[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]What a dreadful thread to read. Nothing we can do about at the month except work ourselves up. Best turn off the pc and take yourselves out for the day.
I would but I'm unwell.
Mind you this thread is making me feel a lot worse!
Cant remember a time where there has seemed to be so much distance between the current board and the fans.
Its ok being comitted to great fan/ club relations when the good times are rolling but now is the time for communication when we need reassurance on the future. If the current board (much gratitude to what they have done over the years) walk away even after making severe losses we are still the ones who will be left with the aftermath when playing squad, management and directors are all long gone.
The lack of communication this summer (other than when it was time to part with cash for season tickets) has been pretty shoddy and its disappointing how we have been treated like this after all the good relationships built up over the past decade.
Well if things are as bad financially as it now appears then it goes a long way in explaining the long silence from the club. For years they have been spinning us that all was manageable and hunky dorey. They could hardly say that it was all a load of b*llox and we are a hop skip and a jump from disapearing down the toilet. My faith is well and truly shaken I can tell you.
Hope you feel better len. Charltonitus isn't good!
Agree mog! There are people that deserve to know things way before we do! We're essentially so far down the chain of importance these days I reckon my neighbours dog will know something before we do! The directors prob don't know full story from all sides and the club is their play thing we just pay to watch their play thing! (....go down the pan it seems!)
i think we should all just wait now and listen to the official word on the situation, who knows what is going to happen but whatever it is will happen and happen soon no good worrying about probable outcomes or what ifs or who has done or said what
positives for me are as follows
we have signed 2 players we are going on tour albeit only to Ireland but all are not cost neutral, if we were in dire dire dire straights the loss of hudson would have been replaced by mambo,
we could always stay at home and play teams here with no cost of travel or accomdation
the accounts are published annually and from what i have read on here about them there is no hidden millions of debt (i am not saying there isnt but i am not clever enough to find it)
i dont hold much hope out for a favourable outcome i am not rose tinted in my views but i cant help but feel that this could be the last spin on something before it reaches an amicable solution for both parties.
but i am seriously getting pissed off with the length of time it is all taking i am seriously getting pissed offf with the little snippets of press releases that say fuk all and name no one.
i cant believe that the people at the helm would have been so fraudulant that the current money men have failed to disclose an amount of debt that equals 5 mill or 10 mill i also think that when you say 5 to 10 mil (well what is it because the difference between the 2 is a great deal of wedge)
If it is debt that will get bigger well how fooking obvious is that you wouldnt need to go through this bollox to discover that it is common sense if you dont pay off your debt it grows it grows to whatever level of intrest it is at and surely that intrest rate is disclosed when you talk about the amount of money needed to cover the debt
i may be making it sound fecking easy i may be making it out to be feck all but i need it explained to me in fact and in a way the lay person can understand
therefore until i here something concrete from those in charge of our club now or those interested in taking over (local business men or fecking www. Arabrussianaffricanjapenseschinese we invest in your footieteam.com) i am not going to believe anything else.
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]It may well be that things are too delicate to respond to on the record at the moment.
Tuesday's SLP may well be a better bet.
As I've said before IS, we're just fans who pay to go through the turnstyles.
Why should Murray tell US anything...............?
He doesn't have to, but I'm like many other in here having just paid for my season ticket for this season after last years debacle it would be nice
Would be nice to here something first thing on the OS tomorrow morning. Good or bad. We should be concentrating on pre season by now, season starts in 4 weeks!
hold on FFs hold on before there are people jumping off the QEII Bridge. This is a BARGINING PLOY nothing else. The Takeover mob are either puting in pain with their offer or have seen the Saints issue and thought it was time to re-think , re bid.
ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.
So they wave the threat "take our bid or you will go into administration" who the f**k says so ? The Board can/could say "piss off we will sell JJ/Gray/Bailey/Racon for £5million, pay off some debt (to themselves) and a small amount to the team". The Board would be better off to do this than go into admin.
Admin : The shareholders will be lucky to get one or two pence per share. Not that much of a hit for me but huge lost for the 3 main shareholders. where does the money come from ? the sale of the assets to a buyer------------assets thats the players/ground/ equipment etc. WE LOOSE The Valley to a "buyer". It makes f**k all sence for the Board to go into admin. It makes f**k sence for the Takeover mob to see admin as a way of geting the club cheap as pre admin we will sell the players.Therefore they would get a team 10 points down the shit shute and with their best players gone.
