The thing is we don't let in a lot of goals and the back 4 and Hamer (usually) do a good job together.
If you take Hamer and Sullivan in isolation you may have a point but it is a team game and the team are getting the results. Therefore Hamer remains number 1 for me at the moment.
If your using that theory that we shouldnt drop him because we are winning games, then i suppose you disagree with green coming in for waggy, kerm coming in for hayes, stephens coming in for pritchard
A defence and goalkeeper work as a unit.
Yes actually I disagreed with all the changes you mention at the time as I felt the dropped players were doing well in a winning side but SCP knows better and he keeps hamer in!
A striker misses three open goals but scores a hatrick. We lose 4-3.
A keeper lets one through his legs but saves three pens in the game (none of which he gives away). We lose 1-0.
Which one is the likely candidate for the boo boys?
Sorry but this is totally missing the point. Hamer was not just shit last night. He is shit.
I am amazed that people continue to defend him, and just look at statistics as if that proves he's brilliant. Actually WATCH him and you will see.
Yep and he's been so bad this season that we have the best defensive goal to game ratio out of every one of the 92 clubs.
But none of that is down to Hamer and had we had say Hart and could afford to pay him £100K a week we might have an even better record.
In the land of the blind the one eyed goalie is king.
Thanks for responding to me pointing out that stastics alone don't tell the story by using statistics.
No problem. I note that you haven't responded regarding the understanding the keeper enjoys with the defence.
But don't let the facts get in the way.
When we start losing games and it is down to him he should be dropped. If and when we go up and he proves not good enough he should be replaced. But why disrupt a successful unit? The two games we did that (Hamer sending off and "resting" of Solly) we lost.
Perfectly happy with Hamer as things are at present. I will say though that there's one or two things he needs to improve if he's to move on to a higher level i.e Championship League....distribution and crosses for a start. Good shot stopper but not yet the finished article. Certainly wouldn't even consider dropping him as things are right now...really how could you!
Bit harsh this thread. I think he is a good keeper and will only get better. So what he flaps, Elliot could not save long range or low shots for toffee. Deano made the odd error. Sullivan looked dodge when he came on against Orient.
No problems about this season, I'm not convinced Hamer (at the moment) would be up to Championship football. Yes, we haven't let many goals in, but how many saves has he had to make this season? Either we've dominated games, or our defence have been in full control, so in most games he hasn't had much to do, but he does look a bit suspect on crosses, and his handling can be dodgy (e.g. dropping the ball into the net vs Sheffield Utd)
The way I see it is that Sullivan is at best equally good as Hamer, certainly not better, it would be a change for change's sake. Stephens for Pritchard = passing over energy, and Pritchard for all his attributes would never score that goal, Kermorgant over Hayes, better control, better vision, physically more imposing, an improvement in every way. Not the same thing at all. Swapping keepers would only serve to force the outstanding back four to have to readjust to a different style.
Obviously none of the Hamer detractors were at Orient. No surprise there. Don't you lot realise that keepers at 24 are still learning their trade? From where dud we pick up this new breed of "supporters" that mindlessly slag off young players, and then whine that "criticism" is a good thing? criticism is only a good thing when it is constructive and given with a modicum of knowledge of the subject
If your using that theory that we shouldnt drop him because we are winning games, then i suppose you disagree with green coming in for waggy, kerm coming in for hayes, stephens coming in for pritchard
A defence and goalkeeper work as a unit.
Yes actually I disagreed with all the changes you mention at the time as I felt the dropped players were doing well in a winning side but SCP knows better and he keeps hamer in!
This, end of, top of the league by 10 points, moan about it only if we miss out on promotion from such a strong position.
I have always said that if you watch MOTD every week you will always find Premiership keepers making errors - it happens at all levels. Maybe Man City should drop Joe Hart - he has made a couple recently? Hamer is a decent keeper who is young and could develop into a very good keeper - we are 10 points clear at the top of the league with the best defensive record in the country - Yes this is a forum where people are free to air their views, but it doesn't mean we can't treat some of those views with total disbelief and contempt!!!
