Rape seems an awful thing to make 'banter' out of, Evans probably thick skinned and rich enough to laugh it off but I'm sure the girl in question would not see the joke at all. If someone misses a sitter then by all means rub that in their faces, Morrison (the ex-Palace one) yes I would not criticise people haranguing him unless it crosses the line into racism etc. There is a difference between genuine banter and mocking the players and outright abuse- chants about rape and wishing someone dead is far, far over that lane IMO.
Never been comfortable with songs about rape, somebody dying or anything like that. The subject is too serious in my opinion and you could be sitting near somebody who has been or knows someone who has been affected by these types of issues.
I'm all for the terrace chanting and have dished out a decent amount of 'abuse' in my time but I just think there are certain things that can be avoided for no other reasons than human empathy.
People know what football is like and what fans can be like, so there is more tolerance than other places in society but there are lines. In my opinion of course.
Never been comfortable with songs about rape, somebody dying or anything like that. The subject is too serious in my opinion and you could be sitting near somebody who has been or knows someone who has been affected by these types of issues.
I'm all for the terrace chanting and have dished out a decent amount of 'abuse' in my time but I just think there are certain things that can be avoided for no other reasons than human empathy.
People know what football is like and what fans can be like, so there is more tolerance than other places in society but there are lines. In my opinion of course.
I agree with much of that but who decides what is and what isn't acceptable? I just think that personal abuse is wrong per se.
The difference is between 'You're shit aaaaaaahhh' (re: every goalkeeper taking a kick) and 'You should have died' (re: Adebayor). Think of it as the difference between 'professional' abuse (for lack of a better term), questioning ability etc, and personal abuse which I agree is totally wrong.
Keeping this to specifics, for a moment, the Ched Evans songs started from the back of block E- the far end as you came into the terrace. That was the same area where the incest chants came from; not just the adams family song, but really vile stuff. These 2 other chants caught on briefly in the local crowd, who weren't all kids by any means. Then back to some anti-evans singing, which later switched into some 'was she even legal', then something about being 15, then something even more vile When the one or two were taken out it died down a bit, but the stewards were slow, and of course the ched evans stuff was popular by then and kept getting an airing- mostly that side, in that area, where about 20 guys, of mixed ages were. The evans chants weren't the worst of it- it was the other stuff going on that the evans chant seemed to give licence too, which really baffled me. Those around about went along with some of it and left some of it. And there was plenty of the rest of us getting behind the team pure and simple.
What i'd like to know is why someone having these kind of thoughts- which are pretty disturbing - thinks it's ok to give vent to them in the name of banter at a football match? That they do is a fact, whether right or wrong doesn't come into it for these people, It seems right to them, perfectly natural. They do it like a number did it yesterday- fact of life at football maybe, But the question for me is not the moral one, about right or wrong, it's why, and i can't help thinking there were some pretty disturbed individuals in that crowd at the back of that block.
The difference is between 'You're shit aaaaaaahhh' (re: every goalkeeper taking a kick) and 'You should have died' (re: Adebayor). Think of it as the difference between 'professional' abuse (for lack of a better term), questioning ability etc, and personal abuse which I agree is totally wrong.
Keeping this to specifics, for a moment, the Ched Evans songs started from the back of block E- the far end as you came into the terrace. That was the same area where the incest chants came from; not just the adams family song, but really vile stuff. These 2 other chants caught on briefly in the local crowd, who weren't all kids by any means. Then back to some anti-evans singing, which later switched into some 'was she even legal', then something about being 15, then something even more vile When the one or two were taken out it died down a bit, but the stewards were slow, and of course the ched evans stuff was popular by then and kept getting an airing- mostly that side, in that area, where about 20 guys, of mixed ages were. The evans chants weren't the worst of it- it was the other stuff going on that the evans chant seemed to give licence too, which really baffled me. Those around about went along with some of it and left some of it. And there was plenty of the rest of us getting behind the team pure and simple.
What i'd like to know is why someone having these kind of thoughts- which are pretty disturbing - thinks it's ok to give vent to them in the name of banter at a football match? That they do is a fact, whether right or wrong doesn't come into it for these people, It seems right to them, perfectly natural. They do it like a number did it yesterday- fact of life at football maybe, But the question for me is not the moral one, about right or wrong, it's why, and i can't help thinking there was some pretty disturbed individuals in that crowd at the back of that block.
They are a group of lads at Football who have had a few sherbets, these things happen, there's no point trying to analyse the reasons why some of the chants you heard may have come about, whether they're right or wrong.
Being from Glasgow I can't see what the issue is. Songs about wading through blood and terrorist attrocities are entry-level banter for the average mob. Rape wouldn't even get reported.
I do worry that some of the folk demanding a return to traditional terracing and hankering after what they think was the heyday of soccer, might really not enjoy it if the prawn butties got removed too.
Being from Glasgow I can't see what the issue is. Songs about wading through blood and terrorist attrocities are entry-level banter for the average mob. Rape wouldn't even get reported.
I do worry that some of the folk demanding a return to traditional terracing and hankering after what they think was the heyday of soccer, might really not enjoy it if the prawn butties got removed too.
