[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]He has made 28 League appearances for us and been shite in every single one. Thats what matters.
Funny how, despite him being "shite" we've done better (and certainly no worse) with him on the pitch than off it this season. These are all his appearances this season:
vs Swindon came on in the 83rd minute as one of nine players when score 1-2. Final score 2-2.
vs Brentford started game. Came off in 78th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 1-1.
vs Wycombe came on in 66th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 2-1.
vs Harlepool came on in 76th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 2-1.
vs Orient came on in 67th minute when score was 0-1. Final score 0-1.
So, during the period he wasn't on the pitch, we were destined to get 3 points from those games. At the end of those games we actually got 8 points. Those five appearances amout to 80 minutes and during that time we scored three and didn't concede.
He may not have contributed directly to those goals when he came on but the fact is he offers something different to what "lump of lard" centre backs are used to facing i.e. forwards who like to play with their backs to goals rather than on the shoulder of the last defender.
And if he was so "shite" in those games it really doesn't say much for those players who got us into those position in the first place.
But, as I've said already, he's now playing for a Manager who believes in him and his 12 in 13 (plus 3 subs) is a testament to that. Perhaps that's why we won't let him play against us but we really shouldn't be worried about that because he's "shite" after all.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]And absoultely no cherry picking there because those are the facts. FACT.
That is good analysis AA. My main point about cherry picking was that when people quote 11 in 14 for the Gills, and 3 in 7 (or whatever it was) for Bristol Rovers, they don't mention 0 in 23 for Charlton (EDIT: 2 in 27 including cup games, nearly broke my own rule there!).
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]He has made 28 League appearances for us and been shite in every single one. Thats what matters.
He may not have contributed directly to those goals when he came on but the fact is he offers something different to what "lump of lard" centre backs are used to facing i.e. forwards who like to play with their backs to goals rather than on the shoulder of the last defender.
He contributed at Brentford as he won us the penalty, no other Charlton striker would've had the positioning or pace to go through and knock it past the keeper.
''Not seen any full Gillingham games, but I bet Dickson gets more space and time on the ball than he ever did here''
Well you can guarantee he will if he's allowed to play against us at the Valley on March 24!!! ... ;o)
I think we all know that come the end of the season he's going to be way above Mooney and Akpo in the list of the division's leading goal scorers.
And that's why what went wrong with him at CAFC is still an issue, even though the posters who have said he is now ''irrelevant'' are also correct.
When he told the Medway press following his latest loan that playing for the Gills felt like ''coming home'', I believe him. He feels loved and wanted down there in a way he never did at the Valley.
Whether that was his fault, Parky's fault or the fault of his bonkers manager who has probably told him that he should be lining up tonight for Inter against Chelsea, I don't know. But he was never, ever going to do it for us under the current regime.
Shame because I think everyone really wanted him to succeed, if only so we could have had one of those fairytale stories like the non-league lad who currently can't stop banging them in for Swindon.
Well you can guarantee he will if he's allowed to play against us at the Valley on March 24!!! ... ;o)
..........
As he's our player/loaned to Gillingham he's ineligible, though I wonder how often the question will get asked in the run-up to the match...
He has an incentive to do well at Gillingham, he's gone straight into their starting XI, the manager wanted him, it seems he wanted the move, the fans are behind him and you can bet that they'll play, or try to play, to his strengths. At Charlton he knew he wasn't wanted and would only ever be on the bench with the odd ten/fifteen minutes here and there.
Good luck to him, there's something there, but he needs the right manager and team around him to bring it out.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]And if he's as crap as our management believe, wouldn't we want to sanction him to play against us ?
How do you know they don't rate him well enough, but it's his attitude or problems off the pitch that mean he doesn't get in the team? I'm sure there's more to it than the management team just don't rate him.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]And if he's as crap as our management believe, wouldn't we want to sanction him to play against us ?
How do you know they don't rate him well enough, but it's his attitude or problems off the pitch that mean he doesn't get in the team? I'm sure there's more to it than the management team just don't rate him.
An attitude Stimson clearly never had a problem with when he was on loan before or now.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]it's his attitude or problems off the pitch that mean he doesn't get in the team? I'm sure there's more to it than the management team just don't rate him.
Well I know nothing about Dicko's off-pitch ''crimes'', Sco, other than that his agent is apparently an alpha plus idiot. But if Parky ever thought Dicko could do a job on the pitch but didn't pick him for off-the-pitch reasons, I'm very unhappy with that.
