I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

AndyG

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

bobmunro

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.

wmcf123

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.

That’s pretty black and white .  Unless you’re under 10 and therefore probably not paying , you have seen some ok football in the past.  This along with the Foley/ Crofts era is as bad as it has ever been .  Nobody expects us to be prime Barcelona 

Redhenry

NabySarr said:

Redhenry said:

We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO

It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league 

Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off 

Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHO

Wheresmeticket

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

Agreed. I wouldn't pay 30 quid for that.

Chris_from_Sidcup

Redhenry said:

NabySarr said:

Redhenry said:

We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO

It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league 

Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off 

Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHO

It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.

Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.

th0rryy

I think that fans staying away from The Valley and a reduction of actual consistent attendance (as in, some kind of reality-based metric for tracking attendance through the turnstiles of season ticket holders, for example) will be, from the business-side of things, one of the non-footballing reasons that pressure will be applied to NJ. As so many have said before, success on the pitch goes symbiotically with revenue growth off it. This is the angle that may apply more strain on the tenure of NJ, as people simply won't want to turn up to see awful football AND poor results.

Although I absolutely agree that we need stability in our manager, I feel we have already reached a notable end point for what NJ can offer us and our fears of him being being the more recent incarnation of himself rather than the earlier one at Luton have come true. It's completely true that he came in last year and did perform a level of managerial magic to prevent what was looking, prior to Feb/Mar this year, a L1 relegation fight. However, you are only as good as your most recent results in the savage world of football management, and only extreme outliers of sustained success can counteract that. His recent press conferences are political answers to keep him in a job, and the fans are seeing right through it.

With a full pre-season and recruitment with his oversight, we've played overly negative football with the aim of grinding out every result, coin-flipping (almost) every game. In league fixtures, practically all of them have been tight affairs. Last season, I remember a Derby fan talking about their unstylish football on Charlton Live and how Louis had to remind him that they were still in the automatics. I could absolutely tolerate this NJ anti-football if it was getting us out of this sh*thole that is L1, but it's just not. At best, it's very rarely got us wins, and at worst, it's regularly lost us games and as good as written off our season before Xmas (if not arguably before).

Honestly, I feel the blame does lie with both NJ and Andy Scott for the hole we find ourselves in currently - I know people want to find blame with both Methven and Rodwell too, but I feel they are not as much at fault here for the more notably visible issues from the footballing side (unless you want to attribute them for the mess of NJ/AS in the first place, which was tricky to predict at the time). Recruitment over the summer has had us stagnate - we've been better defensively when AMitchell and LJones have been paired together, but gone significantly backwards in the attacking elements in selling May and not signing an attacking/creative midfielder or enough pace/crossing from wing backs and their cover. That falls on NJ and AS for incorrectly identifying and signing players, plus FULLY IGNORING the loan system. This is where my ire lies, because despite January being an option to use to recruit, your core identity of a style of play needs to be there before that - it simply isn't there and apart from a couple of signings, the summer recruitment was nowhere near good enough.

I'd sack NJ and remove AS as well. AS has failed consistently over time, and NJ, I fear, has lost the dressing room. I see no reason why things will improve as things stand. The only argument against that is that NJ has been through this situation last season and that we don't have a realistic replacement in mind. I have no idea why we would keep AS, given his consistency of bad signings. If this season is a write-off behind the scenes, then the planning should already be happening for next season without either of them. Honestly, I'd bite the bullet now and let a new manager have January and the remainder of the season to salvage something. Delaying that any longer feels pretty pointless.

I don't want any more anti-football. I don't want any more signings like the ones in the summer, from either NJ or AS. I want a manager on the up and not on the way down. I want a Charlton team to be actually front footed and be proactive and not reactive. I want my academy graduates to not regress to only be off the ball players.

Time for change.

