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MATCH THREAD (+POSTp22): Gillingham vs Charlton Athletic: FA Cup🏆(2): Sat 2nd Dec 2023 | KO 3.00PM

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    supaclivesupaclive
    Callumcafc said:
    supaclive said:
    Callumcafc said:
    supaclive said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    supaclive said:
    AFKABartram said:
    Callumcafc said:
    Braziliance said:
    Callumcafc said:
    The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

    3 losses in 17…

    9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.
    The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

    He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

    Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

    We can talk about wins if you want to.

    8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

    5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



    Putting it all together:

    Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

    Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses
    It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

    I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

    But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

    My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 
    Appleton is a mediocre manager 
    We have mediocre players 
    MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
    We are struggling to tread water.
    The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
    The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

    Playing May central
    Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

    #mental
    It's not though. Remember the last time May played as the central striker? Bolton, where we lost 2-0 and he barely got a sniff. In fact, if you look at May's last 10 games, the only two where he played as a centre forward he didn't score. Playing as a 10 or on the right though he scored 10 in 8. I don't love him out on the right but he's better there than as a central striker on his own. I liked him as a 10 and it's a bit frustrating that Appleton has switched to a 3 made up of midfielders who don't seem to be able to play together but having May as a 10 did tend to leave us a bit exposed as well.
    The big problem is a lack of balance. We signed players for a 352 and signed a striker who plays best with a player alongside him. Either we stick two strikers up, but then don't have the balance to play a four behind them and will leave our terrible defence even more exposed, we stick May at 10 and leave ourselves a bit too shallow in the middle or we stick him on the right and ask him to drift in whenever he can and have the third midfielder provide a bit of width as he does it. None of it's ideal but the solution isn't just May central up front as he just gets eaten up by the opposition defenders and we suffer even more.
    May is a centre forward 
    The best centre forward in the division
    3 years running
    The rest is conjecture 
    Is 2 goals from 6 games playing as a striker this season vs 10 goals from 10 games playing wide/no. 10 also conjecture?


    He was a very good centre forward at this level for two seasons at Cheltenham where teams left space in behind for May to run into and convert chances from. Alfie doesn’t get that same luxury playing for Charlton.

    Instead, Appleton has given May a role that provides him with more touches of the ball and he can better influence how the team plays as a whole. As a bonus, May is in some of the best scoring form of his life.


    Football on paper is a simple game, you play your scoring striker at the top of the pitch because he’s closer to the goal that way.

    Reality is telling us that Alfie is actually getting more joy from playing deeper and can work in the pockets of space in front of a defence. He’s a very good player and he’s proving it by how he’s adapted his game to be more productive than ever when faced with new challenges.
    It imbalances the rest of the team and we can't play him in a midfield 3 as the AM.

    Two seasons versus 6 games is a little more of a fair amount of games in a settled side.

    You can say what you want @Callumcafc but I doubt many managers in this division would play Alfie May anywhere but number 9.

    Sorry.


    I just don’t understand it.

    May’s been scoring a hatful and you see that that is the problem with our team? I’m baffled.

    I don’t buy that it imbalances the team. We’ve done well in plenty of games with him there. It didn’t work out today. But that’s football.
    You don't buy it.  That's ok.
    I simply think May, CBT, Leaburn is our best 3
    Now Leaburn isn't there play Tyreece wide

    Dobson
    Watson
    Anderson

    Midfield 3

    Watson 
    Jones
    Hector
    Edun

    Back 4

    Need a better centre half than Hector 

    That's my side.
    Is the side Apples picking better?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

    But, I still say May will, over 46 goals, score more central.

    No goals on Tuesday night were because he played wide.

    Cray Valley? ... he could play anywhere....

    Just my opinion and until Charlton make the top 6 with May wide and scoring 30 goals I won't change my mind.   I hear you.  I do.  But I think you are making things more difficult than they are.

    May is bloody good.  That's the reason he's scoring.  Having "the cavalry" arrive is more the reason for his goals, not his position.

    If Appleton had a history of being a visionary tactician, I might believe it more.   But I don't. 

    However, Appleton has still been dealt a shit hand by the senior management and they need to allow him to choose his transfer targets.

    Rinse and repeat. 

    The current side is mide table League 1.  And there we sadly look like staying. 

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    thickandthin63thickandthin63
    I havent seen any of the game,but the comments on here are pretty damning.What really gets me is they had 3 players who were not considered good enough for us.Now you and me in that position would say,I will show these bastards they were wrong.We just were not prepared for this,Bonne scored,Williams done his bit and Lapslie was all over the place,in our face and winning everything.I can accept losing,but being out fought in a cup tie against a team half hours drive away is just not on.
    I am a Medway resident(not the only one on here)and must now for the foreseeable future only go out in the dark,and have the piss taken when I am seen in public,just about had enough of this laughing stock of a club,70 years of support rapidly coming to an end.
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    EveshamAddickEveshamAddick
    Braziliance said:
    blackpool72 said:
    One thing I have noticed is that Appleton does not seem to know how to motivate players. 
    Yesterday was a prime example. 
    Some of our players seem to be just not giving enough effort. 
    I can except watching us lose if the players are giving 100 % because you can't give any more than that.
    But how many players Yesterday can honestly look themselves in the mirror and say they gave their all.
    Whether that's down to Appleton or the players I'm not really sure but some of our recent performances are simply not acceptable. 
    This is exactly my concern. I have seen the argument that his style isn't to motivate from the touchline, well if that isn't his style, what exactly is it? As he's hardly renowned to be a footballing genius tactically. All well and good saying he's not that type of manager, but fans respond with the nature of the manager as well. 

