[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]What you have to remember is this story is not a crack piece of investigative journalism. It is a quite deliberate plant by ''a source close to the bid''.
Just ask yourself why they would do that and it all becomes a lot clearer - and less scary.
Quite. Unfortunately, it then leads to bollocks like this from shitty little me-too sites like Vital Football, gurgling on about "financial meltdown", whatever that is when it's at home. If a Charlton fan did that, they deserve shouting at for shit-stirring like that.
Whatever, this needs to be sorted out, and quickly.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]What you have to remember is this story is not a crack piece of investigative journalism. It is a quite deliberate plant by ''a source close to the bid''.
Just ask yourself why they would do that and it all becomes a lot clearer - and less scary.
Quite. Unfortunately, it then leads tobollocks like thisfrom shitty little me-too sites like Vital Football, gurgling on about "financial meltdown", whatever that is when it's at home. If a Charlton fan did that, they deserve shouting at for shit-stirring like that.
Whatever, this needs to be sorted out, and quickly.
Steady on Inspector...that sounds suspiciously like a death threat to me.
So this bit means we'll fall into administration because the takeover isn't going to happen
"Charlton are poised to be the next club to fall into administration, with a takeover bid on the brink of collapse because of debts of up to £40m.
But I read this bit as meaning the buyers would rather we were in administration (maybe to re-pay a percentage of what is owed to creditors, and accept the -10 points.)
In strict business terms, a club with 10 fewer points, but millions of pounds less debt would be a far more attractive proposition.
it confuses me that the consequence of the collapse is administration, but the 'insider' then says a club in administration would be far more attractive.
i hope this is just a ploy to put pressure on the board at the end of negotiations.
[cite]Posted By: BBClaus[/cite]So this bit means we'll fall into administration because the takeover isn't going to happen
"Charlton are poised to be the next club to fall into administration, with a takeover bid on the brink of collapse because of debts of up to £40m.
But I read this bit as meaning the buyers would rather we were in administration (maybe to re-pay a percentage of what is owed to creditors, and accept the -10 points.)
In strict business terms, a club with 10 fewer points, but millions of pounds less debt would be a far more attractive proposition.
it confuses me that the consequence of the collapse is administration, but the 'insider' then says a club in administration would be far more attractive.
i hope this is just a ploy to put pressure on the board at the end of negotiations.
Could be just that.
Could be a load of bollocks
Could be a re-hash of an old story
Could be half true with a bit of a dramatic "on the brink" to spice up a non-story with no quotes about a "little" club
Could be bang on the money.
Whatever any deal to takeover/re-finance/take the club into Admin needs to happen very quickly IMHO.
It was my story, and unfortunately it had to be cut down because of pressure of space in this morning's edition. The online version takes the edited text from the paper, so it appears cut down there, too.
I have no problem with anyone seeing the version as it was filed, though. It's pasted below.
Charlton Athletic’s financial worries have taken a further turn for the worst with the news that a group of businessmen poised to buy the club, have developed serious reservations.
Recent events at Southampton are understood to have made the group re-consider their offer. The Saints went into administration in April, confirming their relegation from the Championship and ensuring they began the forthcoming League One season with a ten point deficit to make up.
Despite this, their newly acquired debt-free status made them a sufficiently attractive prospect for Swiss businessman Markus Liebherr to purchase the club earlier this week. It is this model which is believed to have attracted the attention of Charlton’s potential new owners.
Charlton are in a precarious financial position, with debts of between £35m and £40m. Whilst the bulk of this money is owed to current directors, they appear to have no way of escaping the downward spiral caused by two relegations in three years. Last year, with the third highest wage bill in the Championship the club finished bottom of the division, 13 points from safety. With the end of parachute payments from the Premier League and League One income ahead, the debts are set to grow.
The potential new buyers fear that players will be sold to keep the club afloat, and given the scale of the debt, eventually Charlton’s only asset of worth will be The Valley, the ground they returned to 17 years ago after a fight from a board and a set of supporters unified in a common purpose. In the wake of last season and with the club riddled with uncertainty, that unity appears now to have all but evaporated.