You pick the best XI at your disposal to win you the game , as Chelsea have shown with the rat Terry, who's playing against Inter tonight. Especially in our position, in which another season in div three could be the end of us and our chairman has said promotion is ''imperative''.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]And if he's as crap as our management believe, wouldn't we want to sanction him to play against us ?
How do you know they don't rate him well enough, but it's his attitude or problems off the pitch that mean he doesn't get in the team? I'm sure there's more to it than the management team just don't rate him.
An attitude Stimson clearly never had a problem with when he was on loan before or now.
That doesn't mean it can be ruled out completely does it? Managers have different opinions and reasons for choosing or leaving out players.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]it's his attitude or problems off the pitch that mean he doesn't get in the team? I'm sure there's more to it than the management team just don't rate him.
Well I know nothing about Dicko's off-pitch ''crimes'', Sco, other than that his agent is apparently an alpha plus idiot. But if Parky ever thought Dicko could do a job on the pitch but didn't pick him for off-the-pitch reasons, I'm very unhappy with that.
We don't know what he might have done or not done though do we? I'm talking about off the pitch reasons within the club, not John Terry situations. If a player is constantly late for training you don't ignore it just because he's a decent player.
None of us know why he hasn't had more starts, I just think Parky has more reasons other than just not rating him. They might be perfectly good reasons, they might be unfair on Dickson, we don't know.
He will score goals for them, but I still don't think he would have for us. As an example Lisbie scored regularly in the Championship for Colchester, but at a bigger club in Ipswich he couldn't do it.
Could have sworn that was him driving along Floyd Road this morning heading towards the Valley but it was a brief glance as he was passing. deffo looked like him.
also spotted half a charlton youth team on platform 4 at london bridge.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Could have sworn that was him driving along Floyd Road this morning heading towards the Valley but it was a brief glance as he was passing. deffo looked like him.
also stalked half the charlton youth team on platform 4 at london bridge.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]We don't know what he might have done or not done though do we?[/quote]
No, except that Parky has always insisted he's a ''good lad'' and told us several times that he had ''no problem with him''.
Which we have to take at face value. I still believe that the principle reason he hardly played for us was because Parky doesn't rate him on the pitch. Frankly, I've never seen anything from Dickson to disagree. But for some reason, he and the Gills just seem to click in a way he never did for us, rather like Ambrose and Palace...
[cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]He has made 28 League appearances for us and been shite in every single one. Thats what matters.
Funny how, despite him being "shite" we've done better (and certainly no worse) with him on the pitch than off it this season. These are all his appearances this season:
vs Swindon came on in the 83rd minute as one of nine players when score 1-2. Final score 2-2.
vs Brentford started game. Came off in 78th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 1-1.
vs Wycombe came on in 66th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 2-1.
vs Harlepool came on in 76th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 2-1.
vs Orient came on in 67th minute when score was 0-1. Final score 0-1.
So, during the period he wasn't on the pitch, we were destined to get 3 points from those games. At the end of those games we actually got 8 points. Those five appearances amout to 80 minutes and during that time we scored three and didn't concede.
He may not have contributed directly to those goals when he came on but the fact is he offers something different to what "lump of lard" centre backs are used to facing i.e. forwards who like to play with their backs to goals rather than on the shoulder of the last defender.
And if he was so "shite" in those games it really doesn't say much for those players who got us into those position in the first place.
But, as I've said already, he's now playing for a Manager who believes in him and his 12 in 13 (plus 3 subs) is a testament to that. Perhaps that's why we won't let him play against us but we really shouldn't be worried about that because he's "shite" after all.
AA, I was at all of those games and Dickson performance against both Wycombe & Hartlepool (Wycombe in particular) was nothing short of disgraceful. At Wycombe he looked exactly like the Non-league player he was. Orient at home he was extremely inaffective and his knowledge of the offside rule is zero. Swindon, we was down to nine men so its hard to judge in 7 minutes.
I understand that you rate him...i think he's useless and the attitude and vibe he gives off when playing is shocking.
To be fair Gary, against Orient he came on with us chasing the game and hitting long balls up to him. That's not his strength and we all know it. He plays on the shoulder of the last defender and wants through balls to go after. Us hitting 50-60 yard long balls up to the edge of the area to be headed away by Mkandawire does not mean Dickson is a bad player.
What i will give you is that at Wycombe he came on and hardly touched the ball, he was so ineffective i actually thought he was injured.
