Qatar World Cup - Non Football Related Thread

Stu_of_Kunming said:

RodneyCharltonTrotta said:

satsuma27 said:

Sometimes I feel we in the West feel like we've got a monopoly on the truth. I feel like the old mother's saying "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" is appropriate here. Not condoning Qatar's policies, but maybe we should look at all the bad stuff we do.

The West and western culture is the most tolerant and democratic of any culture in the world today with excellent human rights comparative to elsewhere.

China, Russia, most of Asia and much of South America are horrendous in many aspects in that respect.


Sick of the constant western bashing, navel gazing  and self flagellation as if the west is the source of all the world's current and historic issues and the rest of the world is/ was a peaceful, progressive utopia before westerners interfered.

We are bloody lucky to live in the West and for our values, equal opportunities and liberal ideologies which whilst not perfect are far better than any other system currently in play.

Whilst I don’t disagree with any of that, does that make it ok to lie / exaggerate about situations in other countries in order to make them look even worse? 

What about blackmailing countries over much needed aid in exchange for adopting western ideas / standards? 

Unusual definition of blackmail when it's the "blackmailer" handing over money

Algarveaddick said:

DubaiCAFC said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Everyone has a different moral compass 

each to their own

The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there 

Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is . 

Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .

that’s my grown up piece for the year 

So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?

UK press seem to ignore that..

I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..

UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories! 

I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted? 

Unless that is all made up too?    

No, you haven't made it up. Not sure about deduction from wages, I haven't heard that before. If they are working for Government backed companies, they wouldn't have had passports taken off them, but private companies then pretty high chance passports would have been taken off them. 

When you say no choice to live, that is pretty much the same with most international working contracts, that includes accommodation, I know when I moved to the UAE I wasn't given a choice where I lived. 

But the labours, are given free accommodation, they have food delivered to where they live, they have free electric, A/C they are also provided with internet. They would also be given health insurance as well... Plus they are earning more money than they would be..

 Do I agree with the way they are treated, 100% not, are they treated fairly 100% not. Is it right 100% not. But my point is, everyone is commenting on it, without really having a total understanding of the circumstance, they are coming from and other benefits they are getting!  

Off_it said:

What a thoroughly depressing thread.

Although I did think the comparison of the conditions of migrant workers in Qatar to those in, say rural Lincolnshire, was pretty special mental gymnastics.

At least they wouldn't get wet and cold I suppose... 

grumpyaddick said:

Just flown on Qatar Airlines to Doha for the first time and they are a complete shambles.

Couldn't organise a stoning in a whorehouse.

Late flights, clueless ground staff, lost my bags, failure to offer any apology or compensation.

I would be very surprised if more than half the teams manage to get to to Doha airport which is like a giant dystopian pimped-up motorway service station.

Don't  believe their glossy adverts or David bloody Beckham who last time I saw him,  was pimping for Chinese property developers in Hainan. 

Fake airline, fake place, fake world cup. 

Grumpy living up to his name here, WP 
  

Friend Or Defoe said:

cafctom said:

The amount of coverage and discussion going towards the topic of alcohol is ridiculous. Are people at home in England really that concerned about whether people on the other side of the world are having a pint?

What's your view of homosexuality being illegal out there? 

Sorry - Why on earth are you asking me that question in response to a comment about alcohol?

cafctom said:

Friend Or Defoe said:

cafctom said:

The amount of coverage and discussion going towards the topic of alcohol is ridiculous. Are people at home in England really that concerned about whether people on the other side of the world are having a pint?

What's your view of homosexuality being illegal out there? 

I don’t agree with it, whatsoever.

Sorry - Why on earth are you asking me that question in response to a comment about alcohol?

I'm not concerned about the Mickey Mouse stuff like beer, accommodation and media exaggeration that people are discussing to try and justify things not being that bad out there. 

DubaiCAFC said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Big_Bad_World said:

ValleyGary said:

SELR_addicks said:

DubaiCAFC said:

SELR_addicks said:

DubaiCAFC said:

SELR_addicks said:

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1592147541524885504?t=cA2wl0x0LS-RfoMbl00EIA&s=19

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1592148183794290689?t=DP2qNzxMQOQZAvI_vLKJwQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1592170609899081729?t=oX24rv6Ea3LV2_q5-oq00Q&s=19

This interesting.. Fanzones are still being sponsored by Budweiser - and will remain to be! 

