Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
-
I haven't seen much evidence that he's lost the dressing room. I feel like that's just something often said when results are bad and there's a feeling the manager should go. We've had lots of players who were clearly not trying over the years, I think this team tries. They run, they compete... There's just zero quality in there.17
-
You won’t find a comment on here from me saying he has lost the dressing room, I haven’t got a clue regarding that matterCallumcafc said:
Ok but you can’t say that and then also say he’s lost the dressing room surely?eaststandmike said:
This is spot on, take a look at Small’s video from last week, he talks as if NJ is the messiahBraziliance said:
The players defended Appleton last season, even some coaches.StrikerFirmani said:
Even though it is factually incorrect?Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Excellent post. It needs to be printed off and sent to our owners!th0rryy said:I think that fans staying away from The Valley and a reduction of actual consistent attendance (as in, some kind of reality-based metric for tracking attendance through the turnstiles of season ticket holders, for example) will be, from the business-side of things, one of the non-footballing reasons that pressure will be applied to NJ. As so many have said before, success on the pitch goes symbiotically with revenue growth off it. This is the angle that may apply more strain on the tenure of NJ, as people simply won't want to turn up to see awful football AND poor results.
Although I absolutely agree that we need stability in our manager, I feel we have already reached a notable end point for what NJ can offer us and our fears of him being being the more recent incarnation of himself rather than the earlier one at Luton have come true. It's completely true that he came in last year and did perform a level of managerial magic to prevent what was looking, prior to Feb/Mar this year, a L1 relegation fight. However, you are only as good as your most recent results in the savage world of football management, and only extreme outliers of sustained success can counteract that. His recent press conferences are political answers to keep him in a job, and the fans are seeing right through it.
With a full pre-season and recruitment with his oversight, we've played overly negative football with the aim of grinding out every result, coin-flipping (almost) every game. In league fixtures, practically all of them have been tight affairs. Last season, I remember a Derby fan talking about their unstylish football on Charlton Live and how Louis had to remind him that they were still in the automatics. I could absolutely tolerate this NJ anti-football if it was getting us out of this sh*thole that is L1, but it's just not. At best, it's very rarely got us wins, and at worst, it's regularly lost us games and as good as written off our season before Xmas (if not arguably before).
Honestly, I feel the blame does lie with both NJ and Andy Scott for the hole we find ourselves in currently - I know people want to find blame with both Methven and Rodwell too, but I feel they are not as much at fault here for the more notably visible issues from the footballing side (unless you want to attribute them for the mess of NJ/AS in the first place, which was tricky to predict at the time). Recruitment over the summer has had us stagnate - we've been better defensively when AMitchell and LJones have been paired together, but gone significantly backwards in the attacking elements in selling May and not signing an attacking/creative midfielder or enough pace/crossing from wing backs and their cover. That falls on NJ and AS for incorrectly identifying and signing players, plus FULLY IGNORING the loan system. This is where my ire lies, because despite January being an option to use to recruit, your core identity of a style of play needs to be there before that - it simply isn't there and apart from a couple of signings, the summer recruitment was nowhere near good enough.
I'd sack NJ and remove AS as well. AS has failed consistently over time, and NJ, I fear, has lost the dressing room. I see no reason why things will improve as things stand. The only argument against that is that NJ has been through this situation last season and that we don't have a realistic replacement in mind. I have no idea why we would keep AS, given his consistency of bad signings. If this season is a write-off behind the scenes, then the planning should already be happening for next season without either of them. Honestly, I'd bite the bullet now and let a new manager have January and the remainder of the season to salvage something. Delaying that any longer feels pretty pointless.
I don't want any more anti-football. I don't want any more signings like the ones in the summer, from either NJ or AS. I want a manager on the up and not on the way down. I want a Charlton team to be actually front footed and be proactive and not reactive. I want my academy graduates to not regress to only be off the ball players.
Time for change.