MuttleyCAFC

The problem is, if we sacked Jones the SMT are not up to finding a replacement. I think it is prefereable that all or some of them are sacked first and the time it takes gives Jones a chance, by default, to turn things round. Which I doubt he will.

Callumcafc

ElfsborgAddick said:

Scoham said:

Oh Eddie Youds... said:

We’re playing the worst football the valley has ever seen, have only managed to beat bottom placed Burton (who had 10 men) in the last 8 league games & are on track to repeat our ‘lowest finish for 98 years’ record but the owners do not see any immediate concern??

I think Gavin Carter’s new role suggests they have concerns but expect they don’t want to keep sacking managers. We’d likely end up with an appointment part way through the transfer window which isn’t ideal.

Unless there is a dramatic turnaround in our fortunes very soon, I will be amazed if Methven, Rodwell and Scott are still at Charlton come the start of next season.

ElfsborgAddick

Callumcafc said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Scoham said:

Oh Eddie Youds... said:

We’re playing the worst football the valley has ever seen, have only managed to beat bottom placed Burton (who had 10 men) in the last 8 league games & are on track to repeat our ‘lowest finish for 98 years’ record but the owners do not see any immediate concern??

I think Gavin Carter’s new role suggests they have concerns but expect they don’t want to keep sacking managers. We’d likely end up with an appointment part way through the transfer window which isn’t ideal.

Unless there is a dramatic turnaround in our fortunes very soon, I will be amazed if Methven, Rodwell and Scott are still at Charlton come the start of next season.

At last, it looks like you're coming around to the fact we are in trouble.

Rob

th0rryy said:

I think that fans staying away from The Valley and a reduction of actual consistent attendance (as in, some kind of reality-based metric for tracking attendance through the turnstiles of season ticket holders, for example) will be, from the business-side of things, one of the non-footballing reasons that pressure will be applied to NJ. As so many have said before, success on the pitch goes symbiotically with revenue growth off it. This is the angle that may apply more strain on the tenure of NJ, as people simply won't want to turn up to see awful football AND poor results.

Although I absolutely agree that we need stability in our manager, I feel we have already reached a notable end point for what NJ can offer us and our fears of him being being the more recent incarnation of himself rather than the earlier one at Luton have come true. It's completely true that he came in last year and did perform a level of managerial magic to prevent what was looking, prior to Feb/Mar this year, a L1 relegation fight. However, you are only as good as your most recent results in the savage world of football management, and only extreme outliers of sustained success can counteract that. His recent press conferences are political answers to keep him in a job, and the fans are seeing right through it.

With a full pre-season and recruitment with his oversight, we've played overly negative football with the aim of grinding out every result, coin-flipping (almost) every game. In league fixtures, practically all of them have been tight affairs. Last season, I remember a Derby fan talking about their unstylish football on Charlton Live and how Louis had to remind him that they were still in the automatics. I could absolutely tolerate this NJ anti-football if it was getting us out of this sh*thole that is L1, but it's just not. At best, it's very rarely got us wins, and at worst, it's regularly lost us games and as good as written off our season before Xmas (if not arguably before).

Honestly, I feel the blame does lie with both NJ and Andy Scott for the hole we find ourselves in currently - I know people want to find blame with both Methven and Rodwell too, but I feel they are not as much at fault here for the more notably visible issues from the footballing side (unless you want to attribute them for the mess of NJ/AS in the first place, which was tricky to predict at the time). Recruitment over the summer has had us stagnate - we've been better defensively when AMitchell and LJones have been paired together, but gone significantly backwards in the attacking elements in selling May and not signing an attacking/creative midfielder or enough pace/crossing from wing backs and their cover. That falls on NJ and AS for incorrectly identifying and signing players, plus FULLY IGNORING the loan system. This is where my ire lies, because despite January being an option to use to recruit, your core identity of a style of play needs to be there before that - it simply isn't there and apart from a couple of signings, the summer recruitment was nowhere near good enough.

