[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]the last team to drop from the prem to div 3 within 2 seasons of relegation from the premiership was man city in 1998 ....
they got promoted from div 3 immediately
yes the last time...
but look at Norwich, Southampton, Sheff Weds, Leeds, Forest, Liecester...
football is a very different game to what it used to be..
So, because other teams have dropped from the Premiership to Division 3/League One, it's alright that Charlton have then?!
WTF?! Murray is a genuinely good man who we have EVERYTHING to thank him for in the early Premiership years. However, we also have a lot of questions that not just a collective few on here have asked over the last 3 - 4 years and for that, I'm going to think it was more decision making by a collaborative rather than just one man.
The rest have gone - Richard now has his chance to show us that he knows what he's doing.
Given a choice - the status quo or Murray going solo, I'm on board with Captain Richard!
I must say Nick Gray's latest post 606 did make me laugh...
[cite]Posted By: Vol au vent Addick [/cite]Do you remember Eddie the Eagle at the Winter Olympics? Every time he soared through the sky, and every time he plunged in failure. After a while, you just suspected he was not very good. That is how I feel about Charlton under this fella. That he was rucksacked by the genius of Curbs for 14 years, and that like Icarus, he then soared too close to the sun and got his wings singed after AC departed. My genuine belief is that his track record points very firmly to him leading us into Div 4 and back to 5,000 crowds unless we are not very careful. Not because he is a bad bloke. Not because people don't like him. But because, like Eddie the Eagle, he is just not very good. quote]
[cite]Posted By: supaclive[/cite]So, because other teams have dropped from the Premiership to Division 3/League One, it's alright that Charlton have then?!
it appears so and unless you fall into line then you'll be branded a wum
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I still can't get my head fully around this.
Have a feeling that we are only going on 50% at best of the information.
Certainly don't think this is the last we'll hear about this over the coming months.
Have a feeling your right...
Murray has said he has nothing else to put in... So how long can he remain in sole control?
As with the supposed recent Liverpool link up, I'll be happy about it when I see a real positive change, for us....
[cite]Posted By: mascot88[/cite]clubs drop from prem to div 3 all the time....
not quite at the speed we managed it though!!
Without checking, I suspect that all the teams who've dropped from prem to div 3 have done it in a similar timescale:
Norwich
Southampton
Leeds
Swindon
Oldham
Bradford
It's seems the pattern is such that if you don't bounce back at the first attempt then there's a good chance of going down. If you still don't bounce back at the second attempt then you are almost certain to either go down or finish very close to going down.
Last season Hull, Pompey and Burnley got relegated, I would confidently predict at least one of those will be relegated again within 2 years.
No your are branded a WUM because you think that the fact that people are being asked to volunteer to help clean up the stadium, it is pathetic..not sensible for a club that is skint..
also the fact that the Lunitic is running the assylum
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I still can't get my head fully around this.
Have a feeling that we are only going on 50% at best of the information.
Certainly don't think this is the last we'll hear about this over the coming months.
Murray has said he has nothing else to put in... So how long can he remain in sole control?
yes but that was before Celador won their court case, awarded £178m, in the USA against the distributors of I Want To Be A Millionaire. I don't think RM is involved with Celador now, sold a few years ago to Endemol, but he was when this occured and he and the other three involved are sharing a pretty hefty pay-off. I read somewhere that Jaspar Carrott, one of the other three, was going to get £13m so Minty is minted again.
2 and 2 making 5. this is an old link regarding sebastian sainsbury. as well documentated.. it could be that Rcihard Murray has set up the company and has added his name.
Maybe Sebastian IS involved with Murray and has either a) The funds now or b) Murray is waiting for him to tansfer the funds into the company account. Onve the money is in the company account then its full scale ahead for a takeover/investment.
Then Murray gets a payoff when sold and/or Murray stays as a Director of Football role overseeing the football side of it.