Senior players have come out in defence or agreement with Jones recently. Secondly you honestly think we would have got 2 clean sheets if the dressing room was lost.
Lost the fans I would agree with but not the dressing room, as yet anyway.
It's rare a human will bite a hand that feeds. A lot of people would paint Kim Jong Un a hero so long as he paid them. I wouldn't buy into what a player says too much.No manager will lose the dressing room ever? Glad we’re throwing that old cliche out the window…2 -
Our attendances say it all.Neil_Heaney said:
Yeah agree, but still think this sounds more like "we've been shit for so long" rather than "we've lost our identity."blackpool72 said:
For me is a succession of poor owners, poor senior management teams, poor managers and poor players.Neil_Heaney said:
Interesting comment. Not necessarily disputing it at all, but wondered what makes you feel this way beyond the poor side and low attendances...AFKABartram said:
Sadly I feel like I’ve steadily lost those things over the last five years or so Bob. There doesn’t feel like there’s much identity left in the club nowadays. All stems from on pitch decline, but it’s really not the club it used to be imo. Saddens me to say itbobmunro said:AndyG said:Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t
I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.
I think next season will be about our 11th in the last 15 seasons we have been in league one.
Plus despite what Charlie and the gang keep telling us there doesn't appear to be any signs of things improving any time soon.
Totally depressing.
The club's identity definitely suffers when its chronically shit, but you'd hope our history, fanbase, local area etc keeps that flame alive even if things are bad on the pitch. As I say, haven't made my mind up on where we are with that.
I still think back to when the Roland fiasco was going on. The majority view was that we just wanted him gone, no matter the cost. Well, he's gone now (mostly), and we are pretty stable, just shit.
The flame is barely alive. We have no atmosphere at home (the covered end do their bit), empty seats everywhere, a lack of buzz around the area, fans losing interest by the numbers.
We have a team to watch every week, there's no real crisis that I'm aware of? The stadium hasn't moved, yet collectively, we don't show up for this club. Before it was "I'm not giving a penny more to Roland" and now the attitude is "I'm not paying to watch that shit"
Just to make it clear as well, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone for not going, I've had spells where I couldn't go. A two year period where I struggled to go living in Essex, and a 6 year period where I lived up North. I will also gladly admit I don't enjoy going Charlton anymore, but go when I can because I feel that's what I need to do. I hope that turns into more of a want again in the near future. I also understand it isn't a cheap hobby, and that's where the original point comes into play, if our old and regular fans aren't going, where are the new ones coming from?
The point is, there's a severe lack of interest. We are a 'dying' club imo.6 -
We talk about the team and manager being shit (it's a bit of both) but imagine walking out to that half empty stadium every other week, where pretty much only one stand actually sings and backs the team for most of the game.
You can be overwhelmingly positive and support a team, you can be completely toxic to try and motivate a team, we are neither, easy stadium for visiting teams to play in, and not much of a home impact for players to take advantage of (talking more recent years in particular)
There's a real air of acceptance and tolerance around the club, and it feels like a lot of people are just waiting for us to get lucky, be good at football again, and then people will be bothered to turn up.
Sorry if that's harsh but it's how I see it and why I would agree with any comments that the club doesn't feel the same anymore.10 -
Unfortunately your thoughts match those of so many people mate. I can’t explain it but all through Roland and then Mouthall etc I never once started to lose that Charlton feeling but now there is absolutely no chance of me coming to the valley to witness the shite being served up for me that is a big commitment in terms of time and money living where I do. However now I even have to force myself to watch Charlton TV it is all so depressing ! It seems this lot are succeeding where Roland and Mouthall failed 😞Braziliance said:
Our attendances say it all.Neil_Heaney said:
Yeah agree, but still think this sounds more like "we've been shit for so long" rather than "we've lost our identity."blackpool72 said:
For me is a succession of poor owners, poor senior management teams, poor managers and poor players.Neil_Heaney said:
Interesting comment. Not necessarily disputing it at all, but wondered what makes you feel this way beyond the poor side and low attendances...AFKABartram said:
Sadly I feel like I’ve steadily lost those things over the last five years or so Bob. There doesn’t feel like there’s much identity left in the club nowadays. All stems from on pitch decline, but it’s really not the club it used to be imo. Saddens me to say itbobmunro said:AndyG said:Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t
I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.
