I work with a guy who is in a civil partnershp with a Championship footballer. All his teamates are aware he's gay - he just doesn't want to be open about it, mainly because of the abuse he know's he'll get from the terraces.
That seems very odd. Gay blokes moaned and protested for years for there gay relationships to be public and the law was changed to allow gay civil partnerships. Now addickted is telling us about his work colleague who is a gay civil partnership with a gay championship footballer, but the whole thing is some sort of state secret as the happy participants in this gay union are scared that people might find out!
Why does it seem odd that some individuals do not wish to behave in the same way that other individuals do Smudge? Why should Addickted's friend not do exactly what he wants with his life, just because others chose to campaign in the past? If you choose not to vote why would I consider you to be "very odd" because of the struggle the chartists had to gain you that right to vote?
I think the sentence: "He just doesn't want to be open about it, mainly because of the abuse he knows he'll get from the terraces." is explanation enough really.
Algarve, he is being open about it. The gay footballer and Addickteds gay mate have told there work colleagues about there civil partnership and are clearly not worried about others finding out.
If the gay footballer was so concerned about being called names from the stand, he wouldn't civil partnership his gay mate and wouldn't have told people about it.
Incidentally why does the spouse of a well paid championship footballer work? Surely they have enough money to go shopping, beauty treatment and enjoy musical theatre all day.
I am getting the wind up element here, smudge, although if you were playing the same games regarding race I think you would have been banned by now, but that's neither here nor there. But back to the point, he is open about it to a few friends and family, why should he do anything further than that if he does not want to. As has been repeated twice, he may not want abuse from the terraces, simple as that?
I work with a guy who is in a civil partnershp with a Championship footballer. All his teamates are aware he's gay - he just doesn't want to be open about it, mainly because of the abuse he know's he'll get from the terraces.
That seems very odd. Gay blokes moaned and protested for years for there gay relationships to be public and the law was changed to allow gay civil partnerships. Now addickted is telling us about his work colleague who is a gay civil partnership with a gay championship footballer, but the whole thing is some sort of state secret as the happy participants in this gay union are scared that people might find out!
Why does it seem odd that some individuals do not wish to behave in the same way that other individuals do Smudge? Why should Addickted's friend not do exactly what he wants with his life, just because others chose to campaign in the past? If you choose not to vote why would I consider you to be "very odd" because of the struggle the chartists had to gain you that right to vote?
I think the sentence: "He just doesn't want to be open about it, mainly because of the abuse he knows he'll get from the terraces." is explanation enough really.
Algarve, he is being open about it. The gay footballer and Addickteds gay mate have told there work colleagues about there civil partnership and are clearly not worried about others finding out.
If the gay footballer was so concerned about being called names from the stand, he wouldn't civil partnership his gay mate and wouldn't have told people about it.
Incidentally why does the spouse of a well paid championship footballer work? Surely they have enough money to go shopping, beauty treatment and enjoy musical theatre all day.
I am getting the wind up element here, smudge, although if you were playing the same games regarding race I think you would have been banned by now, but that's neither here nor there. But back to the point, he is open about it to a few friends and family, why should he do anything further than that if he does not want to. As has been repeated twice, he may not want abuse from the terraces, simple as that?
I hope you aren't actually expecting a reasonable response !
I can't really believe that Smudges obvious wind ups about the partners of gay footballers are getting more attention that LenGlovers very serious posts about some people deserving abuse.
Feels like there is a wind-up relay team that take it in turns to pass the baton round every couple of months. No idea why you changed from your user name, and I notice you've avoided all Curb It's attempts to get your sponsorship pledge out of you. Be grateful if others can avoid taking it at a tangent, ta.
