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MATCH THREAD (+POST p23): Charlton Athl v Cray Valley PM: FA Cup 🏆1st Rd: Sun 5 Nov 2023 | KO 17:30
Comments
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I can't agree on the 11 changes. The 11 he put out should have turned up and won with relative ease.ÂHartleypete said:I can handle the piss takes from my mates, I’ve had it for years.
What I hate is when we play a weak side and give that type of performance my Grandkids don’t really like all the hassle they get at school. Then they don’t feel inclined to want to go again.
Apples needs to think about the wider picture if he wants to get the crowds back.
Totally wrong move to make 11 changes, particularly for a live TV game.10 -
I genuinely believe chancers get contracts here and it's been that way for a number of years, I think our scouts are completely incompetent and typically speaking the signings who turn out well, were ready made. I've had that view for a number of years.Callumcafc said:
What else could it possibly mean? EFL standard players will still run rings around the average park team, which Cray Valley are closer to than the EFLBraziliance said:Callumcafc said:
Playing your best players doesn’t guarantee shit. Ask Portsmouth how their first choice XI got on yesterday.golfaddick said:
The problem isn't playing those players. The problem is playing them all together & expect them to play as a team.killerandflash said:Lets examine that starting 11
Walker - In Isted's absence, he's our No 2 keeper. If we can't play him against an 8th tier team, when can we play him?
Abankwah - Not a RB, but would Asiimwe or T Watson have been much different?
Ness - Wasn't everyone screaming for Hector to be dropped and Ness to replace him?
Thomas - Has been a regular at LB, so again perfectly reasonable to play him in his correct position
Edun - Our 1st choice LB coming back from injury. The perfect game for him to get some minutes
Anderson - Talented youngster, started the season well
McGrandles - Has done well under Appleton previously. A perfect opportunity to give him some minutes after his injury
Fraser - "The Scottish Pirlo". Was one of the 1st names on the teamsheet at the start of the season before his injury.
Kirk - The ideal opportunity to get some confidence into him
Tedic - Not been given a chance to play as a No 9, the perfect chance for him to get a goal or 2 and get some confidence
Chem - Many people have been questioning why he hasn't been in the matchday squads
It didn't work, but I can understand why Appleton picked that team. He would have learned a lot from yesterday, and not just about Kirk. Other players "failed the audition" while the lack of leadership in the first 11 is even worse in the reserve 11.Â
By all means give Tedic a run out. And McGrandles if needs be. But start with 4 or 5 of your regular starters. What is it we are persistently told about having a spine of a team.Â
Brian Clough is regarded as one of this counties best ever managers. He would never have made 11 changes to a side that had just won their first away game of the season.Â
Play your best players. Win the game. Then make changes.Â
Appleton picked a starting XI that had almost 1600 combined senior league appearances between them. It’s not as if he played a group of 18 year olds that barely had 50 senior appearances between them and they got outmuscled.ÂWhatever combination of full time pros he picked, it should have been comfortable against 8th tier opposition.
As much as you can post how many combined professional league games these players have, are we going to pretend that equates to being genuinely good at football? There's so much luck involved sometimes and we have seen some right guff play here.
It's similar to the manager merry go round, some players stay in the cycle of getting contracts as teams take a chance based on previous records, some of these players under contract here may genuinely be operating at a national league level and below.Â
League appareances are as relevant as xG stats to me personally, doesn't win anything when it's all said and done, just excuses and distractions from the actual results.
Have the players we played yesterday collectively fooled EFL calibre managers almost 1600 times? A few times with a few dodgy managers is possible. 1600 times is not.
I couldn't tell you the exact level they play at, as that would require them to play against lesser players on a consistent basis (which isn't going to happen as unfortunately they're stuck here) to prove otherwise. It would just have to happen gradually overtime, which I am confident it will. Some of these players will play below this level in the near future.
I also feel the some managers get away with it, you see it in other jobs and work areas of life, why would football be any different.Â
The managers who have been positive for Charlton over the last decade & a half and players have been far outweighed by the negative. Which suggests to me, yes, you can fool clubs and managers into contracts and steal a living.2 -
They're a bunch of professionals that train together, they should be able to step onto the pitch and play together. In all honesty it felt like 9 or so were out to play as individuals. Had we just played simple football we would have won that.Âgolfaddick said:
The problem isn't playing those players. The problem is playing them all together & expect them to play as a team.killerandflash said:Lets examine that starting 11
Walker - In Isted's absence, he's our No 2 keeper. If we can't play him against an 8th tier team, when can we play him?