I think next season will be about our 11th in the last 15 seasons we have been in league one.
Plus despite what Charlie and the gang keep telling us there doesn't appear to be any signs of things improving any time soon.
Totally depressing.
The club's identity definitely suffers when its chronically shit, but you'd hope our history, fanbase, local area etc keeps that flame alive even if things are bad on the pitch. As I say, haven't made my mind up on where we are with that.
I still think back to when the Roland fiasco was going on. The majority view was that we just wanted him gone, no matter the cost. Well, he's gone now (mostly), and we are pretty stable, just shit.
The flame is barely alive. We have no atmosphere at home (the covered end do their bit), empty seats everywhere, a lack of buzz around the area, fans losing interest by the numbers.
We have a team to watch every week, there's no real crisis that I'm aware of? The stadium hasn't moved, yet collectively, we don't show up for this club. Before it was "I'm not giving a penny more to Roland" and now the attitude is "I'm not paying to watch that shit"
Just to make it clear as well, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone for not going, I've had spells where I couldn't go. A two year period where I struggled to go living in Essex, and a 6 year period where I lived up North. I will also gladly admit I don't enjoy going Charlton anymore, but go when I can because I feel that's what I need to do. I hope that turns into more of a want again in the near future.
The point is, there's a severe lack of interest. We are a 'dying' club imo.1 -
63 next month, do miss a busy, happy, optimistic Valley. Would love to be there with sons (one had a season ticket for nineteen years), grandkids. Just cant see it in the near future3
-
Ditch them allSilverdreammachine said:Would rather see Methven, Scott and Rodwell go before Jones. Sad to see some (or one) in particular brown-nosing Methven on the other site (pics taken etc with)1 -
I disagree we have no quality, I do however believe our players aren't playing with the freedom to play how they can. They need to shake a bit of that off and start playing for themselves a bit. Sticking to Nath's tactics so rigidly is ruining any chance of either keeping possession or taking players on.6
-
Tend to agree with both of your posts mate. It's a bleak outlook.Braziliance said:We talk about the team and manager being shit (it's a bit of both) but imagine walking out to that half empty stadium every other week, where pretty much only one stand actually sings and backs the team for most of the game.
You can be overwhelmingly positive and support a team, you can be completely toxic to try and motivate a team, we are neither, easy stadium for visiting teams to play in, and not much of a home impact for players to take advantage of (talking more recent years in particular)
There's a real air of acceptance and tolerance around the club, and it feels like a lot of people are just waiting for us to get lucky, be good at football again, and then people will be bothered to turn up.
Sorry if that's harsh but it's how I see it and why I would agree with any comments that the club doesn't feel the same anymore.
Having an enemy and a common goal in the Roland and ESI days definitely helped mitigate the rubbish on the pitch, as it felt like we had a purpose. I basically just went to the protest games in those days and I know others were in the same boat. At the moment we're lifeless and left with nothing.
Think it's a fair point about The Valley being an uninspiring place for the players too (even though a lot of this is their fault). I'm quite envious of teams like Bradford who have been stagnant in League 2 for years but still turn up in numbers much bigger than ours. Maybe it's because of the old 'there are more things to do in London' argument, or we are indeed just losing our purpose and identity as mentioned.
Anyway, to try and bring this back around to Jones, it does show how the negative impact of his football is quite deep and all-encompassing. It doesn't just leave us struggling in the league, the total non-entertainment gives another reason for people not to go and for our club to die a little more...
All very depressing. I'm confident that an upswing on the pitch a la 2018/19 can revive us quickly, but I just don't know where that comes from at the moment.