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Interesting debate, and approach with the laces. From what I understand *most* football changing rooms and footballers in general have changed dramatically over the last 20 years. It wasn't that long ago when the crazy gang was in full flow and bullies like Wally Downes would take the mickey out of a team mates wife for having cancer. In that respect, the game has moved on a hell of a long way in a short space of time and I think the foreign influx and increased professionalism has had a lot to do with it. Additionally, if you saw the Liverpool doc last year you would see just what a sterile environment the dressing room can now be, and how gormless and quiet your average footballer can be these days.
So footballers and the dressing room are no longer a problem. I would expect a lot of players to know at least half a dozen pros who are gay, and the fact it is kept in house is a testament to how the game has evolved.
The issue 100% is with crowd reaction, and the ongoing society stick they would get for coming out. And I don't blame them. If I was a current pro and gay, I wouldnt come out. Nothing really to gain.
Can someone tell me the tax break these married copules get, as I am not aware I am getting them.
Just like anything in our tax system it's not the simplest of systems and seeing as I'm not married I've never looked into it myself, but married couples or couples in a civil partnership are entitled to Married Couple's Allowance
Edit, I've just realised it's only entitled for people born before 1935, now maths isn't my strong point but I doubt there are many professional footballers of that age, gay or otherwise.
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
Why do you draw the line at race but not sexuality ? Genuine question as I see them both as parts of people's lives over which they have no control.
I think smudge is on a wind up really, and enjoys getting a reaction from people he/she may assume read the Guardian. Luckily smudge seems to be in the minority here.
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
where do I begin... By announce to the world do you mean hold hands with your partner, or just be seen in public with them whilst clearly being a couple? Much like heterosexual couples? I bet your sexuality isn't private, by which I don't mean the details of your sex life.
Especially in the PL, where most grounds are pretty sterile, and players come from every country and culture under the sun, would the abuse really be that bad?
There might be more abuse on social media, though that's easily avoided by not having a public twitter account...
In a funny way, a good reason for not coming out is that you'd become a massive media sensation, swamped with interviews, being lauded all the time as a role model, and generally being distracted from doing what you want to do, which is play football.
I think smudge is on a wind up really, and enjoys getting a reaction from people he/she may assume read the Guardian. Luckily smudge seems to be in the minority here.
Well having mentioned it in the first place I've now realised my statement about tax breaks was wrong and he seems to have gone quiet. While I may be red in the face for not being completely up to date on my tax law, I think he might be slightly redder for his ludicrous stream of comments.
im 14 and one thing i noticed is no one comes out at school because if they do they might aswell commit suicide, people have "banter" with me for being fat and ginger so imagine if someone said they were gay. if someone came out i would stand up for them, i dont liek people saying faggot either. I hear that loads at skool, not to mention the jew goal or u jew
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
Why do you draw the line at race but not sexuality ? Genuine question as I see them both as parts of people's lives over which they have no control.
By looking at a person I can tell whether they are of a different race. I cannot tell their sexuality. People do not advertise their race, it is there for all to see. I do not see the need for anyone to have to advertise their sexuality, it's up to them how they live their private lives. It's not my business and I don't care, I go to a match to admire their footballing abilities. Is this the new social media age where the world has to know everything that happens in ones private life?
Consider the action of a teacher if one 14 year old says in the classroom to another 14 year old something like 'what's it got to do with you anyway, you're gay?'. How exactly should that situation be handled. Not at all an easy scenario.
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
where do I begin... By announce to the world do you mean hold hands with your partner, or just be seen in public with them whilst clearly being a couple? Much like heterosexual couples? I bet your sexuality isn't private, by which I don't mean the details of your sex life.
Well the idea of the Rainbow laces is to encourage footballers to come out and announce to the footballing public that they are gay, is it not? Why? That's what I don't get. It's nobody's business. Heterosexuals aren't encouraged to admit they prefer the opposite sex, so why all this "sing if your glad to be gay" crap, all the mardi gras parades etc. Why are homosexuals so keen to encourage other homosexuals to go public. I've got two good mates who are gay, they've never told me or even discussed it with me, but of course when they are with their respective partners it's quite obvious. I'm sure if they happened to be professional footballers, they wouldn't feel the need to tell the footballing public or the media that they were gay.
