The most depressing thing about today’s result is that it wasn’t terribly surprising. To be fair, 4-0 flatters Brighton a little and, as Phil Parkinson has said, at least two of their goals were very disappointing from a defensive point of view. However, Brighton proved today that they have everything Charlton don’t have; quality on the ball and the ability to pass and move and hence retain possession. I honestly don’t think Charlton were any worse today than in any of this season’s previous home games [though I missed the JPT game against Dagenham and so can’t comment on that] and there was no lack of effort. We were just up against a much better side and they cruelly exposed our weaknesses. It’s a moot point whether Brighton have better individual players, but they have a better blend, are better organised and, quite obviously, are much better coached.
Today was the third time I’ve seen Poyets’ Brighton [having watched them at the Valley in February and against Rochdale earlier this season] and they look a very good side. What really struck me today though was the type of player Poyet has chosen to acquire. The immense Radostin Kishishev is a perfect example. Today he found space, kept things simple and moved the ball on. Contrast this with Parkinson’s signing of Kyel Reid. When he gets the ball his immediate and only instinct is to get his head down and go past his opponent. Of course, when this comes off it is great to watch and sometimes creates an opening, but Reid never helps his side to keep the ball or to control the game. I know this is an extreme example, but I don’t think it is an unfair characterisation; whilst Reid and Charlton constantly went down blind alleys, Kishishev and Brighton opened doors and found space.
The overarching impression for me today was that Charlton were a side of individuals, all trying their best to make something happen, but with very little collective effort and certainly no real game plan, whilst Brighton played as a real team with intelligence and according to a clear tactical plan. Not only are Charlton not coached to play like Brighton, but Parkinson hasn’t signed the players to do it either. As I see it, this means that the “team will gel in time” rhetoric is completely empty. With these players we are destined to live with unintelligent hit and hope football. I don’t know where we go from here, but it’s very hard to see beyond a continuing, quality-less battle for points and, almost certainly, ultimate frustration and disappointment.
Until the second goal I thought we were in with a chance of turning it around, after thast all was lost. i blame the players more than I blame Parkie, but that does not mean I do not blame Parkie. Brighton were a well drilled side,probably the best league 3 side I have seen in the 18 months we have been here. The stupidity of the first goal, the back pass from jackson, which even still I thought Elliot would be able to deal with (not taking away the fault laying with jackson). I had targetted 9 points from 5 games, at least one from today, struggling to see where one will come from now.
How long do we give Parkinson? We don't -its upto Murray, he's with Parkinson at the coal face, but as the crowd becomes more and more restless either he will need to make a decision which he will only be able to avoid with results changing.
Ps Where are Hicks and Gillette when you need some investment?
Brighton played 4-1-3-2 which meant Racon and Semedo were outnumbered and so were the front two. All the space was outwide but Martin was totally uninterested and should've been off at HT and Reidy, when he did get forward was crossing the ball into the box full of Brighton players. They worked harder and the confidence with being top of the league shone through.
The Charlton players have little or no confidence, we even have some players, seemingly so low on self-esteem, they are frightened to have the ball at feet. They don't want to support a teammate in possession, they don't want to run into space and they look nothing like a team. Watching Charlton at The Valley has become a chore, for me this season is about racking up a few grounds I've not been to but quite frankly if the players don't look like they care, then why should we?
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite] Really thought we were going to turn it on today and kick start our season. Starting to doubt now whether it will ever happen.
I'm going to try to put aside my anger at today's apathetic display and attempt to be objective and rational. AFKA, I'm pretty sure you are right and the kick start is now not going to happen. Until a week or two ago, it was unclear where our season was heading. We could equally have been pushing for automatic promotion - or scrabbling to stay above the bottom four.
I think we all must now know - even dear old Oggy - just which way it is going. We've been told week after week by both Parky and Breaker that we will get better as the team starts to 'gel'. But actually, after 12 matches we are getting worse. We won three of our first six matches , but just one of our last six - and that was the awful match v MK Dons where we were so bad it was almost embarrassing to get the three points.
There have been decent passages of play - 20 mins here, occasionally even an entire half. But I honestly don't think we have played well over the course of a single match. Ironically the closest we came to it was in the first two matches of the season v Bournemouth and Orient, when we were presumably at our most 'ungelled'. In the only two games we have won since, v Nots Co and MK Dons, we were really quite ghastly to watch.
As for today, we were even more dreadful than usual. The defence was pedestrian. The midfield was non-existent (did anyone notice that Semedo and Racon were even on the park? ). As for upfront - well they made the defence look like lightning. The lumpen proletariat in action. Or rather inaction. (And I can't agree with WSS's excuses for Benson that he lacked confidence in front of goal today. He scored twice last week, didn't he? If he wasn't confident today, he never will be).
And Martin? Well those brave souls who made it down to Plymouth and told us on the strength of 45 good minutes in the second half that we were all wrong about his lack of end product and he's going to be our saviour - well, you're having a laugh, aren't you?
