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London Riots

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  • aliwibble
    aliwibble Posts: 26,827
    What baffles me a little is why the Police have not resorted to water canons
    Because they haven't got any. The only water cannons in the UK are in Northern Ireland, and given what's been going off there lately, they're unlikely to want to loan them out.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,842
    The Met have trailed one, they just take ages to fill, for 2 minutes of water.

    Rubber bullet and tear gas are more useful
  • PeakieRocket
    PeakieRocket Posts: 2,424
    No issues on train home tonight, there were rumours doing the rounds of trains being attacked and riots around London Bridge - but all look untrue at the moment
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,423
    The Met have trailed one, they just take ages to fill, for 2 minutes of water.


    Rubber bullet and tear gas are more useful
    machine guns and snipers would be even more effective
  • DanDavis
    DanDavis Posts: 1,131
    Looks like a nice day in Eltham! (No sign of a 160 bus though....some things never change!)

    http://twitpic.com/63ipfj

  • cafcdan18
    cafcdan18 Posts: 3,664
    What baffles me a little is why the Police have not resorted to water canons
    Because they haven't got any. The only water cannons in the UK are in Northern Ireland, and given what's been going off there lately, they're unlikely to want to loan them out.
    To be honest, I have little knowledge of police strategy but the way it seems is that for the last 3 days, it is not working and it is now time for more desperate measures.
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,115
    I watched the film Harry Brown a couple of months ago and have to admit I was shocked at what I saw.  Perhaps I am too naive, was brought up very differently and just don't know places like the setting there, but it painted a horrendous picture of our society.  Over the last couple of nights, it seems to be coming to life for all of us and I keep remembering a certain couple of lines from the film... Frampton: It's not Northern Ireland Harry. 
    Harry Brown: No it's not. Those people were fighting for something; for a cause. To them out there, this is just entertainment. 

    Listening to some of these idiots on the news now, laughing, giggling, justifying themselves (NOT in my or any of your eyes), that's just what all this is for them - entertainment.  They talk about respect, but they have none of it!  

    Just been through Woolwich, Plumstead High St & Abbey Wood and all quiet. Hopefully it stays that way and you all stay safe. 

     
  • EGAddick
    EGAddick Posts: 532
    Rothko, have to disagree, historically it's been the exact opposite.  Water cannons have a good track record of damping down (excuse the pun) the adrenaline of looters and rioters, where they have been misused is against protestors in confined spaces.  They do exactly what you want which is to disperse troublemakers from a particular area - not contain them.

    The problem with plastic bullets is the assumption that you are shooting at people to maim and thereby dispersing the rest of the rioters by fear.  But in a city where it is unknown quite how many illegal firearms are at the disposal of these people then the police face a conundrum that if they start shooting at rioters with plastic bullets, will they be then shot at by live ammunition?
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,959
    Scumbag with a loaded gun got shot by rozzers.....what is there to have a problem with?

    I wouldn't mind a few trigger happy OB out on the streets tonight - might deter a few scumbags and get the welfare bill reduced in one fell swoop.
    yer presume it was loaded, after all everyone presumed he shot the police man
  • NathanPrior
    NathanPrior Posts: 3,577
    Looks like a nice day in Eltham! (No sign of a 160 bus though....some things never change!)

    http://twitpic.com/63ipfj

    I got on the one with the dodgy brakes earlier, so they are running :-)

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  • Addickforlife
    Addickforlife Posts: 2,101
    It was loaded shine, its been confirmed. Hasnt been confirmed that it had fired any rounds, but an illegal, loaded fire-arm was found on Mark Duggan. Learn your facts
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,115
    Looks like a nice day in Eltham! (No sign of a 160 bus though....some things never change!)

    http://twitpic.com/63ipfj

    I got on the one with the dodgy brakes earlier, so they are running :-)
    Sounds like they may not be stopping though!! ;-)
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,842
    EGA, just what I was told by TSG officers while on the Student Demos last year, they believe water cannons won't work
  • mart77
    mart77 Posts: 5,659
    Scumbag with a loaded gun got shot by rozzers.....what is there to have a problem with?

