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Post-Match Thread: Stevenage vs Charlton Athletic | Saturday 16th September 2023 @ 3pm
Comments
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Didn’t see it and admittedly apples had more options on the bench but under Holden we only ever seemed to get worse as the game went on and the subs were made - in game management I believe they call it - well we seemed to have had the opposite today which is a positive - and anybody challenging our sports science outfit can also only be a good thing4
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CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.0 -
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending2 -
ref was awful and we should have had more penalties than we did, but if pens are the only way you can register a shot on target then you're always going to struggle
3 -
NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
By having Edun as a left footed LB that means CBT doesn't have to spend more time than needed as a defensive player other than when the opposition have a corner or set peice around our goal.
Being two footed Corey can play on the right as he has the the ability to go inside or use his speed on the outside. It may cause problems elsewhere if he goes right.
This is where Appleton will earn his money if he can set the team up to benefit the game changers and get steady performances out the rest. May need a miracle but IF we can get certain players on the field at the same time we can improve.
Enough to be top 6 is really doubtful but we need to start with a team that knows their job.
Over to you Apples and O'Donnell.
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Just look through the line ups of every team in league 1 that plays a 3 at the back. Pretty much every single one of them has a winger playing as one of the wing backs, it can work if you set it up properlySouthbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.1 -
Harder to get CBT on the ball when he's playing as a winger, as we saw yesterday. When he's at wingback, he gets it deep and can influence the game.5
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Would that not be the same if he played on the right as we’ve got plenty of right footed defenders to play behind him. And that means we can get Edun in the team as wellsoapboxsam said:NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
By having Edun as a left footed LB that means CBT doesn't have to spend more time than needed as a defensive player other than when the opposition have a corner or set peice around our goal.
Being two footed Corey can play on the right as he has the the ability to go inside or use his speed on the outside. It may cause problems elsewhere if he goes right.
This is where Appleton will earn his money if he can set the team up to benefit the game changers and get steady performances out the rest. May need a miracle but IF we can get certain players on the field at the same time we can improve.
Enough to be top 6 is really doubtful but we just need to improve first.0 -
Its possible that Anderson could easily have got a shot in at the very least if he hadn't been fouled - Same for Aneke, had the defender not punched it away.ateamofcorygibbs said:ref was awful and we should have had more penalties than we did, but if pens are the only way you can register a shot on target then you're always going to struggle1 -
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.1 -
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That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
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Enjoyed reading Appleton's post match comments, glad to see he is challenging people, as on and off the pitch everyone involved in the first team part of our club needs shaking up to break the cycle of failure.16
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But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.7 -
I thought that yesterday, he was too high most of the game and that position doesn’t exploit his explosive pace.Chunes said:Harder to get CBT on the ball when he's playing as a winger, as we saw yesterday. When he's at wingback, he gets it deep and can influence the game.2 -
I believe Curbishley played Stuart on the right side of the midfield because he was more defensively solid than a traditional wide player, and he'd naturally sit more narrow than a touchline-hugging winger, but he wasn't deployed there to mark a third opposition central midfielder.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
If the wide player in a 442 is required to cover that central space and pick up the extra midfielder, it leaves acres of space out wide. If a team plays a 442 in that way, and faces a 4231, then the opponent now has a 2v1 out wide because the wide player is marking the CM. At the very least they can get the ball to the edge of the box with a few passes.
Simeone is the only manager in the top leagues who is using the 442 with any success, and he does it by having the striker drop back to pick up the extra midfielder and ceding possession to the opposition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltJE4xDS_c
I agree we need two up front, it would be mad to play only one considering the options we now have. We built for 352 so why not play it?4 -
I watched on a stream, but thought I heard some anti EFL chants coming over.1
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Yes there was but I’d say it was more aimed at the referee’s incompetence than any deeper meaningseth plum said:I watched on a stream, but thought I heard some anti EFL chants coming over.5 -
Although a small thing, it was a good sign that they wanted to restart the game quickly after the penalty was scored and try and get a winner.1
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We had 8 minutes of both teams trying to win, which made those last 8 minutes much more watchable than the rest of the gamecafcforever said:Although a small thing, it was a good sign that they wanted to restart the game quickly after the penalty was scored and try and get a winner.0 -
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The advantage of 433 is what ever the opposition play, unless its something totally bonkers, their spare man is always a center half. Which especially at this level shouldn't cause you defensive problems from open play.0
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I believe it is the FA that oversees referees. Not the EFL.0
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You can do that yes and that is a good idea, and you will essentially end up with a 3-5-2 doing that because your full back will provide the width on that side with the wide midfielder tucking in. Camara would be probably the best suited to this role and Tennai Watson could be that attacking full back providing the width.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
We definitely need the 2 up front, but it is quite difficult to set the team up behind that and get our good players all on the pitch. 4-4-2 is what I would like to see but I’m just not sure Appleton will want to play that way1 -
We did build for 3-5-2 but I don’t think we finished our building. If we’d signed a good left sided centre back then 3-5-2 would work perfectly, but Thomas is our only natural LCB and I’m not sure whether he is the level needed.Chunes said:
I believe Curbishley played Stuart on the right side of the midfield because he was more defensively solid than a traditional wide player, and he'd naturally sit more narrow than a touchline-hugging winger, but he wasn't deployed there to mark a third opposition central midfielder.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
If the wide player in a 442 is required to cover that central space and pick up the extra midfielder, it leaves acres of space out wide. If a team plays a 442 in that way, and faces a 4231, then the opponent now has a 2v1 out wid because the wide player is marking the CM. At the very least they can get the ball to the edge of the box with a few passes.