We're really not that far away from where we were on Nov 22, 2008 when we let in five at home v Shef U in Pardew's final match in charge. The main difference that day was that at least we scored two!
This is Parky's team and his tactics, finally free of the Pardew hangover, as even his most eloquent, articulate and reasoned defenders such as Henry Irving have admitted. There can be no more excuses - even if isn't all his fault. Yes, he was forced to sell his best players and was given no real money to build a new promotion-capable team. But he's at the very least got to get those he has assembled to play consistently and to the best of their ability. And he seems incapable of it, to be honest.
Whatever the rights or wrongs, Richard Murray has the biggest call of his career to make right now.
We must surely all accept that if things continue as they are, we will still be in div three next season. And that, we are told, will probably mean administration. So RM has to decide now whether he's prepared to gamble on a move that might save us, or keep Parky and accept the likelihood that we are going nowhere this season.
By Christmas or the New Year, it's probably going to be too late. So crunch time is now. Which is it to be, Richard - stick or twist?
I don't envy him the decision. But if Parky is going to go, it has to be now. If not, we should accept he's here until the bitter end. And I fear it will be bitter.
"Masters of our own downfall,'' the man himself reckoned in the post-match press conference. That's about right. But Parky is the one masterminding us - and so it is down to him.
And, by the way, if anyone dares to bleat ''but we're only three points off the final play-off place'', I swear I shall scream!
Mundell I don't think it is fair to compare Reid and Kish,not denying that Kish is the type of player we should have I would sugest your analogy using McCormack and even Semedo. As you say Kish takes it, moves it on and would move the ball to our wingers early creating opportunities and stoppiong defences from dropping back and stifling us.
Why we played with our best centre back Dailly at right back when Francis was back today is beyond me. Parky bought Simon Francis to be his first team right back. He was available today. It's not as if we defended well last week with the same back four... why? And then we bring him on for Fortune who was OK enough an hour into the game? I mean if you know you buggered up the system, change it after 30 mins. Change it at half-time. Don't let it go to 0-2 and panic. Totally pointless.
Of course that decision meant we had the rather hapless Gary Doherty at centre half, who quite frankly is getting embarrassing. He is like a geriatric alcoholic stumbling from one error to the next. Though Jackson didn't exactly help in the approach to the second goal, it was good old clumsy Gary who stole the show doing, well I don't think words could do justice on whatever that was. I now honestly think he's probably worse than Llera.
The central midfield is just diabolical. Racon is pretty on the ball but I will maintain a view i've aired several times to many bored people that he just isn't really much of anything. He won't score goals, quite evident from his refusal to shoot today when well placed a couple of times. He's also not a "ballwinner" or really a box-to-box midfielder and doesn't carry the ball. I really have no idea what he's in there to do. Semedo was busy today but offers nothing offensively. Paired with Racon in a 4-4-2 it's just turgid and pedestrian and there is a massive great vacuum in between the centre circle and the two up front that never ever gets filled.
Martin started brightly but seemed to fall away after taking a knock, gave 100% but no end result. Reid unfortunately looks like he may be out for a while which is a massive loss as he's easily our best player. Provided he's fit, he will not be here on January 31st 2011. Kyel Reid is pretty nearly a Premier League footballer, albeit with 10% missing and I'm afraid that 10% is vision - seeing the bigger picture and not just a playground view of the pitch and that leads to, or is exacerbated by selfishness.
The forwards? Well Benson is clearly a "goalscorer", a euphemism perhaps for, he won't offer chuffing anything unless you serve him up six yard headers and tap-ins on a plate. Hold-up play is pretty non-existent and time upon time it just bounces off him and possession is lost. Abbott tries hard but is clearly overweight and is not the player his goal-scoring record suggests at the moment.
To sum up today - we were toothless, embarrassing, generous and incapable. What a glorious mix.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]Mundell I don't think it is fair to compare Reid and Kish,not denying that Kish is the type of player we should have I would sugest your analogy using McCormack and even Semedo. As you say Kish takes it, moves it on and would move the ball to our wingers early creating opportunities and stoppiong defences from dropping back and stifling us.[/quote]
Kap10. You're right. I agree the comparison is unfair and I wasn't intending to criticise Reid; he is the player he is. I was just using an extreme example to illustrate the apparent difference in the philosophies of the two managers. Parkinson either isn't thinking clearly about how to make his team an effective unit [and that's hard to believe] or he has very deliberately opted for this "hit and hope" style we're seeing. For me that's very disappointing and money is no excuse. There are lots of teams in Division 1 with lower wage bills than Charlton.
Wouldn't it be nice if we'd resigned Kish by the way?!
Bit harsh on Doherty there ISaw but I think what you say about the midfielders is right, and probably explains why Doherty looks so bad. There is a vacuum in front of the centre halves, who aren't blessed with a great deal of pace, and this is easily exposed. To be fair the two in the middle were outnumbered, but I felt it was a job for the full backs and wingers to take the game to Brighton and they never really did. Martin did look a different player after his early knock and should have been off much earlier. The Brighton full back was backing off of Dailly all afternoon but we just didn't use him often enough and when you've got strikers that need a ball so perfect that even my nan couldn't miss then going forward is difficult enough. Have to catch up with a beer soon mate.
