[cite]Posted By: Jayajosh[/cite]New face with fresh ideas is needed now. Why wait two games? If we win those two games, what is going to change? Nothing! We will still be shit because the manager is shit. For god sake, people must surely see this!
Not that simple, that's why.
I'm sure people said similar things after the Northwich game and we the beat MK Dons 5-1 and went on a good run.
If he was that bad we wouldn't have made the play offs last season.
Not saying we definitely don't need a change, I think it's looking like we could do with one. A terrible manager doesn't lose just 8 league games over 46 matches though.
Last line very true....
We are all just very down, we were a bit spoilt by the glory years and we just arent used to seeing total journeyman garbage rolled out week after week.
Who would want to come to Charlton now is the question: It's becoming (or already is) a poisoned chalice of a club. Just look at all the players we have ruined recently!
[quote][cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Jayajosh[/cite]New face with fresh ideas is needed now. Why wait two games? If we win those two games, what is going to change? Nothing! We will still be shit because the manager is shit. For god sake, people must surely see this![/quote] Not that simple, that's why.
I'm sure people said similar things after the Northwich game and we the beat MK Dons 5-1 and went on a good run.
If he was that bad we wouldn't have made the play offs last season.
Not saying we definitely don't need a change, I think it's looking like we could do with one. A terrible manager doesn't lose just 8 league games over 46 matches though.[/quote]
I really think you underestimate the strength of our squad last year with the likes of Sam, Bailey, Richardson, Burton, Randolf and of course Jonjo who he refused to play. It's just a matter of opinion and I know you disagree, but I think any half decent manager would have got that team promoted. As for only losing 8 games, I could set my team up with all 11 players on the goaline all season and probably lose even less games. But it wouldn't provide much in the way of entertainment for the fans, more importantly it wouldn't make me a good manager. Statistics such as that can be misleading. I'd rather see how many games we had won and our goals per game ratio.
[cite]Posted By: Jayajosh[/cite]New face with fresh ideas is needed now. Why wait two games? If we win those two games, what is going to change? Nothing! We will still be shit because the manager is shit. For god sake, people must surely see this!
Not that simple, that's why.
I'm sure people said similar things after the Northwich game and we the beat MK Dons 5-1 and went on a good run.
If he was that bad we wouldn't have made the play offs last season.
Not saying we definitely don't need a change, I think it's looking like we could do with one. A terrible manager doesn't lose just 8 league games over 46 matches though.
I really think you underestimate the strength of our squad last year with the likes of Sam, Bailey, Richardson, Burton, Randolf and of course Jonjo who he refused to play. It's just a matter of opinion and I know you disagree, but I think any half decent manager would have got that team promoted.
As for only losing 8 games, I could set my team up with all 11 players on the goaline all season and probably lose even less games. But it wouldn't provide much in the way of entertainment for the fans, more importantly it wouldn't make me a good manager. Statistics such as that can be misleading. I'd rather see how many games we had won and our goals per game ratio.
It aint a matter of opinion mate it is a statement of truth
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Charlton are just one defeat away from the[b aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]worst league position that any Charlton Lifer would have ever seen[/b]. Time for change.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]It aint a matter of opinion mate it is a statement of truth
Since when?
It's not the midfield I was underestimating. What about our strikers?
Any half decent manager would have got us promoted last season? Just doesnt work like that. We had no left winger for over half the season? It wasn't down to a lack of planning or intelligence either, we know Parky tried to sign Puncheon, Reid and Jackson the previous summer so it he can't be blamed for the squad not being complete. There will be others he couldn't sign either.
Norwich and Leeds had squads at least as good as ours but I'd argue better.
Play offs are like cup games and the favourites don't always win. The quality between us and Swindon was very similar. Maybe their two strikers covered up weaknesses elsewhere but then our midfield covered up our lack of quality up front.
You're underestimating how hard it is to gain promotion in what was a very competitive division last season.
As I've said elsewhere it might be time for a change, but Parky did a better job last season than he is given credit for. I suppose much of it comes from anger built up over his appointment, the relegation, Millwall, Northwich and Brighton games rather than last season overall.
My anger with regards to last season stems from the fact that for the middle third of the season we simply stopped playing. Parky needed to take action to start turning 1-1's into wins and he had a young man at his disposal capable of doing just that. Either he couldn't see that we needed more creativity or his own pig headedness prevented him from playing Jonjo.