Abankwah - Not a RB, but would Asiimwe or T Watson have been much different?
Ness - Wasn't everyone screaming for Hector to be dropped and Ness to replace him?
Thomas - Has been a regular at LB, so again perfectly reasonable to play him in his correct position
Edun - Our 1st choice LB coming back from injury. The perfect game for him to get some minutes
Anderson - Talented youngster, started the season well
McGrandles - Has done well under Appleton previously. A perfect opportunity to give him some minutes after his injury
Fraser - "The Scottish Pirlo". Was one of the 1st names on the teamsheet at the start of the season before his injury.
Kirk - The ideal opportunity to get some confidence into him
Tedic - Not been given a chance to play as a No 9, the perfect chance for him to get a goal or 2 and get some confidence
Chem - Many people have been questioning why he hasn't been in the matchday squads
It didn't work, but I can understand why Appleton picked that team. He would have learned a lot from yesterday, and not just about Kirk. Other players "failed the audition" while the lack of leadership in the first 11 is even worse in the reserve 11.Â
By all means give Tedic a run out. And McGrandles if needs be. But start with 4 or 5 of your regular starters. What is it we are persistently told about having a spine of a team.Â
Brian Clough is regarded as one of this counties best ever managers. He would never have made 11 changes to a side that had just won their first away game of the season.Â
Play your best players. Win the game. Then make changes.Â
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Did you enjoy your dinner despite that crap?golfaddick said:Can we swap managers. At least their one
talks sense.
Appleton....fuck off.1 -
I agree the first three and I hope he bollocked that starting 11 for last night. His big mistake last night was not switching to two up front when we scored the OG.ÂFortune 82nd Minute said:
I'm not saying I want Appleton gone but let's stop pretending he hasn't made huge mistakes recently.swordfish said:Some of the reaction on here for a cup game few were all that bothered about beforehand and that we didn't lose 🙄
I get that we were bad and wrong decisions made, I saw it on TV, but some seem to want the manager gone as a consequence. Seriously? Have we learnt nothing from chopping and changing managers every five minutes?
FWIW, I'm sure he'll stay and I don't think he'll make the same mistake again. It sounds as though one or two players might have had their last chance and might not feature again listening to his post match comments, which is a good thing if it means we focus on bringing in better replacements in January.
1) He started Aneke - which any of us could have told him wasn't a good idea - and left him on for 65 minutes. He's now out for 3 months.
2) He dropped Louie Watson after a series of really good performances for 2 games for a half fit Fraser
3) He played May up front by himself against Bolton's 3 big defenders
4)And now yesterday's cock-up.
If he carries on like this, the jury will be out on him very soon.
May and Tedic I could see working, but I don't get currently how Tedic cost ÂŁ2.5m0 -
One thing is for sure, January and Summer will need to see big clear outs of the remaining deadwood and a lot of money will need to be spent.Â2
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I did enjoy Appleton saying that the next time one of these players or their agent gets on at him about them not playing he can just point to this match. Though having said that, I do wonder which of these players have been banging on his door. Kirk probably can't even be arsed to complain anymore and some of them have been coming back from injury or very young so it can only be Chem, and he had one of the less terrible showings. At least if City get sniffy about Tedic not starting we can send them the iPlayer link
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I have waited overnight before posting. I am so disappointed, i thought that Terrell Thomas was the worst player i have ever seen in Charlton shirt. Then Kirk produces a performance i can only decribe as cowardly.Â
If Kirk has personal problems he should leave them in the dressing room.Â
I am going to Pompey on Saturday, a least they are out of the Cup.Â0 -
It's a good question. I think that starting 11 with only kids as options would be bottom 6 League One. I think some League 2 teams would be stronger, but reckon the top 6/bottom 6 are largely interchangeable at that level.Callumcafc said:Separate question that I’d love to hear answers to: take yesterday’s team selection, and the U21s only as options off the bench, what do you think that squad’s natural level would be?