I thought Brighton were a class above us at everything they did and probably the best side I've seen at The Valley for a long time., and we won't be facing teams of that standard every week. Although we didn't help ourselves.
We had some chances in the 1st half, but we never really closed them down quick enough, when we got the ball we only seem to have one or two people in the box and our strikers don't make decent runs. Our centre midfield was non exsistant, our free kick delivery is awful why does it take 3 players to take a free kick?
I don't know where we really go there's no-one injured who you would say would come straight back in the side to make a difference. There's too many mistakes by people who can be better, simple things like passing we never seem to be able to put more than 2 or 3 together.
We are like a pub team with one tactic - "give it to Reidy and he can work a miracle"
We'll get nowhere with an overweight, cumbersome flapper in goal. He is beaten from long range FAR too often. Shit footwork, shit agility and zero anticipation.
We'll get nowhere with Racon in the middle with Semedo
Doherty needs to be dropped and given a rocket up his arse
At the end it was very similar to Sheff Utd for me. Having said that I left before the end and missed the 4th
[cite]Posted By: Mundell Fleming[/cite]Kap10. You're right. I agree the comparison is unfair and I wasn't intending to criticise Reid; he is the player he is. I was just using an extreme example to illustrate the apparent difference in the philosophies of the two managers. Parkinson either isn't thinking clearly about how to make his team an effective unit [and that's hard to believe] or he has very deliberately opted for this "hit and hope" style we're seeing. For me that's very disappointing and money is no excuse. There are lots of teams in Division 1 with lower wage bills than Charlton.
Wouldn't it be nice if we'd resigned Kish by the way?!
I think Parky has got a way he wants us to play, not hoof ball/hit and hope, but it is about getting down the wings and getting plenty of crosses in. Apart from that it's a bit limited, Racon and Semedo aren't creative, goalscorers or going to drive us up the pitch. Great when it works, but our only other option is putting pace up front in Anyinsah. We've not got a goalscoring CM any more, had Bailey the last few years and lesser extent Shelvey (due to him playing less often/and not quite the goalscorer Bailey was). It's not like we have a proper big lump to hoof it up to, wouldn't say any of our strikers are that type of player.
I suppose a lot of it comes down to Brighton simply playing a formation that outnumbered our midfield, that made it hard for them. Add to that Kishishev and others helping out the defence, Benson and Abbott were often outnumbered as well. Not like they get support from our CMs, and we understandably want to keep our wingers out wide.
I'm just not sure what the answer is here. We could take a gamble on another young coach/ex-player like Brighton did, but the way it's gone the last few years I can imagine us getting that completely wrong and making things worse.
[cite]Posted By: EGAddick[/cite]Have to catch up with a beer soon mate.
Definitely mate - are you going Peterborough? It's about time I started being more drunk if I have to put up with that every week.
To be fair there was so much wrong in so many different departments today I think this post-mortem is going to be epic. When things are bad, different things make a big impression on people and they get the arse with particular things other people might not have been so fixated by. Mr Doherty was definitely one of those for me today.
Why we played with our best centre back Dailly at right back when Francis was back today is beyond me. Parky bought Simon Francis to be his first team right back. He was available today. It's not as if we defended well last week with the same back four... why? And then we bring him on for Fortune who was OK enough an hour into the game? I mean if you know you buggered up the system, change it after 30 mins. Change it at half-time. Don't let it go to 0-2 and panic. Totally pointless.
Of course that decision meant we had the rather hapless Gary Doherty at centre half, who quite frankly is getting embarrassing. He is like a geriatric alcoholic stumbling from one error to the next. Though Jackson didn't exactly help in the approach to the second goal, it was good old clumsy Gary who stole the show doing, well I don't think words could do justice on whatever that was. I now honestly think he's probably worse than Llera.
The central midfield is just diabolical. Racon is pretty on the ball but I will maintain a view i've aired several times to many bored people that he just isn't really much of anything. He won't score goals, quite evident from his refusal to shoot today when well placed a couple of times. He's also not a "ballwinner" or really a box-to-box midfielder and doesn't carry the ball. I really have no idea what he's in there to do. Semedo was busy today but offers nothing offensively. Paired with Racon in a 4-4-2 it's just turgid and pedestrian and there is a massive great vacuum in between the centre circle and the two up front that never ever gets filled.
Martin started brightly but seemed to fall away after taking a knock, gave 100% but no end result. Reid unfortunately looks like he may be out for a while which is a massive loss as he's easily our best player. Provided he's fit, he will not be here on January 31st 2011. Kyel Reid is pretty nearly a Premier League footballer, albeit with 10% missing and I'm afraid that 10% is vision - seeing the bigger picture and not just a playground view of the pitch and that leads to, or is exacerbated by selfishness.