This Charlton Athletic 2010/2011 is and investment company Murray has set up making sure everything is safe and that the money is in the business acocount of that company. Just my thoughts
Avesco Group plc ("Avesco" or the "Company"), the provider of services to the corporate presentation, entertainment and broadcast markets, announces that one of its directors, Richard Murray, the non-executive deputy Chairman, has pledged 3,880,492 ordinary shares in the Company as collateral for a loan entered into today.
Richard Murray remains the registered holder and beneficial owner of the shares in Avesco referred to above and holds, in aggregate, 4,999,363 shares, representing 19.2 per cent of Avesco's issued share capital. He retains control of the voting rights attached to such shares. The total number of Avesco shares in issue is 25.98 million, of which 0.96 million are held in Treasury.
UNQUOTE
Avesco share price seems to be around 74.5p giving market cap of £18.64m, meaning RM's shareholding is currently worth £3.58m and the shares pledged as collateral for the loan referred to are worth £2.77m.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: joeaddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I still can't get my head fully around this.
[b]Have a feeling that we are only going on 50% at best of the information[/b].
Certainly don't think this is the last we'll hear about this over the coming months.[/quote]
Murray has said he has nothing else to put in... So how long can he remain in sole control?[/quote]
yes but that was before Celador won their court case, awarded £178m, in the USA against the distributors of I Want To Be A Millionaire. I don't think RM is involved with Celador now, sold a few years ago to Endemol, but he was when this occured and he and the other three involved are sharing a pretty hefty pay-off. I read somewhere that Jaspar Carrott, one of the other three, was going to get £13m so Minty is minted again.[/quote]
Avesco (Minty's company) got $50 million and the share price jumped 43% on news of the award.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I still can't get my head fully around this.
Have a feeling that we are only going on 50% at best of the information.
Certainly don't think this is the last we'll hear about this over the coming months.
Murray has said he has nothing else to put in... So how long can he remain in sole control?
yes but that was before Celador won their court case, awarded £178m, in the USA against the distributors of I Want To Be A Millionaire. I don't think RM is involved with Celador now, sold a few years ago to Endemol, but he was when this occured and he and the other three involved are sharing a pretty hefty pay-off. I read somewhere that Jaspar Carrott, one of the other three, was going to get £13m so Minty is minted again.
Avesco (Minty's company) got $50 million and the share price jumped 43% on news of the award.
You're right QA but it came from a low base and with under 20% iof the company, I don't think RM's Avesco shareholding will be bankrolling a push for the Prem.
all this 2nd guessing is just as confusing to me..
Maybe RM has more time on his hands these days after his health scare and he is looking to relax (football not the ideal choice for most) but he may now feel he has more time to put in and he wants to do so and not have to answer to several people before he makes decisions..
Management buy-out
Minty's compo for WWTBAM
The setting up of CAFC 2010 Limited (by Minty or others)
Minty pledging nearly 4m in shares so his company Avesco can lend some money
too much happening at the same time for it to be co-incidental
now if only we had an investigative journalist on here ...........
Hi I'm a long time 'lurker' preferring to read other's opinions rather than put in my pennys worth - but based on what we know so far I would have thought the most plausible explanation is not that Murray’s move is part of some deal with Sainsbury but is more probably a reaction against it?
As others have said Sebastian Sainsbury is unlikely to have registered a new company called Charlton Athletic 2010 ltd unless he was already in (fairly advanced?) negotiations to take control of the club (and someone has suggested that he would also have needed CAFC’s permission to use the name?).
Sainsbury tried to buy Leeds in 2004/5 but apparently it fell through because he couldn’t produce the cash (it seems that although he is wealthy – grandson of the supermarket founder etc – he wanted to use borrowed money rather than his own).
Sainsbury registered Charlton Athletic 2010 ltd on 16/07/10 and then 11 days later on 27/07/10 it was announced that Richard Murray had “agreed terms with his fellow plc board directors and bondholders for the purchase of shares in Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd and Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd which will see him assume sole control of the football club” – about the same time that Murray came into extra money from the settlement over the rights of ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire’ with Disney – which increased the value of his shares in Avesco & allowed him to borrow against their value.