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I genuinely fear we'll put out the same starting 11 again in the replay and they'll win, but not by a large margin.Â
If we put out a strong side we win comfortably.Â0 - Sponsored links:
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Aren't you meant to be someone who represents our club to the wider internet? This statement is embarrassingÂBraziliance said:I saw a fairly reasonable vlogger yesterday say that this result was a sackable offence.
As much as I am not sure about that, I have never been sold on Appleton. I don't see any tactics when we play, I think a lot of our good results are down to having a few, genuinely decent players and them having stellar performances, not tactical management. If he was a manager who had a playstyle it would have shown against a part-time team, he couldn't even manage that. According to a fair few people these professionals should have got a result so Appleton must be tactically inept? It's either that or they aren't professional standard.
I have him in the same boat as Garner, Adkins, Holden, Slade etc. Just a very ordinary bloke who's been fortunate enough to get himself in the footballing managerial scheme and clubs take chances on relative past success.Â
I think of every fan group who tried to sell him to us and it was largely Oxford and Lincoln fans. No disrespect to them but our ambition is simply higher than theirs. They were accustomed to watching league 2 footie (or recently) while he was there. Most of us would be ashamed to operate at that level, we are all fed up of league 1 as is.Â
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I just think it's inevitable we go nowhere again this season and he will just be another manager we will be reeling off in the future that didn't get it right.Â
Might sound harsh but take away the likes of Dobbo, May, CBT, Leaburn and some of the newer lads like Jones and of course our youth and then I truly couldn't give a b*llocks about most of these players. They take the p*ss and can't even be bothered to bust a gut.Â1 -
I hope you are right.ÂLeuth said:
There is absolutely zero chance Appleton puts this side out again everÂDazzler21 said:I genuinely fear we'll put out the same starting 11 again in the replay and they'll win, but not by a large margin.Â
If we put out a strong side we win comfortably.Â
One positive thing to call out is the through ball by Anderson. It was perfect.Â0 -
Is the replay likely to be during an international break? If it does, then there should be no reason to not field a strong side if no game on the saturday.2
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Think it needs a mixture because there are players who need match fitness.ÂDazzler21 said:I genuinely fear we'll put out the same starting 11 again in the replay and they'll win, but not by a large margin.Â
If we put out a strong side we win comfortably.Â
Personally I would drop Thomas from CB and put Abankwah in his natural role and use Assimwe or Watson at RB.Â
I wouldnt start May but would start Leaburn..that kinda thing.Â4 -
Good shout, however if we're already not playing due to intl call ups, that won't work.ÂValleyGary said:Is the replay likely to be during an international break? If it does, then there should be no reason to not field a strong side if no game on the saturday.0 -
Would be rock bottom by a mile. There are clubs in the current bottom 6 who have players that would start for our team and a fair few would have a shout at making our bench.Croydon said:
It's a good question. I think that starting 11 with only kids as options would be bottom 6 League One. I think some League 2 teams would be stronger, but reckon the top 6/bottom 6 are largely interchangeable at that level.Callumcafc said:Separate question that I’d love to hear answers to: take yesterday’s team selection, and the U21s only as options off the bench, what do you think that squad’s natural level would be?
I'd even go a step further and say that line up last night would probably struggle in league 2. They were completely disjointed and lacking in quality.
