form an opinion on the contribution a player has made.
By all means have your subjective perception of Hamer but based on how he has performed to date as part of a successful defensive unit he is making a positive contribution. Heaven forbid we just let the guy get on with his job
Grapevine49
Solly uncharacteristically (spellcheck) let his player get past him fairly easily to feed their striker, Taylor uncharacteristically lost his man....Hamer uncharacteristically let it slip through his hands....hmmm unusual to see that from our defence
That's all
Ian Bennett, an experienced (elderly) keeper, is only playing as their young keeper Alex Smithies (one Eng U21 callup) is injured
Nicky Weaver - 19 Eng U21 caps, PL experience, not at his best for us it's fair to say
Steve Bywater - 6 Eng U21 caps, a decent backup keeper
Steve Simonsen - 4 Eng U21 caps, a few PL appearences
Dave Martin - Eng U20 cap, has been on bench for Liverpool
Chris Day - 5 Eng U21 caps, experienced keeper, has a few games in PL,
I would take issue with you just on one thing :-
' Hamer by seeking to take responsibility takes huge pressure off the central defenders. Long may it continue.'
I have to point out that frequently when he seeks to take pressure off the defenders, in fact he puts huge pressure on them with his errors. That is why so many people are calling for a change.