Thats fair enough and perhaps due to his previous performances i was looking for him to have a torrid against Orient.
Wycombe was the final straw for me. He looked clueless, at one point he was through on goal but decided to run into the corner and still lost possesion, then didnt chase back, there was still 5 mins to go!.....He looked shattered after about 3 minutes of coming on.
Some good points from both sides of the 'Dicko argument' on this thread.
My final contribution is that he scored 1 in 2 for Bristol Rovers in this league and will probably do the same for Gillingham in which case for me CAFC and Parkinson were the problem not Chris Dickson the player.
The reason why Stimson likes him so much is imho because Stimson is a non league manager who loves non league players.
As for the Dickson debates, he is never going to be a success here but imho he is more likely to score goals regularly than any of our strikers. In his 7 league starts he played very well against Plymouth and Brentford whilst I think he did fairly well away at Burnley and Bristol City.
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]Some good points from both sides of the 'Dicko argument' on this thread.
My final contribution is that he scored 1 in 2 for Bristol Rovers in this league and will probably do the same for Gillingham in which case for me CAFC and Parkinson were the problem not Chris Dickson the player.
But he'd probably not do that for us. It's like saying we should have kept Ambrose as he'd have scored loads for us in League One (ignoring that we couldn't afford to/he could get a Championship club). It was never going to work out for him here.
Can someone remind me which home game it was fairly recently that every single time the ball was played forward to him he got flagged offside? It's all very well being clinical in the 6 yard box, but if we never get that far because you don't know how to beat the offside trap then there's not much hope for you.
I think we're all agreed that he probably wouldn't do it for us now and certainly not under the current regime. The point I was trying to make about him coming on as sub is not necessarily that he proved himself to be a footballer or even effective but, as someone who is prepared to run at the opposition and use his pace to get in behind their back four which is something that our existing strikers do not do enough of.
For all their faults McLeod and Dicko do have pace, a commodity that we have in limited supply through the middle. It wouldn't be quite so bad if our central midfielders made "third man runs" to get beyond the front "one" or "two" but I struggle to recall too many occasions (Semedo did once) when our midfielders have scored from doing so.
Finally, if you want an example of a perceived threat then I would refer you to the England game when they beat Argentina 3-2. Crouch came on in the 80th minute when we were 2-1 down and the Argies were so concerned about his height that they allowed Michael Owen to score two goals in the last ten minutes - both with his head!
[quote][cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]Can someone remind me which home game it was fairly recently that every single time the ball was played forward to him he got flagged offside? It's all very well being clinical in the 6 yard box, but if we never get that far because you don't know how to beat the offside trap then there's not much hope for you.[/quote]
That was Orient and I will admit he looked as if he'd never heard of the rule before. Having said that if you look at some of his goals have come by beating the offside trap.
[cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]Can someone remind me which home game it was fairly recently that every single time the ball was played forward to him he got flagged offside? It's all very well being clinical in the 6 yard box, but if we never get that far because you don't know how to beat the offside trap then there's not much hope for you.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Strikers are renowned for needing confidence and a good run of starts to get them on track, McLeod was given this Dicko wasn't
When he goes to a club where he is clearly popular and wanted by management and fans, who show belief in him, he does well.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Strikers are renowned for needing confidence and a good run of starts to get them on track, McLeod was given this Dicko wasn't
When he goes to a club where he is clearly popular and wanted by management and fans, who show belief in him, he does well.
nuff said if you ask me
That's true and while he did well at Gillingham, Bristol Rovers management and fans weren't impressed by him.
There's surely more to it than Gillingham are right to rate him, Charlton and Bristol Rovers (and Crewe) are wrong and don't realise what they're missing out on.
Anyway we aren't going to agree on everything. It'll be interesting to see how his career turns out. I'll be vey surprised if he regularly plays above League One level. Not that Charlton will defintely get back to the Championship either.
I do think being the star striker and having a team kind of built around him suits him, rather than a squad player at a bigger club. Just like it suited McLeod at MK Dons and even Parker here.
He will score a few goals so some fans will love him, it's the rest of his game that frustrates some fans, managers and coaches. That was a problem here and at Bristol Rovers and here, but not so much at Gillingham.
I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Greaves playing for Tottingham.
In that Spuds team, 9 outfield players crafted and grafted and Jimmy Greaves just turned up in the right place at the right time, and put the ball in the net.
He didn't really do anything else, except score goals.
That was his job and why he was in the team.
I read his autobiog about 20 years ago, an interesting read if you can still got hold of it.