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
where do I begin... By announce to the world do you mean hold hands with your partner, or just be seen in public with them whilst clearly being a couple? Much like heterosexual couples? I bet your sexuality isn't private, by which I don't mean the details of your sex life.
Well the idea of the Rainbow laces is to encourage footballers to come out and announce to the footballing public that they are gay, is it not? Why? That's what I don't get. It's nobody's business. Heterosexuals aren't encouraged to admit they prefer the opposite sex, so why all this "sing if your glad to be gay" crap, all the mardi gras parades etc. Why are homosexuals so keen to encourage other homosexuals to go public. I've got two good mates who are gay, they've never told me or even discussed it with me, but of course when they are with their respective partners it's quite obvious. I'm sure if they happened to be professional footballers, they wouldn't feel the need to tell the footballing public or the media that they were gay.
Because for so long it has been socially unacceptable to be gay, and there are still some people who believe being gay is immoral/unnatural. Obviously, the same has never been said about being heterosexual. If people can publicly show that gay people are no different from straight people other than their sexuality, then I can't see what's wrong with that.
queensland, I posed a question above about an imaginary classroom incident. How do you think it should be tackled/ Should the incident simply be ignored, and we pretend it wouldn't happen?
Also, the players wouldn't be wearing the rainbow laces if they are gay, but as a show of support to gay footballers, so it's hardly announcing that they are gay
Consider the action of a teacher if one 14 year old says in the classroom to another 14 year old something like 'what's it got to do with you anyway, you're gay?'. How exactly should that situation be handled. Not at all an easy scenario.
When my youngest was that sort of age "gay" was frequently used as a general insult without any sexual connotation whatsoever so as a teacher I'd need to establish the context of the comment.
Len, establishing the context of the comment would open a whole new level of difficulty, yet ignoring it would do the same. In terms of handling it in context there is virtually no form of words you could use that would come out right, nor any actions either. The 'general insult' in my scenario may be simply called a statement of fact by the speaker. Either way, there is underneath all of this stuff a sense that some people think that gay people ought to be ashamed of who they are, which is one of the motivations for the celebrations queensland alludes to. A lot of gay pride celebrations are about refusing to feel the shame that some folk want to push onto gay people.
im 14 and one thing i noticed is no one comes out at school because if they do they might aswell commit suicide, people have "banter" with me for being fat and ginger so imagine if someone said they were gay. if someone came out i would stand up for them, i dont liek people saying faggot either. I hear that loads at skool, not to mention the jew goal or u jew
im 14 and one thing i noticed is no one comes out at school because if they do they might aswell commit suicide, people have "banter" with me for being fat and ginger so imagine if someone said they were gay. if someone came out i would stand up for them, i dont liek people saying faggot either. I hear that loads at skool, not to mention the jew goal or u jew
"I hear that loads at skool"? Please listen during the English lessons, young lad.
I was skeptical at first, but having read the discussion here I think it might be a better idea than I credited it for. If nothing else, it's created a discussion.
I genuinely don't think gay players would suffer abuse, except for places like Millwall and only then from the most scummy fans. I'm sure there are many homophobic Charlton fans but it doesn't mean they will start shouting homophobic abuse. I'm sure there are racist Charlton fans behind closed doors but doesn't mean they shout racist abuse.
I honestly can't see it being an issue in this day and age.
Some of the stuff on this thread is stunning, stunning in its vileness.
Be interesting to see how many Charlton players wear them at the weekend, I know Afka has said changing rooms have changed, but I suspect the Charlton one is quite old school, and the likes of Hughes and Hamer would hammer someone for wearing them
Heterosexuals haven't been immune from copping some terrible abuse from the terraces after having been caught with their pants down with someone else's missus. Football fans can be pretty cruel at times, even being a Keeper christened Nigel has been known to attract endless abuse from the covered end. Where does one draw the line without putting an end to all banter that might offend someone? For me that line would be racial abuse. Personally I see sexuality like religion, it's very private and personal and I see it as nobody's business but my own. Why should it be important for people to want to announce to the world that they are Gay or heterosexual for that matter.
where do I begin... By announce to the world do you mean hold hands with your partner, or just be seen in public with them whilst clearly being a couple? Much like heterosexual couples? I bet your sexuality isn't private, by which I don't mean the details of your sex life.