I'd sack NJ and remove AS as well. AS has failed consistently over time, and NJ, I fear, has lost the dressing room. I see no reason why things will improve as things stand. The only argument against that is that NJ has been through this situation last season and that we don't have a realistic replacement in mind. I have no idea why we would keep AS, given his consistency of bad signings. If this season is a write-off behind the scenes, then the planning should already be happening for next season without either of them. Honestly, I'd bite the bullet now and let a new manager have January and the remainder of the season to salvage something. Delaying that any longer feels pretty pointless.

I don't want any more anti-football. I don't want any more signings like the ones in the summer, from either NJ or AS. I want a manager on the up and not on the way down. I want a Charlton team to be actually front footed and be proactive and not reactive. I want my academy graduates to not regress to only be off the ball players.

Time for change.

You talk too much sense mate. By the way, in agreement 100%.

Braziliance

Excellent post @th0rryy

Just a shame there's too much sense in it for Charlton to apply it. 

Sillybilly

I just can’t get my head round why it seems that everyone but me thought getting Jones in was such a coup. He made an absolute arse of himself in his last two jobs including a couple of interviews on national TV where he was a laughing stock. Yet we seem to think he’s the Messiah. Sorry but I just didn’t and still don’t get it. 

bobmunro

Sillybilly said:

I just can’t get my head round why it seems that everyone but me thought getting Jones in was such a coup. He made an absolute arse of himself in his last two jobs including a couple of interviews on national TV where he was a laughing stock. Yet we seem to think he’s the Messiah. Sorry but I just didn’t and still don’t get it. 

Not everyone, Jim!

swordfish

Sillybilly said:

I just can’t get my head round why it seems that everyone but me thought getting Jones in was such a coup. He made an absolute arse of himself in his last two jobs including a couple of interviews on national TV where he was a laughing stock. Yet we seem to think he’s the Messiah. Sorry but I just didn’t and still don’t get it. 

Managed at a higher level. EFL Championship Manager of the Season 21/22 Previously managed Luton to promotion. Past Charlton connection. Not that hard to get your head around it surely, plus overwhelming feeling that anyone was better than Appleton. 

Rob

swordfish said:

Sillybilly said:

I just can’t get my head round why it seems that everyone but me thought getting Jones in was such a coup. He made an absolute arse of himself in his last two jobs including a couple of interviews on national TV where he was a laughing stock. Yet we seem to think he’s the Messiah. Sorry but I just didn’t and still don’t get it. 

Managed at a higher level. EFL Championship Manager of the Season 21/22 Previously managed Luton to promotion. Past Charlton connection. Not that hard to get your head around it surely, plus overwhelming feeling that anyone was better than Appleton. 

Agreed. That had me. We’re cursed I tell you! Haha. 

MuttleyCAFC

Sillybilly said:

I just can’t get my head round why it seems that everyone but me thought getting Jones in was such a coup. He made an absolute arse of himself in his last two jobs including a couple of interviews on national TV where he was a laughing stock. Yet we seem to think he’s the Messiah. Sorry but I just didn’t and still don’t get it. 

It wasn't just you. I was dubious at the time. He won me over last season to an extent though.

AFKABartram

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.

Sadly I feel like I’ve steadily lost those things over the last five years or so Bob. There doesn’t feel like there’s much identity left in the club nowadays. All stems from on pitch decline, but it’s really not the club it used to be imo. Saddens me to say it 

MrLargo

Sillybilly said:

I just can’t get my head round why it seems that everyone but me thought getting Jones in was such a coup. He made an absolute arse of himself in his last two jobs including a couple of interviews on national TV where he was a laughing stock. Yet we seem to think he’s the Messiah. Sorry but I just didn’t and still don’t get it. 

