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Alex Mitchell - gone on a season long loan to Plymouth Argyle (p11)
Comments
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Covered End said:
I think Jones wanted a left footed defender on the bench ie Potts.MillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)
Fair enoughfenaddick said:
Think that was more about Potts than Mitchell, left footed, well known to NJ and could fill in at LB for half an hour if neededMillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)1 -
I think it's exactly as Jones said. It was a tactical decision that didn't work out. If he wanted to pass off a fall out as something else he would have said Mitchell had picked up a slight injury and wasn't worth risking. As it was he told the truth and owned it knowing he would get criticism for messing with the most successful unit of the team. Mitchell will be back in the team this weekend. If not then something is amiss.16
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But what if Jones or REG had been injured? Mitchell covers right centre back and the middle one; Potts covers Gillesphey and the unlikely event of switching to a back 4, which admittedly happened on Saturday, but hasn't occurred often. Still doesn't wash to me.MillwallFan said:Covered End said:
I think Jones wanted a left footed defender on the bench ie Potts.MillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)
Fair enoughfenaddick said:
Think that was more about Potts than Mitchell, left footed, well known to NJ and could fill in at LB for half an hour if neededMillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)3 -
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error9 -
I mean one other factor that has been overlooked this week, is we've dropped T.Campbell for another Striker in two games this season.fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error
Godden came in against Rotherham and we drew 1-1
Kanu came in on Saturday and we lost 1-2
Jones resting / dropping Mitchell (whatever you want to call it), isnt the first time he's rotated.
Its just the first time, people have wanted to notice.
He's also done it plenty with the Midfield as well; Coventry and Docherty have been mainstays, but the other midfield slot has swapped between Berry / Anderson / A.Campbell - Going off results alone, it looks like Berry is the best option to go with.2 -
A defenders job is to defend. We're not Man City. A bloody ridiculous decision, which ever way you look at it!!fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error7 -
IF Potts is so good, I'd prefer we had Potts on the bench until one of the other CB's loses form. I liked REG last season, but Saturday's game showed we have upgraded across the back and I don't see him as a starter.fenaddick said:
Think that was more about Potts than Mitchell, left footed, well known to NJ and could fill in at LB for half an hour if neededMillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)
People are questioning if there's more to it, if there is I'd bet it's simply that REG has been training well, maybe better than Mitchell lately and was demanding to show what he can do... Which failed miserably.3 -
I really respected his honesty there. Bow would have blamed the players, Adkins would have said we did great, All the managers between since Powell or Parky would have come out with some BS response.sirjohnhumphrey said:I think it's exactly as Jones said. It was a tactical decision that didn't work out. If he wanted to pass off a fall out as something else he would have said Mitchell had picked up a slight injury and wasn't worth risking. As it was he told the truth and owned it knowing he would get criticism for messing with the most successful unit of the team. Mitchell will be back in the team this weekend. If not then something is amiss.9 -
This isn't aimed at you @Melrose but you've hit on something I find interesting!Melrose said:
A defenders job is to defend. We're not Man City. A bloody ridiculous decision, which ever way you look at it!!fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error
Basically since the first match of the season (and before in some cases) people have been saying that the style of football is ugly, we should play less hoofball etc. That starts from your GK & CB's otherwise you have to play long ball football. NJ makes a change to try to fix that problem he has identified too and it backfires so all of a sudden he's made a catastrophic error or he's fallen out with Mitchell. He tried something and it didn't work, it's annoying but that's ok! He is a human being after all.6 - Sponsored links:
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To be fair that's precisely what he did... Along with Z.Mitchell (I hate the fact we have so many players with the same bloody Surname!!) and Taylor, he was one of our best players to have performed against Cambridge.Dazzler21 said:
IF Potts is so good, I'd prefer we had Potts on the bench until one of the other CB's loses form. I liked REG last season, but Saturday's game showed we have upgraded across the back and I don't see him as a starter.fenaddick said:
Think that was more about Potts than Mitchell, left footed, well known to NJ and could fill in at LB for half an hour if neededMillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)
People are questioning if there's more to it, if there is I'd bet it's simply that REG has been training well, maybe better than Mitchell lately and was demanding to show what he can do... Which failed miserably.
Jones saw that we played better from Defence than what we have done, whilst our Midfield has been solid regardless this season, so why not see if it would work in the League as well - Like you say REG will have been wanting an opportunity, and will no doubt have been told by Jones: "Keep working hard, and you will".
How do you keep trust with your players, when they do work hard (e.g. Cambridge), and still don't get the opportunity? - Because it'll get to the point in the season, where we may need REG - Last thing we want is to call upon half hearted individuals, because our Manager only cares about eleven of them
The argument is why didnt Taylor get an opportunity as well from the bench then, especially over Anderson - But I still feel the Midfield is more complicated as people like A.Campbell / Anderson can occupy multiple roles in there, whilst Taylor can only really compete with Coventry.7 -
ForeverAddickted said:
I mean one other factor that has been overlooked this week, is we've dropped T.Campbell for another Striker in two games this season.fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error
Godden came in against Rotherham and we drew 1-1
Kanu came in on Saturday and we lost 1-2
Jones resting / dropping Mitchell (whatever you want to call it), isnt the first time he's rotated.
