I do find it quite funny that Sullivan seems to be getting caned for his Orient performance when the only reason he was on was because Hamer did his party trick of rushing out into no mans land and getting nowhere near the ball
I really really don't get this attitude of - if we are top of the league then clearly all 11 men on the pitch are indivdually excellent.
I suspect those defending him are the same ones who wanted Parky to stay because he would change it around eventually and a new manager might be even worse.
I suspect those attacking him are the same ones who wanted Curbs to go because he had taken us as far as he could and we needed a better manager if we were to get to the next level.
He's a young lad, full of confidence, decent shot stopper (Last night excepted) and is not afraid to come and claim or punch at crosses.
He will make mistakes, but every player on the pitch makes mistakes.
Being a keeper your mistakes will get highlighted as more often than not, they will most likely lead to a goal, whereas with an outfield player, their mistake will rarely be as crucial.
( I bet every one of our outfield players misplaced more than one pass last night, or missed more than one tackle , but we don't all get on here ranting about those do we. It happens every game)
He also seems to have built a pretty good undestanding with the back four, which helps enormously.
Sullivan is half decent at this level but I prefer Hamer and I hope he continues to improve. Now is not the time to change.
@oohahh. Very little between them, in fact Hamer might be better. I dont particularly rate Sullivan and dont particularly want him in the side now, my reasoning is all based on next season in a higher division. However when Sullivan had that little run in the side last year he showed he could hack it.
I always said we would never go up with Elliott in the side but I think we would have done this year, the back 4 protects the keeper very well.
Certainly wouldnt want either next year, hope Powell has his eye on a proven experienced (28-32) stopper.
Hamer is fine for this level, not sure he could have done much about the goal last night. Not sure if he'll be ready to play at Championship level week in week out next season - the mistakes he makes will be punished far more reguarly there, but I guess we'll cross that bridge in the summer.
You gotta be joking he should of took it into his chest and caught it not dropped to his knees
I really really don't get this attitude of - if we are top of the league then clearly all 11 men on the pitch are indivdually excellent.
I suspect those defending him are the same ones who wanted Parky to stay because he would change it around eventually and a new manager might be even worse.
I suspect those attacking him are the same ones who wanted Curbs to go because he had taken us as far as he could and we needed a better manager if we were to get to the next level.
A completely different situation, Curbs had 15 years as the manager, was a legend, and had proved his capabilities - only idiots thought we needed a new manager to take us to 'the next level' Hamer has had half a season, playing in a very good team, with a very good defence at this level, but leaving aside the error yesterday which can happen to any keeper, he does have a more serious weakness against high crosses, a bit like De Gea, highlighted by the Sheffield United game that we were very lucky to win. This article sums it up quite well http://www.kentsportsnews.com/margate-3-4-charlton-athletic-24-01-2012/ What Hamer needs to improve on, is dealing with crosses and the physical aspect of the game. Conditions were difficult on Saturday, a swirling wind is hated by the men with the gloves, but Steve Sorensen dealt with it. Hamer flapped, missed the ball completely and seemed fortunate to get a decision in his favour when he dropped the ball into his own goal.
He does not like big strikers who enjoy ‘letting him know they are there’. His discomfort with being ‘roughed up’ is patently obvious and opponents will play on it. Sheffield United had practiced all week to create the situation that led to Hamer’s error.
Here’s what Blades skipper, Michael Doyle, told the Sheffield Star:
“We couldn’t understand why it (the goal) wasn’t given. That was something we’d been working on all week – getting the ball in close to the keeper – and without being disrespectful to their lad you could see he struggled with it all afternoon.”
Chris Powell and the others in the coaching setup see the players every single day. They watch how they train and you can be sure that they put the keepers through their paces just like the outfield players. We only see one keeper at a time and then for just 90 minutes. If CP really thought that Sullivan would bring something extra to the defence he would have played him. He might yet do so but I'll accept his judgement that Hamer is better at present.
I really really don't get this attitude of - if we are top of the league then clearly all 11 men on the pitch are indivdually excellent.
I suspect those defending him are the same ones who wanted Parky to stay because he would change it around eventually and a new manager might be even worse.