    I wouldn't mind a few trigger happy OB out on the streets tonight - might deter a few scumbags and get the welfare bill reduced in one fell swoop.
    yer presume it was loaded, after all everyone presumed he shot the police man

    Would you seriously have an issue whether the gun was loaded or not???? Unreal
  • JohnBoyUK
    JohnBoyUK Posts: 9,079
    For all of you talking about water cannons, I saw on TV earlier that there are no water cannons in England anyway.  The only ones owned by the Goverment are currently in Northern Ireland.
  • nth_london_addick
    nth_london_addick Posts: 35,919
    Just been text by pal that it is going off in eltham
  • bigstemarra
    bigstemarra Posts: 5,098
    It appears to be the general consensus that water cannons only work in certain circumstances and are a very unwieldly thing to use....not that it matters as we don't have any; they are in NI as they are more than likely going to be needed there.

    Baton rounds, tear gas and tazers should do the job just fine.  Or some napalm.
  • roseandcrown
    roseandcrown Posts: 7,591
    Manchester confirmed.
  • bigstemarra
    bigstemarra Posts: 5,098
    God, I hope not NLA.....
  • EGAddick
    EGAddick Posts: 532
    edited August 2011
    EGA, just what I was told by TSG officers while on the Student Demos last year, they believe water cannons won't work

    I understand the point about back-alleys etc and re-filling the tanks takes a while too, but with rioting containment isn't a policy the OB follow.  I agree to a point they are not wholely suitable and I can't see them being used anyway if trouble does flare up again.

    As mentioned above I'm surprised tear gas hasn't been debated publicly.

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  • DanDavis
    DanDavis Posts: 1,131
    Notting Hill Carnival in 18 days....
  • mart77
    mart77 Posts: 5,659
    Totally agree with Rothko that rubber bullets and tear gas are whats needed in this instance.

    Never thought I'd say that sentence!
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 38,107
    edited August 2011
    for those interested in bexleyheath;

    just walked through the broadway and its pretty quiet. quite a few police walking around (mainly PCSO) and a few groups of kids, but they mainly seem to be there to have a look or against the rioters. i think bexleyheath will pass without incident tonight.
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,475
    Tell you what Shine - pop down Croydon and have a mosey round. Fifty yards away from my house there are four burnt out cars, and at least 15 businesses (provately run businesses, I might add) completely annihilated. There is a block of six shops completely and utterly torched - with 20 flats above them (at least they were yesterday) totally gone. That's at least 50 peoples' livelihoods (and/or lives themselves) ruined.

    Now ask yourself whether this is the right time to start talking about whether some c***'s illegal firearm was loaded or not when the old bill capped him.
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,959
    It was loaded shine, its been confirmed. Hasnt been confirmed that it had fired any rounds, but an illegal, loaded fire-arm was found on Mark Duggan. Learn your facts
    Sorry... thats what ive been trying to do. Can I have a link to your facts please ? as these may help me become as informed as yourself
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,840
    Notting Hill Carnival in 18 days....
    More chance of us signing Messi than that going ahead i reckon
  • Charltonparklane
    Charltonparklane Posts: 5,786
    Even if it was a replica or a fkin cap gun it ain't for Paintballing in the woods is it.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,380
    BIG RUMOURS OF CAPITAL LETTERS BEING USED
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,922
    I was up Eltham High Street about 1/2 hour ago, most of the shops are closed, the forecourt of eltham car sales is empty. The pub across the road from the tesco / esso petrol sation is packed with "football fans" types. A few coppers by the fire station. Welling high street much the same, the turnpike not as packed. All the cars in the forecourts on upper wickham lane have been moved. Got passed by an unmarked police car using blues & twos heading towards lower wickham lane.
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,959
    Tell you what Shine - pop down Croydon and have a mosey round. Fifty yards away from my house there are four burnt out cars, and at least 15 businesses (provately run businesses, I might add) completely annihilated. There is a block of six shops completely and utterly torched - with 20 flats above them (at least they were yesterday) totally gone. That's at least 50 peoples' livelihoods (and/or lives themselves) ruined.

    Now ask yourself whether this is the right time to start talking about whether some c***'s illegal firearm was loaded or not when the old bill capped him.
    Well thats what the thread started about when I joined the discussion on page 1... people so sure he shot the police and me getting slated for being open minded
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