Its just the first time, people have wanted to notice.
He's also done it plenty with the Midfield as well; Coventry and Docherty have been mainstays, but the other midfield slot has swapped between Berry / Anderson / A.Campbell - Going off results alone, it looks like Berry is the best option to go with.
I think this is a little unfair. The rotating up-top didn't surprise me that much. We haven't exactly been prolific in front of goal and I don't think we know what our best partnership upfront is. Whereas our settled backline has been our main strength so it seems a stranger change to me.
But I guess we tried something new, it didn't pay off. I suppose it happens.3 -
He's not rotated people that have been playing well though, bar in the cup games. None of the three mentioned midfielders have been that impressive, nor have any of the strikers. Calling REG a ball playing centre back is a little far fetched anyway.ForeverAddickted said:
I mean one other factor that has been overlooked this week, is we've dropped T.Campbell for another Striker in two games this season.fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error
Godden came in against Rotherham and we drew 1-1
Kanu came in on Saturday and we lost 1-2
Jones resting / dropping Mitchell (whatever you want to call it), isnt the first time he's rotated.
Its just the first time, people have wanted to notice.
He's also done it plenty with the Midfield as well; Coventry and Docherty have been mainstays, but the other midfield slot has swapped between Berry / Anderson / A.Campbell - Going off results alone, it looks like Berry is the best option to go with.0 -
Yep.fenaddick said:
This isn't aimed at you @Melrose but you've hit on something I find interesting!Melrose said:
A defenders job is to defend. We're not Man City. A bloody ridiculous decision, which ever way you look at it!!fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error
Basically since the first match of the season (and before in some cases) people have been saying that the style of football is ugly, we should play less hoofball etc. That starts from your GK & CB's otherwise you have to play long ball football. NJ makes a change to try to fix that problem he has identified too and it backfires so all of a sudden he's made a catastrophic error or he's fallen out with Mitchell. He tried something and it didn't work, it's annoying but that's ok! He is a human being after all.Jones knows we have a good thing going at the back, he also knows some minor tweaks are needed in possession to help things click going forward.
We have a really solid foundation and he’s tinkering to find out if we’re capable of being even better - first he tried Anderson in midfield, then Berry and last weekend Campbell. He’s also tried swapping partners for Gassan between TC, Godden and now Kanu. The only piece he hadn’t touched yet was the back three. He had the guts to try it and it didn’t work so I suspect he’ll try tinkering somewhere else next weekend.
There is no point trying to scrap the whole formation and try playing a different way when we’re winning over half our games so far. That approach feels a bit too “baby with the bath water” in my opinion.7 -
Jones does get some credit for trying to make a change and also for accepting his own part when it didn't work.DartfordAddick said:ForeverAddickted said:
I mean one other factor that has been overlooked this week, is we've dropped T.Campbell for another Striker in two games this season.fenaddick said:
Of course you do, if you want to play it on the ground more and your ball playing CB had played well midweek. It didn't work clearly and I expect we'll see Mitchell again at the weekend. Managers change winning teams all the time, we just haven't had a winning team often enough to notice recentlywmcf123 said:
You don’t mess around with the one good bit of the team unless there’s something amiss .fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error
Godden came in against Rotherham and we drew 1-1
Kanu came in on Saturday and we lost 1-2
Jones resting / dropping Mitchell (whatever you want to call it), isnt the first time he's rotated.
Its just the first time, people have wanted to notice.
He's also done it plenty with the Midfield as well; Coventry and Docherty have been mainstays, but the other midfield slot has swapped between Berry / Anderson / A.Campbell - Going off results alone, it looks like Berry is the best option to go with.
I think this is a little unfair. The rotating up-top didn't surprise me that much. We haven't exactly been prolific in front of goal and I don't think we know what our best partnership upfront is. Whereas our settled backline has been our main strength so it seems a stranger change to me.
But I guess we tried something new, it didn't pay off. I suppose it happens.
On the other hand it does suggest that there was something that needed to be fixed, and also that Saturday's experiment was not the solution so for me he still needs to actually solve that initial issue rather than just reverting back to the original and hoping it's good enough.
For the record I'm still pro Jones and think he's done much more right than wrong but I don't think even he would see this current iteration as the "finished product" so hopefully the general upward trend (albeit slowly so) continues.
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Is there any Charlton supporter who doesn't thinks Alex Mitchell and Jones are our best two centre halves?