IMO (its all about opinions at mo) the Takeover mob have made an offer, either the Board are sticking in for more or the Takeover mob have came back with a time-limited offer less than the first(using a press contact and the spector of administartion) I do not believe there is a "hiden" debt, if there is then our Auditors will have to be asked why they couldnt find it going back over the last few years.
There seems to be a fact that has emerged in the last 24 hours which is being over looked. We now know that the IS a takeover/part buy out going on. That was speculation a few days back.
If we hear nothing in the next few days i think the sign will be Gray/JJ/and Bailey going within 10 days.
I believe we are still making large losses, could this be extra debt comes from
Does anyone know the Math on southampton? 12m for the club, plus how much debt?, and minus 10 points? I imagine this sets some kind of valuation which the prospective buyers could be pointing to agreeing the price for the deal, but then again are some of the current investors being realistic?
In reality we have been bankrupt for some time, and the article rightly points to the slow death, and inability of the board to arrest the financial decline.
Perhaps imminent bankruptcy is why some of our names haven't gone yet - the big clubs smell blood.
I raised the point that the asset stripping of the training ground could be in light of potential administration, but Henners? pointed out there is a 2 year rule what does that mean tho?
another thing, am I right in thinking it would only take one director to insist on a relatively small loan to be repaid to plunge us in to administration
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]With respect - you've paid about 400 quid which entitles you to not a lot these days!
its all proportionate though isnt it if your earning 20k a year £400 is a fair sum. Besides without our collective financial input there would be no club.
If the incoming debts are pilling up and up and the increase of the debt is higher then why did the club make 10 people redundant out of the 24 that they did say might be made redundant ? With respect to all that in fact did loose their jobs.
I know that if we stayed in champ the deficit from lack of parachute payments was 13m and as we were relegated it is 16m hence why emphasis is to save that money somehow which is bad planning imo. We knew as far back as nov that we weren't going up and some provisions should have been put in place then not in may when the situation was worse and an extra 3m to be found. To budget on a possible income was a mistake imo as we knew the parachute payments were ending when we were first relegated to the champ. I think its terrible to base the business around that income which was short lived anyway. I can only guess that the zabeel deal was going through with the possibility of going up maybe with some spend in jan to help this means were in a double bad situation now if we were chugging away in 3rd gear then we're revving up a steep hill in 1st at the month and bypassed 2nd gear completely!
My name is Old Sally
I watch games at the Valley
I will live and die by the sword
In my colours I greet the away fans that I meet
But they stare and they say ‘who are you?’
My name is Old Sally
I watch games at the Valley
I will live and die by the sword.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]I know that if we stayed in champ the deficit from lack of parachute payments was 13m and as we were relegated it is 16m hence why emphasis is to save that money somehow which is bad planning imo. We knew as far back as nov that we weren't going up and some provisions should have been put in place then not in may when the situation was worse and an extra 3m to be found. To budget on a possible income was a mistake imo as we knew the parachute payments were ending when we were first relegated to the champ. I think its terrible to base the business around that income which was short lived anyway. I can only guess that the zabeel deal was going through with the possibility of going up maybe with some spend in jan to help this means were in a double bad situation now if we were chugging away in 3rd gear then we're revving up a steep hill in 1st at the month and bypassed 2nd gear completely!
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]My name is Old Sally
I watch games at the Valley
I will live and die by the sword
In my colours I greet the away fans that I meet
But they stare and they say ‘who are you?’
My name is Old Sally
I watch games at the Valley
I will live and die by the sword.
No doubt that this thread has pushed some of us over the edge ;0)
[quote][cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]If the incoming debts are pilling up and up and the increase of the debt is higher then why did the club make 10 people redundant out of the 24 that they did say might be made redundant ? With respect to all that in fact did loose their jobs.[/quote]
Some of the people put at risk were in a pool and the process was to select a number of them, never all of them. For example, you could not make redundant all the people who sell tickets, but you can't put just some of them at risk.