One point I remember Greavsie saying, something like, "......sometimes I would hardly touch the ball in 90 minutes, but I had to be mentally sharp and ready just in case the ball fell to me in the 89th minute - it could be that vital wiinning goal.
"But I used to come off at the final whistle with a splitting headache, through concentrating so hard".
20 years ago Clive Allen did the same role for Spurs ..... and scored 49 goals that season.
Gary Lineker at Everton was another example.
These days, managers expect all 10 outfield players to be grafters and each to be more of an all round player.
So nowadays there appears to be no role for the out-and-out goal poacher.
That's true the higher up the leagues you go. Lower you go where players are less all round, I think some managers will accept a poacher that offers little else.
Comments
Funny how, despite him being "shite" we've done better (and certainly no worse) with him on the pitch than off it this season. These are all his appearances this season:
vs Swindon came on in the 83rd minute as one of nine players when score 1-2. Final score 2-2.
vs Brentford started game. Came off in 78th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 1-1.
vs Wycombe came on in 66th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 2-1.
vs Harlepool came on in 76th minute when score was 1-1. Final score 2-1.
vs Orient came on in 67th minute when score was 0-1. Final score 0-1.
So, during the period he wasn't on the pitch, we were destined to get 3 points from those games. At the end of those games we actually got 8 points. Those five appearances amout to 80 minutes and during that time we scored three and didn't concede.
He may not have contributed directly to those goals when he came on but the fact is he offers something different to what "lump of lard" centre backs are used to facing i.e. forwards who like to play with their backs to goals rather than on the shoulder of the last defender.
And if he was so "shite" in those games it really doesn't say much for those players who got us into those position in the first place.
But, as I've said already, he's now playing for a Manager who believes in him and his 12 in 13 (plus 3 subs) is a testament to that. Perhaps that's why we won't let him play against us but we really shouldn't be worried about that because he's "shite" after all.
That is good analysis AA. My main point about cherry picking was that when people quote 11 in 14 for the Gills, and 3 in 7 (or whatever it was) for Bristol Rovers, they don't mention 0 in 23 for Charlton (EDIT: 2 in 27 including cup games, nearly broke my own rule there!).
He contributed at Brentford as he won us the penalty, no other Charlton striker would've had the positioning or pace to go through and knock it past the keeper.
''Not seen any full Gillingham games, but I bet Dickson gets more space and time on the ball than he ever did here''
Well you can guarantee he will if he's allowed to play against us at the Valley on March 24!!! ... ;o)
I think we all know that come the end of the season he's going to be way above Mooney and Akpo in the list of the division's leading goal scorers.
And that's why what went wrong with him at CAFC is still an issue, even though the posters who have said he is now ''irrelevant'' are also correct.
When he told the Medway press following his latest loan that playing for the Gills felt like ''coming home'', I believe him. He feels loved and wanted down there in a way he never did at the Valley.
Whether that was his fault, Parky's fault or the fault of his bonkers manager who has probably told him that he should be lining up tonight for Inter against Chelsea, I don't know. But he was never, ever going to do it for us under the current regime.
Shame because I think everyone really wanted him to succeed, if only so we could have had one of those fairytale stories like the non-league lad who currently can't stop banging them in for Swindon.
..........
As he's our player/loaned to Gillingham he's ineligible, though I wonder how often the question will get asked in the run-up to the match...
He has an incentive to do well at Gillingham, he's gone straight into their starting XI, the manager wanted him, it seems he wanted the move, the fans are behind him and you can bet that they'll play, or try to play, to his strengths. At Charlton he knew he wasn't wanted and would only ever be on the bench with the odd ten/fifteen minutes here and there.
Good luck to him, there's something there, but he needs the right manager and team around him to bring it out.
Is that true, BFR - I could easily be wrong but I thought it was down to the loaning club to make that call?
And if he's as crap as our management believe, wouldn't we want to sanction him to play against us ?
An attitude Stimson clearly never had a problem with when he was on loan before or now.
Well I know nothing about Dicko's off-pitch ''crimes'', Sco, other than that his agent is apparently an alpha plus idiot. But if Parky ever thought Dicko could do a job on the pitch but didn't pick him for off-the-pitch reasons, I'm very unhappy with that.
You pick the best XI at your disposal to win you the game , as Chelsea have shown with the rat Terry, who's playing against Inter tonight. Especially in our position, in which another season in div three could be the end of us and our chairman has said promotion is ''imperative''.