I suspect those attacking him are the same ones who wanted Curbs to go because he had taken us as far as he could and we needed a better manager if we were to get to the next level.
A completely different situation, Curbs had 15 years as the manager, was a legend, and had proved his capabilities - only idiots thought we needed a new manager to take us to 'the next level' Hamer has had half a season, playing in a very good team, with a very good defence at this level, but leaving aside the error yesterday which can happen to any keeper, he does have a more serious weakness against high crosses, a bit like De Gea, highlighted by the Sheffield United game that we were very lucky to win. This article sums it up quite well http://www.kentsportsnews.com/margate-3-4-charlton-athletic-24-01-2012/ What Hamer needs to improve on, is dealing with crosses and the physical aspect of the game. Conditions were difficult on Saturday, a swirling wind is hated by the men with the gloves, but Steve Sorensen dealt with it. Hamer flapped, missed the ball completely and seemed fortunate to get a decision in his favour when he dropped the ball into his own goal.
He does not like big strikers who enjoy ‘letting him know they are there’. His discomfort with being ‘roughed up’ is patently obvious and opponents will play on it. Sheffield United had practiced all week to create the situation that led to Hamer’s error.
Here’s what Blades skipper, Michael Doyle, told the Sheffield Star:
“We couldn’t understand why it (the goal) wasn’t given. That was something we’d been working on all week – getting the ball in close to the keeper – and without being disrespectful to their lad you could see he struggled with it all afternoon.”
Hamer hates big strikers does he? What's Jon Parkin then? He's the biggest, most physical striker around at this level and Hamer completely dominated him in the match against hudds Seems it doesn't matter what Ben does, people will take one isolated incident and claim it as evidence of a weakness in his game, rather than a one-off mistake
We get that you went to Orient, have a medal. But, you know it was on TV, and something I got out of the coverage. Not sure if you're aware but we had 10 men on the park, due to a man getting sent off so, Sullivan probably faced more pressure than has been in the case. True, he didn't have a great game, but I think most people who are trying to have a debate aren't trying to suggest that Sully is the answer or that Hamer is complete rubbish or any of the other infantile points that any discussion on here descends into (example if you criticise Hamer you wanted Curbs out - good grief).
Anyway, if watching games live is the only criteria for reasonable judgement I suspect I've seen a few every one of Hamer's home games and a couple away. Personally I think he's looked the weakest link for a while and has gotten away with having a team in front of them that defends well and scores a few.
We're top of the league, 10 points clear with a goal diff of +33. Our keepers conceded 1 league goal in Jan. What's the problem here exactly?! We're playing in div 1. Realistically how much better a keeper are we likely to get for the wages we pay?? He'll improve if he plays, is there a better option at the club?
The Sheff Utd game wasn't one incident, it was a mare from start to finish, one of the worst I've seen from a Charlton keeper (I'm thinking Tony Caig here) or as one blog described it possibly the worst performance that ever won a clean sheet I'm not saying he should be dropped because of that, just pointing out that statistics can be misleading, and that our recent run of clean sheets doesn't mean that our keeper has been in stunning form and is undroppable.
Because of the alternative (Sullivan) I don't think it's the time to change Hamar now. Not that I think Sullivan is bad but I don't think he would be any better than Hamar and there isn't anyone else. CP knows what is going on and he has next season in the Championship firmly in his mind. If there are any any weaknesses he will address them. That's his job and he's done ok up to now.
I've read a lot on here about Hamer "flapping" at crosses. It seems to be the trendy comment to make this week, but I can't say I've noticed it myself. What he does do is punch the ball a lot, but that's not the same thing. It seems to me that he makes a conscious decision that punching the ball is a better option to clear and then goes ahead with it. That's not flapping - that's good decision making.
Sullivan was like a rabbit in the headlights at orient when he came on and I saw nothing to think he would be better than ben
ben has saved more points than cost
BWP Yann Hollands Stephens Solly Morrow green waggy
have all missed more chances than goals they have scored would you swap them all, if you mean give ben a couple of games rest then maybe if you mean for the remaining 18 swap for sullivan you must be mental
Hamer cost us at Orient, poor against Sheff Utd and could have done better last night but he is still quiet young and probably played less than 100 games but has promise.....made a great save on debut against Reading, claimed 5 or 6 crosses against Huddersfield, saved the only shot on target against sheff u and won us 2 points at exeter to name but a few. Stick with the kid as he has potential, this is where Ben Roberts should earn his money and work on his weakness on the training pitch.