It seems unlikely that Murray would have bought the others out if a deal with Sainsbury was imminent – in that case surely they would all have sold their shares (probably at a knockdown) to Sainsbury? It seems far more likely that Sainsbury’s proposal fell though (like Leeds) or was unacceptable – or the new cash persuaded Murray to go on his own - but he had to buy out the others to do this?
However, as someone else also pointed out Murray clearly sees this as a short term move pending some expected or hoped for further investment(?) as he said "I shall be appointing a new interim board of directors, and we will now go forward and actively seek new investment”.
Just my reading of the situation – what do people think?
[cite]Posted By: micks1950[/cite]Hi I'm a long time 'lurker' preferring to read other's opinions rather than put in my pennys worth - but based on what we know so far I would have thought the most plausible explanation is not that Murray’s move is part of some deal with Sainsbury but is more probably a reaction against it?
As others have said Sebastian Sainsbury is unlikely to have registered a new company called Charlton Athletic 2010 ltd unless he was already in (fairly advanced?) negotiations to take control of the club (and someone has suggested that he would also have needed CAFC’s permission to use the name?).
Sainsbury tried to buy Leeds in 2004/5 but apparently it fell through because he couldn’t produce the cash (it seems that although he is wealthy – grandson of the supermarket founder etc – he wanted to use borrowed money rather than his own).
Sainsbury registered Charlton Athletic 2010 ltd on 16/07/10 and then 11 days later on 27/07/10 it was announced that Richard Murray had “agreed terms with his fellow plc board directors and bondholders for the purchase of shares in Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd and Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd which will see him assume sole control of the football club” – about the same time that Murray came into extra money from the settlement over the rights of ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire’ with Disney – which increased the value of his shares in Avesco & allowed him to borrow against their value.
It seems unlikely that Murray would have bought the others out if a deal with Sainsbury was imminent – in that case surely they would all have sold their shares (probably at a knockdown) to Sainsbury? It seems far more likely that Sainsbury’s proposal fell though (like Leeds) or was unacceptable – or the new cash persuaded Murray to go on his own - but he had to buy out the others to do this?
However, as someone else also pointed out Murray clearly sees this as a short term move pending some expected or hoped for further investment(?) as he said "I shall be appointing a new interim board of directors, and we will now go forward and actively seek new investment”.
Just my reading of the situation – what do people think?
That does sound possible Mick, good post. We'll probably never know all the details and I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear anything about Sainsbury.
[cite]Posted By: micks1950[/cite]
It seems unlikely that Murray would have bought the others out if a deal with Sainsbury was imminent –
while you're most likely right, the other possibility is that by doing this it then clears the way for a takeover. as a number of directors had loaned money to the club. It would be much better for everyone if they sold their shares at a knock-down price in order to get the money that they had lent back. For insistence, say one of the directors lent the club £2m, his shares are worth £3m. Murray gets him to agree to sell his shares and settle the loan for a combined £4m. So in one respect the director is losing a £1m. However if this was stoping a takeover and risking the possibility of administration, then better to take a small hit then a major hit if this was to happen. So this way he at least gets most of his money back. Getting all the directors to agree to this kind of settlement clears up the majority of the club’s debt. This smooths the process of a takeover, because now they're are dealing just with Murray rather than having to enter into lengthy negations with all the directors which the club owes money to. I believe this was one of the reasons that Zeebel pulled out, because the club's debts were in the hands of the majority shareholders; meaning in order take over the club Zeebel would have had to pay £40m for a club thats worth £20m.