Well the idea of the Rainbow laces is to encourage footballers to come out and announce to the footballing public that they are gay, is it not? Why? That's what I don't get. It's nobody's business. Heterosexuals aren't encouraged to admit they prefer the opposite sex, so why all this "sing if your glad to be gay" crap, all the mardi gras parades etc. Why are homosexuals so keen to encourage other homosexuals to go public. I've got two good mates who are gay, they've never told me or even discussed it with me, but of course when they are with their respective partners it's quite obvious. I'm sure if they happened to be professional footballers, they wouldn't feel the need to tell the footballing public or the media that they were gay.
That's not the idea of the rainbow laces, you've completely missed the point.
im 14 and one thing i noticed is no one comes out at school because if they do they might aswell commit suicide, people have "banter" with me for being fat and ginger so imagine if someone said they were gay. if someone came out i would stand up for them, i dont liek people saying faggot either. I hear that loads at skool, not to mention the jew goal or u jew
"I hear that loads at skool"? Please listen during the English lessons, young lad.
@Viewfinder Are you joking ? The young lad's basically just admitted he's being bullied at school and you're digging him out about grammar. I despair about some of our fans.
I doubt any / many players will wear them. All sportsmen are incredibly precious about their equipment / footwear etc, and I would imagine very reluctant to make even the small change. A lot are particularly superstitious.
Massive difference to wearing a t short before a game, or a badge stitched on a shirt.
Comments
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Interesting debate, and approach with the laces. From what I understand *most* football changing rooms and footballers in general have changed dramatically over the last 20 years. It wasn't that long ago when the crazy gang was in full flow and bullies like Wally Downes would take the mickey out of a team mates wife for having cancer.
In that respect, the game has moved on a hell of a long way in a short space of time and I think the foreign influx and increased professionalism has had a lot to do with it. Additionally, if you saw the Liverpool doc last year you would see just what a sterile environment the dressing room can now be, and how gormless and quiet your average footballer can be these days.
So footballers and the dressing room are no longer a problem. I would expect a lot of players to know at least half a dozen pros who are gay, and the fact it is kept in house is a testament to how the game has evolved.
The issue 100% is with crowd reaction, and the ongoing society stick they would get for coming out. And I don't blame them. If I was a current pro and gay, I wouldnt come out. Nothing really to gain.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/married-allow.htm
Edit, I've just realised it's only entitled for people born before 1935, now maths isn't my strong point but I doubt there are many professional footballers of that age, gay or otherwise.
There might be more abuse on social media, though that's easily avoided by not having a public twitter account...
In a funny way, a good reason for not coming out is that you'd become a massive media sensation, swamped with interviews, being lauded all the time as a role model, and generally being distracted from doing what you want to do, which is play football.
In terms of handling it in context there is virtually no form of words you could use that would come out right, nor any actions either.
The 'general insult' in my scenario may be simply called a statement of fact by the speaker.
Either way, there is underneath all of this stuff a sense that some people think that gay people ought to be ashamed of who they are, which is one of the motivations for the celebrations queensland alludes to. A lot of gay pride celebrations are about refusing to feel the shame that some folk want to push onto gay people.
I honestly can't see it being an issue in this day and age.
Be interesting to see how many Charlton players wear them at the weekend, I know Afka has said changing rooms have changed, but I suspect the Charlton one is quite old school, and the likes of Hughes and Hamer would hammer someone for wearing them
Massive difference to wearing a t short before a game, or a badge stitched on a shirt.