'Let me think, we've got the best defensive record in the division, and the recent wins over our Sheffield rivals were down to great defensive displays from our back 5 - hmmm I'll drop the keeper!'
Until anyone shows me a 24 year old (or any age for that matter) goalkeeper who has no weaknesses in his game at this level I will stay with the opinion Hamer is our number 1 and will only get better.
Because Dean Kiely never used to flap at crosses or have dog distribution did he?
Hamer has been given too many chances as far as im concerned, he flaps on crosses, make too many erratic decisions and im not really quite sure what he was doing for there goal last night. Im well aware he has not conceded too many goals this season but i think thats largely down to the 4 infront of him. Powell has shown that he can be ruthless with team selection this season so hurry up and give Sullivan the chance he deserves!
Don't expect to offer an opinion and not be told you don't know what you're talking about.
It's like saying we should have put Simon Royce in goal after Deano threw that one in against Swindon.
Hamer is alright, young and will get better, he made a boo boo, shit happens, just deal with it and move on
Agreed. If Hamer can cut his teeth at this level he has the opportunity to develop with the squad. whilst at times the defence 'may' be helping him more than necessary at times, he is our keeper in the best defence (goals conceded) this club has ever known. If Powell wanted to change him he wouldn't be on the pitch. When signing virtually anyone he wanted over the last 12 months, the goalkeeping position must have crossed his mind!
And it was great to see Deano walk on the pitch away at Bury. Much man love in the ground that day from both sets of fans.
Until anyone shows me a 24 year old (or any age for that matter) goalkeeper who has no weaknesses in his game at this level I will stay with the opinion Hamer is our number 1 and will only get better.
Because Dean Kiely never used to flap at crosses or have dog distribution did he?
I would love to know the stats on the amount of saves he has made to keep us in front this season. Probably won us a few points I would say. And when did Manuel Neuer play 3rd division football in Germany?
Until anyone shows me a 24 year old (or any age for that matter) goalkeeper who has no weaknesses in his game at this level I will stay with the opinion Hamer is our number 1 and will only get better.
Because Dean Kiely never used to flap at crosses or have dog distribution did he?
That's of course Germany's number 1 goalkeeper there, displaying some weakness. Your comparison was ludicrous anyway because an £18 million goalkeeper who plays for the best team in the country and kept net in the World Cup hardly counts as 'at this level', but I thought I'd point out that the best make costly mistakes as well. It's sort of part of being a keeper. In a way I'm glad Hamer's being made the scapegoat. After dropping an enormous 2 points this year someone had to hang, at least he won't take any notice of the pelters
For those bleating about Hamer..........yes, you are entitled to criticise, just as the opposite opinions are valid. The Gamer knockers, however, have nothing to back themselves up, other than the fact that Hamer has proven he is a 'normal' keeper and has made a couple of errors. The stats lie with the pro Hamer opinions. As for opinions tbat Hamer isn't good enough to play higher than League one.........does it matter atvthe moment? The knockers need to spend more time enjoyingbthe ride instead of micro moaning.
Hamer is a better keeper than Sulivan and should remain in goal. If Sulivan had put some good performances this season then I might be able to understand this argument.
We're having a great season, stop looking for negatives and picking holes. Sit back and enjoy the season, how often do you get to do that as a Charlton fan?
Hamer saved us the victory last saturday against Exeter, fair enough the goal yesterday was stoppable last night. He is clearly a better keeper then Sullivan, whose kicking was shakey against Fulham and IMO could have been quicker coming off his line a number of times. Alternating goalkeepers doesn't do anything for the side, most likely would damage Hamers confidence and disrupt the defence... De Gea, United anyone? Do not want to put our title chances in jeapardy with needless changes. BTW, don't think the sarcastic clapping from some in the North Upper when Hamer caught a cross on Tuesday was very constructive either.
surely it's time young Pope was given a chance. From watching him in the pre match warm up he's clearly the best keeper at the Club. If he is not given a chance soon we will live to regret it.