Everything you've said is correct. But look at what preceded him - Appleton is the guy you get in if you want to be looking for another manager in less than a year, Holden was a nice guy but no track record, hardly ambitious, Adkins hadn't been successful anywhere for a decade. Jones had been successful at our level in recent times, there was at least something to grasp onto in terms of optimism, and all of us are desperate for some hope to grasp onto. Turns out he's another one that's not up to it (not helped by terrible infrastructure behind him). Who's next? It will be luck rather than judgement if we stumble across someone who can get us out of this mess and out of this dismal division. Nobody with any pedigree will want to come. Jones needs to go, bit don't expect it to get any better until things change significantly behind the scenes.

Rob

It all seems to stem from when we went up with Bowyer and then came straight down again. Since then it feels like it has gone continuously down. Worst I’ve felt about the club. Almost can’t be bothered anymore.

bobmunro

AFKABartram said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.

Sadly I feel like I’ve steadily lost those things over the last five years or so Bob. There doesn’t feel like there’s much identity left in the club nowadays. All stems from on pitch decline, but it’s really not the club it used to be imo. Saddens me to say it 

I agree, it isn't the club it used to be, but it can be again. Either way - you, I, and all Addicks, will always support Charlton Athletic.

Weegie Addick

bobmunro said:

AFKABartram said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.

Sadly I feel like I’ve steadily lost those things over the last five years or so Bob. There doesn’t feel like there’s much identity left in the club nowadays. All stems from on pitch decline, but it’s really not the club it used to be imo. Saddens me to say it 

I agree, it isn't the club it used to be, but it can be again. Either way - you, I, and all Addicks, will always support Charlton Athletic.

Support, yes. Making the effort to turn up for games though might be another matter. And that’s when it gets very concerning. A lot of work needed to get the mojo - and the crowds - back. 

Southbank

ElfsborgAddick said:

The reason Jones didn’t get the Millwall job is he insisted on a clause in his contract that he could talk to PL clubs if they came in for him. He’s got the same clause with us.

The owners can’t afford to pay him off - there’s no money - he’s unsackable as things stand.

I was told the above from a mate who is a bit ITK with us.

Trust me, there is never such a thing as unsackiable, whatever the price. It is always a trade off between short term costs and long term costs. If they lose faith in Jones to keep us in League one they will fire him and bring someone in to keep us up, whatever the coast. Because a future in League 2 is so terrible financially they will bite the bullet.

bobmunro

Weegie Addick said:

bobmunro said:

AFKABartram said:

bobmunro said:

AndyG said:

Unless there is a big improvement in performances and results the writing is on the wall. People just won’t pay money to watch the dross being dished up ! Jones can try and bullshit all he likes but fans decide if they are getting value for money and so far this season they aren’t 

I would never use the term 'value for money' as it seems to indicate buying a product, and nobody with any sense would buy our product. Football supporters are blinded by the emotional attachment (for most of us lifelong) and all I want is pride in MY football club. I have that with CACT, The Upbeats and the general community feel, I just want it on the pitch too.

Sadly I feel like I’ve steadily lost those things over the last five years or so Bob. There doesn’t feel like there’s much identity left in the club nowadays. All stems from on pitch decline, but it’s really not the club it used to be imo. Saddens me to say it 

I agree, it isn't the club it used to be, but it can be again. Either way - you, I, and all Addicks, will always support Charlton Athletic.

Support, yes. Making the effort to turn up for games though might be another matter. And that’s when it gets very concerning. A lot of work needed to get the mojo - and the crowds - back. 

I agree - and you know only too well that my effort to get to games can be somewhat underwhelming!

Callumcafc

ElfsborgAddick said:

Callumcafc said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Scoham said:

Oh Eddie Youds... said:

We’re playing the worst football the valley has ever seen, have only managed to beat bottom placed Burton (who had 10 men) in the last 8 league games & are on track to repeat our ‘lowest finish for 98 years’ record but the owners do not see any immediate concern??

