Football is all about coaching. It's no coincidence that the best coaches / managers get results year after year. Team after team. In the two years Parkinson has been at Charlton as number two and number one we have gone from bad to worse. In 48 years of going to The Valley this is as bad as I have EVER witnessed. Nice bloke can't coach well enough to manage a professional football club. He has to go. It will not get any better until he does.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Look at the results of the poll and it shows how hard RM's job is - regardless of decision he is going to get it in the neck from two-thirds of our support.
Exactly. If he goes, and then we had a poll for who should be the new manager, I'd imagine the votes would be equally split. There is not a couple of names everyone is suggesting, I'm sure at least 20 realistic (from what we know of their situation) managers have been mentioned just in the last day.
Personally i'm a parky follower, and would like to support him and give him until atleast xmas at the earliest - this is not how I voted though
however after the crowd has really turned its only a matter of time now before he goes, even if we win the next 10 games in a row, the next loss/draw/poor performance his head will be called for, even if he took us up, the same would happen, it will always hark back to him being pardews right hand man, and have we changed atall?? up until the last 3/4 games we'd looked to remove the stupid goals we consistanly conceeded against the run of play and had looked solid as a unit, since brentford the charlton of old (the last 4 seasons) has reared tis ugly head, we've consistanly coneeded stupid goals either early or like on saturday late in the game, goals which should never ever have been conceeded. We appear on paper to have a creative and hard working team - ideal for league one you would think however they looked devoid of ideas, and a team of individuals, which if they a=perfomred on there day could bet anyone in this league, however not once this season has more than 1 maybe 2 players been 'on their game'. we've started to rely on individuals once again.
The main thing that annoyed me about saturday was, did anyone at charlton players/staff watch any of brighton last week??? every set play/corner was played across the edge of the d and attempted to be smashed in, why was no1 closing down these attempts, there was the biggest bit of open space right on the edge of our own box, also after prob 5 min of the first half everytime there keeper got the ball it was played across the back four, mainly to the fullbacks and down the wings, why werent these options taken away?? the one time they were, (martin benno and abbot closing down) brighton had no ideas where to play the ball humped it upfield and we regained posession once again. after this working once, why the hell didnt the players keep doing this??
Brighton really werent that good and the 4-0 scoreline really flattered them, they were predictable and could easily have been nullyfied but we seemed unable or unwilling to close the space down, get tight to our men when we didnt have posession, and were incredabley narrow all game
Unforutnaly as stated above he does have to go and ASAP once the crowd is lost then the players will be very soon after, god knows who we'd put in, but please please please be someone who encourages the ball to be passed, simple but progressive, not humping upfield, infact i dont want it above chest hight, apart from crosses, our players simply cant head the ball their position and techneque when controlling a high ball is quite frankly disgusting (for example abbot/benson/racon/semedo/martin on sat, I could tell the majority of balls were gonna be just over his head, if he'd watched the flight and took a few steps back before jumping they would have been pin point, but alas no he just jumped for the sake of jumping and they would brush the top of his head)
[cite]Posted By: Elthamaddick[/cite]plus he does seem to have the support of the players
does he ? Hardly showing it on the pitch are they. And because they say he's a nice bloke at Q&A's, so what ? He keeps picking them, he signed them, he never berates them. No wonder they like him.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Look at the results of the poll and it shows how hard RM's job is - regardless of decision he is going to get it in the neck from two-thirds of our support.
but 70% are effectively giving him three games at most to change things. Come out of those winless and it's then 70% for him to go now.
Please use this thread to simply state where you are, and not debate on other people's views. Every other thread is for that purpose.
Lets just leave this thread as people stating their view, and leave it at that.
If you wish to comment further on someone's post, take it to task etc, please copy and paste it out and start a seperate thread, or expand on one of the many other related threads ongoing.
Don't think we can wait much longer than that for results - and performances - to improve, or the possibilities for promotion could start to look very bleak.