Of course not. Rubbish decision from Jones. End of debate.8 -
Then you shuffle everyone across one if you have to. Jones to the right, Gillesphey to the middle, Potts on the left. Not ideal but better than having too many defenders on the bench. In the end while we were chasing the game we brought on every single sub except Potts and the keeper to try and make a difference. Two centre mids and three attackers to give us options and we used every one in search of a result. If we'd brought another centre back on the bench instead we would have just ended up making one less sub. It makes perfect sense.wmcf123 said:
But what if Jones or REG had been injured? Mitchell covers right centre back and the middle one; Potts covers Gillesphey and the unlikely event of switching to a back 4, which admittedly happened on Saturday, but hasn't occurred often. Still doesn't wash to me.MillwallFan said:Covered End said:
I think Jones wanted a left footed defender on the bench ie Potts.MillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)
Fair enoughfenaddick said:
Think that was more about Potts than Mitchell, left footed, well known to NJ and could fill in at LB for half an hour if neededMillwallFan said:
But to not even be on the bench? After starting the season so well? Seems strange.fenaddick said:Amazing that people are immediately jumping to the idea there's an interpersonal problem when the reality is NJ probably just made a selection error(Sorry to jump in here but take an interest in this thread with Mitchell being ex Millwall)
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One or 2 posters have highlighted it - it's obvious really:
At Cambridge REG had a very good game and added an extra dimension to our play out of defence, which together with Taylor's impressive contribution, made the platform for a much more creative and attractive team performance.
In that post match interview, NJ made it clear how happy he was with the team performance and praised REG's play..
He evidently thought he'd stumbled on a way to add an extra dimension to the team performance in the next game.
Best laid plans of mice and men, and all that ....... and he was honest and humble enough to admit his tinkering hadn't worked.
He'll go back to his trusted formula next match.
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And yet Taylor didn't get a look in v Blackpool.Oggy Red said:One or 2 posters have highlighted it - it's obvious really:
At Cambridge REG had a very good game and added an extra dimension to our play out of defence, which together with Taylor's impressive contribution, made the platform for a much more creative and attractive team performance.
In that post match interview, NJ made it clear how happy he was with the team performance and praised REG's play..
He evidently thought he'd stumbled on a way to add an extra dimension to the team performance in the next game.
Best laid plans of mice and men, and all that ....... and he was honest and humble enough to admit his tinkering hadn't worked.
He'll go back to his trusted formula next match.1 -
Well yeah but even Jones himself has said so. He tried it but it was a mistake and he's admitted it. Not really much more he can do except take it forward and not try it again.bolloxbolder said:Is there any Charlton supporter who doesn't thinks Alex Mitchell and Jones are our best two centre halves?
Of course not. Rubbish decision from Jones. End of debate.0 - Sponsored links:
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I don’t think the reasoning behind the change was wrong.
In a back 3 at least one of that three should be able to progress the ball into midfield. That will cause the overload.
However, Mitchell is not the player who should have been dropped, surely Potts should have played at LCB to progress the ball.1 -
If he wants us to stop playing hoof ball then the answer is to remove Gillesphey, because that is all he looks to do.4
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Not much point passing to the midfield though. All they do is knock it back to a defender or the goalie!3
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If you've got the players, yes.L0rd_M0ntagu3 said:I don’t think the reasoning behind the change was wrong.
In a back 3 at least one of that three should be able to progress the ball into midfield. That will cause the overload.
However, Mitchell is not the player who should have been dropped, surely Potts should have played at LCB to progress the ball.0 -
superclive98 said:If he wants us to stop playing hoof ball then the answer is to remove Gillesphey, because that is all he looks to do.
That is surely on instruction though. The Plymouth fans all mainly raved about his wand of a left foot. I don't for one minute think they were talking about constant long punts to a target man upfront.0 -
fixed it for yousuperclive98 said:If he wants us to stop playing hoof ball then the answer is to remove Gillesphey, because even that is outside his skill set is all he looks to do.0 -
L0rd_M0ntagu3 said:I don’t think the reasoning behind the change was wrong.
In a back 3 at least one of that three should be able to progress the ball into midfield. That will cause the overload.
Jones looks like our most able ball player, if progressive play from CH's is what's required
However, Mitchell is not the player who should have been dropped, surely Potts should have played at LCB to progress the ball.
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made me laugh when he said our set piece delivery was “not bad”, I know he didn’t want to dig out a teammate but better to just not mention the delivery!clive said:0 -
'I’ve had it at previous clubs where you're not doing well and lads will maybe start to get a bit toxic and throw their toys out the pram, but here it's been really good. I think that's down to the management team and everyone around the building helping to keep everyone going in one direction'That's what you want to hear, especially from one of the players who could have felt let down when Jones dropped him. I do think we've signed the kind of players who are unlikely to stop playing just because the manager hasn't been super nice to them that day. There's tactical issues but hopefully that's something that we can work on8