The forwards? Well Benson is clearly a "goalscorer", a euphemism perhaps for, he won't offer chuffing anything unless you serve him up six yard headers and tap-ins on a plate. Hold-up play is pretty non-existent and time upon time it just bounces off him and possession is lost. Abbott tries hard but is clearly overweight and is not the player his goal-scoring record suggests at the moment.
To sum up today - we were toothless, embarrassing, generous and incapable. What a glorious mix.
Parkinson, walk. Please.
Thanks for saving me a post. Anyone who disagrees with this wasn't there today. Sad thing is Brighton weren't great today and they didn't need to be. Well organised and much smarter than us. Says it all.
Brighton taught us how to play today, especially at league one. Simple as that. I applauded them off the pitch at the end. They deserved the points.
We started well but we couldn't stop them from passing. We lost possesion a lot, had 2 or 3 great shots at goal, but at the end of the day Brighton were so much more organised and disciplined than us. Lets hope Charlton learn from todays game.
Elliott pulled off a couple of cracking saves in the 1st half and from what i could tell could do nothing about any of the goals. the defence seemed to leave him completly exposed and not for the first time this season. The defence is just too slow and don't seem to communicate.
Time to change things around in the team. McCormack back in the middle should give us a bit more bite. Anyinsah to start alongside Abbott. I do think Benson will score goals but if he needs the ball in the box and we aren't giving it to him then whats the point in playing him. The rest of the team unfortunately we have no options. Now Reid is injured the team next week pretty much picks itself. Maybe bring Fry back in defence.
[cite]Posted By: EGAddick[/cite]Bit harsh on Doherty there ISaw but I think what you say about the midfielders is right, and probably explains why Doherty looks so bad. There is a vacuum in front of the centre halves, who aren't blessed with a great deal of pace, and this is easily exposed. To be fair the two in the middle were outnumbered, but I felt it was a job for the full backs and wingers to take the game to Brighton and they never really did. Martin did look a different player after his early knock and should have been off much earlier. The Brighton full back was backing off of Dailly all afternoon but we just didn't use him often enough and when you've got strikers that need a ball so perfect that even my nan couldn't miss then going forward is difficult enough. Have to catch up with a beer soon mate.
Don't think it is harsh on Doherty at all. He has got steadily worse over the last month. Cost us a goal at MK Dons, Plymouth and today......
[quote][cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Mundell Fleming[/cite]Kap10. You're right. I agree the comparison is unfair and I wasn't intending to criticise Reid; he is the player he is. I was just using an extreme example to illustrate the apparent difference in the philosophies of the two managers. Parkinson either isn't thinking clearly about how to make his team an effective unit [and that's hard to believe] or he has very deliberately opted for this "hit and hope" style we're seeing. For me that's very disappointing and money is no excuse. There are lots of teams in Division 1 with lower wage bills than Charlton.
Wouldn't it be nice if we'd resigned Kish by the way?![/quote] I think Parky has got a way he wants us to play, not hoof ball/hit and hope, but it is about getting down the wings and getting plenty of crosses in. Apart from that it's a bit limited, Racon and Semedo aren't creative, goalscorers or going to drive us up the pitch. Great when it works, but our only other option is putting pace up front in Anyinsah. We've not got a goalscoring CM any more, had Bailey the last few years and lesser extent Shelvey (due to him playing less often/and not quite the goalscorer Bailey was). It's not like we have a proper big lump to hoof it up to, wouldn't say any of our strikers are that type of player.
I suppose a lot of it comes down to Brighton simply playing a formation that outnumbered our midfield, that made it hard for them. Add to that Kishishev and others helping out the defence, Benson and Abbott were often outnumbered as well. Not like they get support from our CMs, and we understandably want to keep our wingers out wide.
I'm just not sure what the answer is here. We could take a gamble on another young coach/ex-player like Brighton did, but the way it's gone the last few years I can imagine us getting that completely wrong and making things worse.[/quote]
I don't disagree with this view of Parkinson's strategy, but the problem is that the wide players get very little quality service and this, in turn, relates to the weakness in ball retention. Worse still, it seems that none of the wide players is a particularly good crosser of the ball.
Given this I continue to be surprised that Parkinson hasn't modified his preferred system to play with a narrower midfield and just one wide player, for example. Is Fry injured? I thought he did very well against MK Dons; using him at left back then frees Jackson to push forward into midfield. Why has the manager abandoned that system?
On the Dailly at right back point - he had a good game there last week and Francis has been an absolute liability lately. He was less than impressive for their 4th too when he came on.
Today was much like what we've seen all season. We don't track runners, we gift soft goals, we lose the midfield battle, we give teams far too much space, we're 1 (or sometimes 0) dimensional going forward.
But the worst thing is that week in week out, the other team want it more than us. It's not good enough.
Posted without reading so apologies for any duplication.
