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Climate Emergency
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and China is becoming a leader in EVs, and the more fucking around governments in the west do, the bigger that Chinese advantage will become7
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and this comes days after some one in parliament has been arrested for being a chinese spy... Tinfoil hat time.Rothko said:and China is becoming a leader in EVs, and the more fucking around governments in the west do, the bigger that Chinese advantage will become0 -
There's zero mandate for this big change on climate policy. It's something that the electorate has repeatedly voted for. A really bad political misstep by sunak imo.5
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fair enough. just a suggestion.N01R4M said:
Freezers don't "destroy" heat energy; they just move it from one place (the food inside) to somewhere else (the air in your kitchen), plus some extra heat derived from the electricity used to run it. (Basic laws of thermodynamics.) Your freezer actually warms your kitchen up - and would even if you left the freezer door open! - because of the energy used to run it. On most free-standing fridge-freezers, you can see the black radiator panel on the back.Karim_myBagheri said:This I know is a incredibly stupid and naive thought...
we have freezers that can produce ice and keep Ice. Could we not stick a large freezer in the arctic ocean (paid for by the oil and gas companies) to make the ocean cooler thus creating or sustaining the ice and keeping the waters temperature down.
One problem (after the thousand others) how would you run the freezer? Need a lot of electricity...
So where do you propose the heat extracted from the ocean by your giant freezer should be vented? Into the atmosphere, where it will be trapped by the raised levels of carbon dioxide mankind has created? Plus, of course the extra energy from running it? Your "solution", even if you do solve the thousand other problems, would actually make the situation worse!0 -
Politically, it's closer to astute, because it will produce a small, temporary bounce in the polls and give campaigners a narrative on which to cling.kentaddick said:There's zero mandate for this big change on climate policy. It's something that the electorate has repeatedly voted for. A really bad political misstep by sunak imo.
Longer term, it's divisive (intentionally) and destructive. It's a wedge, in the traditional sense, ie between the right and left. However it's so harmful, short-term and hard to defend, it (literally) cannot be a sustainable position.
What's surprising to me is that it goes some way towards destroying what little chance Sunak had of leaving a legacy. He may be gone from politics for good in 2024, and more than a decade later, we'll be hoovering up foreign made petrol guzzlers.
Tit.4 -
The demand for EV's is set to outstrip supply if it isn't already (I'm talking globally) Can't just magic the lithium for the batteries out of thin air. How much does it cost to extract in terms of energy and human resources? How much energy is used up in making hydrogen powered vehicles?Rothko said:and China is becoming a leader in EVs, and the more fucking around governments in the west do, the bigger that Chinese advantage will become
Although EV's and hydrogen powered vehicles are more energy efficient, is making them? Have to manage it so that the energy savings actually exceed what's needed to produce them, otherwise the medicine might worsen the patients condition.
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my guess/hope is that the wheels of capitalism churn away and a much more efficient, kinder to the planet and easier to create battery would be created, especially as demand is outstretching supply.swordfish said:
The demand for EV's is set to outstrip supply if it isn't already (I'm talking globally) Can't just magic the lithium for the batteries out of thin air. How much does it cost to extract in terms of energy and human resources? How much energy is used up in making hydrogen powered vehicles?Rothko said:and China is becoming a leader in EVs, and the more fucking around governments in the west do, the bigger that Chinese advantage will become
Although EV's and hydrogen powered vehicles are more energy efficient, is making them? Have to manage it so that the energy savings actually exceed what's needed to produce them, otherwise the medicine might worsen the patients condition.1 -
It’s all quite depressing imo. The most frustrating thing is the still quite vocal voice of climate change deniers/skeptics that see net zero as some sort of conspiracy by the left/liberal elite and bucket it as yet another attack on personal freedom etc. This isn’t about politics, it’s about giving future generations a fighting chance to have a habitable planet.There are so many challenges in addressing it and it’s pretty much at the point where we’re screwed (if not already), but denial or shifting net zero into some sort of wokerati initiative is extremely damaging. Climate change doesn’t give a s*** if you vote Tory or Labour, and I just wish the topic wouldn’t get diluted into some sort of political diatribe that people can use as a weapon.
Things like JSO and Ulez don’t help, because it detracts from the core focus of saving the planet. JSO because the lengths they go to piss people off and lessen the chance they will engage, and Ulez because it was very badly executed and thought through and now it’s become a tool for the Tories to use, just like Sunak has done with his announcement today.I honestly feel that all I hear today on any topical issue is a hard line right or left approach and no one, on either side seems to want to come together and talk. We seem to be getting further and further entrenched in polarized views and all the rhetoric whipped up with it. If it’s not climate change, it’s Trans people. If it’s not Trans people, it’s lockdowns. On and on we go.I just wish the parties vying for power would stop using important issues simply to whip up hate between the two sides. It’s screwed us, because on climate change we need to come together and work as one, yet it’s just another topic to argue about8 -
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.22 -
There is a risk we could lose car manufacturers. Unbelievable this has been announced without consulting them!1
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Probably won't last long as a policy. Just long enough to be damaging to the UK position in automotive, renewables etc.0
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the old chuck a grenade back into the house just before you leave.Alwaysneil said:Probably won't last long as a policy. Just long enough to be damaging to the UK position in automotive, renewables etc.3 -
Yet figures clearly show the older generation as strong pro conservative voters, in which no effort has been made to combat the nations effect on climate change.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.0 -
A lot of the "right we've fucked it for you, but were all in this together right? Anyways I wont be about for much longer.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.1 -
anyway, another day where a politician who's only big electoral test was being beaten by Liz Truss is shown to be shit at politics.4
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It’s crazy that a marginal by-election win in Uxbridge has prompted a massive u-turn on Tory party policy.5
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I doubt the Tories will be in power after the next election.GetYerCoreyOut said:
A lot of the "right we've fucked it for you, but were all in this together right? Anyways I wont be about for much longer.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.