Beer is being freely sold in stadiums, fanzones and hotels. You just can't walk around the streets drinking!

It will be pretty pricey, as it beer is anyway in the world! Will be around 9 quid a pint from my understanding in the fanzones.. 

No alcohol in the stadiums actually.

Okay - different to what I have heard..

Edit - within the hospitality sections they are serving within the stadium!  

"Fifa have said ticket holders will have access to drink options within the stadium perimeter prior to kick-off and after the final whistle.

Inside the stadium bowl ticket holders will only be able to purchase non-alcoholic beer and soft drinks."

So not in the stadium, there will be some outside in the 'perimeter'. Which Qatar have announced this weekend they're not happy with and want moved anyway. 

https://hospitality.fifa.com/2022/en/faqs/making-a-purchase/hospitality-area-and-private-suites-details/q-will-alcohol-be-served-andor-permitted-in-the-hospitality-areas-of-the-stadium/

So in the stadium, then. In the hospitality sections that was mentioned on here a few posts back but incorrectly rebuffed.

In fairness if you said 'inside the stadium' to most people they would take that as meaning in the general seats.

If you've got say a 50k capacity, it only being available in hospitality areas, probably means 2-3k fans max will be able to get a beer.

For me personally (i've got tickets for 2 games), it doesn't really bother me. Will actually save the hassle of feeling obliged to queue for most of half time just to neck a pint in 2 minutes before rushing back to my seat.

Same - it's a little different to going to watch a normal league game.. Few beers somewhere before the match, then soak up the atmosphere around the ground. 

I wonder why that is though? What happens in all the different divisions of their football league games every Saturday…oh

Fumbluff said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Big_Bad_World said:

ValleyGary said:

SELR_addicks said:

DubaiCAFC said:

SELR_addicks said:

DubaiCAFC said:

SELR_addicks said:

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1592147541524885504?t=cA2wl0x0LS-RfoMbl00EIA&s=19

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1592148183794290689?t=DP2qNzxMQOQZAvI_vLKJwQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1592170609899081729?t=oX24rv6Ea3LV2_q5-oq00Q&s=19

This interesting.. Fanzones are still being sponsored by Budweiser - and will remain to be! 

Beer is being freely sold in stadiums, fanzones and hotels. You just can't walk around the streets drinking!

It will be pretty pricey, as it beer is anyway in the world! Will be around 9 quid a pint from my understanding in the fanzones.. 

No alcohol in the stadiums actually.

Okay - different to what I have heard..

Edit - within the hospitality sections they are serving within the stadium!  

"Fifa have said ticket holders will have access to drink options within the stadium perimeter prior to kick-off and after the final whistle.

Inside the stadium bowl ticket holders will only be able to purchase non-alcoholic beer and soft drinks."

So not in the stadium, there will be some outside in the 'perimeter'. Which Qatar have announced this weekend they're not happy with and want moved anyway. 

https://hospitality.fifa.com/2022/en/faqs/making-a-purchase/hospitality-area-and-private-suites-details/q-will-alcohol-be-served-andor-permitted-in-the-hospitality-areas-of-the-stadium/

So in the stadium, then. In the hospitality sections that was mentioned on here a few posts back but incorrectly rebuffed.

In fairness if you said 'inside the stadium' to most people they would take that as meaning in the general seats.

If you've got say a 50k capacity, it only being available in hospitality areas, probably means 2-3k fans max will be able to get a beer.

For me personally (i've got tickets for 2 games), it doesn't really bother me. Will actually save the hassle of feeling obliged to queue for most of half time just to neck a pint in 2 minutes before rushing back to my seat.

Same - it's a little different to going to watch a normal league game.. Few beers somewhere before the match, then soak up the atmosphere around the ground. 

I wonder why that is though? What happens in all the different divisions of their football league games every Saturday…oh

I think there is nearly unanimous agreement the tournament shouldn’t be held there, but the fact is that it is being held there. That’s not gonna change. Doesn’t mean people should look down on anyone who is looking forward to the tournament or going there to support their team. 