We don't know what he might have done or not done though do we? I'm talking about off the pitch reasons within the club, not John Terry situations. If a player is constantly late for training you don't ignore it just because he's a decent player.
None of us know why he hasn't had more starts, I just think Parky has more reasons other than just not rating him. They might be perfectly good reasons, they might be unfair on Dickson, we don't know.
He will score goals for them, but I still don't think he would have for us. As an example Lisbie scored regularly in the Championship for Colchester, but at a bigger club in Ipswich he couldn't do it.
also spotted half a charlton youth team on platform 4 at london bridge.
No, except that Parky has always insisted he's a ''good lad'' and told us several times that he had ''no problem with him''.
Which we have to take at face value. I still believe that the principle reason he hardly played for us was because Parky doesn't rate him on the pitch. Frankly, I've never seen anything from Dickson to disagree. But for some reason, he and the Gills just seem to click in a way he never did for us, rather like Ambrose and Palace...
AA, I was at all of those games and Dickson performance against both Wycombe & Hartlepool (Wycombe in particular) was nothing short of disgraceful. At Wycombe he looked exactly like the Non-league player he was. Orient at home he was extremely inaffective and his knowledge of the offside rule is zero. Swindon, we was down to nine men so its hard to judge in 7 minutes.
I understand that you rate him...i think he's useless and the attitude and vibe he gives off when playing is shocking.
What i will give you is that at Wycombe he came on and hardly touched the ball, he was so ineffective i actually thought he was injured.
Wycombe was the final straw for me. He looked clueless, at one point he was through on goal but decided to run into the corner and still lost possesion, then didnt chase back, there was still 5 mins to go!.....He looked shattered after about 3 minutes of coming on.
My final contribution is that he scored 1 in 2 for Bristol Rovers in this league and will probably do the same for Gillingham in which case for me CAFC and Parkinson were the problem not Chris Dickson the player.
As for the Dickson debates, he is never going to be a success here but imho he is more likely to score goals regularly than any of our strikers. In his 7 league starts he played very well against Plymouth and Brentford whilst I think he did fairly well away at Burnley and Bristol City.
For all their faults McLeod and Dicko do have pace, a commodity that we have in limited supply through the middle. It wouldn't be quite so bad if our central midfielders made "third man runs" to get beyond the front "one" or "two" but I struggle to recall too many occasions (Semedo did once) when our midfielders have scored from doing so.
Finally, if you want an example of a perceived threat then I would refer you to the England game when they beat Argentina 3-2. Crouch came on in the 80th minute when we were 2-1 down and the Argies were so concerned about his height that they allowed Michael Owen to score two goals in the last ten minutes - both with his head!
When he goes to a club where he is clearly popular and wanted by management and fans, who show belief in him, he does well.
nuff said if you ask me
That was Orient and I will admit he looked as if he'd never heard of the rule before. Having said that if you look at some of his goals have come by beating the offside trap.
Orient.
Agreed.
There's surely more to it than Gillingham are right to rate him, Charlton and Bristol Rovers (and Crewe) are wrong and don't realise what they're missing out on.
Anyway we aren't going to agree on everything. It'll be interesting to see how his career turns out. I'll be vey surprised if he regularly plays above League One level. Not that Charlton will defintely get back to the Championship either.
I do think being the star striker and having a team kind of built around him suits him, rather than a squad player at a bigger club. Just like it suited McLeod at MK Dons and even Parker here.
He will score a few goals so some fans will love him, it's the rest of his game that frustrates some fans, managers and coaches. That was a problem here and at Bristol Rovers and here, but not so much at Gillingham.
In that Spuds team, 9 outfield players crafted and grafted and Jimmy Greaves just turned up in the right place at the right time, and put the ball in the net.
He didn't really do anything else, except score goals.
That was his job and why he was in the team.
I read his autobiog about 20 years ago, an interesting read if you can still got hold of it.
One point I remember Greavsie saying, something like, "......sometimes I would hardly touch the ball in 90 minutes, but I had to be mentally sharp and ready just in case the ball fell to me in the 89th minute - it could be that vital wiinning goal.
"But I used to come off at the final whistle with a splitting headache, through concentrating so hard".
20 years ago Clive Allen did the same role for Spurs ..... and scored 49 goals that season.
Gary Lineker at Everton was another example.
These days, managers expect all 10 outfield players to be grafters and each to be more of an all round player.
So nowadays there appears to be no role for the out-and-out goal poacher.