[cite]Posted By: micks1950[/cite]about the same time that Murray came into extra money from the settlement over the rights of ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire’ with Disney – which increased the value of his shares in Avesco & allowed him to borrow against their value.
excellent post. However the settlement with Disney would not have increased the value of his shares in Avesco because it wasn't Avesco who owned the rights to WWTBAM it was Celador, a company that RM previously had a stake in which sold the rights to Millionaire a few years ago to Endemol. Avesco is RM's company. What the loan is for is anyone's guess but the loan would be to Avesco as opposed to RM himself I would have thought.
Comments
yes the last time...
but look at Norwich, Southampton, Sheff Weds, Leeds, Forest, Liecester...
football is a very different game to what it used to be..
bradford,swindon,oldham,
WTF?! Murray is a genuinely good man who we have EVERYTHING to thank him for in the early Premiership years. However, we also have a lot of questions that not just a collective few on here have asked over the last 3 - 4 years and for that, I'm going to think it was more decision making by a collaborative rather than just one man.
The rest have gone - Richard now has his chance to show us that he knows what he's doing.
Given a choice - the status quo or Murray going solo, I'm on board with Captain Richard!
Have a feeling that we are only going on 50% at best of the information.
Certainly don't think this is the last we'll hear about this over the coming months.
it appears so and unless you fall into line then you'll be branded a wum
Have a feeling your right...
Murray has said he has nothing else to put in... So how long can he remain in sole control?
As with the supposed recent Liverpool link up, I'll be happy about it when I see a real positive change, for us....
not quite at the speed we managed it though!!
Without checking, I suspect that all the teams who've dropped from prem to div 3 have done it in a similar timescale:
Norwich
Southampton
Leeds
Swindon
Oldham
Bradford
It's seems the pattern is such that if you don't bounce back at the first attempt then there's a good chance of going down. If you still don't bounce back at the second attempt then you are almost certain to either go down or finish very close to going down.
Last season Hull, Pompey and Burnley got relegated, I would confidently predict at least one of those will be relegated again within 2 years.
also the fact that the Lunitic is running the assylum
yes but that was before Celador won their court case, awarded £178m, in the USA against the distributors of I Want To Be A Millionaire. I don't think RM is involved with Celador now, sold a few years ago to Endemol, but he was when this occured and he and the other three involved are sharing a pretty hefty pay-off. I read somewhere that Jaspar Carrott, one of the other three, was going to get £13m so Minty is minted again.
Maybe Sebastian IS involved with Murray and has either a) The funds now or b) Murray is waiting for him to tansfer the funds into the company account. Onve the money is in the company account then its full scale ahead for a takeover/investment.
Then Murray gets a payoff when sold and/or Murray stays as a Director of Football role overseeing the football side of it.
This Charlton Athletic 2010/2011 is and investment company Murray has set up making sure everything is safe and that the money is in the business acocount of that company. Just my thoughts
QUOTE
28 July 2010
Avesco Group plc
Director shareholding
Avesco Group plc ("Avesco" or the "Company"), the provider of services to the corporate presentation, entertainment and broadcast markets, announces that one of its directors, Richard Murray, the non-executive deputy Chairman, has pledged 3,880,492 ordinary shares in the Company as collateral for a loan entered into today.
Richard Murray remains the registered holder and beneficial owner of the shares in Avesco referred to above and holds, in aggregate, 4,999,363 shares, representing 19.2 per cent of Avesco's issued share capital. He retains control of the voting rights attached to such shares. The total number of Avesco shares in issue is 25.98 million, of which 0.96 million are held in Treasury.
UNQUOTE
Avesco share price seems to be around 74.5p giving market cap of £18.64m, meaning RM's shareholding is currently worth £3.58m and the shares pledged as collateral for the loan referred to are worth £2.77m.
[b]Have a feeling that we are only going on 50% at best of the information[/b].