Anyone seen Fifa Uncovered on Netflix?

Algarveaddick said:

DubaiCAFC said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Everyone has a different moral compass 

each to their own

The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there 

Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is . 

Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .

that’s my grown up piece for the year 

So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?

UK press seem to ignore that..

I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..

UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories! 

I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted? 

Unless that is all made up too?    

No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment)
Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process).
Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)

QatarNapsy said:

Algarveaddick said:

DubaiCAFC said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Everyone has a different moral compass 

each to their own

The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there 

Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is . 

Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .

that’s my grown up piece for the year 

So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?

UK press seem to ignore that..

I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..

UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories! 

I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted? 

Unless that is all made up too?    

No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment)
Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process).
Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)

Does the law really stop it though? It’s illegal here too, but was wife up until covid knocked that nonsense on the head 

DubaiCAFC said:

QatarNapsy said:

Algarveaddick said:

DubaiCAFC said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Everyone has a different moral compass 

each to their own

The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there 

Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is . 

Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .

that’s my grown up piece for the year 

So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?

UK press seem to ignore that..

I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..

UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories! 

I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted? 

Unless that is all made up too?    

No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment)
Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process).
Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)

Thanks Napsy for the clarification. amazing what people believe in the British press. There are few Charlton fans heading to the England V Wales game, would be good to meet a fellow Charlton fan.

I have tickets to this match also, have to organise something pre match then.

Also regarding the beer in the stadium........I was in and around Khalifa Stadium today and can confirm that Budweiser have outlets in the stadium perimeter (after ticket check and security, before entering the actual stadium) and look to be serving Budweiser & Budweiser Zero. The outlets are away from the entrance gates so maybe this is the compromise of being slightly less visible?? 

DubaiCAFC said:

Stu_of_Kunming said:

QatarNapsy said:

Algarveaddick said:

DubaiCAFC said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Everyone has a different moral compass 

each to their own

The way most of those Middle East countries have built their infrastructure etc and treat their cheap labour foreign workers is utter filth and a reason I won’t be going out there 

Having supported charities that have helped migrant workers and their families come to terms with the shit they’ve been put through I’m gutted this tournament is taking place where it is . 

Of course nowhere is perfect but some less so than others .

that’s my grown up piece for the year 

So what is the difference between Eastern Europeans, working on the farms and factories in the UK that live in 30 year old caravans with no running water or heaters?

UK press seem to ignore that..

I am not defending the way the workers are treated here, but they are certainly looked after a lot better than you think, and they are creating a better live for their families, and have a better standard of living than they would in the countries they have been coming from. Not sure that can be said for the farm workers..

UK press seem to have away of not having all the facts in place, or printing both sides of the stories! 

I thought that the workers in Qatar had no choice where they can live and have their passports taken off them, as well as a portion of their wages automatically deducted? 

Unless that is all made up too?    

No choice where to live: True (Most of the time its provided accommodation, as is my situation at the moment)
Have passports taken: False....its actually against the law here to withold someones passport (aside from initial residency visa process).
Portion of wages automatically deducted: Not normal at all....... Only reason would be if they owe a recruiter (which unfortunately would be a fellow national)

Does the law really stop it though? It’s illegal here too, but was wife up until covid knocked that nonsense on the head 

They try to police it that is for sure, some major companies have had huge fines. As I said earlier government based companies certainly wouldn't withhold passports, but non government may do!

The mental thing here was government owned institutions (mostly universities) were the worst for it 

Friend Or Defoe said:

cafctom said:

Friend Or Defoe said:

cafctom said:

The amount of coverage and discussion going towards the topic of alcohol is ridiculous. Are people at home in England really that concerned about whether people on the other side of the world are having a pint?

What's your view of homosexuality being illegal out there? 

I don’t agree with it, whatsoever.

Sorry - Why on earth are you asking me that question in response to a comment about alcohol?

I'm not concerned about the Mickey Mouse stuff like beer, accommodation and media exaggeration that people are discussing to try and justify things not being that bad out there. 

I made a comment about the over-the-top coverage of the availability of alcohol, and you’ve responded by asking my opinion about homosexuality laws without any kind of context as to why.