    Top of my head Ben Garner Ipswich, he was imo, the catalyst to the Ipswich come back. He riled up the crowd (in a good way) and him getting sent off and reacting the way he did actually showed he was bothered. Which in return got the crowd reacting. Appleton being so non-chalant and then just saying players are crap basically, is hardly good game management. 

    I don't know where everyone sat, but I was on the far right of the stand facing pitch side and I can assure you, it was like a funeral. No atmosphere, no one seemed like they wanted to be there. It's up to the players and manager to change that. Fans do their part by paying and travelling, it's up to the players to show their desire after that. Instead a skilless, gutless display was shown and our fans were embarrassed yet again.

    Really not sold on the bloke, I'll admit he came in and stopped us from a bit of freefall, as I do think Dean Holden would have had us in a relegation scrap, but like a lot of these players, I am not sure if he's the man to take us forwards. 

    Woke up extremely f*cked off today. If they draw a big prem team away, it will just rub the salt in.
    The Gills will probably get Millwall…
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    guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    Gave it a miss yesterday, spent the day in the Dean’s Swift, the raven, the two bridges, the horseshoe & the rose, think I made the right decision.
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    WellredWellred
    Had a bad feeling before I left yesterday but I was thinking it was going to be a draw 
    After 2 poor performances we needed to get our game back up to scratch but we didn't 
    I thought we looked like we lost that fight we gained that put a decent game into us 
    They looked more up for it &  definitely deserved their win 
    Gutted not so much about getting beat but our performance hopefully this might be the kick up the arse we need to get our game back up to where it was & where it needs to be 


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    RedChaserRedChaser
    guinnessaddick said:
    Gave it a miss yesterday, spent the day in the Dean’s Swift, the raven, the two bridges, the horseshoe & the rose, think I made the right decision.
    How’s the head ?🤪.
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    guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    edited December 2023
    RedChaser said:
    guinnessaddick said:
    Gave it a miss yesterday, spent the day in the Dean’s Swift, the raven, the two bridges, the horseshoe & the rose, think I made the right decision.
    How’s the head ?🤪.
    Clearing it now with a 5 mile walk.
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    redbuttleredbuttle
    Melrose said:
    redbuttle said:
    Melrose said:
    roseandcrown said:
    Awful no bottle or heart. 

    Appleton knows a lot of these are not good enough.  I just hope he can get them out and replace with players he wants. 
    Appleton needs replacing as well
    He inherited this bunch of bottle jobs. How do you think he feels? . I actually think we know now after hearing his post match interview 

    He has no idea of a compact competitive formation. He keeps playing May out wide on the right. He continues to play Tedic. He's another Adkins type, had some success in the past, but we'll past his sell by date. In his defence Scott's acquisitions have been appalling
    So what should the club do ? Sack another manager and start again. Let's see what happens in January. 
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    BaileyBailey
    edited December 2023
    LargeAddick said:
    Bailey said:
    JamesSeed said:
    golfaddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Gillingham clearly wanted it more than us. Fought for every ball. Not too down. What we need to do is stay in range and then replace some of the weak players we have in January (I don'y just mean physically but mentally too). Also some young players needs loan. Ness is so mistake ridden it cannot be ignored.
    Problem is I don't trust Scott to replace them with anyone better and for Appleton to then get them playing as a team. 
    Christ, we’re not going to start calling for yet another manager sacking are we?? Is that what people want?
    JamesSeed said:
    golfaddick said:
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    Gillingham clearly wanted it more than us. Fought for every ball. Not too down. What we need to do is stay in range and then replace some of the weak players we have in January (I don'y just mean physically but mentally too). Also some young players needs loan. Ness is so mistake ridden it cannot be ignored.
    Problem is I don't trust Scott to replace them with anyone better and for Appleton to then get them playing as a team. 
    Christ, we’re not going to start calling for yet another manager sacking are we?? Is that what people want?
    A rhetorical question James as that's exactly what they are calling for. Three defeats in seventeen games doesn't matter to these knuckle draggers. They specialise in the negative and in Charlton Athletic the easiest thing to be is negative. It's the same old names, and the same old rhetoric, boring, tired rants.  
    Where has anyone in the comments above called for another manager sacking? They haven’t. But you go ahead and twist people’s words to suit your own rhetoric and defence of another shit show of a performance.
    Err DDOUBLEE for a start. Large look through the posts. There are four targets generally used by these posters, Kirk, McGrandles, Appleton and the owners. I don't have a problem criticising any of them but apart from Kirk, it never is based on facts. Facts are, Appleton has improved performances and results, doing so without Camara, Isted, Chuks and Taylor, it isn't his squad and he and everyone else knows it needs improving. The owners and the January window, nobody knows whether they will fund the squad in January but there are people on here already stating nothing will be done and there will only be departures, they were having Miles as a certainty to leave, they must be desperate now his serious injury has put paid to any move in January. Lastly, McGrandles, a player booed on to the pitch and slaughtered on here when he has hardly played any games for the club and has been successful at most other clubs he has appeared for but they are certain 'he's shit' an opinion based on what? Tedic is getting close the amount of appearances made by McGrandles and yet he's not a target. As I say, it's easy to criticise Charlton, its almost self deprecating by these posters, 'I told you they were shit' therefore I am and always were better than you, apart from the facts tell a different story. 
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    MarcusH26MarcusH26
    It was mentioned by Oxford and Lincoln fans that Appleton isn't one for doing a lot on the touchline and doesn't really build relationships with the fans either unlike say Bows. And there was quite a bit of " don't expect him to move away from 433 regardless of if you've got the personnel to play other formations" 