Had we approached that middle third of the season with the same vigour and urgency that we showed in the first and final six games we'd have been home and dry long before the season ended. Considering we only played well at the start and end of the season, I'm amazed we managed to even stay in contention, at one stage it looked like we might not even make the play offs.
I don't disagree, he could have used Shelvey more. I do think the players we had were part of the reason he was too cautious at times. We didn't have the players to go out and score 5 if the opposition scored 4.
Our second best run was in the middle of the season, 5 wins in 6, the other game being the draw at Yeovil.
Parky did make mistakes, but plenty of other managers would have made mistakes themselves with the squad we had. Go too attacking and some of the narrow wins or close draws would have become draws and defeats.
Let's not forget some of the big mistakes players made, things that a manager can't control. Burton and Sodje's red cards at home to Swindon, Bailey giving away the ball for Swindon's goal in the play off second leg before missing his penalty. Chances we should have scored and goals we shouldn't have conceded that would have drawn or won us games.
I'm not saying Parky did a fantastic job last season, but he did a good one to keep us up there all season. Not something just any manager would have done.
Yes, my worry is not that Parky doesn't have strengths (he does) but more his ability to change things when things aren't working. I think there are changes he could try but he doesn't. If you win 2 and lose 2 it's 2 points better than drawing 4. I'm starting to fear that we are always going to draw too many games under the cautious, conservative Parky and that is what ultimately cost us last year. He should be looking for the formula to change this but hasn't IMO. We have players like Racon who has a lot of ability but shortcomings too. Maybe he needs a free attacking role as part of a 3. Parky doesn't think in this way i.e. how to get the best out of the talent we have. It's 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 with 2 wingers and a slow striker!!! You have to look at what you have and what you can do with them surely. The formation can be more flexible for sure. If I see an attack of Martin and Waggy on the wings and Benson and Abbot up front - on Saturday - that will be the final straw for me.
Not wanting to waste time checking the history books but I would really like to know the last time we won 3-0 at home and and got a result 2-0 away. Not interested in results where we have won and conceded because a lot of those games I suspect we nicked a result after being overrun for large parts of games. I really am trying to think of games where we have dominated from start to finish and reduced the opposition to one shot or two but can't think of many.
Shouldn't be having this debate. He should've gone at 5pm on Saturday. Had enough of him, he hasn't got a clue when his only plan breaks down, get rid. Get in someone who'll get us playing football properly again, don't care who.
[cite]Posted By: Eltham[/cite]Shouldn't be having this debate. He should've gone at 5pm on Saturday. Had enough of him, he hasn't got a clue when his only plan breaks down, get rid. Get in someone who'll get us playing football properly again, don't care who.
He should go just as soon as we have a better, more experienced, cheaper, available replacement who is guaranteed to improve our form, guarantee a top-place finish and make profit at every transfer window*. Until then, he should stay.
I was for him going last weekend, really cannot see us getting much out of our next two games especially if we play like we have been pretty much since August- one or two 45min spells aside.
However it now looks as though, he will be given at least 2-3 games, I am interested in knowing what Richard Murray thinks will be an acceptable return from Carlisle and Sheffield Wednesday,. I have no idea as would 2 points be ok. I think we need to be looking at mininum 3 points but ideally 4 if Parky is going to keep his job.
Yes as was mentioned before- If Carlisle hammer us but we win 1-0 through mostly good fortune - would this be positive? I think we need to look at the performance- Is the team creating chances/ more chances than our opponents? We could be unlucky and lose and dominate the game - I'd be happier with this as it tells me that over the course of the season we will probably gain more points. This is something we need to get right and the results will come.
You shouldn't be suprised when you score but I certainly am when we do at the moment. This has to change at this level.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Yes as was mentioned before- If Carlisle hammer us but we win 1-0 through mostly good fortune - would this be positive?
Well it was once said that Parky will be judged on results.
Seems he wasn't in 08/09 during his caretaker period.
People say it should have been about results back then. Shouldn't it be about results now?
Murray won't sack Parky if we are winning but not playing particularly well.
If we win playing badly it would be ok if it was regular but if you win lucky you can't get that luck every week - you need to stack the odds in your favour a bit by playing better - creating more chances - that is our big weakness -watching us try to fashion chances is like having you teeth pulled out. I'm racking my brains to work out how Parky has addressed the problem - true, he changes personnel but not tactics and eventually goes back to trying combinations he has already tried before which haven't worked (benson and Abbott palying together). We don't have a massive squad and we do have some decent players at this level so he should be looking at new ways of playing. If you look at higher levels of the game, who plays a rigid 4-4-2 anymore? Wingers are too much of a luxury unless they are creating bucket loads of chances. Doesn't mean you don't play Martin, Waggy and Reid, just that you deploy them differently. Parky has to convince me he understands that.