A source close to the bid said last night “The club is currently going through a slow, painful death. In strict business terms, a club with ten fewer points, but millions of pounds less debt would be a far more attractive proposition.”
When the footballing authorities introduced the 10-point penalty for entering administration, it was thought that it would act as a deterrent. Given the levels of debt in the game at present however, as Southampton have shown and Charlton may yet learn, the deduction could increasingly be seen as a price worth paying.
Quite clear now. The prospective buyers are saying they would prefer to buy us with a 10 point penalty and in administration, as they would save themselves a load of money.
Have to say I can't disagree with their thinking. Why shell out £30M if you can get it for nowt ?
Any new owners would have to reach a deal with the administrators and would still be liable for 100% of any football debts.
£12.5m might still be a lot less than whatever price they had in mind or had agreed. We haven't seen an actual price mentioned, only that the current board was prepared to write off £30m of their investment (not necessarily debt as some might be shares)
What is more concerning is that the new owners are said to be worried that players might be sold. Surely that would be more likely if we go into Admin and less likely if they take over the club now as they would be the ones deciding to underwrite the budget to keep certain players.
And how happy are we with owners who are happy take a 10 point handicap.
All very strange. Let's hope the issue is resolved and the whole story comes out soon as the longer it goes on the more damage will be done.
A ten point deduction would make it even more difficult to hang on to, or attract decent players, thus making promotion as good as impossible.Another relegation could follow. I wonder if the potential new owners have factored this into their calculations.
My main worry is 'these local businessmen' - who are they and do they really have enough money to get us back into the premiership?.
If they want us to go into administation and then pick us up - it sounds to me they are more interested in making a quick buck rather than the long term good of the club.
The last thing we need is new owners who do not have the requisite finances to fulfil our hopes of getting back in the prem.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]Given Ketman's connections and everything else that is emerging, I am beginning to fear he may be speaking the truth.
Which raises the question, would it be better to bite the bullet now?
That I fear is very much the question. Are we prepared to take a 10pt hit that administration would bring if a buyer could be guaranteed? If we did would it be totally disasterous as far as next season is concerned or could we overcome it?
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]A ten point deduction would make it even more difficult to hang on to, or attract decent players, thus making promotion as good as impossible.Another relegation could follow. I wonder if the potential new owners have factored this into their calculations.
So the choices are stacking up: a)The Club go completely bust and are no more. A new Charlton is formed, starting off at Fishers old ground or something, and begin to try to climb back from the Ryman south or something. b)The Club owners sell/give to new owners, ten points intact. c)The Club goes into admin, sold more cheaply, but take a ten point hit. d)The present regime limps on, slash and burn until there is nothing left to sell/mortgage. Club survival touch and go. e)Man.City give us 50mil for Andy Gray.
I wonder what the most likely of those outcomes we will have....todays events suggest c?
The subtext, methinks, is that we will be going into administration or the future of the club itself will be touch and go. Needs must.
But, as has been said earlier, it does concern me that we are possibly being taken over by a consortium that will happily see us lose points and sell all of our saleable assets to meet debts so that they can save some cash purchasing the club.
It could be a crucial week for the club, but I also have a horrible feeling that nothing will happen and we will limp on towards further uncertaintly and, ultimately, potential oblivion. How can the club start the season with any optimism at all under these circumstances.
I have officially downgraded my expectations for next season:
1. If we still exist by this time next year I will be happy.
2. If we manage to avoid another relegation I will be ecstatic.
i know we have made our mistakes but until the gap in money between PL and the football league is reduced we certainly won't be the last club all of this happens to.
As one who has no knowledge of how the various companies are set up the thought occurs that ownership of The Valley could be jeopardised if we go into liquidation.
Unless it is safely tucked away in another company or Trust of course.
Sounds like either we go into administration and have a deal with the 'local businessmen' or Richard Murray sticks to his word, we avoid administration and things go from bad to worse.