I think Gavin Carter’s new role suggests they have concerns but expect they don’t want to keep sacking managers. We’d likely end up with an appointment part way through the transfer window which isn’t ideal.

Unless there is a dramatic turnaround in our fortunes very soon, I will be amazed if Methven, Rodwell and Scott are still at Charlton come the start of next season.

At last, it looks like you're coming around to the fact we are in trouble.

If by trouble you mean treading water in League One, I know.

If by trouble you mean relegation, you’ve been saying that the last three years…

Chris_from_Sidcup

th0rryy said:

I think that fans staying away from The Valley and a reduction of actual consistent attendance (as in, some kind of reality-based metric for tracking attendance through the turnstiles of season ticket holders, for example) will be, from the business-side of things, one of the non-footballing reasons that pressure will be applied to NJ. As so many have said before, success on the pitch goes symbiotically with revenue growth off it. This is the angle that may apply more strain on the tenure of NJ, as people simply won't want to turn up to see awful football AND poor results.

Although I absolutely agree that we need stability in our manager, I feel we have already reached a notable end point for what NJ can offer us and our fears of him being being the more recent incarnation of himself rather than the earlier one at Luton have come true. It's completely true that he came in last year and did perform a level of managerial magic to prevent what was looking, prior to Feb/Mar this year, a L1 relegation fight. However, you are only as good as your most recent results in the savage world of football management, and only extreme outliers of sustained success can counteract that. His recent press conferences are political answers to keep him in a job, and the fans are seeing right through it.

With a full pre-season and recruitment with his oversight, we've played overly negative football with the aim of grinding out every result, coin-flipping (almost) every game. In league fixtures, practically all of them have been tight affairs. Last season, I remember a Derby fan talking about their unstylish football on Charlton Live and how Louis had to remind him that they were still in the automatics. I could absolutely tolerate this NJ anti-football if it was getting us out of this sh*thole that is L1, but it's just not. At best, it's very rarely got us wins, and at worst, it's regularly lost us games and as good as written off our season before Xmas (if not arguably before).

Honestly, I feel the blame does lie with both NJ and Andy Scott for the hole we find ourselves in currently - I know people want to find blame with both Methven and Rodwell too, but I feel they are not as much at fault here for the more notably visible issues from the footballing side (unless you want to attribute them for the mess of NJ/AS in the first place, which was tricky to predict at the time). Recruitment over the summer has had us stagnate - we've been better defensively when AMitchell and LJones have been paired together, but gone significantly backwards in the attacking elements in selling May and not signing an attacking/creative midfielder or enough pace/crossing from wing backs and their cover. That falls on NJ and AS for incorrectly identifying and signing players, plus FULLY IGNORING the loan system. This is where my ire lies, because despite January being an option to use to recruit, your core identity of a style of play needs to be there before that - it simply isn't there and apart from a couple of signings, the summer recruitment was nowhere near good enough.

I'd sack NJ and remove AS as well. AS has failed consistently over time, and NJ, I fear, has lost the dressing room. I see no reason why things will improve as things stand. The only argument against that is that NJ has been through this situation last season and that we don't have a realistic replacement in mind. I have no idea why we would keep AS, given his consistency of bad signings. If this season is a write-off behind the scenes, then the planning should already be happening for next season without either of them. Honestly, I'd bite the bullet now and let a new manager have January and the remainder of the season to salvage something. Delaying that any longer feels pretty pointless.

I don't want any more anti-football. I don't want any more signings like the ones in the summer, from either NJ or AS. I want a manager on the up and not on the way down. I want a Charlton team to be actually front footed and be proactive and not reactive. I want my academy graduates to not regress to only be off the ball players.

Time for change.

Excellent post. It needs to be printed off and sent to our owners!