And unfortunately it would need to involve the departure of Breacker and Kinsella as well, as otherwise we'll be back to where we were when Parky first took over.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Look at the results of the poll and it shows how hard RM's job is - regardless of decision he is going to get it in the neck from two-thirds of our support.
the thing is mate 70% want him gone either now or within a month if thins dont pick up, thats 70% of people on here teetering on the edge of removal
the man has lost the fans
nice bloke or not best interest of the club at heart or not,
when RM employed him i said ok you have my attention i am watching and listening, i think the only reason no one is shooting balls at muzza is that his 7mil saved our bacon him and the directors granted themselves a well earned abstainment from people being overtly criticle of them.
now though enough is enough do something drastic take a big bloody risk and move from the safe option
Les Read, Phil Parkinson, Both safe options
Pardew was the right decision it didnt work out ands we kept him too long but the decision was met with joy so those that say RM has fooked all mgr choices up are mistaken.
This time it is a very important one but one that needs to be made so he should now be talking to others seeing what and who is available and wait for the next ridiculous result which is just around the corner
Voted for C - at least till XMAS hopefully not at all.
I stand by my opinion that he should go if we dont achieve promotion this season, and now is still too early to tell.
If however, we get tonked at home like that again, or we are so far down the table at Xmas that promotion looks a miracle then maybe that might be the right time but I still hope that Saturday was a one off and our general level of play has been good enough for play off aspirations as long as we cut out the silly mistakes and replace Docherty and Jackson with Dailly and Fry going forward.
Sheff Wed fans were no doubt saying the same thing 3 games ago and they are now 4th - this is a pony league people and we are far from being the poniest.
Parkinson was the cheap option at the time, very unpopular with the fans but the board went with him. Admittedly he had a hard job in his first season but didn't do it very well. He was then, for some strange reason given a contract extension that seemed to be madness.
We should have got promoted last year, no question about that. We dropped some very silly points mainly due to Parkinsons inability to change things went it's not going well. Failure to get promotion should have meant the end for Parkinson but we couldn't afford to sack him because of that ridiculous contract extension.
We have to cut our losses now, pay him off, do whatever is neccesary and get rid of him before he takes this club further down.
An important factor that seems brodly ignored is the players. Not saying it's player power but as long as the players believe I'd give him more time certainly.
In the meantime perhaps Murray does need to get his ear to the ground on possible replacements. However almost ever name mentioned on here is either unrealistic (money for wages. money for players., already in a job) or would be a huge gamble.
Parkinson, Breaker and Kinsella, between them, are not up to the job - obviously! We are going backwards (again). The key debate here seems to be:
A. Can we afford to sack PP, Breaker and Kinsella and afford a new manager with the right credentials? (or)
B. Can we afford not to?
I reluctantly say B (and I kind of like PP)!
I had some sympathy for his restrictions last season/this season, to a certain point, but that old excuse has worn thin now. PP is taking us to nowheres-ville! We are not the only club to be struggling financially at the moment, nor are we the only club trying to 'gel' a new squad of players! I am sick of all the lame excuses and positives taken from games that we have underperformed in: basically it is absolute BS.
The level of our football has deteriorated (season after season) to the point where we look like bloody amateurs who cannot make even simple decisions on the pitch. The worst thing is that I fully expected us to get a drubbing yesterday, in fact I predicted 4-0 to my family. "Don't be silly" they all said!
I think we all need to wake up and realise that a line needs to be drawn NOW, sooner rather than later. To keep things as they are is as good as throwing in the towel. I cannot fathom fans saying "We haven't got a choice, we're stuck with PP, we can't afford it".
To put it simply, we cannot afford not to get rid NOW and at least give ourselves a CHANCE of changing things.PP HAS had long enough now and no-one else can be blamed (Dowie, Reid, Pardew, etc). Things are going to get far worse if PP/the current coaching set-up remains - they are absolutely useless/clueless!
I was defending PP last season and at the start of this season BUT I have had enough now. In 2 to 5 more games we will not be 14th - we will be lower. Can I just remind everyone that we are only 4 points away from the dotted line! PP has to go RIGHT NOW!
I was not at the game Saturday so i did not have to witness the performance but I am still of the view keep Parky for this year at least.
Stabilty is needed and i think the damage done by others before him has made this re-building job a bigger one than any of us imagined and that getting someone in now may be more damging than good. I also think that this year the league is going to be so tight and things can change in an instance, who is to say that we can not go to Carlisle and get a result on Saturday and go on a run then everything looks good again. S Wed had a little blip but seem to have recorved.