Administration may be 'a price worth paying' in those circumstances but as others have noted before, it is not a victimless crime. Many people who have been loyal to the club, and who presumably have a lot of history not just with the club but with Richard Murray personally, will suffer. Loyalty and trust - cornerstones of the 'Charlton Way'. Clearly there is less room for those values now, or for the Charlton Way generally. I had naively thought they would be easier to preserve outside the premiership. Sad.
Mick's full story is completely different to what appeared in The Mail and just shows what a sensationalist load of cr*p that newspaper is in my opinion.
The first part of the quote from the source is fairly obvious and has been to everyone for some time:-
“The club is currently going through a slow, painful death".
The second part:-
"In strict business terms, a club with ten fewer points, but millions of pounds less debt would be a far more attractive proposition.”
Is pure brinkmanship IMO.
It is happening all over the business world at the moment, agree a price for the businesses up front, everyone happy then 2 days before you are about to complete you 'chip' the price by proclaiming something is slightly different to what was originally agreed. The current Board are a bit naive if they did not expect this to happen I would suggest. With little option my feeling is that they will cave in early next week and this will all be wrapped up by the end of the week.
Comments
Quite. Unfortunately, it then leads to bollocks like this from shitty little me-too sites like Vital Football, gurgling on about "financial meltdown", whatever that is when it's at home. If a Charlton fan did that, they deserve shouting at for shit-stirring like that.
Whatever, this needs to be sorted out, and quickly.
No wonder the country is going to the dogs.
In my day it was shooting but now in the PC namby pamby world we live in the worst people can expect is a good shouting.
I blame someone.
Steady on Inspector...that sounds suspiciously like a death threat to me.
who ?
But I read this bit as meaning the buyers would rather we were in administration (maybe to re-pay a percentage of what is owed to creditors, and accept the -10 points.)
it confuses me that the consequence of the collapse is administration, but the 'insider' then says a club in administration would be far more attractive.
i hope this is just a ploy to put pressure on the board at the end of negotiations.
Could be just that.
Could be a load of bollocks
Could be a re-hash of an old story
Could be half true with a bit of a dramatic "on the brink" to spice up a non-story with no quotes about a "little" club
Could be bang on the money.
Whatever any deal to takeover/re-finance/take the club into Admin needs to happen very quickly IMHO.
I have no problem with anyone seeing the version as it was filed, though. It's pasted below.
Charlton Athletic’s financial worries have taken a further turn for the worst with the news that a group of businessmen poised to buy the club, have developed serious reservations.
Recent events at Southampton are understood to have made the group re-consider their offer. The Saints went into administration in April, confirming their relegation from the Championship and ensuring they began the forthcoming League One season with a ten point deficit to make up.
Despite this, their newly acquired debt-free status made them a sufficiently attractive prospect for Swiss businessman Markus Liebherr to purchase the club earlier this week. It is this model which is believed to have attracted the attention of Charlton’s potential new owners.
Charlton are in a precarious financial position, with debts of between £35m and £40m. Whilst the bulk of this money is owed to current directors, they appear to have no way of escaping the downward spiral caused by two relegations in three years. Last year, with the third highest wage bill in the Championship the club finished bottom of the division, 13 points from safety. With the end of parachute payments from the Premier League and League One income ahead, the debts are set to grow.
The potential new buyers fear that players will be sold to keep the club afloat, and given the scale of the debt, eventually Charlton’s only asset of worth will be The Valley, the ground they returned to 17 years ago after a fight from a board and a set of supporters unified in a common purpose. In the wake of last season and with the club riddled with uncertainty, that unity appears now to have all but evaporated.
A source close to the bid said last night “The club is currently going through a slow, painful death. In strict business terms, a club with ten fewer points, but millions of pounds less debt would be a far more attractive proposition.”
When the footballing authorities introduced the 10-point penalty for entering administration, it was thought that it would act as a deterrent. Given the levels of debt in the game at present however, as Southampton have shown and Charlton may yet learn, the deduction could increasingly be seen as a price worth paying.
Mail seems to have sensationalised your article to a degree. Reservations is a better word that suggests something can be worked out.
Bloody Southampton and their meddling Swissmen
As ever, I blame the sub-editors.