Comments
His antics that night probably cost us a point
He's a young lad, full of confidence, decent shot stopper (Last night excepted) and is not afraid to come and claim or punch at crosses.
He will make mistakes, but every player on the pitch makes mistakes.
Being a keeper your mistakes will get highlighted as more often than not, they will most likely lead to a goal, whereas with an outfield player, their mistake will rarely be as crucial.
( I bet every one of our outfield players misplaced more than one pass last night, or missed more than one tackle , but we don't all get on here ranting about those do we. It happens every game)
He also seems to have built a pretty good undestanding with the back four, which helps enormously.
Sullivan is half decent at this level but I prefer Hamer and I hope he continues to improve.
Now is not the time to change.
Grapevine 49, totally agree.
I always said we would never go up with Elliott in the side but I think we would have done this year, the back 4 protects the keeper very well.
Certainly wouldnt want either next year, hope Powell has his eye on a proven experienced (28-32) stopper.
Hamer has had half a season, playing in a very good team, with a very good defence at this level, but leaving aside the error yesterday which can happen to any keeper, he does have a more serious weakness against high crosses, a bit like De Gea, highlighted by the Sheffield United game that we were very lucky to win. This article sums it up quite well
http://www.kentsportsnews.com/margate-3-4-charlton-athletic-24-01-2012/
What Hamer needs to improve on, is dealing with crosses and the physical aspect of the game. Conditions were difficult on Saturday, a swirling wind is hated by the men with the gloves, but Steve Sorensen dealt with it. Hamer flapped, missed the ball completely and seemed fortunate to get a decision in his favour when he dropped the ball into his own goal.
He does not like big strikers who enjoy ‘letting him know they are there’. His discomfort with being ‘roughed up’ is patently obvious and opponents will play on it. Sheffield United had practiced all week to create the situation that led to Hamer’s error.
Here’s what Blades skipper, Michael Doyle, told the Sheffield Star:
“We couldn’t understand why it (the goal) wasn’t given. That was something we’d been working on all week – getting the ball in close to the keeper – and without being disrespectful to their lad you could see he struggled with it all afternoon.”
Anyway, if watching games live is the only criteria for reasonable judgement I suspect I've seen a few every one of Hamer's home games and a couple away. Personally I think he's looked the weakest link for a while and has gotten away with having a team in front of them that defends well and scores a few.
I'm out now, all this depresses me.
Our keepers conceded 1 league goal in Jan. What's the problem here exactly?!
We're playing in div 1. Realistically how much better a keeper are we likely to get for the wages we pay??
He'll improve if he plays, is there a better option at the club?
possibly the worst performance that ever won a clean sheet
I'm not saying he should be dropped because of that, just pointing out that statistics can be misleading, and that our recent run of clean sheets doesn't mean that our keeper has been in stunning form and is undroppable.
Sullivan was like a rabbit in the headlights at orient when he came on and I saw nothing to think he would be better than ben
ben has saved more points than cost
BWP
Yann
Hollands
Stephens
Solly
Morrow
green
waggy
have all missed more chances than goals they have scored would you swap them all, if you mean give ben a couple of games rest then maybe if you mean for the remaining 18 swap for sullivan you must be mental
Great managers some of you would make...!
Because Dean Kiely never used to flap at crosses or have dog distribution did he?
And it was great to see Deano walk on the pitch away at Bury. Much man love in the ground that day from both sets of fans.
Neuer
...
That's of course Germany's number 1 goalkeeper there, displaying some weakness. Your comparison was ludicrous anyway because an £18 million goalkeeper who plays for the best team in the country and kept net in the World Cup hardly counts as 'at this level', but I thought I'd point out that the best make costly mistakes as well. It's sort of part of being a keeper. In a way I'm glad Hamer's being made the scapegoat. After dropping an enormous 2 points this year someone had to hang, at least he won't take any notice of the pelters
We're having a great season, stop looking for negatives and picking holes. Sit back and enjoy the season, how often do you get to do that as a Charlton fan?
BTW, don't think the sarcastic clapping from some in the North Upper when Hamer caught a cross on Tuesday was very constructive either.