StrikerFirmani

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

th0rryy said:

I think that fans staying away from The Valley and a reduction of actual consistent attendance (as in, some kind of reality-based metric for tracking attendance through the turnstiles of season ticket holders, for example) will be, from the business-side of things, one of the non-footballing reasons that pressure will be applied to NJ. As so many have said before, success on the pitch goes symbiotically with revenue growth off it. This is the angle that may apply more strain on the tenure of NJ, as people simply won't want to turn up to see awful football AND poor results.

Although I absolutely agree that we need stability in our manager, I feel we have already reached a notable end point for what NJ can offer us and our fears of him being being the more recent incarnation of himself rather than the earlier one at Luton have come true. It's completely true that he came in last year and did perform a level of managerial magic to prevent what was looking, prior to Feb/Mar this year, a L1 relegation fight. However, you are only as good as your most recent results in the savage world of football management, and only extreme outliers of sustained success can counteract that. His recent press conferences are political answers to keep him in a job, and the fans are seeing right through it.

With a full pre-season and recruitment with his oversight, we've played overly negative football with the aim of grinding out every result, coin-flipping (almost) every game. In league fixtures, practically all of them have been tight affairs. Last season, I remember a Derby fan talking about their unstylish football on Charlton Live and how Louis had to remind him that they were still in the automatics. I could absolutely tolerate this NJ anti-football if it was getting us out of this sh*thole that is L1, but it's just not. At best, it's very rarely got us wins, and at worst, it's regularly lost us games and as good as written off our season before Xmas (if not arguably before).

Honestly, I feel the blame does lie with both NJ and Andy Scott for the hole we find ourselves in currently - I know people want to find blame with both Methven and Rodwell too, but I feel they are not as much at fault here for the more notably visible issues from the footballing side (unless you want to attribute them for the mess of NJ/AS in the first place, which was tricky to predict at the time). Recruitment over the summer has had us stagnate - we've been better defensively when AMitchell and LJones have been paired together, but gone significantly backwards in the attacking elements in selling May and not signing an attacking/creative midfielder or enough pace/crossing from wing backs and their cover. That falls on NJ and AS for incorrectly identifying and signing players, plus FULLY IGNORING the loan system. This is where my ire lies, because despite January being an option to use to recruit, your core identity of a style of play needs to be there before that - it simply isn't there and apart from a couple of signings, the summer recruitment was nowhere near good enough.

I'd sack NJ and remove AS as well. AS has failed consistently over time, and NJ, I fear, has lost the dressing room. I see no reason why things will improve as things stand. The only argument against that is that NJ has been through this situation last season and that we don't have a realistic replacement in mind. I have no idea why we would keep AS, given his consistency of bad signings. If this season is a write-off behind the scenes, then the planning should already be happening for next season without either of them. Honestly, I'd bite the bullet now and let a new manager have January and the remainder of the season to salvage something. Delaying that any longer feels pretty pointless.

I don't want any more anti-football. I don't want any more signings like the ones in the summer, from either NJ or AS. I want a manager on the up and not on the way down. I want a Charlton team to be actually front footed and be proactive and not reactive. I want my academy graduates to not regress to only be off the ball players.

Time for change.

Excellent post. It needs to be printed off and sent to our owners!

Even though it is factually incorrect?

Senior players have come out in defence or agreement with Jones recently.  Secondly you honestly think we would have got 2 clean sheets if the dressing room was lost.

Lost the fans I would agree with but not the dressing room, as yet anyway. 

Redhenry

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Redhenry said:

NabySarr said:

Redhenry said:

We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO

It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league 

Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off 

Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHO

It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.

Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.

And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...

Scoham

Redhenry said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Redhenry said:

NabySarr said:

Redhenry said:

We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO

It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league 

Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off 

Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHO

It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.

Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.

And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...

Agree we could spend more as other clubs have and recruitment won’t be the only issue, but we still spent over £10m on wages in 22/23 (presumably includes non-playing staff too, players will make up the bulk of it), and that dropped 8% from the previous year.