Have to say I can't disagree with their thinking. Why shell out £30M if you can get it for nowt ?
Or their motivation for issuing a quote in those terms at a time like this?
Totally agree, sensationalised then reduced to the most emotive words imaginable. Papers used a similar trick in Jack the Rippers time.
Southampton cost £12.5m reportedly
Any new owners would have to reach a deal with the administrators and would still be liable for 100% of any football debts.
£12.5m might still be a lot less than whatever price they had in mind or had agreed. We haven't seen an actual price mentioned, only that the current board was prepared to write off £30m of their investment (not necessarily debt as some might be shares)
What is more concerning is that the new owners are said to be worried that players might be sold. Surely that would be more likely if we go into Admin and less likely if they take over the club now as they would be the ones deciding to underwrite the budget to keep certain players.
And how happy are we with owners who are happy take a 10 point handicap.
All very strange. Let's hope the issue is resolved and the whole story comes out soon as the longer it goes on the more damage will be done.
I think the key to understanding the financial position is the sentence "the debts are set to grow".
Which raises the question, would it be better to bite the bullet now?
Just my opinion Nigel, with everything that has happened last few years, the escalation of debt seems the only sad logical conculsion :-(
If they want us to go into administation and then pick us up - it sounds to me they are more interested in making a quick buck rather than the long term good of the club.
The last thing we need is new owners who do not have the requisite finances to fulfil our hopes of getting back in the prem.
That I fear is very much the question. Are we prepared to take a 10pt hit that administration would bring if a buyer could be guaranteed? If we did would it be totally disasterous as far as next season is concerned or could we overcome it?
Very good point.
a)The Club go completely bust and are no more. A new Charlton is formed, starting off at Fishers old ground or something, and begin to try to climb back from the Ryman south or something.
b)The Club owners sell/give to new owners, ten points intact.
c)The Club goes into admin, sold more cheaply, but take a ten point hit.
d)The present regime limps on, slash and burn until there is nothing left to sell/mortgage. Club survival touch and go.
e)Man.City give us 50mil for Andy Gray.
I wonder what the most likely of those outcomes we will have....todays events suggest c?
The subtext, methinks, is that we will be going into administration or the future of the club itself will be touch and go. Needs must.
But, as has been said earlier, it does concern me that we are possibly being taken over by a consortium that will happily see us lose points and sell all of our saleable assets to meet debts so that they can save some cash purchasing the club.
It could be a crucial week for the club, but I also have a horrible feeling that nothing will happen and we will limp on towards further uncertaintly and, ultimately, potential oblivion. How can the club start the season with any optimism at all under these circumstances.
I have officially downgraded my expectations for next season:
1. If we still exist by this time next year I will be happy.
2. If we manage to avoid another relegation I will be ecstatic.
Scary times.
Unless it is safely tucked away in another company or Trust of course.
Anybody have any definitive knowledge?
Sounds like either we go into administration and have a deal with the 'local businessmen' or Richard Murray sticks to his word, we avoid administration and things go from bad to worse.
Administration may be 'a price worth paying' in those circumstances but as others have noted before, it is not a victimless crime. Many people who have been loyal to the club, and who presumably have a lot of history not just with the club but with Richard Murray personally, will suffer. Loyalty and trust - cornerstones of the 'Charlton Way'. Clearly there is less room for those values now, or for the Charlton Way generally. I had naively thought they would be easier to preserve outside the premiership. Sad.
The first part of the quote from the source is fairly obvious and has been to everyone for some time:-
“The club is currently going through a slow, painful death".
The second part:-
"In strict business terms, a club with ten fewer points, but millions of pounds less debt would be a far more attractive proposition.”
Is pure brinkmanship IMO.
It is happening all over the business world at the moment, agree a price for the businesses up front, everyone happy then 2 days before you are about to complete you 'chip' the price by proclaiming something is slightly different to what was originally agreed. The current Board are a bit naive if they did not expect this to happen I would suggest. With little option my feeling is that they will cave in early next week and this will all be wrapped up by the end of the week.
Superb Henners, you should try writing for a fanzine... ;-)