Performances and results are linked. Consistent good performances will bring consistent good results and will also breed an increase of confidence within the team. Consistent bad performances will bring the occassional wins against the run of play (Notts County comes to mind) but more often we will be undone with draws against the weaker teams or defeats against the better teams (Huddersfield and Brighton come to mind). More importantly, consistent bad performances will erode confidence in the team. This has been the pattern for a while now and will continue unless things change. I believe Parky is incapable of thinking any other way and he needs to go.
I think a good example of how a team can change with a different approach is Norwich last year. What a change when Gunn left and Lambert came in. Essentially the same side but with a different approach.
Maybe Murray is incapable of finding the right person and that's the scary thing. His track record has not been good.
The big problem here is that options 1 & 2 are not applicable down to the financial state, so i am afraid that that renders this poll pointless. Might as well start a new pointless one......
Should we sign Rooney?
I share everyone's frustration with the whole mess we're in but the clubs hands are tied. They made their choice when they appointed him and now have to stick with it. Always personally thought it was the wrong choice but was willing to give him a chance. Now i wait for the day he's gone and takes his one dimensional tactics with him. going by the general opinions on here i think he's just about lost any support he had from us and it's just a matter of time before the players follow suit. I've always liked richard murray and really believe he loves the club but you have to raise questions at his appointments since Curbs left. Every one of them has been a disaster and the longer it goes on the less attractive a prospect we seem to any potential successors..............its gonna be a long long road. Anyone wanna hold my hand? ;-)
Parkinson out middle of November 2010 but seeing Murray was behind getting rid of Curbs and bringing in Dowie,replacing him with Reid and bringing Pardew to the club, think Murray has not got aclue what agood manager is.
As for paying off Parkinson thats easy just have to pay one payment every month until 30-06-2011.Just like paying him his monthly wage but with abetter result at the end of the day.
Whilst we can see the effects on the pitch of problems that exist somewhere in the mix, knowing what needs to be done to tackle and address these problems is hard to call without knowing what is really going on behind the scenes. If I was Richard Murray I would be very unhappy with what I was seeing on the pitch, because I think we are underperforming. That really cannot be tolerated, whatever the cause of it. We are limited in our options by financial constraints, so we probably have to fix this in house, and rectify the problem ourselves, whatever it is. I guess I would be making it very plain what I expected from a team of players that put on the charlton shirt, and what I expect from the management side of things. Big salaries demand big character,attitude, skill and resilience. Afterall, we may be playing for our long term survival, and this key point should be evident in every players' attitude and performance on the pitch. For 90 minutes preferably. And every game.
someone said about the 3rd brighton goal (setpiece) being well thought out and worked on again and again in training , SO with someone like mark kinsella about i would have fort the setpieces would have been much better!!!! remember the setpieces kins and mark robson used to do norwich home 4-4 and the brilliant freekick at home against westbrom 5-1 then someone touched the ball to him and dragged the ball to his right foot anvoiding the charging wall and driving the ball into the top corner ! surpurb why why why dont we try things like that
My first best option would be to replace PP with one of the many names already mentioned on this and other threads along with the entire coaching set up at The Valley. IF this is genuinely not possible because of the financial situation then I would be happy in the short term for PP to be told to go and sort out his garden and therefore continue paying his salary until his contract ends but in the meantime get virtually anyone to replace Parkinson. If that means Matthew until the seasons end then so be it. It cannot possibly be any worse than it is now. Even Henry has picked a better team than PP. Thats how serious this is.
Comments
Last line very true....
We are all just very down, we were a bit spoilt by the glory years and we just arent used to seeing total journeyman garbage rolled out week after week.
Not that simple, that's why.
I'm sure people said similar things after the Northwich game and we the beat MK Dons 5-1 and went on a good run.
If he was that bad we wouldn't have made the play offs last season.
Not saying we definitely don't need a change, I think it's looking like we could do with one. A terrible manager doesn't lose just 8 league games over 46 matches though.[/quote]
I really think you underestimate the strength of our squad last year with the likes of Sam, Bailey, Richardson, Burton, Randolf and of course Jonjo who he refused to play. It's just a matter of opinion and I know you disagree, but I think any half decent manager would have got that team promoted.