Sadly its an age thing. If everyone who said right added their age, I doubt you get hardly any above 23. For those that say wrong, I doubt you would get many below 24.
And seeing as quite a few of us on here are 27, I'm pretty sure I know what the consensus would be
Substitute the word age with IQ and I think you would be on the right lines
Sadly its an age thing. If everyone who said right added their age, I doubt you get hardly any above 23. For those that say wrong, I doubt you would get many below 24. And seeing as quite a few of us on here are 27, I'm pretty sure I know what the consensus would be
There was a middle aged man with his youngish son that shouted it all the way through the game at the front of the crowd.
Doesnt make it right but who cares its a song, if he is proven to have raped the girl then he should get much than a song sang at him.
My take on this is If the numptys are singing stupid songs I won't join in and won't allow others around me to make me feel as though i should. I like a good sing along, including a few witty dittys aimed at the opposition but I keep it to football related, not personal. I have my opinions on the likes of Hughes, King etc, but singing about raping, murdering, beating up women has no place when surrounded by women and children.
Oh good, another thread having a pop at the supporters.
So shall we just say it's okay and as they're Charlton supporters they're fine? Believe me, I know more than a few who follow the club that, in my opinion, are complete tossers.
My take on this is If the numptys are singing stupid songs I won't join in and won't allow others around me to make me feel as though i should. I like a good sing along, including a few witty dittys aimed at the opposition but I keep it to football related, not personal. I have my opinions on the likes of Hughes, King etc, but singing about raping, murdering, beating up women has no place when surrounded by women and children.
Oh good, another thread having a pop at the supporters.
So shall we just say it's okay and as they're Charlton supporters they're fine? Believe me, I know more than a few who follow the club that, in my opinion, are complete tossers.
If you and others behind a keyboard are so angry about it why not confront 'these tossers'?
Week in, week out, this board is relentless in moaning about 'tossers' that folllow us and yet no one does anything.
If it bothers you all that much stop bloody whining and do something eh.
You get a majot tragedy and some have to spread jokes about it - there are some sick disrespectful people about. They will be represented whenever there is a crowd. We all have our values and they are going to be different. For instance, I have no problem with Lee Hughes getting stick because I know he was guilty of a dreadful crime and I believe he should still be in prison -not living the good life of a footballer. Others may say he has paid his price.
It does sadden me that people don't raise their decency bars a little higher but lots of things about this greedy selfish society sadden me. I also realise that there are simple minded people out there, and a lot go to football. You just have to see them and their actions for what they are. Doesn't mean we shouldn't speak up though -it is important to clarify that not all Charlton fans are idiots and these people don't represent me.
And a big thing about why the Evans abuse was wrong is that he hasn't been found guilty yet.
Oh good, another thread having a pop at the supporters.
It's called self-awareness. The ability for a community to at least identify and reflect on it's own failures is the grounds for that community to regulate itself. Otherwise we might as well go back to the cages and riot police. As supporters of a football club we choose to have, to some extent, a shared identity, and thereby a shared responsibility.
(If I was a christian I might say "if thy hand offend thee cut it off" or words to that effect. But I'm not so I'm stuck with my left-leaning Guardian - reading woolly liberal attempts at being a decent person.)
Comments
People know what football is like and what fans can be like, so there is more tolerance than other places in society but there are lines. In my opinion of course.
What i'd like to know is why someone having these kind of thoughts- which are pretty disturbing - thinks it's ok to give vent to them in the name of banter at a football match? That they do is a fact, whether right or wrong doesn't come into it for these people, It seems right to them, perfectly natural. They do it like a number did it yesterday- fact of life at football maybe, But the question for me is not the moral one, about right or wrong, it's why, and i can't help thinking there were some pretty disturbed individuals in that crowd at the back of that block.
i'm pretty sure i heard some 'wheels of the bus' chuff at mk dons the other day
Shame - our support was fantastic yesterday. She said Noooooo
Right
Does he only sweat when he's roasting too?
Being from Glasgow I can't see what the issue is. Songs about wading through blood and terrorist attrocities are entry-level banter for the average mob. Rape wouldn't even get reported.
I do worry that some of the folk demanding a return to traditional terracing and hankering after what they think was the heyday of soccer, might really not enjoy it if the prawn butties got removed too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwmoSYT0i_s
Was alot louder from over the right side.
There was a middle aged man with his youngish son that shouted it all the way through the game at the front of the crowd.
Doesnt make it right but who cares its a song, if he is proven to have raped the girl then he should get much than a song sang at him.
So shall we just say it's okay and as they're Charlton supporters they're fine? Believe me, I know more than a few who follow the club that, in my opinion, are complete tossers.
so angry about it why not confront 'these tossers'?
Week in, week out, this board is relentless in moaning about 'tossers' that folllow us and yet no one does anything.
If it bothers you all that much stop bloody whining and do something eh.
It does sadden me that people don't raise their decency bars a little higher but lots of things about this greedy selfish society sadden me. I also realise that there are simple minded people out there, and a lot go to football. You just have to see them and their actions for what they are. Doesn't mean we shouldn't speak up though -it is important to clarify that not all Charlton fans are idiots and these people don't represent me.
And a big thing about why the Evans abuse was wrong is that he hasn't been found guilty yet.