First half quite absorbing even steven contest. A defensive aberration at a corner cost us a goal. We responded in the right way though and Reidy might easily have equalised before half time.
At half time I was disappointed we had conceded but by no means despondent as I fancied us getting back in it.
Second half though a 36 year old former international grasped the midfield and bossed it. The Charlton midfield went walkabout for most of the half, Semedo as well as Racon the usual culprit. Jackson dropped a horrendous howler for sure in playing Murray (I think) in but these things happen. The real problems were higher up the pitch. Little or no service for our strikers from the midfield or support for the back 4.
The result didn't surprise me in that I've never thought we are any better than mid table third division. What was gutting though was watching a 36 year old Kishishev, in the twilight of his career, giving 90 minutes, driving his team on, playing the simple ball, making himself available and telling others where they should be. I'm depressed because today brought home all too starkly how far we have fallen as Kish was leagues above our poxy midfield.
Lee Martin is a waste of space. He keeps coming to the ball when Dailly has it instead of running into the massive space on the wing in front of him. Useless. Not winning the first or second ball. Not anticipating flick ons. Abbot and Benson can't play together. Long ball game is not working. Semedo and Racon in the centre doesn't work. Reid is the only one who has looked like creating anything.
That was during the match at 2-0 up and I can't say anything changed. Our only bright sparks were Francis, Anyinsah and Wagstaff when they came on, and Reid. I can't fault Jackson for their third goal, but he shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place.
It seems that our goals are going to come from corners (not those that are sent far post to Docherty to head back across goal...something that DOES NOT WORK!), and those corners come from deflections off opposition players from wayward passes and crosses, not shots. We can't seem to get anyone in the box, and when we do we're outmuscled. Fair play to every team that's played us by defending extremely well, especially shutting down Reid. Why we're scared to shoot from afar bar Martin and Reid (see Racon's massive chance to shoot today in the 2nd half but made a poor pass).
We lack schoolboy tactics...that is basic defending, closing down the ball, anticipating flick ons, winning the 2nd ball.
I'm not disheartened that we lost to Brighton today, they are the team at the top of the league at the end of the day, I'm more disappointed that we cannot seem to string two passes together, cannot defend, and seem to be lacklustered and disinterested and have 3 plans: A) how we begin; switch the wingers onto opposite sides; C) if all else fails lump it upfield.
We've had 4 managers in the last 5 years, yet we always seem to play the same.
Christ on a bike... My friend has had a season ticket for 15 years. The Dagenahm game was the first time he has ever left before the end of the game. Today was the second. I mean really... We are so much better than this. Even now, even this team with this management... We are still better than THIS.
[cite]Posted By: Mundell Fleming[/cite]
Wouldn't it be nice if we'd resigned Kish by the way?!
Agreed. Followed by the free-scoring Fleetwood and Leon McKenzie, Cory Gibbs, who is reportedly playing out of his skin in the US, the born-again Lloyd Sam, Darren Randolph (as Elliot is rapidly turning into hte new Sasa Ilic) et al.
But can we draw the line at Chris Dickson, please ?
[cite]Posted By: EastStand[/cite]Christ on a bike... My friend has had a season ticket for 15 years. The Dagenahm game was the first time he has ever left before the end of the game. Today was the second. I mean really... We are so much better than this. Even now, even this team with this management... We are still better than THIS.
I keep looking at the team sheet - we've got the players - why can't the management get them playing together?
[cite]Posted By: EastStand[/cite]Christ on a bike... My friend has had a season ticket for 15 years. The Dagenahm game was the first time he has ever left before the end of the game. Today was the second. I mean really... We are so much better than this. Even now, even this team with this management... We are still better than THIS.
I keep looking at the team sheet - we've got the players - why can't the management get them playing together?
They can but not for 90 minutes and therein lies the problem. First half we were at least as good as Brighton even though we went in 1-0 down.
[quote][cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: EGAddick[/cite]Have to catch up with a beer soon mate.[/quote]
Definitely mate - are you going Peterborough? It's about time I started being more drunk if I have to put up with that every week.
To be fair there was so much wrong in so many different departments today I think this post-mortem is going to be epic. When things are bad, different things make a big impression on people and they get the arse with particular things other people might not have been so fixated by. Mr Doherty was definitely one of those for me today.[/quote]
Yep and Southend as well, hopefully we'll get a good draw in the FA Cup and it'll be a decent week.
Comments
Today was the third time I’ve seen Poyets’ Brighton [having watched them at the Valley in February and against Rochdale earlier this season] and they look a very good side. What really struck me today though was the type of player Poyet has chosen to acquire. The immense Radostin Kishishev is a perfect example. Today he found space, kept things simple and moved the ball on. Contrast this with Parkinson’s signing of Kyel Reid. When he gets the ball his immediate and only instinct is to get his head down and go past his opponent. Of course, when this comes off it is great to watch and sometimes creates an opening, but Reid never helps his side to keep the ball or to control the game. I know this is an extreme example, but I don’t think it is an unfair characterisation; whilst Reid and Charlton constantly went down blind alleys, Kishishev and Brighton opened doors and found space.