Maybe we’re spending less now, but I doubt we’re getting value for money and are likely still spending more than a lot of L1 clubs. We know most clubs don’t pay transfer fees at this level.

Methven claimed we have the 4/5th highest budget, that’ll be based on the figures clubs have to share with the EFL. Even if he’s exaggerating we’re still underperforming for the money we spent.

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/charlton-athletic-report-9-6m-operating-loss-in-2022-23-with-global-football-partners-putting-in-8-9m/

Charlton Athletic made an operating loss of £9.6million in 2022-23 – equating to around £190,000 a week.

The Addicks’ revenue over that period, up until the end of June, stayed at the same figure as the previous accounts – £9.8m – while wages dropped eight per cent to £10.3m.

carly burn

Scoham said:

Redhenry said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Redhenry said:

NabySarr said:

Redhenry said:

We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO

It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league 

Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off 

Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHO

It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.

Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.

And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...

Agree we could spend more as other clubs have and recruitment won’t be the only issue, but we still spent over £10m on wages in 22/23 (presumably includes non-playing staff too, players will make up the bulk of it), and that dropped 8% from the previous year.

Maybe we’re spending less now, but I doubt we’re getting value for money and are likely still spending more than a lot of L1 clubs. We know most clubs don’t pay transfer fees at this level.

Methven claimed we have the 4/5th highest budget, that’ll be based on the figures clubs have to share with the EFL. Even if he’s exaggerating we’re still underperforming for the money we spent.

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/charlton-athletic-report-9-6m-operating-loss-in-2022-23-with-global-football-partners-putting-in-8-9m/

Charlton Athletic made an operating loss of £9.6million in 2022-23 – equating to around £190,000 a week.

The Addicks’ revenue over that period, up until the end of June, stayed at the same figure as the previous accounts – £9.8m – while wages dropped eight per cent to £10.3m.

Scoham said:

Redhenry said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Redhenry said:

NabySarr said:

Redhenry said:

We haven't had good enough players or Managers for a while now. It's mostly down to money IMHO

It’s due to poor spending of money. Our budget hasn’t really been a problem other than in 2022/23 when Sandgaard had given up. I suspect that would have been our lowest budget of recent times and we actually finished higher up the league 

Poor recruitment is our problem, until that changes we are just going to keep cycling through managers that get an initial performance bounce but then trail off 

Not sure poor recruitment is the entire problem. It's more to do with the level of player we can afford IMHO

It is definitely poor recruitment. We can afford to pay transfer fees, a lot of clubs in this division don't, we pay decent wages, a lot of clubs in this division pay a lot less, and yet here we are sat in 14th battling for the right to finish top of the bottom half with Mansfield, Stevenage and Exeter.

Reading don't have a pot to piss in, can't buy anyone and their owner has given up on them and they are still above us.

And how do u know we pay transfer fees and decent wages, u seem to state that as a fact? I never said recruitment wasn't a problem just not the entire problem...

Agree we could spend more as other clubs have and recruitment won’t be the only issue, but we still spent over £10m on wages in 22/23 (presumably includes non-playing staff too, players will make up the bulk of it), and that dropped 8% from the previous year.

Maybe we’re spending less now, but I doubt we’re getting value for money and are likely still spending more than a lot of L1 clubs. We know most clubs don’t pay transfer fees at this level.

Methven claimed we have the 4/5th highest budget, that’ll be based on the figures clubs have to share with the EFL. Even if he’s exaggerating we’re still underperforming for the money we spent.

https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/sport/charlton-athletic-report-9-6m-operating-loss-in-2022-23-with-global-football-partners-putting-in-8-9m/

Charlton Athletic made an operating loss of £9.6million in 2022-23 – equating to around £190,000 a week.

The Addicks’ revenue over that period, up until the end of June, stayed at the same figure as the previous accounts – £9.8m – while wages dropped eight per cent to £10.3m.

 I don't believe the majority of stuff that comes out of Methvens mouth.