Simeone is the only manager in the top leagues who is using the 442 with any success, and he does it by having the striker drop back to pick up the extra midfielder and ceding possession to the opposition.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltJE4xDS_c
I agree we need two up front, it would be mad to play only one considering the options we now have. We built for 352 so why not play it?
That’s why I’d swap CBT to the right because our RCB options are better so will be able to cover him0 -
Nitpicking a bit but Thomas is right footed and competent with his left. Can play the role but wouldn't say he's a natural there myself.NabySarr said:
We did build for 3-5-2 but I don’t think we finished our building. If we’d signed a good left sided centre back then 3-5-2 would work perfectly, but Thomas is our only natural LCB and I’m not sure whether he is the level needed.Chunes said:
I believe Curbishley played Stuart on the right side of the midfield because he was more defensively solid than a traditional wide player, and he'd naturally sit more narrow than a touchline-hugging winger, but he wasn't deployed there to mark a third opposition central midfielder.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
If the wide player in a 442 is required to cover that central space and pick up the extra midfielder, it leaves acres of space out wide. If a team plays a 442 in that way, and faces a 4231, then the opponent now has a 2v1 out wid because the wide player is marking the CM. At the very least they can get the ball to the edge of the box with a few passes.
Simeone is the only manager in the top leagues who is using the 442 with any success, and he does it by having the striker drop back to pick up the extra midfielder and ceding possession to the opposition.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltJE4xDS_c
I agree we need two up front, it would be mad to play only one considering the options we now have. We built for 352 so why not play it?
That’s why I’d swap CBT to the right because our RCB options are better so will be able to cover him0 -
I don’t know why he seems to get lots of hate, does a job anywhere across the defence. Seems like a good character and person to have in the squad tooShowmetheway2gohome said:Someone pointed out Thomas was behind CBT in the first game against orient.Probably CBT best game of season.I think Thomas has actually looked most reliable cb this season. When his been picked.
I’m not sure if he is good enough for a promotion winning team at this level, but would agree he’s been more reliable than any of our other centre backs so far (though that is a very very low bar)6 -
Has the refereeing always been this bad? Feels like it's been particularly bad so far this season
No problem at all with the tightening up on time wasting / kicking the ball away / arguing, but I can think of at least 5 shocking decisions we haven't got and we are only in September7 -
We get over run in central midfield with 3. That's why people don't play 442.NabySarr said:
You can do that yes and that is a good idea, and you will essentially end up with a 3-5-2 doing that because your full back will provide the width on that side with the wide midfielder tucking in. Camara would be probably the best suited to this role and Tennai Watson could be that attacking full back providing the width.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
We definitely need the 2 up front, but it is quite difficult to set the team up behind that and get our good players all on the pitch. 4-4-2 is what I would like to see but I’m just not sure Appleton will want to play that way
If you play 442 against a 433 your spare man is a center half and theirs is a center mid, if you tuck someone in to make a middle 3 you get a 2 v 1 over load on that wing. It might work if you have John Stones at center back?