I think the anger at Parky is more anger of the damge that has done before.
I voted 2-3 games, I think he should be given a chance to garner a response from the team. We have tough games coming up which will determine whether saturday was a really bad day or we will not be competitive in this league. I fear the latter is true but don't think in our precarious situation we can afford to make a hasty decision based on one truly awful game. If it's 3 then RM will have little choice.
looking at the next few games, especially the away ones, it's difficult to see where we will get any points under PArky so the bold move, and probably the right one in the long-term, would be to act decisively, and sack him now
however, that will only work if they have somebody lined up and ready to come straight in
and the difficulty with that is the man they want can name his price and ask for exhorbitant terms which can cripple the club in the future (as Pardew did in Christmas 2006)
One element to vote for that isn't there is:
This weekend there is the draw for the first round of the FA Cup
If we drew, say, Dartford...home or away, and went out...and this would happen way before Christmas...would those who support Parky until Christmas, or the rest of the season, continue to do so?
I'm in the three game camp. We need to see a real improvement and a six or seven points return, if we acheive this then he buys himself more time.
Even if he does this he's going to have to pull off something remarkable to keep his job going forward, once fans lose confidence like this all you are ever doing is keeping your head above water unless you can string together a ten match unbeaten run or similar.
It's sad to see because he is the one manager we've had since Curbs that I thought might suit our club from a personality point of view but the tactical and coaching weaknesses are too obvious to ignore now.
At the moment the club is in crisis similar to when he took over and it may take a someone a bit less nice to turn it around.
"...the South London Press has learned that the Addicks boss could have just two games to save his job'', says the trailer for the story the paper is running tomorrow.
So perhaps RM is prepared to throw the dice one last time.
And I see that the numbers on here who would give him a max of 2/3 games to turn it around have steadily risen throughout the day from 70 per cent this morning, to stand at 75 per cent by late afternoon.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]"...the South London Press has learned that the Addicks boss could have just two games to save his job'', says the trailer for the story the paper is running tomorrow.
So perhaps RM is prepared to throw the dice one last time.
And I see that the numbers on here who would give him a max of 2/3 games to turn it around have steadily risen throughout the day from 70 per cent this morning, to stand at 75 per cent by late afternoon.
Running a story like that is not going to help his chances. He must be under so much pressure at the moment and the players must feel it too. If they're on his side, surely they will do everything within their power to get a win for him?
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]And I see that the numbers on here who would give him a max of 2/3 games to turn it around have steadily risen throughout the day from 70 per cent this morning, to stand at 75 per cent by late afternoon.
I'm 100% supportive of him. Not trying to wind anyone up or be controversial. I still believe Parky's a good manager, I don't think Ince, Jewell, Allen etc would do any better -particularly mid season with a squad full of players they didn't buy -, and more upheaval is possibly/probably the last thing the club needs.
Just MHO of course.
Saturday was a terrible day, no question. But I still think some patience is needed.
Clicked the wrong button. Put go now but meant christmas.
Go now if there is someone else lined up which is unlikely as more knee jerk appointments are futile. (Extremely unrealistic unless Murray has been working behind scenes)
Between now and Christmas seriously line up a replacement. If vast improvements in results then give him to the end of his contract and assess whole season.
If not then get in a entire new team in the new year and sincerely thanks for trying your best Phil but it's time for a change.
My view he’s got till the end of November to turn this around. Before Saturday, I was willing to give him the benefit, but we were tactically naïve against Brighton. He made me wonder if he watched Brighton play in recent weeks. Greer thought he was Paulo Maldini, the time he was given. Did not take a rocket scientist to work out that if you put the back four under pressure, then a mistake could occur.
For the life of me, I don’t want to see another change, but if we are creeping towards the bottom by the end of November, or not in the top half, then enough is enough.