Let's see how Starmer attempts to deal with things.
I have never voted Tory btw.0 -
Putting the party in front of the environment.se9addick said:It’s crazy that a marginal by-election win in Uxbridge has prompted a massive u-turn on Tory party policy.
No surprise there.0 -
It’s a bit like Trump getting more extreme to appeal to his hardcore MAGA base, while forgetting that elections, especially in America, are won by getting the centre ground to swing over to you.kentaddick said:There's zero mandate for this big change on climate policy. It's something that the electorate has repeatedly voted for. A really bad political misstep by sunak imo.2 - Sponsored links:
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Untrue to say no effort, but not enough.GetYerCoreyOut said:
Yet figures clearly show the older generation as strong pro conservative voters, in which no effort has been made to combat the nations effect on climate change.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.
I actually wonder if all COP delegates should be under a certain age, only those for whom the devastating effects of climate change will seriously impair their lives.
Too many of the deniers, the nimbys, the self serving on the payroll of the oil companies, and the "don't care coz I won't be here brigade" are driving the effort to deal with climate change through token gestures.
We live in a world where oil companies have the audacity to proudly boast about their efforts to be environmentally friendly because they use eco friendly paint on their oil tankers. It beggars belief.
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Johnson has just voiced his vehement opposition to sunak's change. This is all sunak vs johnson, screw the rest of us.0
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Right now:Stu_of_Kunming said:
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Right, literally one of the worst cities in the country for pollution, vast amounts of China are significantly better than that. I can’t remember the last time I saw Kunming at +400
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I think that’s less true than you might think.cabbles said:It’s all quite depressing imo. The most frustrating
Things like JSO and Ulez don’t help, because it detracts from the core focus of saving the planet. JSO because the lengths they go to piss people off and lessen the chance they will engage, and Ulez because it was very badly executed and thought through and now it’s become a tool for the Tories to use, justPlurality of Londoners Support Expanding London’s Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ)July 13, 2023R&WS Research Team‘Londoners view the ULEZ in a similar way as the congestion charge. 58% say they support the existence of the ULEZ in London, while 24% say they are opposed.’‘Support for expanding the ULEZ is slightly higher than is the case with the Congestion Charge, with a larger plurality (47%) coming out in support of expanding the zone and 32% opposed to the idea.’
When you consider the well organised campaign against ULEZ those figure might seem surprising.I suspect as with the congestion charge the number supporting ULEZ will grow as people adapt to it.It also shows that politicians can make a small difference in the fight against climate change.The mayor’s team didn’t handle the PR campaign at all well, and the implementation was clumsy and hurried. I expect that’s because he didn’t want the launch to be close to the date of the election. Unless there a post ULEZ backlash I think his polling numbers will probably improve next year, if they can show ULEZ is improving the air and reducing harmful emissions.0 -
Yes, and I agree with Ulez, and am fortunate enough to own an unleaded car, and if you dig deeper into those that support it, it might be that they’re not going to be impacted financially by Ulez. I’m not for any of those idiots pulling down cameras, but so many people drive diesel cars and don’t have the money to buy unleaded/electric regardless of the scrappage scheme. You’ve also got to factor in a chip shortage that has impacted supply of new vehicles, the exorbitant cost of leasing, and all the other cost of living increases, and this £12.50 is yet another expense that many see is unwarranted.JamesSeed said:
I think that’s less true than you might think.cabbles said:It’s all quite depressing imo. The most frustrating
Things like JSO and Ulez don’t help, because it detracts from the core focus of saving the planet. JSO because the lengths they go to piss people off and lessen the chance they will engage, and Ulez because it was very badly executed and thought through and now it’s become a tool for the Tories to use, justPlurality of Londoners Support Expanding London’s Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ)July 13, 2023R&WS Research Team‘Londoners view the ULEZ in a similar way as the congestion charge. 58% say they support the existence of the ULEZ in London, while 24% say they are opposed.’‘Support for expanding the ULEZ is slightly higher than is the case with the Congestion Charge, with a larger plurality (47%) coming out in support of expanding the zone and 32% opposed to the idea.’