Just logged on and seen this thread, 72 replies so far so not got around to reading them. Was wondering when the boo boys would pick their next scape-goat as we've not had one in a while...................
I personally have no problem with Hamer. He's a good young keeper who makes the odd error. If he didn't, do people really think he'd be playing for us in L1?
Think some people here need to get to grips with reality.
Obviously none of the Hamer detractors were at Orient. No surprise there. Don't you lot realise that keepers at 24 are still learning their trade? From where dud we pick up this new breed of "supporters" that mindlessly slag off young players, and then whine that "criticism" is a good thing? criticism is only a good thing when it is constructive and given with a modicum of knowledge of the subject
Precisely and it is why Premier League Managers tend to opt for proven, experienced, keepers.
Given, Robinson, Jasskeleinen, Schwarzer, Sorensen, Howard, Kenny and Friedel are all well into their 30's and in the case of Friedel, 40. Cech, Foster, Reina, Gordon and Vorm are all close to 30.
Look at Man Utd - Van de Saar retires and Fergie can't buy a first choice keeper. Arsenal have been looking to bring one through for 5 seasons.
Just logged on and seen this thread, 72 replies so far so not got around to reading them. Was wondering when the boo boys would pick their next scape-goat as we've not had one in a while...................
I personally have no problem with Hamer. He's a good young keeper who makes the odd error. If he didn't, do people really think he'd be playing for us in L1?
Think some people here need to get to grips with reality.
Nobody has booed Hamer. They are just expressing an opinion and considering the amount of people on this thread who think he is not good enough for the championship they may just have a point.
our problem is getting goals not conceding them: FACT
Exactly!
10 points clear and we're still whinging! I'd have taken where we are at the moment back in the Summer , other clubs in this division would love to be in our position.
Obviously none of the Hamer detractors were at Orient. No surprise there. Don't you lot realise that keepers at 24 are still learning their trade? From where dud we pick up this new breed of "supporters" that mindlessly slag off young players, and then whine that "criticism" is a good thing? criticism is only a good thing when it is constructive and given with a modicum of knowledge of the subject
what are you going on about? Voicing an opinon over a fans forum is not 'mindlessly slag off young players'. Its what the forum is for.
This thread is a massive overreation. To replace Hamer with Sullivan at this stage is pointless. Hamer is the better keeper That being said, I do believe in the championship we will need a better keeper.
Bloody hell. It's always something isn't it. The difference between hamer and Sullivan is two-fold - distribution and confidence. Hamer's kicking is generally on target and at times sublime The kick against Carlisle that got us a goal stands out the most, but one of the reasons Yann wins so many headers in the air is because the ball goes exactly where he needs it to. Sullivan's kicking is poor, sometimes against Orient his kicks didn't clear the ground which is very dangerous. In terms of confidence, Hamer goes for everything, which isn't always helpful but it really makes attackers think twice knowing the keeper's going to be flying through the air for every high ball. Sullivan isn't very confident - he doesn't come for many high balls, and he looked terrified everytime Orient broke forward. His yelling at the defence all the time is often to cover up for his own nerves. They're both decent keepers, but hamer shades it.
Anyone thinking a team top of the league by ten points got there with a 'crap' keeper as some have been saying is sadly an idiot. No defence is good enough to cover for a rubbish keeper - look at Man Utd with de Gea or Arsenal with Almunia/Fabianski.
But...what if Hamers confidence is dropping, there might be a man management issue here, also if players start to lose faith in the keeper they will be defending more and not getting up the other end to score? Right kids?
Has he cost us more points than he has won for us Has he cost us more points than our strikers and midfielders have cost us in missed chances If you answer yes to the above then lets change him if you answer no then there is your answer also
You have to add another question though - Is the replacement option better? Some on here always think the replacement is better- despite there being sufficient evidence to the contrary - especially when it comes to keepers - they have previous.
Obviously none of the Hamer detractors were at Orient. No surprise there. Don't you lot realise that keepers at 24 are still learning their trade? From where dud we pick up this new breed of "supporters" that mindlessly slag off young players, and then whine that "criticism" is a good thing? criticism is only a good thing when it is constructive and given with a modicum of knowledge of the subject
Precisely and it is why Premier League Managers tend to opt for proven, experienced, keepers.