Comments
however after the crowd has really turned its only a matter of time now before he goes, even if we win the next 10 games in a row, the next loss/draw/poor performance his head will be called for, even if he took us up, the same would happen, it will always hark back to him being pardews right hand man, and have we changed atall?? up until the last 3/4 games we'd looked to remove the stupid goals we consistanly conceeded against the run of play and had looked solid as a unit, since brentford the charlton of old (the last 4 seasons) has reared tis ugly head, we've consistanly coneeded stupid goals either early or like on saturday late in the game, goals which should never ever have been conceeded. We appear on paper to have a creative and hard working team - ideal for league one you would think however they looked devoid of ideas, and a team of individuals, which if they a=perfomred on there day could bet anyone in this league, however not once this season has more than 1 maybe 2 players been 'on their game'. we've started to rely on individuals once again.
The main thing that annoyed me about saturday was, did anyone at charlton players/staff watch any of brighton last week??? every set play/corner was played across the edge of the d and attempted to be smashed in, why was no1 closing down these attempts, there was the biggest bit of open space right on the edge of our own box, also after prob 5 min of the first half everytime there keeper got the ball it was played across the back four, mainly to the fullbacks and down the wings, why werent these options taken away?? the one time they were, (martin benno and abbot closing down) brighton had no ideas where to play the ball humped it upfield and we regained posession once again. after this working once, why the hell didnt the players keep doing this??
Brighton really werent that good and the 4-0 scoreline really flattered them, they were predictable and could easily have been nullyfied but we seemed unable or unwilling to close the space down, get tight to our men when we didnt have posession, and were incredabley narrow all game
Unforutnaly as stated above he does have to go and ASAP once the crowd is lost then the players will be very soon after, god knows who we'd put in, but please please please be someone who encourages the ball to be passed, simple but progressive, not humping upfield, infact i dont want it above chest hight, apart from crosses, our players simply cant head the ball their position and techneque when controlling a high ball is quite frankly disgusting (for example abbot/benson/racon/semedo/martin on sat, I could tell the majority of balls were gonna be just over his head, if he'd watched the flight and took a few steps back before jumping they would have been pin point, but alas no he just jumped for the sake of jumping and they would brush the top of his head)
Please use this thread to simply state where you are, and not debate on other people's views. Every other thread is for that purpose.
Lets just leave this thread as people stating their view, and leave it at that.
If you wish to comment further on someone's post, take it to task etc, please copy and paste it out and start a seperate thread, or expand on one of the many other related threads ongoing.
cheers
Don't think we can wait much longer than that for results - and performances - to improve, or the possibilities for promotion could start to look very bleak.
And unfortunately it would need to involve the departure of Breacker and Kinsella as well, as otherwise we'll be back to where we were when Parky first took over.
I voted for him to stay until Xmas, but I might change my mind after Carlisle.
the thing is mate 70% want him gone either now or within a month if thins dont pick up, thats 70% of people on here teetering on the edge of removal
the man has lost the fans
nice bloke or not best interest of the club at heart or not,
when RM employed him i said ok you have my attention i am watching and listening, i think the only reason no one is shooting balls at muzza is that his 7mil saved our bacon him and the directors granted themselves a well earned abstainment from people being overtly criticle of them.
now though enough is enough do something drastic take a big bloody risk and move from the safe option
Les Read, Phil Parkinson, Both safe options
Pardew was the right decision it didnt work out ands we kept him too long but the decision was met with joy so those that say RM has fooked all mgr choices up are mistaken.
This time it is a very important one but one that needs to be made so he should now be talking to others seeing what and who is available and wait for the next ridiculous result which is just around the corner
if it is not today then it will be soon
Keeping him on after relegation is the main reason (also finances) I stopped getting a season ticket having had one since Selhurst days.
I stand by my opinion that he should go if we dont achieve promotion this season, and now is still too early to tell.
If however, we get tonked at home like that again, or we are so far down the table at Xmas that promotion looks a miracle then maybe that might be the right time but I still hope that Saturday was a one off and our general level of play has been good enough for play off aspirations as long as we cut out the silly mistakes and replace Docherty and Jackson with Dailly and Fry going forward.
Sheff Wed fans were no doubt saying the same thing 3 games ago and they are now 4th - this is a pony league people and we are far from being the poniest.
We should have got promoted last year, no question about that. We dropped some very silly points mainly due to Parkinsons inability to change things went it's not going well. Failure to get promotion should have meant the end for Parkinson but we couldn't afford to sack him because of that ridiculous contract extension.