When you consider the well organised campaign against ULEZ those figure might seem surprising.I suspect as with the congestion charge the number supporting ULEZ will grow as people adapt to it.It also shows that politicians can make a small difference in the fight against climate change.The mayor’s team didn’t handle the PR campaign at all well, and the implementation was clumsy and hurried. I expect that’s because he didn’t want the launch to be close to the date of the election. Unless there a post ULEZ backlash I think his polling numbers will probably improve next year, if they can show ULEZ is improving the air and reducing harmful emissions.It’s not that the idea is bad, but the execution has been poor and to be honest, I think Khan is lucky London has the demographic it does and a poor level of opposing candidates from the Tories to go up against (this latest one is probably one of the worst yet) as he would’ve been toast long ago.
For me, it’s an own goal of sorts and let’s the lunatic climate deniers dig their heels in1 -
I don't think anyone should be ruled in or ruled out on the basis of their age. For me there are two key things that should decide anyone's role: 1. Their commitment to the cause 2. Their personal abilities to lead and represent us. I just listened to a very impressive man on the radio (at least, he was impressive in this one interview). That man is called Lord Deben. Now, I didn't know who Lord Deben was, so I googled him. He's an 83 year old Conservative who was a cabinet minister (indeed he was Party Chairman) when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister. For those old enough to remember, you may know him as John Selwyn Gummer. I personally was very surprised both at how passionately he spoke and how critical of the Government he was. He called Sunak's u-turn dangerous, he criticised Cameron's back tracking in the green agenda, and he outlined a number of very sensible measures including taxing private avaition and taking the tax off of electric vehicle charging. I would think this octogenarian from the other end of the political spectrum to me would be very good as a representative.swordfish said:
Untrue to say no effort, but not enough.GetYerCoreyOut said:
Yet figures clearly show the older generation as strong pro conservative voters, in which no effort has been made to combat the nations effect on climate change.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.
I actually wonder if all COP delegates should be under a certain age, only those for whom the devastating effects of climate change will seriously impair their lives.
Too many of the deniers, the nimbys, the self serving on the payroll of the oil companies, and the "don't care coz I won't be here brigade" are driving the effort to deal with climate change through token gestures.
We live in a world where oil companies have the audacity to proudly boast about their efforts to be environmentally friendly because they use eco friendly paint on their oil tankers. It beggars belief.6 -
50 isn’t too bad mate.Stu_of_Kunming said:Right, literally one of the worst cities in the country for pollution, vast amounts of China are significantly better than that. I can’t remember the last time I saw Kunming at +40
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Fair comment. I wasn't implying that anyone over a certain age fitted into one of the categories I described. It's just more likely.Stig said:
I don't think anyone should be ruled in or ruled out on the basis of their age. For me there are two key things that should decide anyone's role: 1. Their commitment to the cause 2. Their personal abilities to lead and represent us. I just listened to a very impressive man on the radio (at least, he was impressive in this one interview). That man is called Lord Deben. Now, I didn't know who Lord Deben was, so I googled him. He's an 83 year old Conservative who was a cabinet minister (indeed he was Party Chairman) when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister. For those old enough to remember, you may know him as John Selwyn Gummer. I personally was very surprised both at how passionately he spoke and how critical of the Government he was. He called Sunak's u-turn dangerous, he criticised Cameron's back tracking in the green agenda, and he outline a number of very sensible measures including taxing private avaition and taking the tax off of electric vehicle charging. I would think this octogenarian from the other end of the political spectrum to me would be very good as a representative.swordfish said:
Untrue to say no effort, but not enough.GetYerCoreyOut said:
Yet figures clearly show the older generation as strong pro conservative voters, in which no effort has been made to combat the nations effect on climate change.blackpool72 said:
Don't fall into the trap of old v young.GetYerCoreyOut said:Pretty shitty reading this thread as someone in their 20s. I find older generations are quick enough to slag of my generation but not got the balls to own up to what their generations have done to our planet.
It's a bit like blaming immigrants for everything.
Or the North ,South divide.
The real enemy is the super rich who avoid paying anywhere near what they should be contributing.
Hence 3% of the population owning about 97% of the wealth.
Politicians from all the major parties are to blame for this as nothing ever seems to get done to produce a more level playing field.
know your enemies It's not old v young.
I actually wonder if all COP delegates should be under a certain age, only those for whom the devastating effects of climate change will seriously impair their lives.
Too many of the deniers, the nimbys, the self serving on the payroll of the oil companies, and the "don't care coz I won't be here brigade" are driving the effort to deal with climate change through token gestures.
We live in a world where oil companies have the audacity to proudly boast about their efforts to be environmentally friendly because they use eco friendly paint on their oil tankers. It beggars belief.1 -
But it wont 'screw' us unless people vote them back in.kentaddick said:Johnson has just voiced his vehement opposition to sunak's change. This is all sunak vs johnson, screw the rest of us.
Depending on what detail is actually announced seems quite easy to me for Labour to say they will immediately reverse and then no real change (damage) has resulted in the relatively short time left before the election. It will be very difficult fir Labour not to win the election after all & hence industry will surely factor that in.
If however it is more 'tweaks' that may have some value we may be worrying over nothing & its more window dressing than any major change.0