The overarching impression for me today was that Charlton were a side of individuals, all trying their best to make something happen, but with very little collective effort and certainly no real game plan, whilst Brighton played as a real team with intelligence and according to a clear tactical plan. Not only are Charlton not coached to play like Brighton, but Parkinson hasn’t signed the players to do it either. As I see it, this means that the “team will gel in time” rhetoric is completely empty. With these players we are destined to live with unintelligent hit and hope football. I don’t know where we go from here, but it’s very hard to see beyond a continuing, quality-less battle for points and, almost certainly, ultimate frustration and disappointment.
How long do we give Parkinson? We don't -its upto Murray, he's with Parkinson at the coal face, but as the crowd becomes more and more restless either he will need to make a decision which he will only be able to avoid with results changing.
Ps Where are Hicks and Gillette when you need some investment?
The Charlton players have little or no confidence, we even have some players, seemingly so low on self-esteem, they are frightened to have the ball at feet. They don't want to support a teammate in possession, they don't want to run into space and they look nothing like a team. Watching Charlton at The Valley has become a chore, for me this season is about racking up a few grounds I've not been to but quite frankly if the players don't look like they care, then why should we?
I'm going to try to put aside my anger at today's apathetic display and attempt to be objective and rational. AFKA, I'm pretty sure you are right and the kick start is now not going to happen. Until a week or two ago, it was unclear where our season was heading. We could equally have been pushing for automatic promotion - or scrabbling to stay above the bottom four.
I think we all must now know - even dear old Oggy - just which way it is going. We've been told week after week by both Parky and Breaker that we will get better as the team starts to 'gel'. But actually, after 12 matches we are getting worse. We won three of our first six matches , but just one of our last six - and that was the awful match v MK Dons where we were so bad it was almost embarrassing to get the three points.
There have been decent passages of play - 20 mins here, occasionally even an entire half. But I honestly don't think we have played well over the course of a single match. Ironically the closest we came to it was in the first two matches of the season v Bournemouth and Orient, when we were presumably at our most 'ungelled'. In the only two games we have won since, v Nots Co and MK Dons, we were really quite ghastly to watch.
As for today, we were even more dreadful than usual. The defence was pedestrian. The midfield was non-existent (did anyone notice that Semedo and Racon were even on the park? ). As for upfront - well they made the defence look like lightning. The lumpen proletariat in action. Or rather inaction. (And I can't agree with WSS's excuses for Benson that he lacked confidence in front of goal today. He scored twice last week, didn't he? If he wasn't confident today, he never will be).
And Martin? Well those brave souls who made it down to Plymouth and told us on the strength of 45 good minutes in the second half that we were all wrong about his lack of end product and he's going to be our saviour - well, you're having a laugh, aren't you?
We're really not that far away from where we were on Nov 22, 2008 when we let in five at home v Shef U in Pardew's final match in charge. The main difference that day was that at least we scored two!
This is Parky's team and his tactics, finally free of the Pardew hangover, as even his most eloquent, articulate and reasoned defenders such as Henry Irving have admitted. There can be no more excuses - even if isn't all his fault. Yes, he was forced to sell his best players and was given no real money to build a new promotion-capable team. But he's at the very least got to get those he has assembled to play consistently and to the best of their ability. And he seems incapable of it, to be honest.
Whatever the rights or wrongs, Richard Murray has the biggest call of his career to make right now.
We must surely all accept that if things continue as they are, we will still be in div three next season. And that, we are told, will probably mean administration. So RM has to decide now whether he's prepared to gamble on a move that might save us, or keep Parky and accept the likelihood that we are going nowhere this season.
By Christmas or the New Year, it's probably going to be too late. So crunch time is now. Which is it to be, Richard - stick or twist?
I don't envy him the decision. But if Parky is going to go, it has to be now. If not, we should accept he's here until the bitter end. And I fear it will be bitter.
"Masters of our own downfall,'' the man himself reckoned in the post-match press conference. That's about right. But Parky is the one masterminding us - and so it is down to him.
And, by the way, if anyone dares to bleat ''but we're only three points off the final play-off place'', I swear I shall scream!
Out fought
Out classed
Out thought
Out Parkinson[/quote]
End of!
Why we played with our best centre back Dailly at right back when Francis was back today is beyond me. Parky bought Simon Francis to be his first team right back. He was available today. It's not as if we defended well last week with the same back four... why? And then we bring him on for Fortune who was OK enough an hour into the game? I mean if you know you buggered up the system, change it after 30 mins. Change it at half-time. Don't let it go to 0-2 and panic. Totally pointless.
Of course that decision meant we had the rather hapless Gary Doherty at centre half, who quite frankly is getting embarrassing. He is like a geriatric alcoholic stumbling from one error to the next. Though Jackson didn't exactly help in the approach to the second goal, it was good old clumsy Gary who stole the show doing, well I don't think words could do justice on whatever that was. I now honestly think he's probably worse than Llera.