We have to cut our losses now, pay him off, do whatever is neccesary and get rid of him before he takes this club further down.
In the meantime perhaps Murray does need to get his ear to the ground on possible replacements. However almost ever name mentioned on here is either unrealistic (money for wages. money for players., already in a job) or would be a huge gamble.
A. Can we afford to sack PP, Breaker and Kinsella and afford a new manager with the right credentials? (or)
B. Can we afford not to?
I reluctantly say B (and I kind of like PP)!
I had some sympathy for his restrictions last season/this season, to a certain point, but that old excuse has worn thin now. PP is taking us to nowheres-ville! We are not the only club to be struggling financially at the moment, nor are we the only club trying to 'gel' a new squad of players! I am sick of all the lame excuses and positives taken from games that we have underperformed in: basically it is absolute BS.
The level of our football has deteriorated (season after season) to the point where we look like bloody amateurs who cannot make even simple decisions on the pitch. The worst thing is that I fully expected us to get a drubbing yesterday, in fact I predicted 4-0 to my family. "Don't be silly" they all said!
I think we all need to wake up and realise that a line needs to be drawn NOW, sooner rather than later. To keep things as they are is as good as throwing in the towel. I cannot fathom fans saying "We haven't got a choice, we're stuck with PP, we can't afford it".
To put it simply, we cannot afford not to get rid NOW and at least give ourselves a CHANCE of changing things.PP HAS had long enough now and no-one else can be blamed (Dowie, Reid, Pardew, etc). Things are going to get far worse if PP/the current coaching set-up remains - they are absolutely useless/clueless!
I was defending PP last season and at the start of this season BUT I have had enough now. In 2 to 5 more games we will not be 14th - we will be lower. Can I just remind everyone that we are only 4 points away from the dotted line! PP has to go RIGHT NOW!
Stabilty is needed and i think the damage done by others before him has made this re-building job a bigger one than any of us imagined and that getting someone in now may be more damging than good. I also think that this year the league is going to be so tight and things can change in an instance, who is to say that we can not go to Carlisle and get a result on Saturday and go on a run then everything looks good again. S Wed had a little blip but seem to have recorved.
I think the anger at Parky is more anger of the damge that has done before.
however, that will only work if they have somebody lined up and ready to come straight in
and the difficulty with that is the man they want can name his price and ask for exhorbitant terms which can cripple the club in the future (as Pardew did in Christmas 2006)
This weekend there is the draw for the first round of the FA Cup
If we drew, say, Dartford...home or away, and went out...and this would happen way before Christmas...would those who support Parky until Christmas, or the rest of the season, continue to do so?
he's going to roll his sleeves up now. nice bloke,mind.
Even if he does this he's going to have to pull off something remarkable to keep his job going forward, once fans lose confidence like this all you are ever doing is keeping your head above water unless you can string together a ten match unbeaten run or similar.
It's sad to see because he is the one manager we've had since Curbs that I thought might suit our club from a personality point of view but the tactical and coaching weaknesses are too obvious to ignore now.
At the moment the club is in crisis similar to when he took over and it may take a someone a bit less nice to turn it around.
So perhaps RM is prepared to throw the dice one last time.
And I see that the numbers on here who would give him a max of 2/3 games to turn it around have steadily risen throughout the day from 70 per cent this morning, to stand at 75 per cent by late afternoon.
Running a story like that is not going to help his chances. He must be under so much pressure at the moment and the players must feel it too. If they're on his side, surely they will do everything within their power to get a win for him?
Just MHO of course.
Saturday was a terrible day, no question. But I still think some patience is needed.
Go now if there is someone else lined up which is unlikely as more knee jerk appointments are futile. (Extremely unrealistic unless Murray has been working behind scenes)
Between now and Christmas seriously line up a replacement. If vast improvements in results then give him to the end of his contract and assess whole season.
If not then get in a entire new team in the new year and sincerely thanks for trying your best Phil but it's time for a change.
For the life of me, I don’t want to see another change, but if we are creeping towards the bottom by the end of November, or not in the top half, then enough is enough.