2 -
Or you sit behind the ball and play more direct/counter attacking football. Which is the kind of 4-4-2 I was saying I think we’d suit at the moment. With a very good front 2 that would work with direct football, Taylor and Dobson in the middle both better at longer passing and have plenty of legs, quick and direct wingers. I think it would suit us while Fraser is out with the squad we’ve gotCafc43v3r said:
We get over run in central midfield with 3. That's why people don't play 442.NabySarr said:
You can do that yes and that is a good idea, and you will essentially end up with a 3-5-2 doing that because your full back will provide the width on that side with the wide midfielder tucking in. Camara would be probably the best suited to this role and Tennai Watson could be that attacking full back providing the width.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
But why can't we play 442 with someone on the right being tucked in to a more central role instead of playing out wide eg like Graham Stuart used to do in our PL days?NabySarr said:
That’s the idea of it though, CBT is on the team sheet a wing back but doesn’t have to actually do the defensive part if you set it up right. We did this against Orient but for some reason Holden decided to scrap it. I would prefer us to set up in a 4-4-2 for now, but I can’t see Appleton doing that as I think he wants more possession and control of the game which you won’t get with a 2 man midfield.Southbank said:
I think 'a wingback who does not have to do any defending' is not a wingback.NabySarr said:
He’s played well at wing back plenty of times, as you say the problem is us not having good enough centre backs behind him. But how else are we going to fit him in the team and get a front 2 on the pitch?Southbank said:
CBT IS NOT A WINGBACK.NabySarr said:
What about CBT on the right and Edun on the left? It’s difficult to put a team together that has that front 2 but also gets our other talented players like CBT in. 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 are probably the only options and I think Appleton will want more control of the game than playing 4-4-2 offerssoapboxsam said:Leaburn is in just his 2nd season of men's football and surprise, Surprise, Miles will have games when the ball doesn't stick or he looks limited. More so if he gets isolated as a central striker in a 3.
Alway believed in tandem partnerships up front and at CB whatever the formation is in the rest of the team.
Leaburn and May can work off each other so obviously if we play a 3 with CBT on the field at the same time then Alfie and Miles will link while the X factor player Corey can be the wide man.
There surely can't be anyone that thinks if/when we play 3-5-2 that CBT is the LWB 🤦🏻♂️
With Edun available why would that happen!
16 man (17 for Cafc yesterday !) game over about 105 minutes so flexibility and fluidity is key which to those of us who started coaching with the youngest age groups where roll on and roll off subs was a requirement, were used to the chaos.
Never has a manager/Head coach and the analysts been so important as the game continues to evolve even if the skill levels don't improve in the mediocre 3rd tier.
🤞Fraser, May and Leaburn can be on the field at the same time soon.
He works in a 442 or a 433 as one of the front three.
Curbs ssid pretty much that postmatch yesterday when discussing what formation we should have going forward with the players we have.
The biggest problem MA has is that we do not seem to have even one consistently reliable centre back. A clean sheet looks impossible just now.Loads of teams now play wingers as wing backs, but they have defenders in the back 3 comfortable covering out wide. We don’t have any on the left but Ness, Abankwah, Jones will all be more comfortable covering CBT if he’s playing on the right so he won’t even have to defend. The Orient home game was CBT’s best this season (and our best game as a team) and he was playing wing back so it can work, but we were set up so that he didn’t have to do any defending
CBT is a winger. He can play on the edge of a midfield 4 or a front 3. I think a front 3 of CBT, May and Leaburn/Aneke/Tadic would be pretty devastating at this level.
Also thought Watson L has a touch of the Gallaghers about him. A mid 3 of Dobson,Watson and Fraser could be good.
But the back 4 is just a mess. And it looks like we may have finally solved the left back problem but created a right back hole at the same time.It would look something like this in practice, with Ness/Abankwah playing RCB as they are comfortable at RB so CBT won’t have to worry about doing more defending. This is how we set up against Orient (CBT on the left with Thomas behind) and we got our only clean sheet and best performance of the season, so it definitely can work and is a way to get our best players on the pitch.AMB
Ness Hector Jones
Edun
Dobson Taylor
CBT CampbellLeaburn May
So the midfield 4 would be something like Taylor/Watson, Dobson, Fraser, B-T.
That would also use B-T in a position where he doesn't have to play as a wing back, which surely it most be evident to all that this is not his strength.
Whatver we do, we clearly need 2 up front. It would be utter madness not to utilise both May and Leaburn.
We definitely need the 2 up front, but it is quite difficult to set the team up behind that and get our good players all on the pitch. 4-4-2 is what I would like to see but I’m just not sure Appleton will want to play that way
Of you play 442 against a 433 your spare man is a center half and theirs is a center mid, if you tuck someone in to make a middle 3 you get a 2 v 1 over load on that wing. It might work if you have John Stones at center back?That’s not what Appleton/Scott wants though so that’s why I’d expect 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 for more control and probably better options long term for when Fraser and Camara return. 3-5-2 would be my preference but I’d expect Appleton might go with 4-3-31