In other cases, people were able to put forward proposals for savings equal to the cost of their employment, e.g. bringing a previously bought-in service in-house as part of their workload or they were able to highlight additional costs that would have been incurred by making them redundant.
The point was to save money, so where the redundancies would not have saved any they were not carried through.
Firstly thanks Mick for letting us know the whole story as you wrote it. Hard for us all to read and for you to write about I'm sure. I "knew" we were in pretty bad shape financially a while back but this sounds pretty terrible. If we survive this next season as in the club is still here and we have not been relegated I think I would take that at the moment.
Just had a phonecall from my Chelsea cousin:
He asked me "what has happened to the friendly,honest & open club, who have a supporter on the board to make sure things are okay & "above board" " ?
After a chat where I could offer no answers he's said "Basically you're f**ked. Funny how the supporter on the board stopped acouple of years back......."
Co-incidence ??
I have been trying to read again the posting RM put on the club site refuting previous press reports of pending Admin any body know when it was posted.
[cite]Posted By: Miserableold-ish git[/cite]Just had a phonecall from my Chelsea cousin:
He asked me "what has happened to the friendly,honest & open club, who have a supporter on the board to make sure things are okay & "above board" " ?
After a chat where I could offer no answers he's said "Basically you're f**ked. Funny how the supporter on the board stopped acouple of years back......."
Co-incidence ??
[cite]Posted By: ellisaddick[/cite]I have been trying to read again the posting RM put on the club site refuting previous press reports of pending Admin any body know when it was posted.
I don't think that was on the OS. Search administration murray on the news section doesn't bring up anything like that.
Was it on the SLP site? I can't find it on there, though there is this. Murray said we could have gone into administration, it's from last August. SLP link doesn't work any more though.
"a source said last night"
Why do all stories include that. Never this morning, yesterday lunch time, or last Friday.
I don’t doubt there is some substance to this story but I do think there is a danger of making 2+2 equal 5.
I think Sausage made a good point in reminding us it is the current directors play thing. We are and always were paying customers who happen to support their play thing.
Comments
Tuesday's SLP may well be a better bet.
I would but I'm unwell.
Mind you this thread is making me feel a lot worse!
As I've said before IS, we're just fans who pay to go through the turnstyles.
Why should Murray tell US anything...............?
Its ok being comitted to great fan/ club relations when the good times are rolling but now is the time for communication when we need reassurance on the future. If the current board (much gratitude to what they have done over the years) walk away even after making severe losses we are still the ones who will be left with the aftermath when playing squad, management and directors are all long gone.
The lack of communication this summer (other than when it was time to part with cash for season tickets) has been pretty shoddy and its disappointing how we have been treated like this after all the good relationships built up over the past decade.
Agree mog! There are people that deserve to know things way before we do! We're essentially so far down the chain of importance these days I reckon my neighbours dog will know something before we do! The directors prob don't know full story from all sides and the club is their play thing we just pay to watch their play thing! (....go down the pan it seems!)
positives for me are as follows
we have signed 2 players we are going on tour albeit only to Ireland but all are not cost neutral, if we were in dire dire dire straights the loss of hudson would have been replaced by mambo,
we could always stay at home and play teams here with no cost of travel or accomdation
the accounts are published annually and from what i have read on here about them there is no hidden millions of debt (i am not saying there isnt but i am not clever enough to find it)
i dont hold much hope out for a favourable outcome i am not rose tinted in my views but i cant help but feel that this could be the last spin on something before it reaches an amicable solution for both parties.
but i am seriously getting pissed off with the length of time it is all taking i am seriously getting pissed offf with the little snippets of press releases that say fuk all and name no one.
i cant believe that the people at the helm would have been so fraudulant that the current money men have failed to disclose an amount of debt that equals 5 mill or 10 mill i also think that when you say 5 to 10 mil (well what is it because the difference between the 2 is a great deal of wedge)
If it is debt that will get bigger well how fooking obvious is that you wouldnt need to go through this bollox to discover that it is common sense if you dont pay off your debt it grows it grows to whatever level of intrest it is at and surely that intrest rate is disclosed when you talk about the amount of money needed to cover the debt
i may be making it sound fecking easy i may be making it out to be feck all but i need it explained to me in fact and in a way the lay person can understand
therefore until i here something concrete from those in charge of our club now or those interested in taking over (local business men or fecking www. Arabrussianaffricanjapenseschinese we invest in your footieteam.com) i am not going to believe anything else.
fuk the lot of it
He doesn't have to, but I'm like many other in here having just paid for my season ticket for this season after last years debacle it would be nice
Would be nice to here something first thing on the OS tomorrow morning. Good or bad. We should be concentrating on pre season by now, season starts in 4 weeks!
ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.
So they wave the threat "take our bid or you will go into administration" who the f**k says so ? The Board can/could say "piss off we will sell JJ/Gray/Bailey/Racon for £5million, pay off some debt (to themselves) and a small amount to the team". The Board would be better off to do this than go into admin.
Admin : The shareholders will be lucky to get one or two pence per share. Not that much of a hit for me but huge lost for the 3 main shareholders. where does the money come from ? the sale of the assets to a buyer------------assets thats the players/ground/ equipment etc. WE LOOSE The Valley to a "buyer". It makes f**k all sence for the Board to go into admin. It makes f**k sence for the Takeover mob to see admin as a way of geting the club cheap as pre admin we will sell the players.Therefore they would get a team 10 points down the shit shute and with their best players gone.
IMO (its all about opinions at mo) the Takeover mob have made an offer, either the Board are sticking in for more or the Takeover mob have came back with a time-limited offer less than the first(using a press contact and the spector of administartion) I do not believe there is a "hiden" debt, if there is then our Auditors will have to be asked why they couldnt find it going back over the last few years.
There seems to be a fact that has emerged in the last 24 hours which is being over looked. We now know that the IS a takeover/part buy out going on. That was speculation a few days back.
If we hear nothing in the next few days i think the sign will be Gray/JJ/and Bailey going within 10 days.
I believe we are still making large losses, could this be extra debt comes from
Does anyone know the Math on southampton? 12m for the club, plus how much debt?, and minus 10 points? I imagine this sets some kind of valuation which the prospective buyers could be pointing to agreeing the price for the deal, but then again are some of the current investors being realistic?
In reality we have been bankrupt for some time, and the article rightly points to the slow death, and inability of the board to arrest the financial decline.
Perhaps imminent bankruptcy is why some of our names haven't gone yet - the big clubs smell blood.
I raised the point that the asset stripping of the training ground could be in light of potential administration, but Henners? pointed out there is a 2 year rule what does that mean tho?
another thing, am I right in thinking it would only take one director to insist on a relatively small loan to be repaid to plunge us in to administration
its all proportionate though isnt it if your earning 20k a year £400 is a fair sum. Besides without our collective financial input there would be no club.
Id turn my back on football.
I watch games at the Valley
I will live and die by the sword
In my colours I greet the away fans that I meet
But they stare and they say ‘who are you?’
My name is Old Sally
I watch games at the Valley
I will live and die by the sword.
No doubt that this thread has pushed some of us over the edge ;0)
Some of the people put at risk were in a pool and the process was to select a number of them, never all of them. For example, you could not make redundant all the people who sell tickets, but you can't put just some of them at risk.
In other cases, people were able to put forward proposals for savings equal to the cost of their employment, e.g. bringing a previously bought-in service in-house as part of their workload or they were able to highlight additional costs that would have been incurred by making them redundant.
The point was to save money, so where the redundancies would not have saved any they were not carried through.
I "knew" we were in pretty bad shape financially a while back but this sounds pretty terrible.
If we survive this next season as in the club is still here and we have not been relegated I think I would take that at the moment.
He asked me "what has happened to the friendly,honest & open club, who have a supporter on the board to make sure things are okay & "above board" " ?
After a chat where I could offer no answers he's said "Basically you're f**ked. Funny how the supporter on the board stopped acouple of years back......."
Co-incidence ??
Thought so at the time !
Was it on the SLP site? I can't find it on there, though there is this. Murray said we could have gone into administration, it's from last August. SLP link doesn't work any more though.
Why do all stories include that. Never this morning, yesterday lunch time, or last Friday.
I don’t doubt there is some substance to this story but I do think there is a danger of making 2+2 equal 5.
I think Sausage made a good point in reminding us it is the current directors play thing. We are and always were paying customers who happen to support their play thing.