Given, Robinson, Jasskeleinen, Schwarzer, Sorensen, Howard, Kenny and Friedel are all well into their 30's and in the case of Friedel, 40. Cech, Foster, Reina, Gordon and Vorm are all close to 30.
Look at Man Utd - Van de Saar retires and Fergie can't buy a first choice keeper. Arsenal have been looking to bring one through for 5 seasons.
In case you haven't noticed, the salary budget of a Third Division club is just ever so slightly smaller than that of a Premier league club.
I'm sorry but i'm fed up of people being so negative! We are top for god sake. We've kept more clean sheets than i remember in a long time.
Sorry every single player in the squad is amazing. Better?
No but you start a thread saying we need a change in goal when we havent lost since new years eve and let in 1 goal.
You haven't properly backed up your statement, only by saying Sullivan should be in goal but being very honest, Sullivan hasnt looked better than Hamer.
On the subject of negativity, fella in the East about 4 rows behind me last must of shouted "oohhh get him off!" towards Green, Clarke and Stephens a few times, and also said "oh hear we go, long ball" a few times when the ball was at Solly and Morrison's feet. Must of not checked the table or been to a game this season...
Comments
A defence and goalkeeper work as a unit.
Yes actually I disagreed with all the changes you mention at the time as I felt the dropped players were doing well in a winning side but SCP knows better and he keeps hamer in!
But don't let the facts get in the way.
When we start losing games and it is down to him he should be dropped. If and when we go up and he proves not good enough he should be replaced. But why disrupt a successful unit? The two games we did that (Hamer sending off and "resting" of Solly) we lost.
I will say though that there's one or two things he needs to improve if he's to move on to a higher level i.e Championship League....distribution and crosses for a start.
Good shot stopper but not yet the finished article.
Certainly wouldn't even consider dropping him as things are right now...really how could you!
I stay stick with Hammer and get behind him
From where dud we pick up this new breed of "supporters" that mindlessly slag off young players, and then whine that "criticism" is a good thing? criticism is only a good thing when it is constructive and given with a modicum of knowledge of the subject
Seems very commited, no way should he be dropped.
I personally have no problem with Hamer. He's a good young keeper who makes the odd error. If he didn't, do people really think he'd be playing for us in L1?
Think some people here need to get to grips with reality.
Given, Robinson, Jasskeleinen, Schwarzer, Sorensen, Howard, Kenny and Friedel are all well into their 30's and in the case of Friedel, 40. Cech, Foster, Reina, Gordon and Vorm are all close to 30.
Look at Man Utd - Van de Saar retires and Fergie can't buy a first choice keeper. Arsenal have been looking to bring one through for 5 seasons.
10 points clear and we're still whinging! I'd have taken where we are at the moment back in the Summer , other clubs in this division would love to be in our position.
what are you going on about? Voicing an opinon over a fans forum is not 'mindlessly slag off young players'. Its what the forum is for.
This is a forum . Remember that.
Anyone thinking a team top of the league by ten points got there with a 'crap' keeper as some have been saying is sadly an idiot. No defence is good enough to cover for a rubbish keeper - look at Man Utd with de Gea or Arsenal with Almunia/Fabianski.
Has he cost us more points than he has won for us
Has he cost us more points than our strikers and midfielders have cost us in missed chances
If you answer yes to the above then lets change him
if you answer no then there is your answer also
So no it is not time to change keeper IMO
this isn't a robbie v randy situation
I'm sorry but i'm fed up of people being so negative! We are top for god sake. We've kept more clean sheets than i remember in a long time.
Sorry every single player in the squad is amazing. Better?
In case you haven't noticed, the salary budget of a Third Division club is just ever so slightly smaller than that of a Premier league club.
No but you start a thread saying we need a change in goal when we havent lost since new years eve and let in 1 goal.
You haven't properly backed up your statement, only by saying Sullivan should be in goal but being very honest, Sullivan hasnt looked better than Hamer.
Sorry pal but your just another negative norris!