Anyway these are all hypotheticals and can only be proven correct by father time.Â
There are players that play for Fleetwood, Reading, Carlisle, Wigan and Northampton that I would swap for some of ours in a heartbeat.Â1 -
What baffles me is that we won the London Senior Cup last season with our U21s, beating non-league teams that are better than Cray Valley. Yet a team of senior pros, given a shop window to get moves out of the club, play as if they can't be arsed.Â
I really hope that Thomas Sandgaard was watching last night - it'd have shown him how much he hollowed out the club and the damage he caused.Â0 -
One of our internationals is Anderson who likely won’t play anyway. I presume the other two are Hector and AMB? Can still field a strong side without those.Dazzler21 said:
Good shout, however if we're already not playing due to intl call ups, that won't work.ÂValleyGary said:Is the replay likely to be during an international break? If it does, then there should be no reason to not field a strong side if no game on the saturday.0 - Sponsored links:
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Pure synergy mate, that u21 team would have all been familiar playing together.InspectorSands said:What baffles me is that we won the London Senior Cup last season with our U21s, beating non-league teams that are better than Cray Valley. Yet a team of senior pros, given a shop window to get moves out of the club, play as if they can't be arsed.Â
I really hope that Thomas Sandgaard was watching last night - it'd have shown him how much he hollowed out the club and the damage he caused.Â
Yesterday was a bunch of strangers having a kick about. Assuming our manager didn't actually practice for this particular game with that set of players and wrongly assumed they could get a result just because they have more experience. Naive.Â5 -
He wouldn't dareÂDazzler21 said:I genuinely fear we'll put out the same starting 11 again in the replay and they'll win, but not by a large margin.Â
If we put out a strong side we win comfortably.Â0 -
Maybe the reactions are coloured by if you were actually there or watching on the telly.2
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Theres some proper desperate excuse making going on in this thread.Â5
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Could be. Not as much time and effort put in by those not there like me for so little reward. Had I had to spend five hours driving there and back to be served that for my Sunday roast, I might have been using some of finest Anglo Saxon to vent my spleen too. Looks like it was a must win after all because we didn't lose but you wouldn't know it from the reaction.seth plum said:Maybe the reactions are coloured by if you were actually there or watching on the telly.0 -
Yes but I believe if we have had a league fixture called off for Intl call ups, it would be seen as disingenuous or at least disrespectful to the league to then play another fixture on the same date.ÂValleyGary said:
One of our internationals is Anderson who likely won’t play anyway. I presume the other two are Hector and AMB? Can still field a strong side without those.Dazzler21 said:
Good shout, however if we're already not playing due to intl call ups, that won't work.ÂValleyGary said:Is the replay likely to be during an international break? If it does, then there should be no reason to not field a strong side if no game on the saturday.
I could be wrong.Â0 -
We keep hearing about the 11 changes. But the 11 he picked are all paid professional footballers, they're not people he found kicking a ball in the local park. It speaks volumes about the quality, or lack of, we have under the first team. It was the club's chance to show a bigger audience we are half decent. Instead we are a laughing stock. Again.Dazzler21 said:
I can't agree on the 11 changes. The 11 he put out should have turned up and won with relative ease.ÂHartleypete said:I can handle the piss takes from my mates, I’ve had it for years.
What I hate is when we play a weak side and give that type of performance my Grandkids don’t really like all the hassle they get at school. Then they don’t feel inclined to want to go again.
Apples needs to think about the wider picture if he wants to get the crowds back.
Totally wrong move to make 11 changes, particularly for a live TV game.13 -
100%
I think maybe Edun gets a pass as it was his first game after quite a spell out injured, but the others? No excuses. Â3 -
Well there’s a surprise!seth plum said:I don’t buy the excuse/angle from Appleton that the humiliation enabled him to learn stuff about our players so all is good then. Absolute crap to say he has only been here a short time and he is learning about our players. What does he do all week FFS?
He was presented with a Televised cup game at home against a team more than 100 places below us in the pyramid, and it was his decisions that have led to our humiliation.
Whoever appointed Appleton is also responsible.
All you have done since he was appointed is set unrealistic and unachievable “goals” and flogged every game as a must win, but with absolutely no reference to the squad he inherited or the appalling instability at the club generally. Any plus points are largely ignored and negatives seem to be seized upon and illustrate your central hostility to Appleton.
It was a poor & foolish choice of squad, a frankly appalling result and ultimately hasn’t has the effect of resting the first team as we have another game now anyway. Of course the manager has made big mistakes in this situation. We also have a squad with clearly limited depth (and enthusiasm) and the defence from Hades and some players need to go.
I get & feel the anger about Appletons mistakes, the disconnect between his talk and action and the pathetic performances last night, however we have done much better in the league since his arrival and his stats are not by any measure poor.Sure if there is resentment we didn’t get another manager, the expectations are set ridiculously high and the squad and context are ignored, then it’s easy to jump up and down about this result and catastrophise.
If he learns from the mistakes he makes that’s good enough for me, if he continues to make them it’s a different situation, however the fact is he is still new, it’s is a very threadbare squad and the context to his appointment was one of chaos and instability and he, like all managers, should be given at least a modicum of time to improve things. At the present time it’s far far to early to be quite as hostile.
Lets see how he responds to this appalling shambles and how we do at the weekend…..5
