What baffles me a little is why the Police have not resorted to water canons
Because they haven't got any. The only water cannons in the UK are in Northern Ireland, and given what's been going off there lately, they're unlikely to want to loan them out.
No issues on train home tonight, there were rumours doing the rounds of trains being attacked and riots around London Bridge - but all look untrue at the moment
What baffles me a little is why the Police have not resorted to water canons
Because they haven't got any. The only water cannons in the UK are in Northern Ireland, and given what's been going off there lately, they're unlikely to want to loan them out.
To be honest, I have little knowledge of police strategy but the way it seems is that for the last 3 days, it is not working and it is now time for more desperate measures.
I watched the film Harry Brown a couple of months ago and have to admit I was shocked at what I saw. Perhaps I am too naive, was brought up very differently and just don't know places like the setting there, but it painted a horrendous picture of our society. Over the last couple of nights, it seems to be coming to life for all of us and I keep remembering a certain couple of lines from the film... Frampton: It's not Northern Ireland Harry. Harry Brown: No it's not. Those people were fighting for something; for a cause. To them out there, this is just entertainment.
Listening to some of these idiots on the news now, laughing, giggling, justifying themselves (NOT in my or any of your eyes), that's just what all this is for them - entertainment. They talk about respect, but they have none of it!
Just been through Woolwich, Plumstead High St & Abbey Wood and all quiet. Hopefully it stays that way and you all stay safe.
Rothko, have to disagree, historically it's been the exact opposite. Water cannons have a good track record of damping down (excuse the pun) the adrenaline of looters and rioters, where they have been misused is against protestors in confined spaces. They do exactly what you want which is to disperse troublemakers from a particular area - not contain them.
The problem with plastic bullets is the assumption that you are shooting at people to maim and thereby dispersing the rest of the rioters by fear. But in a city where it is unknown quite how many illegal firearms are at the disposal of these people then the police face a conundrum that if they start shooting at rioters with plastic bullets, will they be then shot at by live ammunition?
It was loaded shine, its been confirmed. Hasnt been confirmed that it had fired any rounds, but an illegal, loaded fire-arm was found on Mark Duggan. Learn your facts
For all of you talking about water cannons, I saw on TV earlier that there are no water cannons in England anyway. The only ones owned by the Goverment are currently in Northern Ireland.
It appears to be the general consensus that water cannons only work in certain circumstances and are a very unwieldly thing to use....not that it matters as we don't have any; they are in NI as they are more than likely going to be needed there.
Baton rounds, tear gas and tazers should do the job just fine. Or some napalm.
EGA, just what I was told by TSG officers while on the Student Demos last year, they believe water cannons won't work
I understand the point about back-alleys etc and re-filling the tanks takes a while too, but with rioting containment isn't a policy the OB follow. I agree to a point they are not wholely suitable and I can't see them being used anyway if trouble does flare up again.
As mentioned above I'm surprised tear gas hasn't been debated publicly.
just walked through the broadway and its pretty quiet. quite a few police walking around (mainly PCSO) and a few groups of kids, but they mainly seem to be there to have a look or against the rioters. i think bexleyheath will pass without incident tonight.
Tell you what Shine - pop down Croydon and have a mosey round. Fifty yards away from my house there are four burnt out cars, and at least 15 businesses (provately run businesses, I might add) completely annihilated. There is a block of six shops completely and utterly torched - with 20 flats above them (at least they were yesterday) totally gone. That's at least 50 peoples' livelihoods (and/or lives themselves) ruined.
Now ask yourself whether this is the right time to start talking about whether some c***'s illegal firearm was loaded or not when the old bill capped him.
It was loaded shine, its been confirmed. Hasnt been confirmed that it had fired any rounds, but an illegal, loaded fire-arm was found on Mark Duggan. Learn your facts
Sorry... thats what ive been trying to do. Can I have a link to your facts please ? as these may help me become as informed as yourself
I was up Eltham High Street about 1/2 hour ago, most of the shops are closed, the forecourt of eltham car sales is empty. The pub across the road from the tesco / esso petrol sation is packed with "football fans" types. A few coppers by the fire station. Welling high street much the same, the turnpike not as packed. All the cars in the forecourts on upper wickham lane have been moved. Got passed by an unmarked police car using blues & twos heading towards lower wickham lane.
Tell you what Shine - pop down Croydon and have a mosey round. Fifty yards away from my house there are four burnt out cars, and at least 15 businesses (provately run businesses, I might add) completely annihilated. There is a block of six shops completely and utterly torched - with 20 flats above them (at least they were yesterday) totally gone. That's at least 50 peoples' livelihoods (and/or lives themselves) ruined.
Now ask yourself whether this is the right time to start talking about whether some c***'s illegal firearm was loaded or not when the old bill capped him.
Well thats what the thread started about when I joined the discussion on page 1... people so sure he shot the police and me getting slated for being open minded
Comments
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Harry Brown: No it's not. Those people were fighting for something; for a cause. To them out there, this is just entertainment.
The problem with plastic bullets is the assumption that you are shooting at people to maim and thereby dispersing the rest of the rioters by fear. But in a city where it is unknown quite how many illegal firearms are at the disposal of these people then the police face a conundrum that if they start shooting at rioters with plastic bullets, will they be then shot at by live ammunition?
Would you seriously have an issue whether the gun was loaded or not???? Unreal
I understand the point about back-alleys etc and re-filling the tanks takes a while too, but with rioting containment isn't a policy the OB follow. I agree to a point they are not wholely suitable and I can't see them being used anyway if trouble does flare up again.
As mentioned above I'm surprised tear gas hasn't been debated publicly.
Never thought I'd say that sentence!
just walked through the broadway and its pretty quiet. quite a few police walking around (mainly PCSO) and a few groups of kids, but they mainly seem to be there to have a look or against the rioters. i think bexleyheath will pass without incident tonight.
Now ask yourself whether this is the right time to start talking about whether some c***'s illegal firearm was loaded or not when the old bill capped him.