The central midfield is just diabolical. Racon is pretty on the ball but I will maintain a view i've aired several times to many bored people that he just isn't really much of anything. He won't score goals, quite evident from his refusal to shoot today when well placed a couple of times. He's also not a "ballwinner" or really a box-to-box midfielder and doesn't carry the ball. I really have no idea what he's in there to do. Semedo was busy today but offers nothing offensively. Paired with Racon in a 4-4-2 it's just turgid and pedestrian and there is a massive great vacuum in between the centre circle and the two up front that never ever gets filled.
Martin started brightly but seemed to fall away after taking a knock, gave 100% but no end result. Reid unfortunately looks like he may be out for a while which is a massive loss as he's easily our best player. Provided he's fit, he will not be here on January 31st 2011. Kyel Reid is pretty nearly a Premier League footballer, albeit with 10% missing and I'm afraid that 10% is vision - seeing the bigger picture and not just a playground view of the pitch and that leads to, or is exacerbated by selfishness.
The forwards? Well Benson is clearly a "goalscorer", a euphemism perhaps for, he won't offer chuffing anything unless you serve him up six yard headers and tap-ins on a plate. Hold-up play is pretty non-existent and time upon time it just bounces off him and possession is lost. Abbott tries hard but is clearly overweight and is not the player his goal-scoring record suggests at the moment.
To sum up today - we were toothless, embarrassing, generous and incapable. What a glorious mix.
Parkinson, walk. Please.
Kap10. You're right. I agree the comparison is unfair and I wasn't intending to criticise Reid; he is the player he is. I was just using an extreme example to illustrate the apparent difference in the philosophies of the two managers. Parkinson either isn't thinking clearly about how to make his team an effective unit [and that's hard to believe] or he has very deliberately opted for this "hit and hope" style we're seeing. For me that's very disappointing and money is no excuse. There are lots of teams in Division 1 with lower wage bills than Charlton.
Wouldn't it be nice if we'd resigned Kish by the way?!
We had some chances in the 1st half, but we never really closed them down quick enough, when we got the ball we only seem to have one or two people in the box and our strikers don't make decent runs. Our centre midfield was non exsistant, our free kick delivery is awful why does it take 3 players to take a free kick?
I don't know where we really go there's no-one injured who you would say would come straight back in the side to make a difference. There's too many mistakes by people who can be better, simple things like passing we never seem to be able to put more than 2 or 3 together.
We'll get nowhere with an overweight, cumbersome flapper in goal. He is beaten from long range FAR too often. Shit footwork, shit agility and zero anticipation.
We'll get nowhere with Racon in the middle with Semedo
Doherty needs to be dropped and given a rocket up his arse
At the end it was very similar to Sheff Utd for me. Having said that I left before the end and missed the 4th
I suppose a lot of it comes down to Brighton simply playing a formation that outnumbered our midfield, that made it hard for them. Add to that Kishishev and others helping out the defence, Benson and Abbott were often outnumbered as well. Not like they get support from our CMs, and we understandably want to keep our wingers out wide.
I'm just not sure what the answer is here. We could take a gamble on another young coach/ex-player like Brighton did, but the way it's gone the last few years I can imagine us getting that completely wrong and making things worse.
Definitely mate - are you going Peterborough? It's about time I started being more drunk if I have to put up with that every week.
To be fair there was so much wrong in so many different departments today I think this post-mortem is going to be epic. When things are bad, different things make a big impression on people and they get the arse with particular things other people might not have been so fixated by. Mr Doherty was definitely one of those for me today.
Thanks for saving me a post. Anyone who disagrees with this wasn't there today. Sad thing is Brighton weren't great today and they didn't need to be. Well organised and much smarter than us. Says it all.
We started well but we couldn't stop them from passing. We lost possesion a lot, had 2 or 3 great shots at goal, but at the end of the day Brighton were so much more organised and disciplined than us. Lets hope Charlton learn from todays game.
Elliott pulled off a couple of cracking saves in the 1st half and from what i could tell could do nothing about any of the goals. the defence seemed to leave him completly exposed and not for the first time this season. The defence is just too slow and don't seem to communicate.
Time to change things around in the team. McCormack back in the middle should give us a bit more bite. Anyinsah to start alongside Abbott. I do think Benson will score goals but if he needs the ball in the box and we aren't giving it to him then whats the point in playing him. The rest of the team unfortunately we have no options. Now Reid is injured the team next week pretty much picks itself. Maybe bring Fry back in defence.
Don't think it is harsh on Doherty at all. He has got steadily worse over the last month. Cost us a goal at MK Dons, Plymouth and today......