    Just feels like another midtable nothingness season awaits , I only really expect loan swaps in effect in January, don't think the Miles injury will really change the thinking from Scott and the board about getting a quality partner for May. 
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    LouisMendLouisMend


    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/four-takeaways-from-charltons-fa-cup-exit-at-gillingham-addicks-limp-out-at-second-round-stage-following-concerning-display/
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    MelroseMelrose
    I'd rather play with 10, than play Tedic. Absolutely nothing about him. Stealing a living in football
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    LouisMendLouisMend


    https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/michael-appleton-miles-leaburn-injury-prioritises-need-for-striker-signing-in-january/
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    MelroseMelrose
    Redmidland said:
    Yesterday was awful, no fight, no passion and no clue. However getting rid of MA is not, in my opinion, the right thing to do.
    There has been a lack of stability in this club for years now, and to keep changing managers isn't going to help.
    We need stability and allow a manager more than a few months to build their squad and ideas!
    Let's face it the turnover of managers hasn't worked!
    So I'm saying let's stick by MA, let's hope and pray Charlie boy and Scott, go and get the players he wants, let him build his squad and his style of play. If it fails in the medium term then move him on, but he needs to be given 2 transfer windows. 
    I agree ro a certain extent, but do we trust his judgement to request the right players to go after. As someone else said, he's no great tactician, he's no great motivator. I'm afraid he is another " some success in the past" manager. Stephen Clemmence anybody? :)
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    jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    RoanRedNY said:
    jimmymelrose said:
    Valley11 said:
    The expectations of this club have fallen off a cliff. Too many going through the motions. We won’t achieve anything while that exists. The size and pedigree of this club, there is no way we should be accepting being this shit. Bumbling around in the third division year on year and giving spineless performances in the FA Cup (twice this season) 
    Appleton needs to make that abundantly clear. 
    I agree but disagree. The first thing to do is accept that we are shit then go about improving year by year to be less shit. The first way to go about this is to stop changing managers every season and do the business early in the summer transfer window.
    I love this analogy.  As we become less shit, or perhaps a no shit side, we will inevitably go through phases of being a shart side, and onwards and upwards to a skid mark team through the fart stages (both wet and dry), rumbling guts and finally……to the promised land of no shit.  My only concern is how long does that actually take?
    There is a problem with that. As you improve, players stand out and you lose them. So continuous improvement isn't a given. Will we have Dobbo or CBT next season? We need to see where we are short and try to sort it out this season. If we nick enough points in December, it is still possible. We need to think where the goals in the team are outside of May and CBT with Leaburn out. I want a centre half who is a threat offensively as well as decent defensively. Getting a corner is meaningless to us at the moment. I want a midfielder who can push towards 10.
    Yes, of course, we will lose our best players. We always have done. The key is to have proper organisation and decent scouting so that you have a replacement lined up. If we risk losing CBT for example then there should be a wide player ( or players) in a League 2 or National league team that we already have our eyes on.

    Losing players shouldn't be a concern. 
    Here are my simplified rules to gradual improvement:

    1. Employ a manager and keep hold of him regardless of bad form. Let him know he’s secure in his job. If he is secure, motivated and happy then this will filter down to the players and they will ultimately have more respect for him.
    Why can’t we aim to be the League One Arsenal? Do as they have done for the last 5-10 years. Don’t constantly change manager. Trust in what you saw in him to employ him in the first place. Have faith in your own recruitment.

    2. Tell the players (put in in their contracts even) that we reject the useless January transfer window except for loans to plug a gap caused by injury.
    We signed you in June or July and you can only leave in June or July. It’s a club rule, no arguments. 

    3. Have a style of play from the youth team upwards. This only works if you have a long term 1st team manager. 

    4. Have realistic aims and make these known to staff and fans. It may be hard to accept but it should run something like this:
    23/24 season: 10th -14 th position 
    24/25 season: 8th-12th position

    It may then take until 2030 to get automatic promotion but that’s better than our current whirlwind of nonsense and failure.
    Something people don't consider is that players outside the club will more likely join if they can see that we’re making gradual progression. At the moment we advertise sorrow and decline.
     
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