As for only losing 8 games, I could set my team up with all 11 players on the goaline all season and probably lose even less games. But it wouldn't provide much in the way of entertainment for the fans, more importantly it wouldn't make me a good manager. Statistics such as that can be misleading. I'd rather see how many games we had won and our goals per game ratio.
It aint a matter of opinion mate it is a statement of truth
i think its true.
Since when?
It's not the midfield I was underestimating. What about our strikers?
Any half decent manager would have got us promoted last season? Just doesnt work like that. We had no left winger for over half the season? It wasn't down to a lack of planning or intelligence either, we know Parky tried to sign Puncheon, Reid and Jackson the previous summer so it he can't be blamed for the squad not being complete. There will be others he couldn't sign either.
Norwich and Leeds had squads at least as good as ours but I'd argue better.
Play offs are like cup games and the favourites don't always win. The quality between us and Swindon was very similar. Maybe their two strikers covered up weaknesses elsewhere but then our midfield covered up our lack of quality up front.
You're underestimating how hard it is to gain promotion in what was a very competitive division last season.
As I've said elsewhere it might be time for a change, but Parky did a better job last season than he is given credit for. I suppose much of it comes from anger built up over his appointment, the relegation, Millwall, Northwich and Brighton games rather than last season overall.
Had we approached that middle third of the season with the same vigour and urgency that we showed in the first and final six games we'd have been home and dry long before the season ended. Considering we only played well at the start and end of the season, I'm amazed we managed to even stay in contention, at one stage it looked like we might not even make the play offs.
Our second best run was in the middle of the season, 5 wins in 6, the other game being the draw at Yeovil.
Parky did make mistakes, but plenty of other managers would have made mistakes themselves with the squad we had. Go too attacking and some of the narrow wins or close draws would have become draws and defeats.
Let's not forget some of the big mistakes players made, things that a manager can't control. Burton and Sodje's red cards at home to Swindon, Bailey giving away the ball for Swindon's goal in the play off second leg before missing his penalty. Chances we should have scored and goals we shouldn't have conceded that would have drawn or won us games.
I'm not saying Parky did a fantastic job last season, but he did a good one to keep us up there all season. Not something just any manager would have done.
That's assuming you're discounting the 3-1 against Orient this season.
yep.
(*Just like any other manager, at any time).
However it now looks as though, he will be given at least 2-3 games, I am interested in knowing what Richard Murray thinks will be an acceptable return from Carlisle and Sheffield Wednesday,. I have no idea as would 2 points be ok. I think we need to be looking at mininum 3 points but ideally 4 if Parky is going to keep his job.
You shouldn't be suprised when you score but I certainly am when we do at the moment. This has to change at this level.
Seems he wasn't in 08/09 during his caretaker period.
People say it should have been about results back then. Shouldn't it be about results now?
Murray won't sack Parky if we are winning but not playing particularly well.
Like Nero fiddling while Rome burns ...
Has Richard become so gun-shy from the follies of Dowie, Reed and Pardont that he can't pull the trigger when all evidence says that he should?
I think a good example of how a team can change with a different approach is Norwich last year. What a change when Gunn left and Lambert came in. Essentially the same side but with a different approach.
Maybe Murray is incapable of finding the right person and that's the scary thing. His track record has not been good.
Should we sign Rooney?
I share everyone's frustration with the whole mess we're in but the clubs hands are tied. They made their choice when they appointed him and now have to stick with it. Always personally thought it was the wrong choice but was willing to give him a chance. Now i wait for the day he's gone and takes his one dimensional tactics with him. going by the general opinions on here i think he's just about lost any support he had from us and it's just a matter of time before the players follow suit. I've always liked richard murray and really believe he loves the club but you have to raise questions at his appointments since Curbs left. Every one of them has been a disaster and the longer it goes on the less attractive a prospect we seem to any potential successors..............its gonna be a long long road. Anyone wanna hold my hand? ;-)
As for paying off Parkinson thats easy just have to pay one payment every month until 30-06-2011.Just like paying him his monthly wage but with abetter result at the end of the day.
If I was Richard Murray I would be very unhappy with what I was seeing on the pitch, because I think we are underperforming. That really cannot be tolerated, whatever the cause of it. We are limited in our options by financial constraints, so we probably have to fix this in house, and rectify the problem ourselves, whatever it is.
I guess I would be making it very plain what I expected from a team of players that put on the charlton shirt, and what I expect from the management side of things. Big salaries demand big character,attitude, skill and resilience.
Afterall, we may be playing for our long term survival, and this key point should be evident in every players' attitude and performance on the pitch.
For 90 minutes preferably. And every game.