Certainly don't think this is the last we'll hear about this over the coming months.[/quote]
Murray has said he has nothing else to put in... So how long can he remain in sole control?[/quote]
yes but that was before Celador won their court case, awarded £178m, in the USA against the distributors of I Want To Be A Millionaire. I don't think RM is involved with Celador now, sold a few years ago to Endemol, but he was when this occured and he and the other three involved are sharing a pretty hefty pay-off. I read somewhere that Jaspar Carrott, one of the other three, was going to get £13m so Minty is minted again.[/quote]
Avesco (Minty's company) got $50 million and the share price jumped 43% on news of the award.
You're right QA but it came from a low base and with under 20% iof the company, I don't think RM's Avesco shareholding will be bankrolling a push for the Prem.
Maybe RM has more time on his hands these days after his health scare and he is looking to relax (football not the ideal choice for most) but he may now feel he has more time to put in and he wants to do so and not have to answer to several people before he makes decisions..
I think we will find out soon enough
Management buy-out
Minty's compo for WWTBAM
The setting up of CAFC 2010 Limited (by Minty or others)
Minty pledging nearly 4m in shares so his company Avesco can lend some money
too much happening at the same time for it to be co-incidental
now if only we had an investigative journalist on here ...........
As others have said Sebastian Sainsbury is unlikely to have registered a new company called Charlton Athletic 2010 ltd unless he was already in (fairly advanced?) negotiations to take control of the club (and someone has suggested that he would also have needed CAFC’s permission to use the name?).
Sainsbury tried to buy Leeds in 2004/5 but apparently it fell through because he couldn’t produce the cash (it seems that although he is wealthy – grandson of the supermarket founder etc – he wanted to use borrowed money rather than his own).
Sainsbury registered Charlton Athletic 2010 ltd on 16/07/10 and then 11 days later on 27/07/10 it was announced that Richard Murray had “agreed terms with his fellow plc board directors and bondholders for the purchase of shares in Charlton Athletic Football Company Ltd and Charlton Athletic Holdings Ltd which will see him assume sole control of the football club” – about the same time that Murray came into extra money from the settlement over the rights of ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire’ with Disney – which increased the value of his shares in Avesco & allowed him to borrow against their value.
It seems unlikely that Murray would have bought the others out if a deal with Sainsbury was imminent – in that case surely they would all have sold their shares (probably at a knockdown) to Sainsbury? It seems far more likely that Sainsbury’s proposal fell though (like Leeds) or was unacceptable – or the new cash persuaded Murray to go on his own - but he had to buy out the others to do this?
However, as someone else also pointed out Murray clearly sees this as a short term move pending some expected or hoped for further investment(?) as he said "I shall be appointing a new interim board of directors, and we will now go forward and actively seek new investment”.
Just my reading of the situation – what do people think?
I reckon you are about 90% right. Good post.
kep it coming chaps........
while you're most likely right, the other possibility is that by doing this it then clears the way for a takeover. as a number of directors had loaned money to the club. It would be much better for everyone if they sold their shares at a knock-down price in order to get the money that they had lent back. For insistence, say one of the directors lent the club £2m, his shares are worth £3m. Murray gets him to agree to sell his shares and settle the loan for a combined £4m. So in one respect the director is losing a £1m. However if this was stoping a takeover and risking the possibility of administration, then better to take a small hit then a major hit if this was to happen. So this way he at least gets most of his money back. Getting all the directors to agree to this kind of settlement clears up the majority of the club’s debt. This smooths the process of a takeover, because now they're are dealing just with Murray rather than having to enter into lengthy negations with all the directors which the club owes money to. I believe this was one of the reasons that Zeebel pulled out, because the club's debts were in the hands of the majority shareholders; meaning in order take over the club Zeebel would have had to pay £40m for a club thats worth £20m.
excellent post. However the settlement with Disney would not have increased the value of his shares in Avesco because it wasn't Avesco who owned the rights to WWTBAM it was Celador, a company that RM previously had a stake in which sold the rights to Millionaire a few years ago to Endemol. Avesco is RM's company. What the loan is for is anyone's guess but the loan would be to Avesco as opposed to RM himself I would have thought.