3 -
Clubs like Bradford are in a completely different situation to us, how many football matches can someone go and watch at 3pm on a Saturday within say 10 miles of the valley ? Even during the dark days of ESI the football was miles better than the current offering. I normally take a group of friends to atleast 2 matches a season but I’m actually too embarrassed to take them this year. Again not really because of the results ! It’s just a boring dire spectacle that only us hardcore fans should have to endureNeil_Heaney said:
Tend to agree with both of your posts mate. It's a bleak outlook.Braziliance said:We talk about the team and manager being shit (it's a bit of both) but imagine walking out to that half empty stadium every other week, where pretty much only one stand actually sings and backs the team for most of the game.
You can be overwhelmingly positive and support a team, you can be completely toxic to try and motivate a team, we are neither, easy stadium for visiting teams to play in, and not much of a home impact for players to take advantage of (talking more recent years in particular)
There's a real air of acceptance and tolerance around the club, and it feels like a lot of people are just waiting for us to get lucky, be good at football again, and then people will be bothered to turn up.
Sorry if that's harsh but it's how I see it and why I would agree with any comments that the club doesn't feel the same anymore.
Having an enemy and a common goal in the Roland and ESI days definitely helped mitigate the rubbish on the pitch, as it felt like we had a purpose. I basically just went to the protest games in those days and I know others were in the same boat. At the moment we're lifeless and left with nothing.
Think it's a fair point about The Valley being an uninspiring place for the players too (even though a lot of this is their fault). I'm quite envious of teams like Bradford who have been stagnant in League 2 for years but still turn up in numbers much bigger than ours. Maybe it's because of the old 'there are more things to do in London' argument, or we are indeed just losing our purpose and identity as mentioned.
Anyway, to try and bring this back around to Jones, it does show how the negative impact of his football is quite deep and all-encompassing. It doesn't just leave us struggling in the league, the total non-entertainment gives another reason for people not to go and for our club to die a little more...
All very depressing. I'm confident that an upswing on the pitch a la 2018/19 can revive us quickly, but I just don't know where that comes from at the moment.2 - Sponsored links:
-
Far more than the vast majority of this division spent on a striker.Redhenry said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this a serious question?Redhenry said:
And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.Redhenry said:
Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHONabySarr said:
It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the leagueRedhenry said:We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO
Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off
Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.
But what you actually said was it's "more to do with the level of player we can afford". We bought Ahadme, who cost more than pretty much any club in the division apart from Birmingham spent on a single player in the summer. It's pretty clear that money could've been better spent, which is surely therefore a recruitment problem?
How much did he cost?0 -
How do you know? Just putting it out there. We are told that more money is being spent than others clubs but we don't know for sure! I have my doubts...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Far more than the vast majority of this division spent on a striker.Redhenry said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this a serious question?Redhenry said:
And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.Redhenry said:
Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHONabySarr said:
It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the leagueRedhenry said:We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO
Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off
Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.
But what you actually said was it's "more to do with the level of player we can afford". We bought Ahadme, who cost more than pretty much any club in the division apart from Birmingham spent on a single player in the summer. It's pretty clear that money could've been better spent, which is surely therefore a recruitment problem?
How much did he cost?3 -
I don’t recall being told what the money was being spent on. Charlie said we had a “top four budget” but looking at the dross we have signed you have to assume the budget includes wages because the transfer fees must have been minimal.Redhenry said:
How do you know? Just putting it out there. We are told that more money is being spent than others clubs but we don't know for sure! I have my doubts...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Far more than the vast majority of this division spent on a striker.Redhenry said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this a serious question?Redhenry said:
And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.Redhenry said:
Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHONabySarr said:
It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the leagueRedhenry said:We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO
Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off
Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.
But what you actually said was it's "more to do with the level of player we can afford". We bought Ahadme, who cost more than pretty much any club in the division apart from Birmingham spent on a single player in the summer. It's pretty clear that money could've been better spent, which is surely therefore a recruitment problem?
How much did he cost?