Wouldn't it be nice if we'd resigned Kish by the way?![/quote]
I think Parky has got a way he wants us to play, not hoof ball/hit and hope, but it is about getting down the wings and getting plenty of crosses in. Apart from that it's a bit limited, Racon and Semedo aren't creative, goalscorers or going to drive us up the pitch. Great when it works, but our only other option is putting pace up front in Anyinsah. We've not got a goalscoring CM any more, had Bailey the last few years and lesser extent Shelvey (due to him playing less often/and not quite the goalscorer Bailey was). It's not like we have a proper big lump to hoof it up to, wouldn't say any of our strikers are that type of player.
I suppose a lot of it comes down to Brighton simply playing a formation that outnumbered our midfield, that made it hard for them. Add to that Kishishev and others helping out the defence, Benson and Abbott were often outnumbered as well. Not like they get support from our CMs, and we understandably want to keep our wingers out wide.
I'm just not sure what the answer is here. We could take a gamble on another young coach/ex-player like Brighton did, but the way it's gone the last few years I can imagine us getting that completely wrong and making things worse.[/quote]
I don't disagree with this view of Parkinson's strategy, but the problem is that the wide players get very little quality service and this, in turn, relates to the weakness in ball retention. Worse still, it seems that none of the wide players is a particularly good crosser of the ball.
Given this I continue to be surprised that Parkinson hasn't modified his preferred system to play with a narrower midfield and just one wide player, for example. Is Fry injured? I thought he did very well against MK Dons; using him at left back then frees Jackson to push forward into midfield. Why has the manager abandoned that system?
Today was much like what we've seen all season. We don't track runners, we gift soft goals, we lose the midfield battle, we give teams far too much space, we're 1 (or sometimes 0) dimensional going forward.
But the worst thing is that week in week out, the other team want it more than us. It's not good enough.
I don't know what the answer is.
SHOCKING
First half quite absorbing even steven contest. A defensive aberration at a corner cost us a goal. We responded in the right way though and Reidy might easily have equalised before half time.
At half time I was disappointed we had conceded but by no means despondent as I fancied us getting back in it.
Second half though a 36 year old former international grasped the midfield and bossed it. The Charlton midfield went walkabout for most of the half, Semedo as well as Racon the usual culprit. Jackson dropped a horrendous howler for sure in playing Murray (I think) in but these things happen. The real problems were higher up the pitch. Little or no service for our strikers from the midfield or support for the back 4.
The result didn't surprise me in that I've never thought we are any better than mid table third division. What was gutting though was watching a 36 year old Kishishev, in the twilight of his career, giving 90 minutes, driving his team on, playing the simple ball, making himself available and telling others where they should be. I'm depressed because today brought home all too starkly how far we have fallen as Kish was leagues above our poxy midfield.
Sadly I must say charlton looked a average div team
Benson and abbott looked poor and not up to the mark
My team won, off to the dons next week
Lee Martin is a waste of space. He keeps coming to the ball when Dailly has it instead of running into the massive space on the wing in front of him. Useless. Not winning the first or second ball. Not anticipating flick ons. Abbot and Benson can't play together. Long ball game is not working. Semedo and Racon in the centre doesn't work. Reid is the only one who has looked like creating anything.
That was during the match at 2-0 up and I can't say anything changed. Our only bright sparks were Francis, Anyinsah and Wagstaff when they came on, and Reid. I can't fault Jackson for their third goal, but he shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place.
It seems that our goals are going to come from corners (not those that are sent far post to Docherty to head back across goal...something that DOES NOT WORK!), and those corners come from deflections off opposition players from wayward passes and crosses, not shots. We can't seem to get anyone in the box, and when we do we're outmuscled. Fair play to every team that's played us by defending extremely well, especially shutting down Reid. Why we're scared to shoot from afar bar Martin and Reid (see Racon's massive chance to shoot today in the 2nd half but made a poor pass).
We lack schoolboy tactics...that is basic defending, closing down the ball, anticipating flick ons, winning the 2nd ball.
I'm not disheartened that we lost to Brighton today, they are the team at the top of the league at the end of the day, I'm more disappointed that we cannot seem to string two passes together, cannot defend, and seem to be lacklustered and disinterested and have 3 plans: A) how we begin;
We've had 4 managers in the last 5 years, yet we always seem to play the same.
Agreed. Followed by the free-scoring Fleetwood and Leon McKenzie, Cory Gibbs, who is reportedly playing out of his skin in the US, the born-again Lloyd Sam, Darren Randolph (as Elliot is rapidly turning into hte new Sasa Ilic) et al.
But can we draw the line at Chris Dickson, please ?
I keep looking at the team sheet - we've got the players - why can't the management get them playing together?
They can but not for 90 minutes and therein lies the problem. First half we were at least as good as Brighton even though we went in 1-0 down.
Definitely mate - are you going Peterborough? It's about time I started being more drunk if I have to put up with that every week.
To be fair there was so much wrong in so many different departments today I think this post-mortem is going to be epic. When things are bad, different things make a big impression on people and they get the arse with particular things other people might not have been so fixated by. Mr Doherty was definitely one of those for me today.[/quote]
Yep and Southend as well, hopefully we'll get a good draw in the FA Cup and it'll be a decent week.