0 -
the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahadme.
We need proper investment in the team to get out of this shite League...3 -
Blimey I never heard we paid a million for Coventry, where did you hear thatRedhenry said:the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahame...0 -
on here probablyeaststandmike said:
Blimey I never heard we paid a million for Coventry, where did you hear thatRedhenry said:the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahame...
2 -
You’ll never know for sure how much we’ve paid for an individual player. “player trading” is reported in our annual accounts but I think that’s a net sum (I.e all transfer fees received minus all transfer fees paid in the reporting period). People who tell you with certainty how much we paid for a player are 99% of the time either making it up or regurgitating information that someone else made up.Redhenry said:the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahadme.
We need proper investment in the team to get out of this shite League...Salaries are reported in the annual accounts too, but this is on a whole company basis rather than player by player. So you can surmise from our latest accounts that we have one of the highest wage budgets in the division, but you can’t figure exactly how much we’re overpaying each of these wastes of space.0 -
As you say, I reckon we are on a net profit for player sales over the last 12 months . Frightening to imagine how much the likes of Docherty are being paideaststandmike said:
I don’t recall being told what the money was being spent on. Charlie said we had a “top four budget” but looking at the dross we have signed you have to assume the budget includes wages because the transfer fees must have been minimal.Redhenry said:
How do you know? Just putting it out there. We are told that more money is being spent than others clubs but we don't know for sure! I have my doubts...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Far more than the vast majority of this division spent on a striker.Redhenry said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Is this a serious question?Redhenry said:
And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.Redhenry said:
Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHONabySarr said:
It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the leagueRedhenry said:We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO
Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off
Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.
But what you actually said was it's "more to do with the level of player we can afford". We bought Ahadme, who cost more than pretty much any club in the division apart from Birmingham spent on a single player in the summer. It's pretty clear that money could've been better spent, which is surely therefore a recruitment problem?
How much did he cost?1 -
I really thought he’d be gone by now.4
-
It came from the West Ham endeaststandmike said:
Blimey I never heard we paid a million for Coventry, where did you hear thatRedhenry said:the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahame...
https://www.westhamzone.com/news/west-ham-agree-1million-fee-for-conor-coventry-exit-to-charlton-deal-could-be-completed-on-friday/
0 - Sponsored links:
-
For Coventry? He’s alright, one of the better players in the squad (which is faint praise to be fair).Chunes said:
However much we paid, it was too much.Redhenry said:the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahadme.
We need proper investment in the team to get out of this shite League...0 -
Good job then that he didn't cost us a bean, except in wages.Chunes said:
However much we paid, it was too much.Redhenry said:the rumour we paid a mill for Coventry, turned out it was nowt, hence my question, how much did we pay for Ahadme.
We need proper investment in the team to get out of this shite League...
0 -
0
-
Ah, in that case I don't think anyone has a clue but all this talk of a million is just rubbish. Heavily weighted with add-on payments is my guess, small upfront fee.Chunes said:
0 -
Callumcafc said:
If by trouble you mean treading water in League One, I know.ElfsborgAddick said:Callumcafc said:ElfsborgAddick said:Scoham said:
I think Gavin Carter’s new role suggests they have concerns but expect they don’t want to keep sacking managers. We’d likely end up with an appointment part way through the transfer window which isn’t ideal.Oh Eddie Youds... said:We’re playing the worst football the valley has ever seen, have only managed to beat bottom placed Burton (who had 10 men) in the last 8 league games & are on track to repeat our ‘lowest finish for 98 years’ record but the owners do not see any immediate concern??
Unless there is a dramatic turnaround in our fortunes very soon, I will be amazed if Methven, Rodwell and Scott are still at Charlton come the start of next season.
At last, it looks like you're coming around to the fact we are in trouble.
If by trouble you mean relegation, you’ve been saying that the last three years…
In the last 12 game form table we are firmly in the relegation zone. It took two changes of management to get us out of this position last season.7
